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UNH Wildcats 2017/2018 - Umile's Last Stand - The Grand Finale

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How far this program has fallen, they may never recover. UNH used to always be in the mix, nowadays? Who would want to play for such a losing program? I hope Souza has a selling point because Umile had nothing..................

I’m taking the historical perspective. Over three season, 1985-1986 to 1987-1988, UNH won a total of 19 games. They had a few players who were okay, but not anywhere enough to be competitive in a schedule that was comprised of playing other teams in Hockey East and teams from the WCHA. It basically took three years to clean out the roster and bring in guys who could actually play Division 1 hockey. By the 1989-1990 season they had turned the corner, finishing .500 and reaching the HE semifinals. The next year they won 20 games for the first time in seven years and the year after that they made the NCAA tournament for the first time in eight years. The turnaround didn’t occur just by happenstance. It required a different mindset when recruiting, going to areas where UNH had hardly ever recruited before. Above all, the assistants who brought in these players were aggressive. The message given to the guys who came in the fall of ‘88 was, you come to UNH you’ll get big minutes right away. All I’m saying is that a turnaround can be executed. Whether this coaching group can do it remains to be seen. I see glimmers of hope with this year’s freshmen and from what people say about the incoming class. But it has to be a continuous climb. All I’m saying is that it can be done because I’ve seen it.
 
Re: UNH Wildcats 2017/2018 - Umile's Last Stand - The Grand Finale

I see glimmers of hope with this year’s freshmen and from what people say about the incoming class.

Do tell. From what I see, one average or above average skater (Crookshank), and a good goalie who you can see as a four year starter. Three kids who you hope will be average third line/second/third D pair players (Verrier, Green, Esposito). When replacing a 10 person class, thats.......both incomplete and not good.

Jr.Blackburn --Sr.Vela ----So.Kelleher
Fr.Crookshank --Sr.Nazarian--Jr.Grasso
Jr.BVR -------Sr.Miller -- So.MacAdams
So.Sato--- Jr.Fregona -- Esposito
Fr.Cipollone---Jr.Sacco --Jr.Cefalu

So.Gildon-- So.Maass
Jr.Wyse -- Sr.Boyd
Fr.Green -- Fr.Verrier
Jr.Dawson --


Given the numbers (and presumptive scholarships) walking down the graduation isle (and departing early like J. Miller), we assume they have at least three scholarship late recruits stashed away, one on D, and two up front. (Look at the chart, and basically looking at it from the perspective of what were the kids were likely offered at the time they were recruited the third line should be half scholarship the fourth line has one significant scholarship kid (Fregona), and the fifth line should be walk-ons/minimal scholarship kids. The third through seventh defensemen shoud be far less than full scholarship kids). The second goalie, Robinson, should not be a full scholarship kid, as he was a project in-State kid when they committed. That's a lot of money available, unless they have offered way too much money on lightly recruited kids, or money was spent in 2015 to keep recruits like Fregona and Esposito in the fold: as insiders said at the time, "Others ... made more whole ... "..."yes a 50 or 75% was made a full. Which with 18 scholarships you better be right on with your prospect."
 
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Re: UNH Wildcats 2017/2018 - Umile's Last Stand - The Grand Finale

....than this season?!? 😳

Yes - worse than this season. This year's team stockpiled 9 wins up through virtually Thanksgiving or thereabouts. The team that's won one (1) game over the rest of the season - including that crème-filled passage on both sides of the Winter break - is going to be the one coming back next season, minus some decent players (others may admittedly fall into the "addition by subtraction" category), adding a whole lot of nondescript recruits (with one or two exceptions), and either a re-arranging of the deck chairs on the Titanic (please come back, EJ!!) OR more wholesale changes than anticipated in the coaching department - with a strong lean on the former over the latter.

Next year's team will (really) surprise me if they crack double-digit wins, to be completely frank.

No one should underestimate the challenges facing Coach Souza going forwards. It's that bad.
 
Re: UNH Wildcats 2017/2018 - Umile's Last Stand - The Grand Finale

Stand corrected.

