Union @ RPI, Wednesday 12/9/09

[Red Cloud]

Re: Union @ RPI, Wednesday 12/9/09

First of all, thank you for your service, RC. And I'm right there with you on the anthem stuff. It's an unwinnable argument to get people to stop shouting anything during the anthems, but I think we can all agree to leave "sucks" out of it.

Yeah, I figure that would be the place to start. Honestly, if people want to emphasize certain words... why not, you know? We can be mean and nasty to each other all game long, why do it during the anthems too?

Second, there was a pretty good game played last night, eh? Had the game ended at 59 minutes, I would have walked out of there satisfied that RPI deserved the win.

And honestly, they probably did up to that point. But they completely collapsed and, like I said, big ups to Union for capitalizing. There are a lot of teams out there that might have gotten the tying goal when the opposing team just stops playing, but you guys went for it all in regulation and got it. Valery-Trabucco is a BEAST, and he scores pretty goals, too (although that third goal kinda left me scratching my head. what an odd angle).

I'd also be annoyed at the stupid penalties Union took - especially by Lareau that gave RPI the go-ahead score.

The refs were incompetant on both sides. Phantom interference calls all night long, while letting the real thing go unabated.

I'm more convinced now that the players are starting to consider this a true rivalry. There was some intense play as the game wore on, though there wasn't too much post-whistle activity. I wasn't sure who initiated the scuffle at the end, but the Union players clearly were not happy with Kerins. Perhaps a penalty was deserved, but I don't know about the game DQ.

Honestly, Kerins got what he deserved. He was being a real jerk at the end, and it was frustration for sure. Hurts to say that since he's done such an outstanding job this year otherwise.

And there's no question the team sees a rivalry, even if a lot of us fans don't. That'll happen when you play each other as often as we do nowadays.

I think we're going to have a more intense battle on Jan 16th. Messa should be packed & ready for this one.

Given that the Engineers woke up in the last 15 seconds of the game and even almost managed to tie it up (like, oh, gee, there's still game left?), and given how embarrassing this loss has to be for them, there's no doubt that game will be even more intense. Should be another big invasion, too, as usual. I definitely can't say enough about Union's fans last night turning out well. They weren't as organized as RPI's group at Messa was, but they were in significant enough numbers to make themselves known. We'll have to try and return the favor.

 

[Wicked Slappaahs]

Re: Union @ RPI, Wednesday 12/9/09

First of all, thank you for your service, RC. And I'm right there with you on the anthem stuff. It's an unwinnable argument to get people to stop shouting anything during the anthems, but I think we can all agree to leave "sucks" out of it.

Second, there was a pretty good game played last night, eh? Had the game ended at 59 minutes, I would have walked out of there satisfied that RPI deserved the win. I thought they were the better team for the most part - certainly in the second period and most of the 3rd...outside of Trabucco's 2 shots that I'm pretty sure York heard, but never saw. I'd also be annoyed at the stupid penalties Union took - especially by Lareau that gave RPI the go-ahead score.

I'm more convinced now that the players are starting to consider this a true rivalry. There was some intense play as the game wore on, though there wasn't too much post-whistle activity. I wasn't sure who initiated the scuffle at the end, but the Union players clearly were not happy with Kerins. Perhaps a penalty was deserved, but I don't know about the game DQ.

I think we're going to have a more intense battle on Jan 16th. Messa should be packed & ready for this one.

It was certainly frustration over the loss and as someone said a culmination of 3 games worth of "interaction". I would note that Pirri and Boileau had a health "dialogue" running throughout the night, which continued after the final horn as well. If anything I think Kerins inadvertently may have delivered a much needed wake up call to his team that some passion is required to play the game at a high level...we certainly didn't have much passion for most of the 3rd. Credit U for pulling off the comeback. Hopefully we can return the favor n 1/16.

 

[GRussinko]

Re: Union @ RPI, Wednesday 12/9/09

Having had a chance to see the video of the end of the game, I see where the game DQ came from. Like aweise said, it's hard to tell who started it, but Kerins hooked his fingers in J. Simpson's facemask, shook his head back and forth and eventually tore the helmet right off his head and to the ice.

