UNH Wildcats Official Wait til Next Year...14/15 thread

[Snively65]

Re: UNH Wildcats Official Wait til Next Year...14/15 thread

I don't want to bog this thread down with minutia about the 2001 team. I was merely trying to address Scott's question and to make a broader point. I apparently failed to do.

However....

To set the record straight: Patrick Foley didn't cost Steve Saviano a single minute of ice time during 2000-2001, which was Saviano's freshman year. That was the season that Foley red shirted due to injury.

Now carry on about the bigger picture...it is far more interesting.

True, but I think that the broader point was that Saviano was a coach's decision to sit on the bench about half the games his first year, when several mediocre seniors played in nearly every game, as did freshman Nathan Marts. But, no comparison to this year, as the sophomores and juniors carried the bulk of the offensive load in 2000-2001 and gave us great expectations for the next couple of years.

 

[Snively65]

Re: UNH Wildcats Official Wait til Next Year...14/15 thread

Snively am not the one to do the Math you are seeking (sorry) but of course GDowning's numbers come to mind initially prob will account for at least 50% at first glance.

Coach U noted from the start that replacing last year's scoring (partic from the big line of G,S, and Willows not to mention contributions from the Blue line namely Knodel and TvR before his injury) was going to be very difficult!

Speculation ran high early on that it would come (have to come ) from various sources and I guess it has ...with some of the Frosh like Portularalski, Marks and Furgele potting a few. And of course Tyler K has decent numbers.
Think we are still looking for more offense from Foegele and Eiserman .

Close, as Downing, Willows, Thrush (and Pesce) account for 28 (30) goals, so about 42% (or about 44%) of the 67 total so far this season.

And, Knodel, Agosta, and TvR scored 17 goals last season, not to mention their 60 assists (three of top six in points), so that was a lot of O to replace.

This coming weekend was the one that gave me hope for the stretch drive last season, as Notre Dame was (over)ranked at the time.

 

[skyraider0609]

Re: UNH Wildcats Official Wait til Next Year...14/15 thread

Good point ref on #2. Why WOULD Umile want to retire ? He's making a bundle of money doing something he loves to do and by most stretches of the imagination has been successful at doing it. His teams most years have been highly competitive and his program appears to be clean yet for that minor emailing snafu. Seriously, how can an athletic director in his right mind push him out the door when he's had maybe a handful of bad seasons in his entire career? I just don't see it happening. I realize some fans of the team want instant success probably beyond that which Umile has been able to deliver, but as the old saying goes "be careful what you wish for" , you just might get something less, a lot less. Umile bleeds UNH, seems like if he wants to coach till his next health problem, he's deserved the opportunity.

Are you kidding me? The man has been behind the UNH bench since 1990. I guess we have different yardsticks for what makes a "successful" season. Two HE titles and two trips to the FF in 14 years. If you're happy with that, then more power to ya. If this were the "Alabama Huntsville wait til next year thread" I'd be ecstatic too, but it's not and I'm not. I've never gone into a season hoping that if UNH wins the HE regular season title then it's a great year. Nope. I've seen all the NCAA tourney appearances since the very early 2000s and almost every one of them have ended with a flat farting sound as the Cats wilted with a big game on the line. Sorry, but I put that on the man behind the bench. I know winning the FF is not easy. I get that. But as I say, I've seen it happen way too many times: UNH on the ropes in a big game and Dick is standing arms crossed, scowling behind the bench while the opposing coach is encouraging, amped and coaching his kids. People on this thread know what I'm talking about.

I agree, Dick Umile is not retiring this season or even in the near future I don't think. It's what it is. But, when he does walk, I would hope the next coach is a young, energetic spark plug. I don't care if he's a D1 head coach or assistant or a D3 guy or even Andy Brickley for that matter. Just find some new blood and new energy....

The way things are headed, the football program will bump hockey as the University's flagship program I think. With the new Cowell on the horizon and a program that's in an ascending phase, hockey, while never irrelevant, might become less relevant if the program continues to founder.

 

[NCAA watcher]

Re: UNH Wildcats Official Wait til Next Year...14/15 thread

Sky, Dick has been successful, I don't think anyone can debate that or take it from him.

