UNH Wildcats 2017/2018 - Umile's Last Stand - The Grand Finale

[chickod]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017/2018 - Umile's Last Stand - The Grand Finale

As far as the Beanpot goes, tell that to the NESN announcers; that's all they talk about!

Well, yes, because they are broadcasting the games so they have to promote them. Personally (as someone who went every year for years), I just have a difficult time going to ANY sporting event that has no atmosphere, enthusiasm, etc. I stopped going to high school football games five years ago. We used to have 10-12 thousand every year at the Thanksgiving game. This year was something like 1500. I'm not saying it's the same for everyone - just speaking for myself. You don't miss what you never knew. But for me, it just doesn't cut it. I will also admit that I am somewhat obsessed over this whole "attendance" thing and have a been a frequent contributor to all of the threads that discuss it.

The entire "dehumanization" of society with the "perfect" behavior and inability to look at someone the wrong way without being "castigated" has really soured my enthusiasm. I go to these games and watch people just sit on their hands. There was even one woman who brought a book to every game and sat there and read, never looking up once. The entire "antiseptic" nature of everything is disheartening. At BU now they have the "crowd police." Security people disguised as looking for "bad or offensive" language but it's really a euphemism for behavior control. No wonder people stay home. Nobody "cheers" anymore. They just politely clap - for about five seconds and then they stick their heads back into their phones.

I frequently mention that clip that (I think) C-H-C posted awhile ago of the UNH/RPI game when UNH scored three goals in just over a minute at Snively. The place went absolutely beserk. Just unbridled joy and enthusiasm. You never see that anymore. It's just really not any fun to go in today's environment. Society is changing, and NOT for the better. Pretty soon we will all be robotic, with chips implanted to control our "tendencies." I'm just thankful I grew up when I did because I don't think I want to see what things will be like in 25 years...

 

[Felger]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017/2018 - Umile's Last Stand - The Grand Finale

Take them away from their 'BeanPot Dreams' of playing for a Boston school? I had this same convo at the 'Whitt before a game with someone who felt that UNH just needs to attract these players away from the Boston schools.

Do yourself a favor. Stop listening to nitwits.

 

[Greg Ambrose]

Do yourself a favor. Stop listening to nitwits.

Not every Boston kid looks at the Beanpot as the be all, end all. UNH has plenty of guys over the years, including Umile, Ralph Cox, Bob Miller, Sean Collins, Steve Saviano, Bobby Butler, who gave a collective shrug about the Beanpot. And I say this being one who attended his first Beanpot in 1965 and has been to just about every one since (not this year or last unfortunately), the tournament has lost its luster. The four schools have more and more students who are not interested in the sport, the young alumni don’t stick around Boston and the older ones have lost interest. Old BC coach Snooks Kelly used to refer to the Beanpot as an “athletic and social must.” Not any more.

 

[HockeyRef]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017/2018 - Umile's Last Stand - The Grand Finale

Do yourself a favor. Stop listening to nitwits.

Sigh. Seriously...and, really wasn't listening to him...more to the story kind of thing.

 

[Dan]

The Beanpot is nothing more than a lame Governor's Cup knock-off...

 

[HockeyRef]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017/2018 - Umile's Last Stand - The Grand Finale

The Beanpot is nothing more than a lame Governor's Cup knock-off...

But man oh man, the compete level between those teams...that NU line...do we really have to play them two more times!!!

 

[chickod]

But man oh man, the compete level between those teams...that NU line...do we really have to play them two more times!!!

Especially when you take bad penalties and give them power plays all night!

 

[chickod]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017/2018 - Umile's Last Stand - The Grand Finale

Game over

 

[HockeyRef]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017/2018 - Umile's Last Stand - The Grand Finale

Game over

Pretty much!!! Go NU (did I really just say that..)

 

[chickod]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017/2018 - Umile's Last Stand - The Grand Finale

I don’t see how anyone can deny that Northeastern is the best team in Hockey East.

 

[HockeyRef]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017/2018 - Umile's Last Stand - The Grand Finale

I don’t see how anyone can deny that Northeastern is the best team in Hockey East.

Oh, totally agree...3 for 3 on the PP...that top line, great goal tending. (And did I say we have to play them two more times? Ya, I think I said that...)

