UNH Wildcats Official Wait til Next Year...14/15 thread

[wildcatdc]

Re: UNH Wildcats Official Wait til Next Year...14/15 thread

There is still a spark that surrounds UNH hockey (e.g. the rejuvenated student section) and enough new fans seem to be helping to keep that spark alive. Although last night the radio announcers did allude to “the air having gone out of the building.” It is difficult to measure a quality of weariness that gradually comes to erode a fan base, but most of us know it when we experience it.

As some of you know, UNH hockey has been a large part of my spectator life for many years and I am grateful for the joy surrounding that association. The weariness and erosion of spirit experienced by a sports fan are minor compared to other struggles that life may deliver …. but that does not make them any less genuine.

Well said - particularly the last part. As a fan of nearly 30 years myself, I find it hard to believe we have reached such a place. And that's after having lived through four years on campus where only my senior year was salvaged (wow, in typing that, I think my academic performance was similar). In fact, I think only the two classes that preceded me suffered more in terms of their on-campus hockey experience over the last 50 years.

That stated, as frustrating as it gets, I still see every last game of even the worst of seasons as a chance to build for the future. Thus, there is always (IMHO), something to play for. Being a spoiler for one round in the HEA Tourney may not make everyone's socks go up and down, but for me, it would be a positive.

I understand the feelings that some have that we don't have the correct staff in place to develop or build for the future. I get that. But I remain hopeful. It is why I fully plan on being in attendance for the 'Mack series, even though we (depending on how you look at it) will have "nothing to play for", and even though I'm only stateside about 10% of my life these days. As a fan, it's important enough for me to make the time to sneak up to NH to do so - hopefully I can contribute to the "spark" those nights.... HockeyRef, bring an extra set of pom poms - I'm in.

Good luck to all through the impending snowstorm. Hope all are safe and sound.

 

[HockeyRef]

Well said - particularly the last part. As a fan of nearly 30 years myself, I find it hard to believe we have reached such a place. And that's after having lived through four years on campus where only my senior year was salvaged (wow, in typing that, I think my academic performance was similar). In fact, I think only the two classes that preceded me suffered more in terms of their on-campus hockey experience over the last 50 years.

That stated, as frustrating as it gets, I still see every last game of even the worst of seasons as a chance to build for the future. Thus, there is always (IMHO), something to play for. Being a spoiler for one round in the HEA Tourney may not make everyone's socks go up and down, but for me, it would be a positive.

I understand the feelings that some have that we don't have the correct staff in place to develop or build for the future. I get that. But I remain hopeful. It is why I fully plan on being in attendance for the 'Mack series, even though we (depending on how you look at it) will have "nothing to play for", and even though I'm only stateside about 10% of my life these days. As a fan, it's important enough for me to make the time to sneak up to NH to do so - hopefully I can contribute to the "spark" those nights.... HockeyRef, bring an extra set of pom poms - I'm in.

Good luck to all through the impending snowstorm. Hope all are safe and sound.

This. I understand the sentiments of many in this young thread; and I implore us to think of who matters the most and as elementary as it seems it's the players on the ice. I was going to start the new thread and name it "Through Thick and Thin" but thought better of it.

Sonar, Skyraider, Scott, Darius, Gregg, Chuck, the Snively boys C-H-C, wildcatdc and all the rest of you /us who have ever loved Wildcat hockey are desperately needed NOW more than ever. And that includes you e.cat!! Not to mention you lurkers on the board you know who you are...

That doesn't mean we can't be disappointed heck I'm still wondering what the hell happened this weekend myself . And wanting change for the right reasons is never a bad thing either!

But in the meantime if you could've seen those boys after that Maine loss your heart would've broke they felt it and care deeply about the success of this team. We owe it to them to hang in there and believe that this season hasn't been in vain.

There's still more hockey to be played and great moments left for our Seniors...that's....what keeps me in it. Sonar you are right there is still a spark at the 'Whitt and the team is very grateful for the support. I'm all in...as if I ever left ! But when I go if I ever do I'm takin' my Pom Poms with me !

 

[all bear]

This. I understand the sentiments of many in this young thread; and I implore us to think of who matters the most and as elementary as it seems it's the players on the ice. I was going to start the new thread and name it "Through Thick and Thin" but thought better of it.

Sonar, Skyraider, Scott, Darius, Gregg, Chuck, the Snively boys C-H-C, wildcatdc and all the rest of you /us who have ever loved Wildcat hockey are desperately needed NOW more than ever. And that includes you e.cat!! Not to mention you lurkers on the board you know who you are...

That doesn't mean we can't be disappointed heck I'm still wondering what the hell happened this weekend myself . And wanting change for the right reasons is never a bad thing either!

But in the meantime if you could've seen those boys after that Maine loss your heart would've broke they felt it and care deeply about the success of this team. We owe it to them to hang in there and believe that this season hasn't been in vain.