I also agree with the notion "be careful what you wish for." It is a great concern anytime there is a change from a venerable hand to another. While I have great hopes for the next coach, and think the situation is a great one to succeed, nothing is guaranteed.

That said, there has to be a transition in the next 3 years, and I think the team has stagnated and will remain stagnant until the next move. Therefore, we certainly can have a better team next year, and even the year after that, as the core of the team, the 10 member freshman class, gains experience. I'd expect him to ride out that growth, perhaps saying farewell as they culminate their achievements that senior year.

 

[HockeyRef]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2014/2015 - Next Year Can't Get Here Fast Enough!!!

Re: UNH Wildcats 2014/2015 - Next Year Can't Get Here Fast Enough!!!

Annnnddd the UNH bball team wins their fourth straight over...Maine! Good for them...after their abysmal season last year happy to see them pulling down some W's...

 

[HockeyRef]

Re: UNH Wildcats Official Wait til Next Year...14/15 thread

UNH Insider reports that Brett Pesce will be back with the 'Cats this weekend...woot!

http://www.unionleader.com/article/20150129/SPORTS1601/150128926/1003/sports

 

[Greg A]

Re: UNH Wildcats Official Wait til Next Year...14/15 thread

Are you kidding me? The man has been behind the UNH bench since 1990. I guess we have different yardsticks for what makes a "successful" season. Two HE titles and two trips to the FF in 14 years. If you're happy with that, then more power to ya. If this were the "Alabama Huntsville wait til next year thread" I'd be ecstatic too, but it's not and I'm not. I've never gone into a season hoping that if UNH wins the HE regular season title then it's a great year. Nope. I've seen all the NCAA tourney appearances since the very early 2000s and almost every one of them have ended with a flat farting sound as the Cats wilted with a big game on the line. Sorry, but I put that on the man behind the bench. I know winning the FF is not easy. I get that. But as I say, I've seen it happen way too many times: UNH on the ropes in a big game and Dick is standing arms crossed, scowling behind the bench while the opposing coach is encouraging, amped and coaching his kids. People on this thread know what I'm talking about.

I agree, Dick Umile is not retiring this season or even in the near future I don't think. It's what it is. But, when he does walk, I would hope the next coach is a young, energetic spark plug. I don't care if he's a D1 head coach or assistant or a D3 guy or even Andy Brickley for that matter. Just find some new blood and new energy....

The way things are headed, the football program will bump hockey as the University's flagship program I think. With the new Cowell on the horizon and a program that's in an ascending phase, hockey, while never irrelevant, might become less relevant if the program continues to founder.

So how would you compare Umile to Parker? After losing to North Dakota in the 1997 final, BU made one more FF in his last 16 years as coach. Yes, he won it (barely), but his track record during that time was much worse than Umile's. You ask any UNH fan today what they would want out of UNH Hockey and I would say that the vast majority of them would take a team that finishes in the top four in Hockey East, wins its quarterfinal round at home, makes it to the Garden and the NCAA tournament. That prescription was the norm for UNH Hockey from 1992 until a couple of years ago. Guys like you, who screamed bloody murder that Umile had to go because he couldn't win the big one should be wondering now how foolish those pronouncements were. Umile won a lot of "big ones" in order to play for the biggest ones. A small example for me is when UNH beat Miami in Manchester a few years ago. Miami was on the very short list to when the NC that year but the UNH coaching staff devised a defensive game plan that held Miami to one goal. I'll always remember the look on Blasi's face when he walked off the ice after the game. He looked like he just attended his mother's funeral.

Of course, all that is reminiscing now as UNH is as far away from the NCAA tournament as it can be, never mind upsetting a top level opponent. For this I do blame Umile. I mentioned the other day that the last outstanding class UNH had was 2008 when Radja, Fornataro, Flashians and Regan were seniors. They had entered UNH in the fall of 2004 and no doubt had committed a couple of years before then. When you think back, how could they not. UNH had just come off back-to-back HE championships and trips to the FF. It looked like success would continue forever. Borek and Lassonde rode that wave for as long as they could however each year the crop of recruits was of lesser quality than than the year before. IMO a recruiter has to have two things on his resume, the ability to separate the talented from the average, and the ability to sell the program to that more talented player. It is apparent now that Umile's assistants failed to do that and that's why UNH is in the state that it is now. Despite the failure of the assistants to do their job Umile continues to hang on to the one with the longest tenure.