 

[jeteye1717]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017/2018 - Umile's Last Stand - The Grand Finale

The program needs someone who's going to take chances. To me, the demise started when we got too cute, deferring kids for example. We need to get kids in here a year early and, assuming they can play, [award them] full rides. No money for fourth line muckers until they prove they've earned it. That's the way it was in the glory days.

I'd be on board with that strategy, but I fear that making such changes at UNH is akin to turning an ocean liner - you turn the wheel and it takes minutes/miles to see results. WANTING to take chances and actually having the resources and administrative backing to do so are not mutually inclusive. Which leads me to pose some basic questions that I've always wondered about:

How are recruiting parameters determined for a given school, i.e., what aspects are set in stone a priori by the NCAA vs. leeway afforded each individual school? For example, does the NCAA impose an upper limit on each school's recruiting budget? Or is it The Sky's the Limit, reined in only by how much each school is willing to spend? If it's the latter, is the recruiting budget typically limited by the AD, or is it more common that, say, the Hockey Coach is given a yearly budget and is then free to allocate however much $$ he feels is necessary from that number to meet his needs, while still leaving $$ for sticks, travel, etc. Recruiting in the BCHL, NAHL (or Europe for that matter) is obviously more expensive (travel, lodging, etc.) than scouting Eastern Mass tournaments; is Scarano willing to significantly augment the men's hockey budget to give UNH a chance to be more of a presence far from Durham?

I guess what I'm looking for is some sense of how much freedom Souza will actually have in charting a new course for UNH recruiting. $$ will obviously be the overriding constraint, but Admissions is no less important! If kids accelerate their studies to come in a year early as Greg wants, what role should Admissions play to ensure that their accelerated course load meets UNH standards? Can/do coaches typically run such things by Admissions all throughout the recruiting process, or does Admissions only get involved late in the game? I'd hope that one of the first people Souza's new guy meets is the Director of Admissions, and that everyone is crystal clear re: what is/is not acceptable when recruiting 14 and 15 year old kids whose academic profiles may change dramatically before they ever set foot in Durham. Take a chance on some youngsters, monitor their hockey/academic progress closely, and bring 'em in as soon as they pass Admissions muster. Practicing with the upperclassmen every day, learning the UNH system/work habits of their teammates, and getting a leg up on their studies is far preferable in my book than bussing around the upper Midwest for days on end just for the sake of a roster imbalance in Durham. I hope Souza has kept his eyes/ears open while apprenticing with Umile these past 3 years, and is now ready to jettison the failed old ways and embark on a new path. Einstein was right: repeating the same thing over & over and expecting different results is the definition of insanity (or hockey mediocrity) ...

 

[Chuck Murray]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017/2018 - Umile's Last Stand - The Grand Finale

Personally (as someone who went every year for years), I just have a difficult time going to ANY sporting event that has no atmosphere, enthusiasm, etc. I stopped going to high school football games five years ago. We used to have 10-12 thousand every year at the Thanksgiving game. This year was something like 1500. I'm not saying it's the same for everyone - just speaking for myself. You don't miss what you never knew. But for me, it just doesn't cut it. I will also admit that I am somewhat obsessed over this whole "attendance" thing and have a been a frequent contributor to all of the threads that discuss it.

The entire "dehumanization" of society with the "perfect" behavior and inability to look at someone the wrong way without being "castigated" has really soured my enthusiasm. I go to these games and watch people just sit on their hands. There was even one woman who brought a book to every game and sat there and read, never looking up once. The entire "antiseptic" nature of everything is disheartening. At BU now they have the "crowd police." Security people disguised as looking for "bad or offensive" language but it's really a euphemism for behavior control. No wonder people stay home. Nobody "cheers" anymore. They just politely clap - for about five seconds and then they stick their heads back into their phones.

I frequently mention that clip that (I think) C-H-C posted awhile ago of the UNH/RPI game when UNH scored three goals in just over a minute at Snively. The place went absolutely beserk. Just unbridled joy and enthusiasm. You never see that anymore. It's just really not any fun to go in today's environment. Society is changing, and NOT for the better. Pretty soon we will all be robotic, with chips implanted to control our "tendencies." I'm just thankful I grew up when I did because I don't think I want to see what things will be like in 25 years...