Technically you may have been wrong Greg. But I think there is a big difference between finishing last in a seven team league in the mid-80's and finishing 11th in a league that now includes Vermont, Massachusetts Merrimack and UConn. Go back and look at some of the players that were in HockeyEast back then. Then factor in the WCHA element. (I mean Brett Hull played in Snively for chrisakes.) Not to mention that this has to be the weakest HE has been in years. Even though that 1988 team finished last (and only won 7 games) it had two players on the all rookie. As you say, things were looking up.

However to steven22's larger point - UNH did finish last THREE years in a row. So moving forward Chuck may very well be correct in that things get worse before they get better.
 
Yes - worse than this season. This year's team stockpiled 9 wins up through virtually Thanksgiving or thereabouts. The team that's won one (1) game over the rest of the season - including that crème-filled passage on both sides of the Winter break - is going to be the one coming back next season, minus some decent players (others may admittedly fall into the "addition by subtraction" category), adding a whole lot of nondescript recruits (with one or two exceptions), and either a re-arranging of the deck chairs on the Titanic (please come back, EJ!!) OR more wholesale changes than anticipated in the coaching department - with a strong lean on the former over the latter.

Next year's team will (really) surprise me if they crack double-digit wins, to be completely frank.

No one should underestimate the challenges facing Coach Souza going forwards. It's that bad.

I dunno...sounds like more of the same if you ask me. And I don't think anyone is expecting Souza to perform any miracles! My biggest q is will I buy season tix or not. Prob just one. Honestly? Can't see it any different whether they win 10 games or 8...but I do agree things will take time to shake out...just in time for my retirement from teaching! (Gotta stop thinking about that I don't want to be Bill Parcells 😉😳🙄)
 
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Re: UNH Wildcats 2017/2018 - Umile's Last Stand - The Grand Finale

Not that he would have made a big difference on this team but I would like to remind everyone that 5 years ago I was on the board saying UNH needed to sign Mason Jobst, now a junior captain at Ohio State, who played high school hockey with my son. I emailed Umile and Scott Borek multiple times and never heard a peep back. The only team that looked closely at him was Ohio State at the time a mediocre CCHA team at best. This year they are as good as anyone in the country. These are the errors that have propagated the continued underachieving of this team, I hope once Umile is out of the picture that will change. Watch some film on Mason, three weeks ago against Michigan he scored a shorty, went off the ice for 15 seconds, came back on to defend on a 5-3 man penalty kill and blocked 5 shots. That's a hockey player.
 
Re: UNH Wildcats 2017/2018 - Umile's Last Stand - The Grand Finale

So sad. I remember watching Umile play — a tough, gritty, energized guy. He would have kicked his own butt over the way he has gone out,
 
I was told that he didn’t acknowledge the crowd at the end of the game. True?

Greg I can't speak for anyone else but I think most of the crowd had either left at that point or had made its way down to the boards to honor the team as they did a skate around...that was my bigger interest at that point...
 
Technically you may have been wrong Greg. But I think there is a big difference between finishing last in a seven team league in the mid-80's and finishing 11th in a league that now includes Vermont, Massachusetts Merrimack and UConn. Go back and look at some of the players that were in HockeyEast back then. Then factor in the WCHA element. (I mean Brett Hull played in Snively for chrisakes.) Not to mention that this has to be the weakest HE has been in years. Even though that 1988 team finished last (and only won 7 games) it had two players on the all rookie. As you say, things were looking up.

However to steven22's larger point - UNH did finish last THREE years in a row. So moving forward Chuck may very well be correct in that things get worse before they get better.

A friend of mine and I discussed this very topic this morning. An argument can be made that those 19 wins over three years teams were substantially better than what we saw this year. Back 30 years ago, many of the teams were loaded,,particularly the ones from the WCHA. North Dakota and Minnesota were practically pro teams. There were definitely no Bentleys or Armys on the schedule.