You mentioned the success of the football team which, I believe now surpasses the hockey team as the school's #1 athletic program. McDonnell has had remarkable success over the last 10 years or so but, before then, there was grumbling that he was on the hot seat because of his inability to get the team into the playoffs. So what did he do to turn things around? I'm not very good on football time lines but, if memory serves, wasn't it about that time that Chip Kelly was brought on board? It was his offense that unleashed Ricky Santos on the 1AA football world and, from then until now, put UNH on the football map. If UNH Hockey is going to change for the better, Umile might be wise to follow the McDonnell playbook.

 

[NCAA watcher]

Re: UNH Wildcats Official Wait til Next Year...14/15 thread

So what did he do to turn things around? I'm not very good on football time lines but, if memory serves, wasn't it about that time that Chip Kelly was brought on board? It was his offense that unleashed Ricky Santos on the 1AA football world and, from then until now, put UNH on the football map. If UNH Hockey is going to change for the better, Umile might be wise to follow the McDonnell playbook.

You mean Umile who had that opportunity in 2011 when Lassonde's spot opened up, and he used that opening as a chance to bring in an even older assistant? I gave up the ghost then. Face it, there will be no surprises for the next three years. We know who we have, we know it will be solid, workmanlike, and hopefully Stewart can get a couple of young kids like Farabe and some BC midget players to stock the cupboard for his successor.

 

[The Zlax45]

So how would you compare Umile to Parker? After losing to North Dakota in the 1997 final, BU made one more FF in his last 16 years as coach. Yes, he won it (barely), but his track record during that time was much worse than Umile's. You ask any UNH fan today what they would want out of UNH Hockey and I would say that the vast majority of them would take a team that finishes in the top four in Hockey East, wins its quarterfinal round at home, makes it to the Garden and the NCAA tournament. That prescription was the norm for UNH Hockey from 1992 until a couple of years ago. Guys like you, who screamed bloody murder that Umile had to go because he couldn't win the big one should be wondering now how foolish those pronouncements were. Umile won a lot of "big ones" in order to play for the biggest ones. A small example for me is when UNH beat Miami in Manchester a few years ago. Miami was on the very short list to when the NC that year but the UNH coaching staff devised a defensive game plan that held Miami to one goal. I'll always remember the look on Blasi's face when he walked off the ice after the game. He looked like he just attended his mother's funeral.

Of course, all that is reminiscing now as UNH is as far away from the NCAA tournament as it can be, never mind upsetting a top level opponent. For this I do blame Umile. I mentioned the other day that the last outstanding class UNH had was 2008 when Radja, Fornataro, Flashians and Regan were seniors. They had entered UNH in the fall of 2004 and no doubt had committed a couple of years before then. When you think back, how could they not. UNH had just come off back-to-back HE championships and trips to the FF. It looked like success would continue forever. Borek and Lassonde rode that wave for as long as they could however each year the crop of recruits was of lesser quality than than the year before. IMO a recruiter has to have two things on his resume, the ability to separate the talented from the average, and the ability to sell the program to that more talented player. It is apparent now that Umile's assistants failed to do that and that's why UNH is in the state that it is now. Despite the failure of the assistants to do their job Umile continues to hang on to the one with the longest tenure.

You mentioned the success of the football team which, I believe now surpasses the hockey team as the school's #1 athletic program. McDonnell has had remarkable success over the last 10 years or so but, before then, there was grumbling that he was on the hot seat because of his inability to get the team into the playoffs. So what did he do to turn things around? I'm not very good on football time lines but, if memory serves, wasn't it about that time that Chip Kelly was brought on board? It was his offense that unleashed Ricky Santos on the 1AA football world and, from then until now, put UNH on the football map. If UNH Hockey is going to change for the better, Umile might be wise to follow the McDonnell playbook.

Coach Mc wasn't winning with Kelly on his staff before Santos...