Until this very evening, I never realized I had been separated at birth from a twin brother.

 

[Dan]

I'd be on board with that strategy, but I fear that making such changes at UNH is akin to turning an ocean liner - you turn the wheel and it takes minutes/miles to see results. WANTING to take chances and actually having the resources and administrative backing to do so are not mutually inclusive. Which leads me to pose some basic questions that I've always wondered about:

How are recruiting parameters determined for a given school, i.e., what aspects are set in stone a priori by the NCAA vs. leeway afforded each individual school? For example, does the NCAA impose an upper limit on each school's recruiting budget? Or is it The Sky's the Limit, reined in only by how much each school is willing to spend? If it's the latter, is the recruiting budget typically limited by the AD, or is it more common that, say, the Hockey Coach is given a yearly budget and is then free to allocate however much $$ he feels is necessary from that number to meet his needs, while still leaving $$ for sticks, travel, etc. Recruiting in the BCHL, NAHL (or Europe for that matter) is obviously more expensive (travel, lodging, etc.) than scouting Eastern Mass tournaments; is Scarano willing to significantly augment the men's hockey budget to give UNH a chance to be more of a presence far from Durham?

I guess what I'm looking for is some sense of how much freedom Souza will actually have in charting a new course for UNH recruiting. $$ will obviously be the overriding constraint, but Admissions is no less important! If kids accelerate their studies to come in a year early as Greg wants, what role should Admissions play to ensure that their accelerated course load meets UNH standards? Can/do coaches typically run such things by Admissions all throughout the recruiting process, or does Admissions only get involved late in the game? I'd hope that one of the first people Souza's new guy meets is the Director of Admissions, and that everyone is crystal clear re: what is/is not acceptable when recruiting 14 and 15 year old kids whose academic profiles may change dramatically before they ever set foot in Durham. Take a chance on some youngsters, monitor their hockey/academic progress closely, and bring 'em in as soon as they pass Admissions muster. Practicing with the upperclassmen every day, learning the UNH system/work habits of their teammates, and getting a leg up on their studies is far preferable in my book than bussing around the upper Midwest for days on end just for the sake of a roster imbalance in Durham. I hope Souza has kept his eyes/ears open while apprenticing with Umile these past 3 years, and is now ready to jettison the failed old ways and embark on a new path. Einstein was right: repeating the same thing over & over and expecting different results is the definition of insanity (or hockey mediocrity) ...

The NCAA establishes recruiting restrictions in an effort to level the playing field and take budget concerns out of recruiting (as well as when recruiting can occur). In Softball it's 50 recruiting days a year. In Hockey and most other sports you are allowed 7 recruiting opportunities per player - this includes evaluations as well as on- and off-campus contacts. So Michigan is not allowed better access because they can afford more trips than UNH.

https://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/June2016_DIOtherSportsRecruitingGuide_20160613.pdf

Budgets are established by individual universities - usually as you hypothesized, where a coach is given a budget and then allocates funds as they wish. UNH has never had issues funding trips throughout N. America to my knowledge. If that ever was the case, that would be reason to point fingers at the AD - but I don't believe it is a problem.

To Greg's point about bringing kids early - I agree, but early usually means as a true freshmen instead of being deferred or playing extra seasons in JR hockey (or even 19 instead of 20). That's the reality of hockey recruiting these days. So accelerating studies really wouldn't be a factor.

You are 100% correct that Souza, the new hire and the entire staff need to communicate with - and be on the same page as - admissions. This will allow them to work through the process long before kids arrive on campus. Not doing this is what kept them unaware of UNHs foreign language requirements and cost them White, Reid, O'Neil and (after already being burned years earlier) Masonious. It was extremely neglectful and they're still paying for it. Every school I've ever been at has established this relationship, which is why the fingers should be pointed at the staff and not admissions. If UNH and UNH hockey have not set up this relationship it is a GLARING over site. They cannot afford any more mistakes...

So worry not - UNH is on an even playing field and controls its own recruiting destiny. It comes down to how hard they work, how skilled they are at recruiting and their attention to detail. All controllables...

