Prideofthecats and Scarano should ride out of town on the same horse.... They are both misinformed and both very, very, confused...
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UNH Wildcats - Marty Scarano
- Thread starter Czarry
- Start date
Prideofthecats and Scarano should ride out of town on the same horse.... They are both misinformed and both very, very, confused...
ExHockeyguy
Registered User
Re: UNH Wildcats - Marty Scarano
Pretty sad responses from prideofthecats and GoUNH. A level of immaturity and contradiction I haven't seen on these threads in a long time. I typically find the comments from posters such as Chuck Murray and wildcatdc and others to be insightful, witty and worthy of good debate. I'm sure that a full inspection of this situation will bear out their comments to be factual and true as opposed to the revisionist history that pride and GoUNH are trying to write.
Pretty sad responses from prideofthecats and GoUNH. A level of immaturity and contradiction I haven't seen on these threads in a long time. I typically find the comments from posters such as Chuck Murray and wildcatdc and others to be insightful, witty and worthy of good debate. I'm sure that a full inspection of this situation will bear out their comments to be factual and true as opposed to the revisionist history that pride and GoUNH are trying to write.
Re: UNH Wildcats - Marty Scarano
Why don't you just describe this "incident" in detail then instead of just talking about. If you were there and saw it then I don't think that would be violating the trust you have with friends on the team or disrespecting the school. If you weren't there you could still enlighten us. It's not some top secret event if it happened on the bench and in plain view for anyone in attendance to see.
Why don't you just describe this "incident" in detail then instead of just talking about. If you were there and saw it then I don't think that would be violating the trust you have with friends on the team or disrespecting the school. If you weren't there you could still enlighten us. It's not some top secret event if it happened on the bench and in plain view for anyone in attendance to see.
scoreboard
Registered User
Re: UNH Wildcats - Marty Scarano
The Men's basketball team continues to impress with their 60-43 loss to Hartford at home...
The Men's basketball team continues to impress with their 60-43 loss to Hartford at home...
Chuck Murray
WIS & Effingwoods Hockey Almanac
Re: UNH Wildcats - Marty Scarano
With all due respect ... that's the position BS35 has taken. But if you are an alum or a supporter of the UNH Women's Hockey program OR (like myself) are a supporter of UNH Men's Hockey who has held the work of Coach McCloskey in that program a decade or so ago in the highest regard ... I think everyone who supports UNH Hockey (and UNH in a more general sense) has a right to know what actually happened, and how this was (mis)handled. Just because certain people in the AD's office want this to go away quietly to serve their own self-interests doesn't mean everyone/anyone has to just take them at their word. You do understand that, correct?
Actually, most of this info is contained in the items that Foster's released with Coach McCloskey's story recently. Having said that, I'd gotten most of this info separately from other sources before it ran in Foster's. Check further down in this thread, and/or do a Google search on "Foster's McCloskey" for the necessary links, read up, and understand this is all out in the public domain already.
So says you. Others see this as arising from a situation where Coach was encouraged to keep the player in the program despite having misgivings, and then when the player acted up (again), Coach's boss got a bad case of amnesia, and failed to back him in a disciplinary issue with same same player, who arguably was only still in the program due to institutional (BS35) intervention.
Wow ... what a sad commentary on what is seen as acceptable player communication with a coach.
So you are now saying you think this was a CRIMINAL act?
And all the while, either you or your source(s) saw this terribly "violent" act and did not report it immediately to campus police, Durham Police, and/or the NH State Police? 
Holy Libel, Batman!!
I guess being anonymous kinda helps you escape that one, eh?
Unless you saw the event in question with your own eyes, what you have at best is hearsay. Frankly, all I have is hearsay as well, but the information I've gathered has come from various sources - several with first-hand info, not all necessarily on the same "side", and it has been amazingly consistent on the key points. So I find it credible at this point. It's why I asked you the various questions last time around, to give you an opportunity to share information from your perspective. You have mostly chosen not to give anything more than a "I'm an anonymous poster, these are my first 3 posts ever at USCHO, I know what I'm talking about, trust me."