While the rulebook doesn't say anything about misconducts or disqualifications for the play (minor or major at ref's discretion), I don't know that throwing a minor, major, or a 10-minute misconduct on the board at 20:00 of the third is an appropriate punishment for a move like that. The game DQ is the only way to actually penalize Kerins for what is a stupid and potentially dangerous move.

 

[JCrawford]

Re: Union @ RPI, Wednesday 12/9/09

Having had a chance to see the video of the end of the game, I see where the game DQ came from. Like aweise said, it's hard to tell who started it, but Kerins hooked his fingers in J. Simpson's facemask, shook his head back and forth and eventually tore the helmet right off his head and to the ice.

While the rulebook doesn't say anything about misconducts or disqualifications for the play (minor or major at ref's discretion), I don't know that throwing a minor, major, or a 10-minute misconduct on the board at 20:00 of the third is an appropriate punishment for a move like that. The game DQ is the only way to actually penalize Kerins for what is a stupid and potentially dangerous move.

I agree. Had Kerins done that earlier in the game, the penalty could possibly have been a major and a game misconduct. Since it occurred right at the end of the game, the officials had little choice but to hand out a game DQ if they wanted to actually dish out punishment for the facemask. Simply calling a minor or major penalty for a move like that at the end of the game does little more than add to the player's penalty minute total.

 

[Wholin1]

Re: Union @ RPI, Wednesday 12/9/09

The anthem discussion had me thinking, why is it that it has to be played at sporting events? The fact that it precedes "games" with certain exceptions, like Memorial Day or the 4th of July, to me demeans its value and significance. I can't honestly remember the last time I've heard the anthem at a nonsporting event and maybe that's part of my concern. Just seems odd to me.

 

[slapschott]

Re: Union @ RPI, Wednesday 12/9/09

Regarding anthems, I only yell "Red" if I am at a home game around other people that commonly do it. For the most part I find it in bad taste, and this is coming from someone who has commonly performed the song both vocally and instrumentally (vocally not at college, but elsewhere; obviously I performed it with the pep band). Commonly I will sing along, either English or French depending upon how I feel that day and if they actually pllay that anthem. Yes I get weird looks from people around me, but it's still respecting the song and respective countries.

I think the Game DQ is because it was a scuffle at the end of the game for being ticked about losing. Yes, it's OK for the team to be ticked, but that doesn't mean you take it out on the winners. In the NHL (at least when the lockout ended, I don't know if it's still true), you receive a fine for fighting in the last 5 minutes of the game. I see the Game DQ as something very similar, except that since NCAA players are not paid, their punishment comes in the form of ice time.

But yea, so it's 1-2 now. January 16th is when we attempt to get our revenge. Until then, continue to play well when you don't play RPI.

Ripping the facemask off got him the major and DQ. Had it stayed on, it would only have been a minor penalty.

 

[Wicked Slappaahs]

Re: Union @ RPI, Wednesday 12/9/09

Ripping the facemask off got him the major and DQ. Had it stayed on, it would only have been a minor penalty.

So he gets a game DQ 'cause Simpson's chinstrap was loose?

 

[Red Cloud]

Re: Union @ RPI, Wednesday 12/9/09

The anthem discussion had me thinking, why is it that it has to be played at sporting events? The fact that it precedes "games" with certain exceptions, like Memorial Day or the 4th of July, to me demeans its value and significance. I can't honestly remember the last time I've heard the anthem at a nonsporting event and maybe that's part of my concern. Just seems odd to me.

It's tradition at this point, but it's also a display of respect.

From 2003:

It is generally accepted that its first appearance during a sporting event was the 1918 World Series. To demonstrate major league patriotism, baseball teams had the players march in formation during pre-game military drills while carrying bats on their shoulders. During the seventh-inning stretch of game one, when the band spontaneously began to play the "Star Spangled Banner," the Cubs and Red Sox players stood at attention facing the centerfield flag pole. The crowd sang along and applauded when the singing ended.