 

[FredsDeadFriend]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017/2018 - Umile's Last Stand - The Grand Finale

Wow, you guys impress me. As a Western hockey fan, I've never cared about, or liked Eastern hockey. But as I get older, I've become wiser, and learned that you do not need to like your opponent to respect them. So I'll never like Eastern hockey, but I can totally respect Eastern hockey, or at least UNH hockey. I've been kind of wondering whats been up with UNH? I noticed UNH disappeared from the FF about the same time the Gophers did.

Where have you been guys?


I think I understand why the Gophers disappeared, but why did UNH? I'd be very appreciative if one of your very intellectual fans gave me a brief synopsis of what happened?

 

[Darius]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017/2018 - Umile's Last Stand - The Grand Finale

So worry not - UNH is on an even playing field and controls its own recruiting destiny. It comes down to how hard they work, how skilled they are at recruiting and their attention to detail. All controllables...

What about a wealthy alum providing the use of his private jet to say, Jerry York?

 

[Dan]

What about a wealthy alum providing the use of his private jet to say, Jerry York?

No style points for recruiting. If UNH coaches aren't willing to recruit because they have to fly coach like schmoos that would be their problem - not a recruiting imbalance...

It comes down to what type of effort are you willing to invest in the MOST important aspect of your job...

 

[Darius]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017/2018 - Umile's Last Stand - The Grand Finale

No style points for recruiting. If UNH coaches aren't willing to recruit because they have to fly coach like schmoos that would be their problem - not a recruiting imbalance...

It comes down to what type of effort are you willing to invest in the MOST important aspect of your job...

Not style. $$$ and timing. I recall a story a few years back where a player become available last minute and York was in his living room across the country in a few hours, back on campus a few hours after that. No worries about flight schedules, cost, coach's time. I am not making excuses, simply wondering if a school's wealth is a factor.

 

[Dan]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017/2018 - Umile's Last Stand - The Grand Finale

Not style. $$$ and timing. I recall a story a few years back where a player become available last minute and York was in his living room across the country in a few hours, back on campus a few hours after that. No worries about flight schedules, cost, coach's time. I am not making excuses, simply wondering if a school's wealth is a factor.

Yes, more money and private jets would make recruiting easier. But reality is that without a private jet, Jerry York would have hitchhiked out to meet that recruit if he had to - because he has always been willing to do what is necessary. Meanwhile, UNH would have thrown up there hands and said, "woe is us - we cant find a convenient flight time and there are only middle seats left!"

Attitude, belief and (perhaps) effort is what is missing in UNH recruiting right now. Get on a plane and fly coach. Spend a day or two away from the team. Find a way. The bottom line is this - if you can only recruit when things are easy, comfortable and convenient than you cannot recruit.

I used to coach on the East Coast. I flew to SoCal six times a year to recruit in the best recruiting grounds in the country. The local schools drove up the block for club tournaments and had HS access all year round. It was what it was and you went to work...

 

[Dan]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017/2018 - Umile's Last Stand - The Grand Finale

Wow, you guys impress me. As a Western hockey fan, I've never cared about, or liked Eastern hockey. But as I get older, I've become wiser, and learned that you do not need to like your opponent to respect them. So I'll never like Eastern hockey, but I can totally respect Eastern hockey, or at least UNH hockey. I've been kind of wondering whats been up with UNH? I noticed UNH disappeared from the FF about the same time the Gophers did.

Where have you been guys?


I think I understand why the Gophers disappeared, but why did UNH? I'd be very appreciative if one of your very intellectual fans gave me a brief synopsis of what happened?

I posted this synopsis in the previous (now closed) UNH thread...

Greg - I'll go out on a limb and say recruiting would have been better if they had made those three Frozen Fours. Especially if they had won one. They were all frustrating. I'd rank the ND loss as the worst - that team was stacked. If they get past BU the next year, they wipe out Vermont and probably clinch ab national title for Miami...

Here is the problem with looking at recruiting that way. They already had the next great recruiting class lines up - even without those FFs.

The 2009 recruiting class was supposed to be Ryan Bourque, Matt White, Cam Reid, Greg Burke, John Henrion, Brett Kostolansky and Connor Hardowa.

Unfortunately, they lost track of their recruits transcript progress and White and Reid were rejected by admissions (instead of taking a foreign language credit - they were so turned off they went back to juniors and committed to other colleges). Shortly after his buddy White was shown the door, Bourque bounced to major juniors and neither Burke and Henrion ever met expectations.