 

[Snively65]

Re: UNH Wildcats Official Wait til Next Year...14/15 thread

You mean Umile who had that opportunity in 2011 when Lassonde's spot opened up, and he used that opening as a chance to bring in an even older assistant? I gave up the ghost then. Face it, there will be no surprises for the next three years. We know who we have, we know it will be solid, workmanlike, and hopefully Stewart can get a couple of young kids like Farabe and some BC midget players to stock the cupboard for his successor.

But, Nick Nonis is 6'3" 195#?

 

[skyraider0609]

Re: UNH Wildcats Official Wait til Next Year...14/15 thread

So how would you compare Umile to Parker? After losing to North Dakota in the 1997 final, BU made one more FF in his last 16 years as coach. Yes, he won it (barely), but his track record during that time was much worse than Umile's. You ask any UNH fan today what they would want out of UNH Hockey and I would say that the vast majority of them would take a team that finishes in the top four in Hockey East, wins its quarterfinal round at home, makes it to the Garden and the NCAA tournament. That prescription was the norm for UNH Hockey from 1992 until a couple of years ago. Guys like you, who screamed bloody murder that Umile had to go because he couldn't win the big one should be wondering now how foolish those pronouncements were. Umile won a lot of "big ones" in order to play for the biggest ones. A small example for me is when UNH beat Miami in Manchester a few years ago. Miami was on the very short list to when the NC that year but the UNH coaching staff devised a defensive game plan that held Miami to one goal. I'll always remember the look on Blasi's face when he walked off the ice after the game. He looked like he just attended his mother's funeral.

Of course, all that is reminiscing now as UNH is as far away from the NCAA tournament as it can be, never mind upsetting a top level opponent. For this I do blame Umile. I mentioned the other day that the last outstanding class UNH had was 2008 when Radja, Fornataro, Flashians and Regan were seniors. They had entered UNH in the fall of 2004 and no doubt had committed a couple of years before then. When you think back, how could they not. UNH had just come off back-to-back HE championships and trips to the FF. It looked like success would continue forever. Borek and Lassonde rode that wave for as long as they could however each year the crop of recruits was of lesser quality than than the year before. IMO a recruiter has to have two things on his resume, the ability to separate the talented from the average, and the ability to sell the program to that more talented player. It is apparent now that Umile's assistants failed to do that and that's why UNH is in the state that it is now. Despite the failure of the assistants to do their job Umile continues to hang on to the one with the longest tenure.

You mentioned the success of the football team which, I believe now surpasses the hockey team as the school's #1 athletic program. McDonnell has had remarkable success over the last 10 years or so but, before then, there was grumbling that he was on the hot seat because of his inability to get the team into the playoffs. So what did he do to turn things around? I'm not very good on football time lines but, if memory serves, wasn't it about that time that Chip Kelly was brought on board? It was his offense that unleashed Ricky Santos on the 1AA football world and, from then until now, put UNH on the football map. If UNH Hockey is going to change for the better, Umile might be wise to follow the McDonnell playbook.

Well, by my count, Jack Parker took the Terriers to six NC games and won three of them, so I don't think there's any comparison to be made between Jackie and Dickie.

As I said Greg, if UNH fills those squares you mentioned and you're happy with that, then good on ya. I guess I'm an outlier though as in my opinion, until this program hoists the NC trophy, it's just a season unfulfilled. YMMV

 

[HockeyRef]

Re: UNH Wildcats Official Wait til Next Year...14/15 thread

Well, by my count, Jack Parker took the Terriers to six NC games and won three of them, so I don't think there's any comparison to be made between Jackie and Dickie.

As I said Greg, if UNH fills those squares you mentioned and you're happy with that, then good on ya. I guess I'm an outlier though as in my opinion, until this program hoists the NC trophy, it's just a season unfulfilled. YMMV

Feel the same way 'bout football? Just kiddin'. Most likely football is closer to that than hockey right now. Emphasis on now. This thread isn't about the football program but you can make analogies to their rise to success, especially in most recent seasons. Seriously/obviously it would that be great to win the NC...oh how close UNH has come and how much it must've hurt to have missed it. Thinking you don't have to be a BU/BC or Minny to do it. Ask Yale, and Union... At the beginning of the season, UNH has two goals in mind: Win HE, Win NC. That's what I heard at a UNH Alumni gathering that featured Coach U. He said that doesn't change from year to year. Seems lofty right now, eh? Funny I compare the UNH hockey program to the Red Sox...took awhile, but it happened. Hopefully we don't have to wait for 86 years tho! And you guys are the ones that I will think of first when we do it. Go 'Cats!!

