UNH Wildcats 2016-17 -- We're Going to Have a Hockey Season Here!!

[Chuck Murray]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 -- We're Going to Have a Hockey Season Here!!

Slight variant, from the other side of the equation.

Aaahhh ... gotcha.

 

[Greg Ambrose]

He's at least Saviano, closer to collins.

Not even close.

 

[Greg Ambrose]

I'd argue Kelleher - while not the cream of the crop - IS one of the elite forward talents in UNH history. He's going to push 150 career points. No small feat in this era of college hockey, with this era of UNH teammates and after being banished to a fourth line role as a freshman by a coach who will remain nameless...

Imagine what he would have done offensively if he played with scorers like Haydar, Collins or Hemingway or alongside fellow burners like Saviano or Bogey. Comparing him to guys like Sadowski, Shipulski, Willows or Sorkin etc is insulting. Some in this thread make it sound like he's a poor mans Johnny Rogers...

He was among the top national scorers last season playing on a two man line (team?)...

I find it ridiculous when people argue they'd rather have or prefer the inferior player who exceeds his low ceiling by 10% than the superior talent who may not meet sky high expectations, ignoring the fact that 95% of the second players potential is still double that of the former...


This is what leads to post season discussion that vilifies a Poturalski and anoints a Chris Miller. It's silly...

The discussion was whether he was the equivalent of Mark Mowers, not John Sadowski.

 

[Snively65]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 -- We're Going to Have a Hockey Season Here!!

This coming weekend

UNH; UMass; Merrimack
Team O: 36th, 2.75; 22nd, 3.33; 46th, 2.20
Team D: 48th, 4.50; tie24th, 3.00; tie24th, 3.00
PP: 42nd, 3-27, 11.11; 53rd, 2-15, 8.00; 49th, 4-43, 9.30
PK: 38th, 18-22, 81.8; 18th, 21-24, 87.5; 22nd, 32-37, 86.5
Pmin: 44th, 26-52, 13.0; tie13th, 44-99, 19.80; 21st, 26-52, 17.33
SHG: 1, 0, 1
GAA: Tirone, 1-2-0, 3.74 GAA, 0.876 Sv%; Wischow, 2-0-0, 2.37, 0.923; Vogler, 2-2-0, 2.67, 0.911
No SOG

“Just trying to help”

 

[CatsFan1983]

Okay, I've been going back and forth on whether to post this, but given the paroxysms of agony being expressed here, I'm going to throw it out there, as a FWIW. I have zero intention of engaging in a debate about the quality of the source or the veracity of what was shared. I'll (as Watcher did recently), simply put it out here in the threadosphere for consumption.

About three weeks back, i was at an event in Durham and had a chance run-in with somebody apparently pretty "in the know" with our athletic department. I didn't really take anything too seriously until our beloved Coach Bowes made a beeline for this person, interrupting our conversation for a bit. I figured that maybe this would be somebody with some answers, or at the very least, a perspective on what the he\_\_ is going on.

I pounced on the chance to ask a few questions (got borderline uncomfortable a couple times), and here's what I heard....

1. The three-year out was very much a product of a settlement negotiated by the athletic department. WhenI asked why we had this silly transition, I got a look like I had three heads. This person simply said, "Umile did NOT want to go". While this person didn't say the negotiations were acrimonious or anything, it seems clear that this department that some will say has been fiddling while Rome burns has actually had a proactive, while perhaps not overly effective, hand in the exit, in the face of a lifetime contract.

2. More interestingly, (and this is where I think I pushed too far in my questions), it sounds like there may be some efforts underway to ensure that Sonar doesn't have to wait until 2018 to return to the Whitt. That Chuck's "March to 600" may not actually have the necessary runway to be seen through to completion. Perhaps this is what was meant by "interesting times", and "things happening behind the curtain, from Scarano's preseason interview. Don't know. I guess we'll see, and I know I have fingers crossed.

I'm simply trying to relay a conversation, not trying to get too deep into conjecture here. I think those that have seen me post know that I prefer facts vs. creating narratives just to try to prove a point. That stated, I will throw one thought out there - IF above are true, I wonder if that has led to some acrimony twixt the department and the program, and has caused some of the lack of attention.