That's a pretty big ask. I hope you understand that. I'm not saying you have anything but the purest of intentions, and are probably sticking up for your friends, at least as you see it. But it's fair game when you choose to be anonymous that folks might question your motive AND your information. Not providing further info is your right and perogative, but it doesn't help your credibility. That's life.
Why is it that I keep having this effect on posters??
FWIW ... despite my own thoughts and opinions, I'm pretty sure a majority of posters who are reading along here are still withholding judgment on this incident. And I'm wide open to receiving additional info and insights on this. I'd prefer you and/or others who might have valuable credible insight on the other side of the issue keep engaged in the discussion. Your call. Regardless, thanks for sharing.
With all due respect ... that's the position BS35 has taken. But if you are an alum or a supporter of the UNH Women's Hockey program OR (like myself) are a supporter of UNH Men's Hockey who has held the work of Coach McCloskey in that program a decade or so ago in the highest regard ... I think everyone who supports UNH Hockey (and UNH in a more general sense) has a right to know what actually happened, and how this was (mis)handled. Just because certain people in the AD's office want this to go away quietly to serve their own self-interests doesn't mean everyone/anyone has to just take them at their word. You do understand that, correct?
Actually, most of this info is contained in the items that Foster's released with Coach McCloskey's story recently. Having said that, I'd gotten most of this info separately from other sources before it ran in Foster's. Check further down in this thread, and/or do a Google search on "Foster's McCloskey" for the necessary links, read up, and understand this is all out in the public domain already.
So says you. Others see this as arising from a situation where Coach was encouraged to keep the player in the program despite having misgivings, and then when the player acted up (again), Coach's boss got a bad case of amnesia, and failed to back him in a disciplinary issue with same same player, who arguably was only still in the program due to institutional (BS35) intervention.
Wow ... what a sad commentary on what is seen as acceptable player communication with a coach.
So you are now saying you think this was a CRIMINAL act?
And all the while, either you or your source(s) saw this terribly "violent" act and did not report it immediately to campus police, Durham Police, and/or the NH State Police? Holy Libel, Batman!!
I guess being anonymous kinda helps you escape that one, eh?Unless you saw the event in question with your own eyes, what you have at best is hearsay. Frankly, all I have is hearsay as well, but the information I've gathered has come from various sources - several with first-hand info, not all necessarily on the same "side", and it has been amazingly consistent on the key points. So I find it credible at this point. It's why I asked you the various questions last time around, to give you an opportunity to share information from your perspective. You have mostly chosen not to give anything more than a "I'm an anonymous poster, these are my first 3 posts ever at USCHO, I know what I'm talking about, trust me."
That's a pretty big ask. I hope you understand that. I'm not saying you have anything but the purest of intentions, and are probably sticking up for your friends, at least as you see it. But it's fair game when you choose to be anonymous that folks might question your motive AND your information. Not providing further info is your right and perogative, but it doesn't help your credibility. That's life.
Why is it that I keep having this effect on posters??
FWIW ... despite my own thoughts and opinions, I'm pretty sure a majority of posters who are reading along here are still withholding judgment on this incident. And I'm wide open to receiving additional info and insights on this. I'd prefer you and/or others who might have valuable credible insight on the other side of the issue keep engaged in the discussion. Your call. Regardless, thanks for sharing.
Re: UNH Wildcats - Marty Scarano
Fwiw, two days after the story broke about Mac's firing, Coach Wood publicly posted on Facebook his support, thanks, and admiration for all that Mac did/does. Seems that whatever the nature of the incident, it doesn't seem like Coach Wood felt it to be so obviously egregious.
Fwiw, two days after the story broke about Mac's firing, Coach Wood publicly posted on Facebook his support, thanks, and admiration for all that Mac did/does. Seems that whatever the nature of the incident, it doesn't seem like Coach Wood felt it to be so obviously egregious.
Chuck Murray
WIS & Effingwoods Hockey Almanac
Re: UNH Wildcats - Marty Scarano
Excellent point. Let me guess ... *somebody* suggested he take it down quickly ...