 

[skyraider0609]

Re: UNH Wildcats Official Wait til Next Year...14/15 thread

Feel the same way 'bout football? Just kiddin'. Most likely football is closer to that than hockey right now. Emphasis on now. This thread isn't about the football program but you can make analogies to their rise to success, especially in most recent seasons. Seriously/obviously it would that be great to win the NC...oh how close UNH has come and how much it must've hurt to have missed it. Thinking you don't have to be a BU/BC or Minny to do it. Ask Yale, and Union... At the beginning of the season, UNH has two goals in mind: Win HE, Win NC. That's what I heard at a UNH Alumni gathering that featured Coach U. He said that doesn't change from year to year. Seems lofty right now, eh? Funny I compare the UNH hockey program to the Red Sox...took awhile, but it happened. Hopefully we don't have to wait for 86 years tho! And you guys are the ones that I will think of first when we do it. Go 'Cats!!

Yeah Ref, to answer your question, pretty much. I think UNH football has risen to the point that if they don't atleast make it to Frisco then the season has fallen short. I felt that way this year. The team would echo that I'm sure.

I also agree that if the Sox could do it, then maybe the hockey and football teams do as well someday. Football, I think is right there, hockey, well, don't wait up....

 

[Felger]

Re: UNH Wildcats Official Wait til Next Year...14/15 thread

ND without its top scorer this weekend.

 

[Snively65]

Re: UNH Wildcats Official Wait til Next Year...14/15 thread

That's what I heard at a UNH Alumni gathering that featured Coach U. He said that doesn't change from year to year. Seems lofty right now, eh? Funny I compare the UNH hockey program to the Red Sox...took awhile, but it happened. Hopefully we don't have to wait for 86 years tho! And you guys are the ones that I will think of first when we do it. Go 'Cats!!

I have posted this story on previous threads, Ref. But, just for you, I bought my ticket for the 2003 FF in Buffalo from a Michigan State fan, who told me after Vanek put that game out of reach that the Cats would win a NC when the Red Sox win a WS, which of course they did the following year. Rick Comley did not have a NC at Michigan State at that point, but got one in 2007, when sophomore Jeff Lerg started every game for a 25-13-3 record (the same Lerg who beat UNH 1-0 in the Albany regional the year before).

Yeah, I am sure that Umile says that every year, but not just Hockey East, but Hockey East regular season, where we have had more success, AND Hockey East tournament, not so much.

So, Pesce back and NDs best scorer out for this weekend; perhaps we will be pleasantly surprised come late Saturday night, like last year.

 

[Greg A]

Re: UNH Wildcats Official Wait til Next Year...14/15 thread

You mean Umile who had that opportunity in 2011 when Lassonde's spot opened up, and he used that opening as a chance to bring in an even older assistant? I gave up the ghost then. Face it, there will be no surprises for the next three years. We know who we have, we know it will be solid, workmanlike, and hopefully Stewart can get a couple of young kids like Farabe and some BC midget players to stock the cupboard for his successor.

I'm with you on that. However back then I heard a lot of drums beating for Josh Ciocco (not sure if you were included). Based on his pronouncements that CHC resurrected the other day, not sure if he would have been the ideal candidate. Putting that aside, I am a great believer in how a coach can establish a culture of winning in a program. I believe that Umile did that in spades from the moment he took over the job. Yes, there were a couple of sub par classes early on and, yes, he benefited from having McCloskey as his recruiter, but he was the face of the franchise for more than a decade that resulted in the success and buzz that we now crave for. I don't know what happened post-Lassonde because I walked away from my heavy involvement with the program at that time, but I was taken aback when Tortorella was the choice to replace him. Dave was not everybody's cup of tea, I recognize that, but he was a valuable contributor to the success of UNH for several years, particularly on the defensive side of the ice. Not only the goalies, but UNH was up there in penalty kill and goals against for several years, a lot of which were the results of Lassonde's contributions. Not only did they lose him, but they replaced him (and this is no disrespect to the man as an individual) with "blah." Nothing was added when Tortorella came in. I'll give Umile the benefit of the doubt and say that he recognized his mistake, or maybe Tortorella recognized it for him, and made a change. Tougher nut, apparently, to crack with Borek, and I hold out no hope, but it should be done.