As to the larger point of how long will a rebuild take, it’s going to be a few years. The next two senior classes are no great shakes so any push the team gets will have to come from a combination of this year’s freshmen and the incoming classes. Souza has to have the mindset that we have no place to go but up and that the first step starts tomorrow. Of course, that first step will be the naming of an assistant. That will tell us how seriously he views his mission.
 
Re: UNH Wildcats 2017/2018 - Umile's Last Stand - The Grand Finale

Yes - worse than this season. This year's team stockpiled 9 wins up through virtually Thanksgiving or thereabouts. The team that's won one (1) game over the rest of the season - including that crème-filled passage on both sides of the Winter break - is going to be the one coming back next season, minus some decent players (others may admittedly fall into the "addition by subtraction" category), adding a whole lot of nondescript recruits (with one or two exceptions), and either a re-arranging of the deck chairs on the Titanic (please come back, EJ!!) OR more wholesale changes than anticipated in the coaching department - with a strong lean on the former over the latter.

Next year's team will (really) surprise me if they crack double-digit wins, to be completely frank.

No one should underestimate the challenges facing Coach Souza going forwards. It's that bad.

You've always been one shy of a shot glass half empty Chuck :eek: You have no clue how UNH is going to do next year or the year after or the year after that. None of us do! There are too many variables involved. Yeah you're entitled to your opinion, in fact, I enjoy your posts. You're more like a contrary indicator though. Year over year comparisons will be easier to improve upon IMHO. I'd be very surprised if results don't improve moving forward. Then again, I have no better insight than you do!
 
As to the larger point of how long will a rebuild take, it’s going to be a few years. The next two senior classes are no great shakes so any push the team gets will have to come from a combination of this year’s freshmen and the incoming classes. Souza has to have the mindset that we have no place to go but up and that the first step starts tomorrow. Of course, that first step will be the naming of an assistant. That will tell us how seriously he views his mission.

Since you reference next year's incoming class again - I'll echo Watcher's point and state that if next year's class is going to be a difference maker they better be adding a few more pieces that we don't yet know about. Because next year's class isn't going to make the difference as currently constituted. The best hope for improvement next season will be the current sophomore forwards - if the G improved, the D improves with age and experience then that sets the stage for Blackburn/BVR/Grasso to take massive leaps and lead the offense back to an above average unit. If they don't we're looking at more of the same...

For reference - and I'd love Watchers opinion on this - here's how I'd break down the incoming freshmen (more in terms of career production than style, though both are considered when applicable)...

Crookshank - Blackburn/Downing
Esposito - MacAdams
Cippolone - K. Smith/ Correale
Green - Chanter/Krates
Verrier - Dawson/Marks-lite
Taylor - Foster

Not exactly a game changing group...

The teams from the early Umile years got MUCH better immediate recruiting returns and still took years to get back to where they wanted to be. I'd be wary about putting too much stock in last seasons FR either - MacAdams is who he is. Charlie Kelleher can be better, certainly, but will never be Tyler. Gildon has one more year on campus and Maass is a candidate to leave with Wyse the following year - the current pipeline of D is not at their level...

Now is the time to hit the trail hard and aggressively and say again and again - you, elite prospect, take our full scholarship and be the guy immediately. That is the only way out of this mess...
 
If UNH/Souza is hungry for, and capable of, jumpstarting a rebuild immediately then next year's line-up will look something like this...

X - Blackburn - Grasso
Crookshank - X - Kelleher
BVR - Vela - Nazarian
Esposito - MacAdams - Fregona
Cippolone - Cefalu - Miller - Sato - Sacco

Gildon - Maass
Wyse - X
Green - Boyd
Dawson - Verrier

Taylor - Robinson
Lazzarro

And make no mistake for the woes is us, how can we compete for elite talent with the big boys lot - there are top forward possibilities (better than Crookshank) just sitting out there on the market. The same goes for D men with far more upside than either incoming frosh. So go get it...

Watcher is much more optimistic theyll move on those guys than I am - but he was right about moving on a goalie. Let's hope he's right again...