There's still more hockey to be played and great moments left for our Seniors...that's....what keeps me in it. Sonar you are right there is still a spark at the 'Whitt and the team is very grateful for the support. I'm all in...as if I ever left ! But when I go if I ever do I'm takin' my Pom Poms with me !

Hey, chin up neighbors. It's never as bad or as good as the moment you're in seems to be and this too shall pass. Believe me we've been there before. Before you know it you'll have some young stud behind the bench and the real border war will resurface in earnest

 

[Greg A]

Re: UNH Wildcats Official Wait til Next Year...14/15 thread

This. I understand the sentiments of many in this young thread; and I implore us to think of who matters the most and as elementary as it seems it's the players on the ice. I was going to start the new thread and name it "Through Thick and Thin" but thought better of it.

Sonar, Skyraider, Scott, Darius, Gregg, Chuck, the Snively boys �� C-H-C, wildcatdc and all the rest of you /us who have ever loved Wildcat hockey are desperately needed NOW more than ever. And that includes you e.cat!! Not to mention you lurkers on the board you know who you are...

That doesn't mean we can't be disappointed heck I'm still wondering what the hell happened this weekend myself ��. And wanting change for the right reasons is never a bad thing either!

But in the meantime if you could've seen those boys after that Maine loss your heart would've broke they felt it and care deeply about the success of this team. We owe it to them to hang in there and believe that this season hasn't been in vain.

There's still more hockey to be played and great moments left for our Seniors...that's....what keeps me in it. Sonar you are right there is still a spark at the 'Whitt and the team is very grateful for the support. I'm all in...as if I ever left ��! But when I go if I ever do I'm takin' my Pom Poms with me !

No offense to you but too much cheerleading for me. I don't necessarily blame the majority of the players, they can only do what they are capable of doing, no more. The bulk of the blame goes to the coaching staff who either made colossal mistakes year in and year out when recruiting or are unable to put these kids in a position where they can succeed. Division 1 hockey is a big boy sport, the schools, the coaches, the players, and the fans should take it seriously. A lot of money is spent supporting these programs and, frankly, UNH right now is not getting what they paid for. The thing that pains me the most, and it should disturb Marty S., is that the school is spending a boatload on the coaches, the recruiting, the travel, the rink, etc. and all they will have to show for it is probably their worst finish in 27 years. Instead of waving pom poms I think it is more important to hold those responsible for this debacle accountable. Of course, as a fan, I am really not in a position to demand accountability. But the AD is. This is what happened in 1987 and 1988 when Kullen was told to shape up or ship out. You know, he got the message. In his last season behind the bench UNH upset Providence in the quarterfinals and really should have beaten BC in the semis. Two years after that UNH was back in the NCAAs for the first time in 9 years. The bottom line is that holding people accountable for their job performance works. The question is whether we are going to see it here.

I want to add that I've been going to UNH games, home and away, on a consistent basis since the mid-70's. I can count on the fingers of one hand the number rinks in the east that UNH has played in that I have not been to. I will also tell you that for the first time in a long time, I have decided not to make the trek to Burlington for the two game series vs. UVM. My wife and I, and many of our friends, always enjoy the two day stay in Burlington with some good hockey as an added bonus. But I am facing facts that this year the hockey won't be very good so I've decided not to go. Mind you, I have already purchased tickets, the cost of which I am willing to eat rather than see the team go through the motions for two consecutive nights. BTW, if anyone wants the tickets (3 altogether), let me know.

 

[sonar]

Re: UNH Wildcats Official Wait til Next Year...14/15 thread

This. I understand the sentiments of many in this young thread; and I implore us to think of who matters the most and as elementary as it seems it's the players on the ice. I was going to start the new thread and name it "Through Thick and Thin" but thought better of it.

Sonar, Skyraider, Scott, Darius, Gregg, Chuck, the Snively boys �� C-H-C, wildcatdc and all the rest of you /us who have ever loved Wildcat hockey are desperately needed NOW more than ever. And that includes you e.cat!! Not to mention you lurkers on the board you know who you are...

That doesn't mean we can't be disappointed heck I'm still wondering what the hell happened this weekend myself ��. And wanting change for the right reasons is never a bad thing either!

But in the meantime if you could've seen those boys after that Maine loss your heart would've broke they felt it and care deeply about the success of this team. We owe it to them to hang in there and believe that this season hasn't been in vain.

There's still more hockey to be played and great moments left for our Seniors...that's....what keeps me in it. Sonar you are right there is still a spark at the 'Whitt and the team is very grateful for the support. I'm all in...as if I ever left ��! But when I go if I ever do I'm takin' my Pom Poms with me !

Sadly .... my sense is that the current spark is going to die out (including that great student section) in the next two months .... and what will remain is what all campfire gazers hate ... a smoldering fire that is about to go out.