Excellent point. Let me guess ... *somebody* suggested he take it down quickly ...
Re: UNH Wildcats - Marty Scarano
Still up on Mac's Facebook last I knew.
Excellent point. Let me guess ... *somebody* suggested he take it down quickly ...
Still up on Mac's Facebook last I knew.
Chuck Murray
WIS & Effingwoods Hockey Almanac
Re: UNH Wildcats - Marty Scarano
(Too) vague reference to the disappearance of an informative thread on the Women's Hockey forum. Sorry.
(Too) vague reference to the disappearance of an informative thread on the Women's Hockey forum. Sorry.
Re: UNH Wildcats - Marty Scarano
I have read the last few days of comments, and will offer my FACTS and opinions.
Facts:
1) There is only one name that has been brought forth to me as having been at the game as a spectator, and witnessed the game from the seats behind the bench, who says he saw the whole incident. I was told this by a third party.
2) I was at the whole game, stayed with friends and family afterward to watch Skate With the Cats, and had friends who skated with the 'Cats. No one heard or made mention of an incident.
3) I was emailed by another fan after the firing became public, and asked if I could clarify what happened with regard to the press release. When I responded, I got a reply in which he indicated that he was seated directly behind the bench and saw nothing out of the ordinary.
4)Despite the fact that the game was televised, and also recorded by the team for review, there is not a single bit of footage that shows anything amiss on the bench.
5)The incident took place during a change on the fly. Anyone who has ever played, or watched a change on the fly, knows that is is easily the most chaotic part of the game. There were 15 skaters dressed, and the player in question did not execute the play in the neutral zone immediately prior to the change correctly, which resulted in a NZ turnover, and nearly a too many men call, as players coming on and off the ice got jammed and tangled at the bench. Coach Mac was trying to verbally correct the player, the other 4 of the skaters on the ice were busy getting off the ice, while 5 were jumping on. Coaches Wood and Jones were running the D and forwards. and at that moment in time, were likely occupied. That leaves a possible 5 players, and maybe a goaltender (only one was on the bench, as the third was injured) to see what happened. The incident did not last for that long.
6) There was a meeting between the player, the captains, a player close to the other player, and the coaches after the game, in which they all discussed the incident. i have heard from a very reliable source that emails were sent from at least one player to Coach Mac thanking him for addressing and resolving the issue.
7) Every player and coach that was on the bench for the Saturday (incident) game, was on the bench in their official capacity as players and coaches on Sunday. In FACT, I saw Coach Mac in the coaches office while the team was warming up, and he was calmly reviewing game notes, and conversational as normal.
8) As admitted by the AD himself. the matter was not even brought to his attention until Monday
9) There were players who wanted to meet with the Administration and President in Coach Mac's defense. who were denied their request.
OPINION:
1) Regardless of what actually happened, and where the case will lead in the courts, the University issued a terribly misleading press release. I was told numerous times by the "powers that be" that the release was very carefully worded. Go to the USCHO cafe and start a couple of Word Association threads. Start one with "inappropriate physical contact", and another with "altercation on the bench" and tell me which leads to the right conclusion, and which takes a tour of the gutter. I am not in communications, nor do I have an English degree, but it took me about 4 seconds to come up with a more accurate, less misleading, and therefore less damaging phrase.
I was also told that despite 35 years of experience, the AD had no way to know how the press and media would use the press release. Hmmm, learn much along the way?
2) The deed has been done, and the future as relates to this incident is in the hands of the lawyers. What remains is a hockey team and coaching staff that has to figure out how to compartmentalize, put their differences and emotions aside, and win as many games as they can between now, and hopefully March. There are probably even more than two sides to this story, but the one constant is that the team, regardless of who sides with whom, has to move forward.
I have read the last few days of comments, and will offer my FACTS and opinions.
Facts:
1) There is only one name that has been brought forth to me as having been at the game as a spectator, and witnessed the game from the seats behind the bench, who says he saw the whole incident. I was told this by a third party.
2) I was at the whole game, stayed with friends and family afterward to watch Skate With the Cats, and had friends who skated with the 'Cats. No one heard or made mention of an incident.