To make up for losing their star trio UNH brought in Austin Block, Scott Pavelski and Dalton Speelman. That really says it all. By to compound the problem they had to scramble going forward - Goumas and Sorkin had to come a year early and they had to fill holes with guys like Jeff Silengo. It hurt their classes for two consecutive years substantially. As a result the 2011-12 team went 15-19-3...

Around the same time (09) UNH was hit with recruiting probation due to Borek's email infraction. Who knows how many prospects they were barred from recruiting as a result of which high-end kids they had their sites on and lost. Whoever they missed out on, they were undoubtedly better than the prospects they turned to. The two classes that were really impacted by this infraction turned into the following...

2011 - Downing, DeSmith, TVR, Camper, Willows, Thrush
2012 - Correalle, Gaidreault, MacDonald, Smith, Pesce, Quast

...and UNH has never recovered. Downing was in the fold long prior to the probation. I remember watching him play with Reid in Surrey prior to the infraction or admissions issues. DeSmith I believe was too. And TVR Was a legacy.

Those two recruiting mistakes, the subsequent losses buried UNH and made recruiting much more difficult. I'm not sure a few more FF even delay the results we've seen. They simply give us a few more memories of the good times. Borek was always a good recruiter to a front runner. But once the wins slipped, so did his results. They needed a dynamic recruiter and visionary to get them back on track back then and they need the same thing now...

In retrospect they shot themselves in the foot badly! These were all self-inflicted mistakes. Combined with the Laleggia, Vecchione incidencts and whiffing on guys like Kalinowski, etc and what an you say. It's a **** shame, but they've brought it on themselves. All under Umile's inattentive (to recruiting) eye...

Bottom line - UNH made three major (and consistent) recruiting mistakes. These recruiting mistakes cost UNH a lot of wins and winning seasons. Missing on these players and replacing them with lesser talent led to losing seasons. When they lost games, they lost their recruiting magic. Add on a number of administrative mistakes, mistreatment of loyal, season ticket holders, failure to market the program and a respected coach who hung on well past his prime UNH's decline was inevitable and the question now is when and if they ever recover. To recap the major recruiting mistakes with more insight into the impact they had (production)...

• UNH consistently failed to monitor its recruits transcripts to ensure that they had the necessary core requirement courses to gain entry to UNH. This mistake cost them three forwards in one class, a talented defenseman and has continued to bite them in recent years. The forwards they lost were Matt White (47-52--99, 2 yrs @ Omaha), Cam Reid (14-30--44, 1.5 yrs @ SCSU) and Ryan Bourque (45-57--102, 2 yrs @ QMJHL). They also lost defenseman Will O'Neill (19-82-101, 4 yrs @ Maine). In recent years this mistake has cost them defenseman Joe Masonious (10-38-48, 2.5 yrs @ UConn). In all cases, the late replacements they were forced to bring in were not near the same level.

• Former assistant coach Scott Borek's email recruiting violation led to self-imposed punishments by UNH. These punishments included voluntarily withdrawing from the recruitment of any recruit who received an email in violation of NCAA rules. As a result, UNH lost access to an unknown number of top-recruits and targets. The late replacements they were forced to bring in were not near the same level.

• UNH fell into a habit of deferring some of its best recruits to make space for lesser players who were aging out of juniors or already on the roster. Most notably, this cost UNH defenseman Joey Laleggia (49-83-132, 4 yrs @ Denver) and forward Mike Vecchione (71-105--176, 4 yrs @ Union). The late replacements they were forced to bring in were not near the same level. They have not necessarily learned from this mistake, as they have recently deferred Andrew Poturalski, Liam Blackburn and Patrick Grasso among others. Instead, they've gotten cute and manipulative signing players to NLI's and then deferring them through an unintended loop-hole. The real solution should just be to bring talent to the roster ASAP and stop deferring to role players...

All told, UNH's self-inflicted wounds have cost themselves seven, high-end, talents that we know of (Just those seven players combined for 255 Goals, 444 Assists and 699 points). Additionally they lost out on an unknown number of elite recruits who would have come to UNH if not for the email scandal and who knows what recruiting would have looked like the last few years if they were still winning. The only thing they can do now is learn, work harder and get better. We'll see...