Enough with the metaphors .... what we are watching is the end of UNH hockey as relevant on the national level.

 

[Darius]

Re: UNH Wildcats Official Wait til Next Year...14/15 thread

Sonar, Skyraider, Scott, Darius, Gregg, Chuck, the Snively boys �� C-H-C, wildcatdc and all the rest of you /us who have ever loved Wildcat hockey are desperately needed NOW more than ever. And that includes you e.cat!! Not to mention you lurkers on the board you know who you are...

I'm not going anywhere. Winning is great, but I am all about the experience. Saturday was a great day walking on campus, a little pre-gaming, chatting with friends, enjoying the student section and band and wrapping it up with a snowy walk back to the vehicle talking with a band member along the way. Did y'all know the marching band played in FL during break? A win would have been great, but a great Durham day none the less and... what Greg wrote.

I don't blame the players as people or for who they are as players. As long as they represent UNH well and are good citizens and students I am fine with them as individuals. Being criticized for how they and the team they are a part of plays comes with the turf. They came out flat and stayed that way on Saturday. They were probably more disappointed by that than I was. Actually they better have been because emotionally, strangely, it didn't bother me that much. Low expectations, I suppose. The difference is that there isn't anything I can do about it, there is something they can do about it. One can't become a pinpoint puck sniper overnight, but one can amp up the effort. The 'cats never got into the game enough to match Maine's intensity and, worse, devolved into a bunch of extraneous on ice BS that is not what UNH hockey is about. They should absolutely be criticized for that. Heck they didn't even do that well. Poturalski and especially Willows should have gone for it - opposing sweater over the head, gloves on the ice, fists flailing and a game misconduct/suspension would have livened up the venue and maybe the team as well. Just kidding. Mostly.

I've said before and will say again that I think Coach has earned the right to decide when he leaves and I still believe he will do the right thing at the right time. I do not think this is the time for him to step down. This year was a confluence of things that might have been overcome, but it looks like they won't be. Who knows, maybe we sweep the next four games? Stranger things have happened in HEA. Next year, assuming no unforeseen distractions and a foundation of experienced returning players, needs to be better.

 

[HockeyRef]

No offense to you but too much cheerleading for me. I don't necessarily blame the majority of the players, they can only do what they are capable of doing, no more. The bulk of the blame goes to the coaching staff who either made colossal mistakes year in and year out when recruiting or are unable to put these kids in a position where they can succeed. Division 1 hockey is a big boy sport, the schools, the coaches, the players, and the fans should take it seriously. A lot of money is spent supporting these programs and, frankly, UNH right now is not getting what they paid for. The thing that pains me the most, and it should disturb Marty S., is that the school is spending a boatload on the coaches, the recruiting, the travel, the rink, etc. and all they will have to show for it is probably their worst finish in 27 years. Instead of waving pom poms I think it is more important to hold those responsible for this debacle accountable. Of course, as a fan, I am really not in a position to demand accountability. But the AD is. This is what happened in 1987 and 1988 when Kullen was told to shape up or ship out. You know, he got the message. In his last season behind the bench UNH upset Providence in the quarterfinals and really should have beaten BC in the semis. Two years after that UNH was back in the NCAAs for the first time in 9 years. The bottom line is that holding people accountable for their job performance works. The question is whether we are going to see it here.

I want to add that I've been going to UNH games, home and away, on a consistent basis since the mid-70's. I can count on the fingers of one hand the number rinks in the east that UNH has played in that I have not been to. I will also tell you that for the first time in a long time, I have decided not to make the trek to Burlington for the two game series vs. UVM. My wife and I, and many of our friends, always enjoy the two day stay in Burlington with some good hockey as an added bonus. But I am facing facts that this year the hockey won't be very good so I've decided not to go. Mind you, I have already purchased tickets, the cost of which I am willing to eat rather than see the team go through the motions for two consecutive nights. BTW, if anyone wants the tickets (3 altogether), let me know.

Well hey Greg I get it... Sorry you can't find one relevant thing from my posts haha...I guess I really don't belong here anyway with so little UNH history. And I know your UNH story so I can't blame you for wanting success. Can't wait to go to UVM gonna be great!!!

Ps teams have bad years...ask the BU fans about that....

 

[NCAA watcher]

Re: UNH Wildcats Official Wait til Next Year...14/15 thread

This is what happened in 1987 and 1988 when Kullen was told to shape up or ship out. You know, he got the message. In his last season behind the bench UNH upset Providence in the quarterfinals and really should have beaten BC in the semis. Two years after that UNH was back in the NCAAs for the first time in 9 years. The bottom line is that holding people accountable for their job performance works.