3) I was emailed by another fan after the firing became public, and asked if I could clarify what happened with regard to the press release. When I responded, I got a reply in which he indicated that he was seated directly behind the bench and saw nothing out of the ordinary.
4)Despite the fact that the game was televised, and also recorded by the team for review, there is not a single bit of footage that shows anything amiss on the bench.
5)The incident took place during a change on the fly. Anyone who has ever played, or watched a change on the fly, knows that is is easily the most chaotic part of the game. There were 15 skaters dressed, and the player in question did not execute the play in the neutral zone immediately prior to the change correctly, which resulted in a NZ turnover, and nearly a too many men call, as players coming on and off the ice got jammed and tangled at the bench. Coach Mac was trying to verbally correct the player, the other 4 of the skaters on the ice were busy getting off the ice, while 5 were jumping on. Coaches Wood and Jones were running the D and forwards. and at that moment in time, were likely occupied. That leaves a possible 5 players, and maybe a goaltender (only one was on the bench, as the third was injured) to see what happened. The incident did not last for that long.
6) There was a meeting between the player, the captains, a player close to the other player, and the coaches after the game, in which they all discussed the incident. i have heard from a very reliable source that emails were sent from at least one player to Coach Mac thanking him for addressing and resolving the issue.
7) Every player and coach that was on the bench for the Saturday (incident) game, was on the bench in their official capacity as players and coaches on Sunday. In FACT, I saw Coach Mac in the coaches office while the team was warming up, and he was calmly reviewing game notes, and conversational as normal.
8) As admitted by the AD himself. the matter was not even brought to his attention until Monday
9) There were players who wanted to meet with the Administration and President in Coach Mac's defense. who were denied their request.
OPINION:
1) Regardless of what actually happened, and where the case will lead in the courts, the University issued a terribly misleading press release. I was told numerous times by the "powers that be" that the release was very carefully worded. Go to the USCHO cafe and start a couple of Word Association threads. Start one with "inappropriate physical contact", and another with "altercation on the bench" and tell me which leads to the right conclusion, and which takes a tour of the gutter. I am not in communications, nor do I have an English degree, but it took me about 4 seconds to come up with a more accurate, less misleading, and therefore less damaging phrase.
I was also told that despite 35 years of experience, the AD had no way to know how the press and media would use the press release. Hmmm, learn much along the way?
2) The deed has been done, and the future as relates to this incident is in the hands of the lawyers. What remains is a hockey team and coaching staff that has to figure out how to compartmentalize, put their differences and emotions aside, and win as many games as they can between now, and hopefully March. There are probably even more than two sides to this story, but the one constant is that the team, regardless of who sides with whom, has to move forward.
Chuck Murray
WIS & Effingwoods Hockey Almanac
Re: UNH Wildcats - Marty Scarano
Exceptional post.
Item #6 in DC78-82's post reflects extremely well on Coach McCloskey and the team's leadership.
Item #9 in the same post is what happens when *somebody* (in this case BS35) has already made up their mind and doesn't want to be troubled with any of those pesky, annoying facts and details.
Draw your own conclusions, folks.
Exceptional post.
Item #6 in DC78-82's post reflects extremely well on Coach McCloskey and the team's leadership.
Item #9 in the same post is what happens when *somebody* (in this case BS35) has already made up their mind and doesn't want to be troubled with any of those pesky, annoying facts and details.
Draw your own conclusions, folks.
Re: UNH Wildcats - Marty Scarano
I agree - an excellent post. Chuck, I am STILL witholding any conclusions until the exact facts about item #5 become public, and how the incident in item #5 (still not clearly outlined) fit within the greater context of behaviors exhibited by Coach M for which item #5 might have been the last straw.
This should absolutely NOT be interpreted as support for Marty's decision - I am simply looking for the WHOLE story, with gory details, before "drawing my own conclusion". Make sense?
Also wondering if the totality of facts/perceptions will ever come out
Exceptional post.
Item #6 in DC78-82's post reflects extremely well on Coach McCloskey and the team's leadership.