Do that and you're on the right track. Spend your money on more filler or hold pat and yes, the team could easily be worse or status quo next season - and more alarming would be what that said for the future of how they'd approach recruiting...
 
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If UNH/Souza is hungry for, and capable of, jumpstarting a rebuild immediately then next year's line-up will look something like this...

X - Blackburn - Grasso
Crookshank - X - Kelleher
BVR - Vela - Nazarian
Esposito - MacAdams - Fregona
Cippolone - Cefalu - Miller - Sato - Sacco

Gildon - Maass
Wyse - X
Green - Boyd
Dawson - Verrier

Taylor - Robinson
Lazzarro

And make no mistake for the woes is us, how can we compete for elite talent with the big boys lot - there are top forward possibilities (better than Crookshank) just sitting out there on the market. The same goes for D men with far more upside than either incoming frosh. So go get it...

Watcher is much more optimistic theyll move on those guys than I am - but he was right about moving on a goalie. Let's hope he's right again...

Do that and you're on the right track. Spend your money on more filler or hold pat and yes, the team could easily be worse or status quo next season - and more alarming would be what that said for the future of how they'd approach recruiting...

Okay Dan. Let me get this straight. If the variable X=Chippah(preferably BLUE) then Souza and UNH will jump start the rebuild immediately. Do I have that right? If so I'm down with that!
 
Re: UNH Wildcats 2017/2018 - Umile's Last Stand - The Grand Finale

here's how I'd break down the incoming freshmen (more in terms of career production than style, though both are considered when applicable)...

Crookshank - Blackburn/Downing
Esposito - MacAdams
Cippolone - K. Smith/ Correale
Green - Chanter/Krates
Verrier - Dawson/Marks-lite
Taylor - Foster

Not exactly a game changing group...

The teams from the early Umile years got MUCH better immediate recruiting returns and still took years to get back to where they wanted to be. I'd be wary about putting too much stock in last seasons FR either - MacAdams is who he is. Charlie Kelleher can be better, certainly, but will never be Tyler. Gildon has one more year on campus and Maass is a candidate to leave with Wyse the following year - the current pipeline of D is not at their level...

Crookshank has better skills than Blackburn -- gets around the ice, which is Liam's biggest problem. Blackburn will be productive, but needs guys whose skills he can play off. Production wise Angus will match Downing, but Downing was more two way than Crookshank, who is more of a darter, sneaky player.

Esposito will not match MacAdams. MacAdams has some decent puck skills and grit, while not consistent or top end, but could get to the second line as a nice complementary player. Esposito just is a *****stirrer, who will have goals off is skates, etc. while drawing and taking penalties. Fourth line, Third line tops.

Cipollone will not be Correale level. I'd say Chris Miller/Borisenok sort.

Green - I don't get him. Seems the typical "size" project, where scouts talk about his upside, separate from his puck skills. He was supposed to have offensive skills, but the only one I saw was a shot, and his skating was sub par, and I didn't see any real puck handling or distribution. Then I heard decent reports on his defense during last year's playoffs. The offensive has not deveoped at all, and I'm skeptical that his skating can allow him to be a top defender (Chanter?), so it's a low projection.

Verrier is actually a kid who had low projections, but put together his skating and offensive skills in prep, and now at GB. He'll never be a top pair kid, but his offense seems to be enough to get him onto the second pair.

Now is the time to hit the trail hard and aggressively and say again and again - you, elite prospect, take our full scholarship and be the guy immediately. That is the only way out of this mess...

I think the current group has given all it can. I assume that pitch has been out there for a while. Hopefully the Slovaks/Czechs are interested, and their TOEFL and transcripts are the holdup why we haven't heard anything. Seems odd to have that much money likely available and unused this late, unless there's that sort of thing with the kids they're after.
 