I suspect that the change had little to do with Kullen being told to shape up or ship out. The program was already on the upswing with the new energy of the youthful coach. And, similar to this year, he brought in a bunch of freshmen defensemen trying to replace the 1985 crappy freshman D of Mike Roth, Kevin Schrader, Mark Babcock and Jeff Cournoyer that he swept out in 1987. (Of course, as noted below, Kullen replaced them with Plavsic, MacIntyre, Dean. Morrow and Trenovich, which is more than they are replacing this year). Like this year, he brought in two freshmen goalies, ironically, because one of the holdovers was arrested and thrown off the team.

That energy brought in 4 future NHL players, UNH's top 10 scorer and a bunch of all-hockey east, all-americans. As we've discussed before, that 1988 class was what Umile used to make the NCAAs in 1992.

1987
Matt Trenovich Brockton
Bill LaCouture Natick - NHL draft pick
Chris Thayer Kent Prep - NHL draft pick
Dave MacIntyre Lawrence Academy --- 10 Year minor league defender
Bruce MacDonald Loomis-Chaffee - NHL draft pick
Pat Morrison Colonel Grey
Kevin Dean Culver Military -- NHL
Chris Winnes Northwood Prep -- NHL
Adrien Plavsic Lac St.Louis Lions - NHL
Riel Bellegarde Notre Dame Hounds
Pat Szturm Thunder Bay Flyers

1988
Savo Mitrovic Henry Carr Crusaders - All-Hockey East
Domenic Amodeo Henry Carr Crusaders - All American
Joe Flanagan Canterbury Prep - UNH freshman scoring record - top 10 scorer
Frank Messina Canterbury Prep
Mark McGinn Culver Military
Scott Morrow Northwood Prep - NHL
Steve Morrow Northwood Prep - NHL draft pick

So, while his 87 and 88 years were not successful because of 4 rookie D and 2 rookie goalies, the core he built was outstanding. They took off not because he got a kick in the pants, but because the freshmen became juniors.

Comparatively, there is no such upswing in latent on the horizon. Good, but nothing like Kullen brought in.

 

[Snively65]

Re: UNH Wildcats Official Wait til Next Year...14/15 thread

Hey, Greg, I am interested in your UVM tickets; I will send you a pm. The Gutt is a HEA rink that I have not visited, and I have friends in Burlington. Great town for craft brews, too.

I have been going to UNH hockey games since I was a toddler at the outdoor Batchelder rink, pre-Snively in the late 50s and early 60s. Sorry that I missed those great players and teams in the 70s, but I also missed the hard years in the 80s. Spent a sabbatical year at UNH in 1994-95, when I got caught up in UNH hockey again. I do not disagree with a lot that has been posted here and in our previous thread about the team now hitting rock bottom. But, now it seems to me that the only direction is up, so I remain optimistic. At least we have not revived our version of the "Fire Mike Eaves" thread as have done the Badger fans this season. And, we are still on the outside looking in at the Bottom Dwellers Futile Four tournament.

Ref, I am not going anywhere either. Yeah, I know, I have a fall back with two or three others who are trying to keep a Bentley thread alive. But, alas, the Falcons are also languishing again after a promising start, now tied with UNH in the PWR.

It appears that this thread is garnering more posts than the other one. So, without any disrespect to Chuck, as he has convinced me this season that SOG are meaningless, I am copying my post to his thread here, tongue in cheek that it was meant to be.

Of the 10+ threads that were shut down today [yesterday], ours had the most posts. So, my interpretation is that our fan base here is much harder working than is our team. Or, maybe we just have more talent.

 

[HockeyRef]

Hey, Greg, I am interested in your UVM tickets; I will send you a pm. The Gutt is a HEA rink that I have not visited, and I have friends in Burlington. Great town for craft brews, too.

I have been going to UNH hockey games since I was a toddler at the outdoor Batchelder rink, pre-Snively in the late 50s and early 60s. Sorry that I missed those great players and teams in the 70s, but I also missed the hard years in the 80s. Spent a sabbatical year at UNH in 1994-95, when I got caught up in UNH hockey again. I do not disagree with a lot that has been posted here and in our previous thread about the team now hitting rock bottom. But, now it seems to me that the only direction is up, so I remain optimistic. At least we have not revived our version of the "Fire Mike Eaves" thread as have done the Badger fans this season. And, we are still on the outside looking in at the Bottom Dwellers Futile Four tournament.

Ref, I am not going anywhere either. Yeah, I know, I have a fall back with two or three others who are trying to keep a Bentley thread alive. But, alas, the Falcons are also languishing again after a promising start, now tied with UNH in the PWR.

It appears that this thread is garnering more posts than the other one. So, without any disrespect to Chuck, as he has convinced me this season that SOG are meaningless, I am copying my post to his thread here, tongue in cheek that it was meant to be.