 

[Greg A]

Re: UNH Wildcats Official Wait til Next Year...14/15 thread

Well, by my count, Jack Parker took the Terriers to six NC games and won three of them, so I don't think there's any comparison to be made between Jackie and Dickie.

As I said Greg, if UNH fills those squares you mentioned and you're happy with that, then good on ya. I guess I'm an outlier though as in my opinion, until this program hoists the NC trophy, it's just a season unfulfilled. YMMV

The challenge was to compare the coaches post -1997. If one NCAA championship surrounded by a decade and half of mediocrity is okay with you, then I would imagine being a Lake State fan would be okay as well.

 

[Greg A]

Re: UNH Wildcats Official Wait til Next Year...14/15 thread

Coach Mc wasn't winning with Kelly on his staff before Santos...

I told you that my football timelines weren't very good. Perhaps yours are and you can pinpoint for me why things changed. I remember vividly going to a game vs. Villanova in the early aughts. Beautiful fall day, tailgating was fantastic, and UNH got their socks blown off. They couldn't defend and they couldn't score. What changed and, more importantly, why? Don't get me wrong, I love UNH's success in football, but there had to be concrete reasons why things changed. Maybe Kelly was given more of a role in devising an offense, maybe they were getting better players, I have no idea. But whatever it was, it's a script that hockey should follow, and right now.

 

[e.cat]

Re: UNH Wildcats Official Wait til Next Year...14/15 thread

I'm with you on that. However back then I heard a lot of drums beating for Josh Ciocco (not sure if you were included). Based on his pronouncements that CHC resurrected the other day, not sure if he would have been the ideal candidate. Putting that aside, I am a great believer in how a coach can establish a culture of winning in a program. I believe that Umile did that in spades from the moment he took over the job. Yes, there were a couple of sub par classes early on and, yes, he benefited from having McCloskey as his recruiter, but he was the face of the franchise for more than a decade that resulted in the success and buzz that we now crave for. I don't know what happened post-Lassonde because I walked away from my heavy involvement with the program at that time, but I was taken aback when Tortorella was the choice to replace him. Dave was not everybody's cup of tea, I recognize that, but he was a valuable contributor to the success of UNH for several years, particularly on the defensive side of the ice. Not only the goalies, but UNH was up there in penalty kill and goals against for several years, a lot of which were the results of Lassonde's contributions. Not only did they lose him, but they replaced him (and this is no disrespect to the man as an individual) with "blah." Nothing was added when Tortorella came in. I'll give Umile the benefit of the doubt and say that he recognized his mistake, or maybe Tortorella recognized it for him, and made a change. Tougher nut, apparently, to crack with Borek, and I hold out no hope, but it should be done.

Canning Borek at this point strikes me as a desparate move. I realize desparate times call for desparate actions but I think this is misguided. I agree that Torts wasn't the answer and had to go but that is a bit different situation. The buck stops with Umile! I have been a Umile supporter but even I admit the time has come for a change at the top!! Is replacing Borek now really going to make that much of a difference considering the fact that Umile's days are numbered anyway?

 

[C-H-C]

Re: UNH Wildcats Official Wait til Next Year...14/15 thread

Coach Jim Tortorella joined UNH in the late summer of 2011. He was instrumental in recruiting a number of players who will be very good players for UNH (e.g., Marks, Chanter, Joseph Masonius, Brendan van Riemsdyk, Ara Nazarian, Marcus Vela). He almost single-handedly discovered Warren Foegele in a somewhat obscure Ontario prep school league. UNH defensemen who have turned pro in recent years continue to keep in touch with him.

Tortorella didn't "have to go" anywhere. He chose to pursue a new career in Maine, where he's lived much of his life, with a private, substance abuse agency. He had an offer in that field the year before he left UNH but he chose to stay another year. One of the winningest coaches in Division III hockey at Colby College (230-138-33) would be coaching somewhere in college hockey if that's what he chose to do.