Given this reaction in Chicago, the "Star Spangled Banner" was played during the seventh-inning stretch for the next two games. When the Series moved to Boston, the great theatrical Red Sox owner Harry Frazee pumped up the show biz: He brought in a band, and the song was played before the start of each game.

When the war ended, the song continued to be played, but only on special occasions when a band was present — such as opening day, special holidays or the World Series. On opening day in Washington, D.C., it was played before the president of the United States, and local politicians in other cities learned to participate in the events.

The "Star Spangled Banner" was finally declared the official national anthem in 1931. Even though by 1934 some ballparks had public address systems, it still was not played at every game. The coming of war in the late 1930s changed all of that. During the 1939-40 National Hockey League season, the Canadian anthem was played at games in Canadian cities as Canada was already at war. Then the practice spread to Madison Square Garden and from there it was transferred from hockey to baseball.

In 1940, with the fighting underway in earnest and America becoming more conscious of the possibility of war, there was increased talk of the need to hear the national anthem before all baseball games. This was suggested by The Sporting News in June, while at the same time the president of the International League called for the anthem to be played in U.S. league cities, as was already being done in Canadian cities. By 1941, the practice of playing the anthem before sporting events had achieved nearly universal status. At some games the pledge of allegiance was added, and, by 1941, "I Am an American Day" became a feature at major league parks.

It would be nice to say that all of this was due to pure patriotic expression, but of course much of it was created by PR-conscious owners who wanted to make sure that no one would question the patriotism of athletes who played games during World War II while others went off to serve their country. Four years of war, followed by the Cold War and the emergence of the American Empire, solidified the practice and made it into a national ritual.

In recent years, the national anthem has lost its patriotic air in most sports venues. It has become an occasion for entertainers to display their talents or lack thereof, fans to create new cheers, and the networks to run commercials. Its symbolic significance has been overshadowed by commercial purposes and public indifference, but it can still rattle the
cages when someone uses it as an occasion for protest.

Whether the practice should continue is doubtful as sporting events have little inherent relationship to patriotism. To try to change this custom in the middle of war fever would, of course, be impossible.

 

[SlyFoxMan7]

Re: Union @ RPI, Wednesday 12/9/09

The anthem discussion had me thinking, why is it that it has to be played at sporting events? The fact that it precedes "games" with certain exceptions, like Memorial Day or the 4th of July, to me demeans its value and significance. I can't honestly remember the last time I've heard the anthem at a nonsporting event and maybe that's part of my concern. Just seems odd to me.

Agreed. The national anthem at a sporting event is silly and unnecessary. Most other countries don't do it

 

[Wholin1]

Re: Union @ RPI, Wednesday 12/9/09

It's tradition at this point, but it's also a display of respect.

From 2003:

I can certainly agree that it at least should be a display of respect, but unfortunately boorish behavior has demeaned it which is wrong on every level.

 

[Red Cloud]

Re: Union @ RPI, Wednesday 12/9/09

Agreed. The national anthem at a sporting event is silly and unnecessary. Most other countries don't do it

Unnecessary? Perhaps.

Silly? (facepalm)

 

[jmhusker]

Re: Union @ RPI, Wednesday 12/9/09

Agreed. The national anthem at a sporting event is silly and unnecessary. Most other countries don't do it

Ah but is does allow you to see the dolts who don't know the difference between the Anthem and the Pledge put their hand over their heart! Some even do it for Oh Canada!

 

[SlyFoxMan7]

Re: Union @ RPI, Wednesday 12/9/09

Ah but is does allow you to see the dolts who don't know the difference between the Anthem and the Pledge put their hand over their heart! Some even do it for Oh Canada!

Ha yes and I actually love the Canadian national anthem. It's a much better melody.

 

[Red Cloud]

Re: Union @ RPI, Wednesday 12/9/09

Ah but is does allow you to see the dolts who don't know the difference between the Anthem and the Pledge put their hand over their heart! Some even do it for Oh Canada!