Of the 10+ threads that were shut down today [yesterday], ours had the most posts. So, my interpretation is that our fan base here is much harder working than is our team. Or, maybe we just have more talent.

Didn't mean to imply anyone was going anywhere! More to the point we all offer various strengths here but the one thing I think (hope?) we have in common is the desire to see the 'Cats play and be well. Win games to while they are at it. Snively will be at both games gonna make a weekend of it maybe we can catch up. Haven't been to the 'Gutt yet looking forward to the fun in Burlington as well. Take care all of you with the storm this teacher looks forward to the day off ...

 

[skyraider0609]

Re: UNH Wildcats Official Wait til Next Year...14/15 thread

Never been to the Gutt, but I believe they used to, and maybe still do, have one of the raunchier student sections in HE. Does anyone else recall UVM administration's "f bomb jihad" of a few years back complete with campus security officers in the stands to identify the offending parties and have them removed? I recall reading about that someplace. Anyway, from what I've seen of it on television, it looks like a great place to watch a game. And you're right Snively65, a microbrew Shangri-La as well. Sounds like a good weekend. A few hours up 93 and 89, watch some hockey, enjoy the town. What could be better? Maybe the Wildcats get a win as well.

 

[Chuck Murray]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2014/2015 - Next Year Can't Get Here Fast Enough!!!

Re: UNH Wildcats 2014/2015 - Next Year Can't Get Here Fast Enough!!!

Just noticed that we've got two threads. With most of the action in the other one, I'm fine with letting this one slide ... or maybe we can use that one for the bulk of the current news and discussion, and refer to this one for long-term issues? No big deal, either way, ultimately we'll go with the flow. USCHO meets Darwin. Anyway, just a thought below that I wanted to expand upon ...

Somehow Umile doesn't strike me as the kind of "big picture" kind of guy. There's a job to do, if it doesn't work, you just work harder. He'll stay until he can get the National Championship.

... or die trying, right? This reminds me of the various discussions around this place back when the program was at its apex a decade or so ago. There were fans from this program AND fans from other programs who would pop up after the latest close call with destiny had come up short, and they would assure us UNH would "eventually get there". If that meant winning a couple of HE Tourney titles, and a slew of regular season titles, then yip-dee-doo, they accomplished that. But to be 100% fair and accurate, those assurances were that UNH would eventually take the NCAA D-1 title. And the presumption was that eventually "puck luck" would go UNH's way, and *presto* we'd have a real parade down Main St. in Durham NH.

I never bought that line of thinking in the first place, and the most frustrating thing that fans with long enough memories experience is the gradual slow recession from that goal, to where the program is now. And as Greg has pointed out on this and other threads, this is not at all unlike what UNH experienced roughly 30 years ago. And that's something I've honked the horn about for several years now as well. Last time, the fall-off was more precipitous ... this time, it's been gradual but unmistakable. Last time, it took Coach Umile the better part of a decade to rebuild to press the program close to the top of the D-1 pyramid. Can he do it again now? He deserves the chance, at least in my opinion. But I don't see the next Joe Flanagan or Savo Mitrovic out there among the recent or incoming recruits (yet) either. And as Felger pointed out, the assessment (by Josh Ciocco) of the current UNH players at or around the time of recruiting shows that projecting the incoming talent at this level is not an easy thing to do. There are some embarrassing misses in that bunch.

But back to the hero of our story. I think 'Watcher has nailed it (unfortunately), and Coach Umile is just going to hunker down and try harder - not necessarily smarter - until it figuratively (and hopefully not literally) *kills* him. When I posted the "Maybe Dick" thread around this time last year, the image in my mind was of our hero as maniacal Captain Ahab character, who wouldn't stop at anything in his obsessed quest to pursue the ultimate "catch". It was kind of a joke ... and kind of a warning, too. So - who pays the price next? If I was Coach Borek - and not knowing the length of his contract - I would be a little nervous about my future with the program come March. That might be the last "card" Coach Umile can play before he has to justify his own performance with BS35+1.

To me, the rest of the season is an opportunity to really push the freshmen HARD - especially guys who have not broken through, like Chanter and Foegele and Salvaggio, among others. Find out if these guys are players NOW - not in two or three years. With all due respect to Casey Thrush, he is an absolute monument to what this program has become. He is your captain, he is a hard-working but limited player ... and he is currently your 5th top scorer. With 15 points. Everything up to the last two points are commendable and reflect well on the player ... but the last two points reflect poorly on the level of talent in the program. UNH simply MUST do better.

 

[Snively65]

When I first re-read the Ciocco post my initial reaction was that all those Josh-sniffers should be careful what they wish for...

And, how good has been his recruiting for the Seawolves?