Again, I have no interest in a debate here - just sharing the unedited facts from a conversation. And I kind of wish that someone like 1932 were still around to provide perspective on what I heard. I wonder if we are too quick to jump on some posters because they don't adhere to the prevailing narrative - that's particularly unfortunate when it happens to be someone who appears to have access that none of us do.

This is interesting to say the least...but not surprising at all. From what I know, behind the scenes there are things that Souza wants to change (lots of little things that go on from day to day within the program, maybe more ) but he hasn't been able to because DU isn't open to it. There aren't issues between the two by any means, MS is just in a spot where he "needs to "wait his turn".

 

[Dan]

The discussion was whether he was the equivalent of Mark Mowers, not John Sadowski.

No, that was your argument - and while I think you were quite harsh, not on the Mowers comparison but in your critique of Kelleher, who could argue. In the Unile era who was better than Mowers? I'd argue only Krog and Haydar and believe that Mower's arrival (with apologies to so many great forwards of that era) was the final/key piece and the ignition that elevated UNH to its long run of success.

The discussion devolved into a strong criticism of Kelleher and my response was directed at the overall tone of the thread and no one in particular. Kelleher was called Shipulski-lite, described as an energy forward, slotted in as a running mate for Sadowski and called out for not cracking the Goumas/Sorkin/Willows line. All of THOSE positions are ridiculous...

Shipulski (81 pts - Chuck) and Sadowski combined to crack 20 points twice in their careers. Kelleher is headed towards besting 40 for the third straight year and has played with a grand total of three forwards in his career that would even crack the periphery of this discussion.

As a young player - he would have played third line behind the '97 top-six but not in an energy role. THIS is the problem UNH has now - since when does UNH do third line energy guys? Let alone on top lines like Kellehers current mates.

I remember a day when young talented kids like Kelleher played behind a Mowers and then inherited his role without missing a beat. UNH has had talent recently - just no where near enough.

Kelleher would approach 200 points playing in that era - how you'd stack him up with those guys is up to each one of us individually. I really don't care, because they're all outstanding. Period.

Kelleher is a top six forward (likely top three) on any team in the country over each of the last three years. Lest we also forget that he led the NTDP in scoring over his career in Ann Arbor...

Yes, Chuck - while typing "Poturalski criticism" you DID come to mind. My overall point re: Poturalski/Miller, however, addressed a personal pet peeve across all fan bases. Miller has certainly gotten high acclaim from many on this board who believe he fits a top six role. And that is largely because he had a solid first year when most of us thought he'd see little ice at all. It's phenomenon that I just dislike and at UNH dates back from Poturalski to JVR to Hemingway, Brett and likely even back to the days when many of you guys were already old and i was not yet alive!!

Perhaps someday we will get back to a top-six, a developing third line of studs and a FOURTH line for energy. Unfortunately it will be quite a while because I don't believe the answer is currently on our bench and Dick seems dead set on returning the program in the same manner in which he found it. It's a hockey program Dick, not a rental car...

 

[Snively65]

This coming weekend

UNH; UMass; Merrimack
Team O: 36th, 2.75; 22nd, 3.33; 46th, 2.20
Team D: 48th, 4.50; tie24th, 3.00; tie24th, 3.00
PP: 42nd, 3-27, 11.11; 53rd, 2-15, 8.00; 49th, 4-43, 9.30
PK: 38th, 18-22, 81.8; 18th, 21-24, 87.5; 22nd, 32-37, 86.5
Pmin: 44th, 26-52, 13.0; tie13th, 44-99, 19.80; 21st, 26-52, 17.33
SHG: 1, 0, 1
GAA: Tirone, 1-2-0, 3.74 GAA, 0.876 Sv%; Wischow, 2-0-0, 2.37, 0.923; Vogler, 2-2-0, 2.67, 0.911
No SOG

“Just trying to help”

Need to recalculate after tonight; apparently UMass and Mac not cupcakes, like Bentley and CC.

 

[Chuck Murray]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 -- We're Going to Have a Hockey Season Here!!

Need to recalculate after tonight; apparently UMass and Mac not cupcakes, like Bentley and CC.

Merrimack: Two wins were against winless Colgate; lost at Clarkson and uber-cupcake Sacred Heart at home
UMass: Split with Colorado College at home, other win against uber-cupcake Army 3-2 at home

Yup, they're still very beatable cupcake opponents. Time for UNH to get their hangry on!!