Know what you're talking about before you speak, kids.

The Salute
To salute, all persons come to attention. Those in uniform give the appropriate formal salute. Citizens not in uniform salute by placing their right hand over the heart and men with head cover should remove it and hold it to left shoulder, hand over the heart. Members of organizations in formation salute upon command of the person in charge.

The Pledge of Allegiance and National Anthem
The pledge of allegiance should be rendered by standing at attention, facing the flag, and saluting.
When the national anthem is played or sung, citizens should stand at attention and salute at the first note and hold the salute through the last note. The salute is directed to the flag, if displayed, otherwise to the music.

Fail.

I do see a lot of people putting their cover over their heart when they salute. I'm always sure to place it on my shoulder.

 

[Beman]

Re: Union @ RPI, Wednesday 12/9/09

When Americans and or Canadians come together to compete in a sporting event I don't see it as silly that we pay respect to our flags. Especially when we are fighting a war. It is good to take time and think about the young people that are making the ultimate sacrifice.
Just watch the greatest announcer of all time use his place in front of the camera pay his respects to fallen Canadien soldiers. Don Cherry never misses the chance to let us know how lucky we are to have brave people out there to protect our sorry asses.
So take your stupid hat off and think about it

RED!!!

 

[SlyFoxMan7]

Re: Union @ RPI, Wednesday 12/9/09

When Americans and or Canadians come together to compete in a sporting event I don't see it as silly that we pay respect to our flags. Especially when we are fighting a war. It is good to take time and think about the young people that are making the ultimate sacrifice.
Just watch the greatest announcer of all time use his place in front of the camera pay his respects to fallen Canadien soldiers. Don Cherry never misses the chance to let us know how lucky we are to have brave people out there to protect our sorry asses.
So take your stupid hat off and think about it

RED!!!

I don't come to hockey games to think about wars. I come to hockey games specifically to not think about wars (except for the one on the ice). If they want to make a special event only on veterans day and memorial day that makes sense and would be more meaningful. It's not needed at every game though.

 

[Wicked Slappaahs]

Re: Union @ RPI, Wednesday 12/9/09

I don't come to hockey games to think about wars. I come to hockey games specifically to not think about wars (except for the one on the ice). If they want to make a special event only on veterans day and memorial day that makes sense and would be more meaningful. It's not needed at every game though.

We'd be happy to send you a one way ticket to North Korea, or Iran if you prefer, if the anthem irks you that much.

 

[Red Cloud]

Re: Union @ RPI, Wednesday 12/9/09

I don't come to hockey games to think about wars. I come to hockey games specifically to not think about wars (except for the one on the ice). If they want to make a special event only on veterans day and memorial day that makes sense and would be more meaningful. It's not needed at every game though.

Yeah, I know, it's really a drag have to ever think about those who made the ultimate sacrifice so that you have the freedom to take in a hockey game whenever you feel like it.

You're probably one of the many mouthbreathers who show up after the opening faceoff anyway, standing there staring at your ticket in the aisle while everyone who bothered to show up on time tries to look around you to see the game. So what do you care?

 

[Wicked Slappaahs]

Re: Union @ RPI, Wednesday 12/9/09

Yeah, I know, it's really a drag have to ever think about those who made the ultimate sacrifice so that you have the freedom to take in a hockey game whenever you feel like it.

You're probably one of the many mouthbreathers who show up after the opening faceoff anyway, standing there drooling on your ticket in the aisle while everyone who bothered to show up on time tries to look around you to see the game. So what do you care?

FYP.

 

[Beman]

Re: Union @ RPI, Wednesday 12/9/09

I don't come to hockey games to think about wars. I come to hockey games specifically to not think about wars (except for the one on the ice). If they want to make a special event only on veterans day and memorial day that makes sense and would be more meaningful. It's not needed at every game though.

That is the point you idiot.... Take the couple minutes out of your so important life to think about it.