 

[e.cat]

Re: UNH Wildcats Official Wait til Next Year...14/15 thread

I have been going to UNH hockey games since I was a toddler at the outdoor Batchelder rink, pre-Snively in the late 50s and early 60s. Sorry that I missed those great players and teams in the 70s, but I also missed the hard years in the 80s. Spent a sabbatical year at UNH in 1994-95, when I got caught up in UNH hockey again. I do not disagree with a lot that has been posted here and in our previous thread about the team now hitting rock bottom. But, now it seems to me that the only direction is up, so I remain optimistic. At least we have not revived our version of the "Fire Mike Eaves" thread as have done the Badger fans this season. And, we are still on the outside looking in at the Bottom Dwellers Futile Four tournament.

If it weren't for bad luck, the Cats would have no luck this year! Whatever could go wrong this year has gone wrong. Starting with Agosta bolting, not to the pros, but to the Q! Then DeSmith and injuries and the flu, and newly reviewable offsides nullifying a timely goal and then the bad ice at the Whitt and on and on and on!! Call it bad karma or bad coaching or bad recruiting it doesn't matter to me. It just stinks and the stench is not going away any time soon.

As I look at the 10 remaining games, I thInk UNH will be lucky to pick up 4 wins which would put them at 12-20-2 for the regular season. No regular season trophy this year! Pulling some upsets in the tournament is possible but not probable.

I'll keep watching and listening to games but any hope of salvaging this season is gone. So I'm on to next season! I'm optimistic next season will be better. It can't be much worse!!

 

[sonar]

Re: UNH Wildcats Official Wait til Next Year...14/15 thread

And, how good has been his recruiting for the Seawolves?

Are there any positives/negatives surrounding the idea that any selection committee involved with hiring the new UNH men's hockey coach ..... be free of any association with the current coaches?

 

[Felger]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2014/2015 - Next Year Can't Get Here Fast Enough!!!

Re: UNH Wildcats 2014/2015 - Next Year Can't Get Here Fast Enough!!!

Just noticed that we've got two threads. With most of the action in the other one, I'm fine with letting this one slide ... or maybe we can use that one for the bulk of the current news and discussion, and refer to this one for long-term issues? No big deal, either way, ultimately we'll go with the flow. USCHO meets Darwin. Anyway, just a thought below that I wanted to expand upon ...



... or die trying, right? This reminds me of the various discussions around this place back when the program was at its apex a decade or so ago. There were fans from this program AND fans from other programs who would pop up after the latest close call with destiny had come up short, and they would assure us UNH would "eventually get there". If that meant winning a couple of HE Tourney titles, and a slew of regular season titles, then yip-dee-doo, they accomplished that. But to be 100% fair and accurate, those assurances were that UNH would eventually take the NCAA D-1 title. And the presumption was that eventually "puck luck" would go UNH's way, and *presto* we'd have a real parade down Main St. in Durham NH.

I never bought that line of thinking in the first place, and the most frustrating thing that fans with long enough memories experience is the gradual slow recession from that goal, to where the program is now. And as Greg has pointed out on this and other threads, this is not at all unlike what UNH experienced roughly 30 years ago. And that's something I've honked the horn about for several years now as well. Last time, the fall-off was more precipitous ... this time, it's been gradual but unmistakable. Last time, it took Coach Umile the better part of a decade to rebuild to press the program close to the top of the D-1 pyramid. Can he do it again now? He deserves the chance, at least in my opinion. But I don't see the next Joe Flanagan or Savo Mitrovic out there among the recent or incoming recruits (yet) either. And as Felger pointed out, the assessment (by Josh Ciocco) of the current UNH players at or around the time of recruiting shows that projecting the incoming talent at this level is not an easy thing to do. There are some embarrassing misses in that bunch.

But back to the hero of our story. I think 'Watcher has nailed it (unfortunately), and Coach Umile is just going to hunker down and try harder - not necessarily smarter - until it figuratively (and hopefully not literally) *kills* him. When I posted the "Maybe Dick" thread around this time last year, the image in my mind was of our hero as maniacal Captain Ahab character, who wouldn't stop at anything in his obsessed quest to pursue the ultimate "catch". It was kind of a joke ... and kind of a warning, too. So - who pays the price next? If I was Coach Borek - and not knowing the length of his contract - I would be a little nervous about my future with the program come March. That might be the last "card" Coach Umile can play before he has to justify his own performance with BS35+1.

To me, the rest of the season is an opportunity to really push the freshmen HARD - especially guys who have not broken through, like Chanter and Foegele and Salvaggio, among others. Find out if these guys are players NOW - not in two or three years. With all due respect to Casey Thrush, he is an absolute monument to what this program has become. He is your captain, he is a hard-working but limited player ... and he is currently your 5th top scorer. With 15 points. Everything up to the last two points are commendable and reflect well on the player ... but the last two points reflect poorly on the level of talent in the program. UNH simply MUST do better.