Item #9 in the same post is what happens when *somebody* (in this case BS35) has already made up their mind and doesn't want to be troubled with any of those pesky, annoying facts and details.
Draw your own conclusions, folks.
I agree - an excellent post. Chuck, I am STILL witholding any conclusions until the exact facts about item #5 become public, and how the incident in item #5 (still not clearly outlined) fit within the greater context of behaviors exhibited by Coach M for which item #5 might have been the last straw.
This should absolutely NOT be interpreted as support for Marty's decision - I am simply looking for the WHOLE story, with gory details, before "drawing my own conclusion". Make sense?
Also wondering if the totality of facts/perceptions will ever come out
HockeyRef
Well-known member
Re: UNH Wildcats - Marty Scarano
I agree that we will probably never know the exact facts of this case; especially once it goes to the courts, etc. One is told to keep silent I would think in order to get their justification (money). Of course it's just a conjecture...Sure is interesting tho the comments in this great post...
I agree that we will probably never know the exact facts of this case; especially once it goes to the courts, etc. One is told to keep silent I would think in order to get their justification (money). Of course it's just a conjecture...Sure is interesting tho the comments in this great post...
Chuck Murray
WIS & Effingwoods Hockey Almanac
Re: UNH Wildcats - Marty Scarano
None that I'm aware of. I'm sure they have bigger fish to fry.
Not aware of anything new out there ... I think the post from DC78-82 the other day was probably the most insightful one we're likely to see, at least for the foreseeable future. When the lawyers get involved - as now appears to be the case - the flow of information tends to get restricted, unless one of the parties decides that it's to their advantage to leak things out here and there.
Sadly, I suspect the Foster's articles may have been the last public attempt we'll see to get information out there, and in that case it appears Coach McCloskey's "side" did that to counter the initial ham-handed UNH press release, which the school refused to retract or edit. My guess is that if there had been a retraction or modification issued by UNH to the original press release, you never would have seen the Foster's articles, although the final result of litigation was/is likely unavoidable regardless.
If you're looking for rumors though ... I have it on questionable veracity that someone physically resembling BS35 was seen operating a snowblower in the general vicinity of Coach McDonnell's neighborhood last week.
None that I'm aware of. I'm sure they have bigger fish to fry.
Not aware of anything new out there ... I think the post from DC78-82 the other day was probably the most insightful one we're likely to see, at least for the foreseeable future. When the lawyers get involved - as now appears to be the case - the flow of information tends to get restricted, unless one of the parties decides that it's to their advantage to leak things out here and there.
Sadly, I suspect the Foster's articles may have been the last public attempt we'll see to get information out there, and in that case it appears Coach McCloskey's "side" did that to counter the initial ham-handed UNH press release, which the school refused to retract or edit. My guess is that if there had been a retraction or modification issued by UNH to the original press release, you never would have seen the Foster's articles, although the final result of litigation was/is likely unavoidable regardless.
If you're looking for rumors though ... I have it on questionable veracity that someone physically resembling BS35 was seen operating a snowblower in the general vicinity of Coach McDonnell's neighborhood last week.
Re: UNH Wildcats - Marty Scarano
Wow. "Black Betty" is back. Since Scarano was the one who banned it, don't you think he approved (even suggested) its return?
My opinion: He's throwing us a bone to distract us. "Aren't things great at UNH? "Black Betty" is back! .... McCloskey? Who?"
Wow. "Black Betty" is back. Since Scarano was the one who banned it, don't you think he approved (even suggested) its return?
My opinion: He's throwing us a bone to distract us. "Aren't things great at UNH? "Black Betty" is back! .... McCloskey? Who?"
HockeyRef
Well-known member
Ha! I was thinking the same...on another note it will be interesting to see what comes of the Union/RPI brawl last night as far as the Union coach et al fighting..we all know what would happen to one of our coaches now don't we? Not that this is the thread to discuss their issues just musing on a Sunday trying to get psyched about my 5 hr ride home from the UMaine game...
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"Drive Home Safely!" as our students chanted at the end of UNH wins at Merrimack back in the day.