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Re: UNH Wildcats 2017/2018 - Umile's Last Stand - The Grand Finale

You've always been one shy of a shot glass half empty Chuck :eek: You have no clue how UNH is going to do next year or the year after or the year after that. None of us do! There are too many variables involved. Yeah you're entitled to your opinion, in fact, I enjoy your posts. You're more like a contrary indicator though. Year over year comparisons will be easier to improve upon IMHO. I'd be very surprised if results don't improve moving forward. Then again, I have no better insight than you do!

Okay Dan. Let me get this straight. If the variable X=Chippah(preferably BLUE) then Souza and UNH will jump start the rebuild immediately. Do I have that right? If so I'm down with that!

So ... I guess it's safe to say you're a "glass half full" optimistic sort then, eh e.cat? "Don't bother me with that reality bullcrap, just tell me how the good stuff might play out, and I'm down with that!" :p ;)

Just for the record, no one wants me to be wrong on this more than I do. Is it possible Souza could turn it around quickly, in ways that 'watcher, Dan and others have suggested? Sure, no doubt, possible. But ... probable? I look at the long-term downwards trajectory of the UNH Men's Hockey program - something I sounded the alarm on many years ago, when many on here were still fat and happy with annual trips to the D-1 tourney, albeit sliding gradually away from legitimate FF contenders - and perhaps more importantly, I look at the more precipitous drop the program has experienced over the last three years of "Souza in training". Combine that with the rather modest projections I see on here about the incoming class - which consists of Crookshank, Taylor and (arguably) a healthy Grasso - and I don't see the kind of dynamic talent either on hand or coming on board in enough quantity to turn this thing around. Yet.

Since I know we've had past similar discussions about UNH Football, and Coach McDonnell's transition period after the Coach Bowes era, let's draw parallels there. Coach Bowes was in charge for roughly the same amount of years as Coach Umile has been, and not unlike Umile's flight path, Bowes had a few down years at the start, and his last 3-4 years in charge were trending down as well (and it took McDonnell another 5 years to get it turned back around after that). When McDonnell (and key assistant Chip Kelly) adopted the spread offense we now see everywhere, it transformed the program back into consistent national contention. But it still took McDonnell/Kelly about 5 years to get upwards traction. Before that, it didn't look like they would bring the program back to its Bowes era level.

Unless Souza brings in someone (or something) dynamic (and soon) to make immediate positive impacts on the UNH Hockey program, it's hard for me to think we've even seen the program hitting bottom yet. The roster for next season is mostly cast in stone, although there are openings/money available, it will require Souza's staff to bring in multiple players at (or probably above) the levels of the Crookshanks and Maasses of the world to see an immediate impact. He hasn't done that yet ... and even when he has (Commesso), or when he hasn't been able to convince some of the Borek holdovers, and those have slipped through his fingers ... doesn't that make you ask questions on just how effective Souza or his current team are at selling his message effectively?

:confused:

As I said at the outset ... I want to be wrong about this. I wanted to be wrong about the gradual slide into oblivion over the last decade (plus?) too, but that turned out with where we see the program today, which is bottom of the league, and not by accident. And if it turns out that I'm wrong - like I was after 5 years into McDonnell's regime - I will only be too happy to admit I'm wrong. Certainly the current AD has a history of giving his coaches a lot of rope, and the scary thing (to me anyway) is that UNH Hockey could find itself in its current state of decay for another decade. Not a comforting thought, to say the least.

The next few steps will tell us a lot. How does Souza fill out his coaching staff for next year? Does he and his team have some quality recruits stashed until the coaching change officially takes place? And who will lead the team on-ice next season, and in seasons to follow?

There has been a talent shortage in recent years, no doubt. Watching the full replay of last night's debacle (which could have been 10-0 had Madigan not called off the dogs after the bizarre/pitiful Robinson "effort" on the recalled offsides goal) hints at the huge gap between UNH's talent at the top of this league. It's that stark, and shocking too. But I would say there may have been an even bigger leadership vacuum, both on and off the ice. And I have no idea if Souza or his staff even recognize this issue exists yet.

All of this, combined at once, and I think things get worse before they get better. JMHO.
 