I admit my comment about Josh Ciocco was a bit caustic. (Perhaps the kind of thing you might hear on the radio between 2 and 6 during the week.) However there is a lesson in there nonetheless. I have always believed that part of the reason so many UNH fans salivated over Ciocco as a potential coach was due to his energy and obvious passion for the program. But Passion Ain't Enough. It seems Josh wasn't wearing blue tinted glasses, he was wearing blue blockers. Don't mean to hurt any feelings on this board, but that post could have been written by some of our resident Phyllis types. The thing is Josh Ciocco learned that passion for UNH hockey from Dick Umile. Say whatever you want about the current coach but he does bleed blue. If passion was all it took things would be fine. But it takes more than that.

Re-reading Josh Ciocco's comments, and then reflecting on something Greg wrote, has caused me to question what I want to see going forward. I always assumed/hoped that when the time came for the current coach to retire (and I don't intimate that time is soon) that another UNHer would take over behind the bench. I have been partial to Souza, White, Foley, etc, guys that have actually done the job for a number of seasons and developed the skills and connections necessary to do the job. But Greg talked about the necessity of bringing in fresh perspectives so now I wonder if perhaps somebody completely outside the program might be a better choice. (A question I see Sonar has brought up on the other thread.)

UNH fans like to see their program as the anti-Maine, but realistically there is more that unites the two programs rather than divides them. Northern New England, state schools, whose flagship sport is hockey, though football makes occasional runs at each institution. They compete for many of the same players (i.e Matile, O'Neill, B.Yandle, etc) And I would argue that one reason each is languishing near the bottom of the standings is too much reliance on jags from the EJHL. When Maine burst onto the scene three decades ago it was a couple guys who had ZERO connection to the program who did it. Now I understand that the program was less than 10 years old so grabbing anyone with Maine ties was unlikely. Plus, one of them might have taken a few short cuts that make the guys in Foxboro look like choirboys. But you get my point. Though I have always felt that Brian McCloskey might have gotten a bit too much credit for all the good things that happened in Durham in the 1990's, he was, without question successful, and is another guy who had no ties to a school when he took its job.

In the short term none of this matters if, as many on here seem to think, most if not all of the current staff aren't going anywhere soon. while Chuck likes to use the Captain Ahab analogy mine is a bit more acidic. I see the belly of the Whitt as a modern day version of the Augean Stable. The only problem is that Hercules ain't walking through that door folks, and nobody is going to re-route the Lamprey and Oyster Rivers through the bowels of the Whitt to flush out years of waste. But we do have May 2015 and 2016 to look forward to as the junior and senior classes each pass through the system. I agree with Chuck - push the freshmen to find out what they have got now. Everybody, even Brian McCloskey and Grant Standbrook, misses on recruits from time to time. But its better to find out sooner rather than later. And lets be honest - what players excite you the most, show the most talent, offer the most (only?) hope moving forward? For me its Foegele and Eiserman, the two youngest guys on the team. And perhaps, just perhaps, if those younger guys do show some spark and success it might move the current coaching staff off its long entrenched mindset of relying on older guys, not to mention question its reliance on deferring recruits, which has really backfired in a couple of high profile cases.

 

[Greg A]

Re: UNH Wildcats Official Wait til Next Year...14/15 thread

I suspect that the change had little to do with Kullen being told to shape up or ship out. The program was already on the upswing with the new energy of the youthful coach. And, similar to this year, he brought in a bunch of freshmen defensemen trying to replace the 1985 crappy freshman D of Mike Roth, Kevin Schrader, Mark Babcock and Jeff Cournoyer that he swept out in 1987. (Of course, as noted below, Kullen replaced them with Plavsic, MacIntyre, Dean. Morrow and Trenovich, which is more than they are replacing this year). Like this year, he brought in two freshmen goalies, ironically, because one of the holdovers was arrested and thrown off the team.

That energy brought in 4 future NHL players, UNH's top 10 scorer and a bunch of all-hockey east, all-americans. As we've discussed before, that 1988 class was what Umile used to make the NCAAs in 1992.

1987
Matt Trenovich Brockton
Bill LaCouture Natick - NHL draft pick
Chris Thayer Kent Prep - NHL draft pick
Dave MacIntyre Lawrence Academy --- 10 Year minor league defender
Bruce MacDonald Loomis-Chaffee - NHL draft pick
Pat Morrison Colonel Grey
Kevin Dean Culver Military -- NHL
Chris Winnes Northwood Prep -- NHL
Adrien Plavsic Lac St.Louis Lions - NHL
Riel Bellegarde Notre Dame Hounds
Pat Szturm Thunder Bay Flyers

1988
Savo Mitrovic Henry Carr Crusaders - All-Hockey East
Domenic Amodeo Henry Carr Crusaders - All American
Joe Flanagan Canterbury Prep - UNH freshman scoring record - top 10 scorer
Frank Messina Canterbury Prep
Mark McGinn Culver Military
Scott Morrow Northwood Prep - NHL
Steve Morrow Northwood Prep - NHL draft pick

So, while his 87 and 88 years were not successful because of 4 rookie D and 2 rookie goalies, the core he built was outstanding. They took off not because he got a kick in the pants, but because the freshmen became juniors.

Comparatively, there is no such upswing in latent on the horizon. Good, but nothing like Kullen brought in.

Watcher we have had this debate before but my sources at the time were pretty plugged in and I was told that Kullen was, in fact, called in on the carpet. He was, after all, the the lead recruiter in the latter years of Coach Holt and directed the recruiting after Holt retired. The Class of '91 was the start of the reversal of fortune, no doubt, but Kullen had been the lead dog for at least three or four years before then. He was primarily responsible for the free fall and it wasn't until new assistants came in that things started to get better. Don't get me wrong, I liked Bob as a person, he was a pretty funny guy once you got know him, but it took him awhile to figure out that UNH was no longer in the ECAC and that recruiting high school kids just didn't cut it any more when facing the likes of Minnesota and Wisconsin every other weekend. But whatever the reason, fortunes did change for the better. I think you agree that UNH is in the exact same situation today as they were in 1986, except the dearth of talent is even worse, the inclination to change is less, and the hill to climb is steeper.

 

[Snively65]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2014/2015 - Next Year Can't Get Here Fast Enough!!!

Re: UNH Wildcats 2014/2015 - Next Year Can't Get Here Fast Enough!!!

And, red shirting frosh, which led to the vacuum in experience at D this season. At least that process ended, if only by necessity.

 

[NCAA watcher]

Re: UNH Wildcats Official Wait til Next Year...14/15 thread

I think we do agree on most of this - I never got to know him past the intensity, though he did write a school recommendation for me.

I think the 81 to 86 drought is tied exclusively to Ontario. Terry Flanagan had the mid-west Ontario Jr. B leagues (and particularly Stratford, where his dad was coach) sewed up, getting Barton, Barth, Forget, Yantzi, and Macpherson from 76 to 80. In 81 Flanagan was hired as an assistant even though -- imagine this - he was not yet bald with prostate problems. The crazy HC who made this mistake of hiring a 24 year old was Jerry York. he paid for that mistake by getting Ontario/Stratford players Rob Blake, Dave Ellett and winning the National Championship in 1984. UNH got locked into one team in Ontario (Henry Carr) where they got some players (Richmond, LuePann, Lambert, Shields, Horner, A.Brown) but Flanagan got the best Henry Carr players (Meharry, Gribble) and also from other teams in that league, which UNH never accessed (e.g., St.Mike's).

By the time Kullen got contacts in Ontario he was the head coach, and actually outrecruited other teams for Amodeo, Mitrovic, and with a vibrant young Sean Coady, got new leads in Mass.

Anybody noticing a trend about who gets good recruits?

By the way, that idiot York still hasn't figured out his mistakes, hiring early 30s kids like Cavanagh, Paluch, Brown and now Ayers.

 

[HockeyRef]

Re: UNH Wildcats Official Wait til Next Year...14/15 thread

I think we do agree on most of this - I never got to know him past the intensity, though he did write a school recommendation for me.

I think the 81 to 86 drought is tied exclusively to Ontario. Terry Flanagan had the mid-west Ontario Jr. B leagues (and particularly Stratford, where his dad was coach) sewed up, getting Barton, Barth, Forget, Yantzi, and Macpherson from 76 to 80. In 81 Flanagan was hired as an assistant even though -- imagine this - he was not yet bald with prostate problems. The crazy HC who made this mistake of hiring a 24 year old was Jerry York. he paid for that mistake by getting Ontario/Stratford players Rob Blake, Dave Ellett and winning the National Championship in 1984. UNH got locked into one team in Ontario (Henry Carr) where they got some players (Richmond, LuePann, Lambert, Shields, Horner, A.Brown) but Flanagan got the best Henry Carr players (Meharry, Gribble) and also from other teams in that league, which UNH never accessed (e.g., St.Mike's).

By the time Kullen got contacts in Ontario he was the head coach, and actually outrecruited other teams for Amodeo, Mitrovic, and with a vibrant young Sean Coady, got new leads in Mass.

Anybody noticing a trend about who gets good recruits?

By the way, that idiot York still hasn't figured out his mistakes, hiring early 30s kids like Cavanagh, Paluch, Brown and now Ayers.

Watcher, I thought this is what you, and many others (the non Phyliss types on this board), were all gaga over for assistant coaches? What IS the desired assistant coach? I know you guys aren't thrilled about Borek...and I'm not into that debate on this snowy morning...so back to my q, what's wrong with these guys?? Who should Jerry York hire? Or am I missing your point entirely.