Former UNH teammates Kacey Bellamy (USA) and Jen Wakefield (CAN) face-off for gold tonight at 11:10 ET. Wakefield played two years at UNH before transferring to BU - if you needed another reason to root for the US.

Bobby Butler and the men are done due to poor roster construction...

And, besides Kacey Bellamy being on the gold medal winning team, Blake Kessel's sister Amanda scored one of the three shoot-out goals?
 
So ... I guess it's safe to say you're a "glass half full" optimistic sort then, eh e.cat? "Don't bother me with that reality bullcrap, just tell me how the good stuff might play out, and I'm down with that!" :p ;)

Just for the record, no one wants me to be wrong on this more than I do. Is it possible Souza could turn it around quickly, in ways that 'watcher, Dan and others have suggested? Sure, no doubt, possible. But ... probable? I look at the long-term downwards trajectory of the UNH Men's Hockey program - something I sounded the alarm on many years ago, when many on here were still fat and happy with annual trips to the D-1 tourney, albeit sliding gradually away from legitimate FF contenders - and perhaps more importantly, I look at the more precipitous drop the program has experienced over the last three years of "Souza in training". Combine that with the rather modest projections I see on here about the incoming class - which consists of Crookshank, Taylor and (arguably) a healthy Grasso - and I don't see the kind of dynamic talent either on hand or coming on board in enough quantity to turn this thing around. Yet.

Since I know we've had past similar discussions about UNH Football, and Coach McDonnell's transition period after the Coach Bowes era, let's draw parallels there. Coach Bowes was in charge for roughly the same amount of years as Coach Umile has been, and not unlike Umile's flight path, Bowes had a few down years at the start, and his last 3-4 years in charge were trending down as well (and it took McDonnell another 5 years to get it turned back around after that). When McDonnell (and key assistant Chip Kelly) adopted the spread offense we now see everywhere, it transformed the program back into consistent national contention. But it still took McDonnell/Kelly about 5 years to get upwards traction. Before that, it didn't look like they would bring the program back to its Bowes era level.

Unless Souza brings in someone (or something) dynamic (and soon) to make immediate positive impacts on the UNH Hockey program, it's hard for me to think we've even seen the program hitting bottom yet. The roster for next season is mostly cast in stone, although there are openings/money available, it will require Souza's staff to bring in multiple players at (or probably above) the levels of the Crookshanks and Maasses of the world to see an immediate impact. He hasn't done that yet ... and even when he has (Commesso), or when he hasn't been able to convince some of the Borek holdovers, and those have slipped through his fingers ... doesn't that make you ask questions on just how effective Souza or his current team are at selling his message effectively?

:confused:

As I said at the outset ... I want to be wrong about this. I wanted to be wrong about the gradual slide into oblivion over the last decade (plus?) too, but that turned out with where we see the program today, which is bottom of the league, and not by accident. And if it turns out that I'm wrong - like I was after 5 years into McDonnell's regime - I will only be too happy to admit I'm wrong. Certainly the current AD has a history of giving his coaches a lot of rope, and the scary thing (to me anyway) is that UNH Hockey could find itself in its current state of decay for another decade. Not a comforting thought, to say the least.

The next few steps will tell us a lot. How does Souza fill out his coaching staff for next year? Does he and his team have some quality recruits stashed until the coaching change officially takes place? And who will lead the team on-ice next season, and in seasons to follow?

There has been a talent shortage in recent years, no doubt. Watching the full replay of last night's debacle (which could have been 10-0 had Madigan not called off the dogs after the bizarre/pitiful Robinson "effort" on the recalled offsides goal) hints at the huge gap between UNH's talent at the top of this league. It's that stark, and shocking too. But I would say there may have been an even bigger leadership vacuum, both on and off the ice. And I have no idea if Souza or his staff even recognize this issue exists yet.

All of this, combined at once, and I think things get worse before they get better. JMHO.

For the record, yes I am an optimist! So many issues not enough band width! So you predicted this decline? Of course you did. Even a broken clock is right twice a day. Give me a break! You're killin' me!
 
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