P.S. to Dan - the following was clever. Ironically, I've gotta pick up a rental later this morning, and I'll report back if there is a DU sighting at the local Enterprise branch

... Dick seems dead set on returning the program in the same manner in which he found it. It's a hockey program Dick, not a rental car...

 

[Chuck Murray]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 -- We're Going to Have a Hockey Season Here!!

This is interesting to say the least...but not surprising at all. From what I know, behind the scenes there are things that Souza wants to change (lots of little things that go on from day to day within the program, maybe more �&#56832 but he hasn't been able to because DU isn't open to it. There aren't issues between the two by any means, MS is just in a spot where he "needs to "wait his turn".

If DU has had any say in this process - and I think most of us believe he has, courtesy of the "negotiations" that got him off his lifetime contract at last - it's pretty disappointing and selfish of him if he's not allowing MS to gradually introduce some tweaks to the program during the three year run-up. It's not like they're coaching a Top Ten program at this point, or even threatening to enter the polls or generate a tourney-worthy PWR. So the methodology can't be viewed and treated like it's untouchable ... yet apparently it is?



I've had a lot of contrasting takes on DU over the years ... but DU as a coaching diva? Now that's a first ...

 

[HockeyRef]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 -- We're Going to Have a Hockey Season Here!!

Glad to read the TyK validation Dan (I know the S-G-W line ref was ridiculous because as you have said in a few occasions TyK's talent was largely under umilized er utilized in his first couple of seasons?)!!

PS

Snively65 has a point about 'Mack they managed to stymie the Beagles er Eagles with a "relentless forecheck" according to Mike McMahon's blog and we don't handle traps or other sundry pressure that well sooooo....not sure they have the cupcake status they once may have had (and I get nausea when I think or allow myself to think about last season's ending).

 

[E.J. Smith]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 -- We're Going to Have a Hockey Season Here!!

If DU has had any say in this process - and I think most of us believe he has, courtesy of the "negotiations" that got him off his lifetime contract at last - it's pretty disappointing and selfish of him if he's not allowing MS to gradually introduce some tweaks to the program during the three year run-up. It's not like they're coaching a Top Ten program at this point, or even threatening to enter the polls or generate a tourney-worthy PWR. So the methodology can't be viewed and treated like it's untouchable ... yet apparently it is?



I've had a lot of contrasting takes on DU over the years ... but DU as a coaching diva? Now that's a first ...

It’s funny that it seems we, or at least I, are learning new things about DU after all these years.

• I knew he had a lifetime contract but I didn’t think he was taking that literally. As in he was coach until he actually died, no matter when that might be. Seems like maybe that was where he wanted to take this.
• Someone earlier mentioned that DU seems to be intent on giving the program back in the same condition he found it. After all we’ve heard about how he bleeds blue and all that, to even entertain that thought is odd. I still find it hard to believe, but not unbelievable. He might just be bitter or vindictive enough to do that.
• Not allowing MS to make any tweaks is completely unsurprising but it does just further prove we were right to be concerned by his inflexibility back in the day. Not adjusting his recruiting or coaching philosophies, or his personal style of interaction with the players, or adjusting for specific opponents, or specific game situations. Just a completely rigid, there is only one way to do things mindset that has probably been his biggest shortcoming as a coach over the years. He’s clearly going to ride that right into the ground.

 

[Snively65]

Merrimack: Two wins were against winless Colgate; lost at Clarkson and uber-cupcake Sacred Heart at home
UMass: Split with Colorado College at home, other win against uber-cupcake Army 3-2 at home

Yup, they're still very beatable cupcake opponents. Time for UNH to get their hangry on!!

P.S. to Dan - the following was clever. Ironically, I've gotta pick up a rental later this morning, and I'll report back if there is a DU sighting at the local Enterprise branch

... Dick seems dead set on returning the program in the same manner in which he found it. It's a hockey program Dick, not a rental car...

But, UMass at least split with 4C, whereas we lost to 4C in the game that I saw last Saturday night. And, last night UMass almost took down last year's NCAA Runner Up.

And, last night Mac tied last year's FF team BC.

UNH will need to score within the first couple of shifts in both games this weekend, as otherwise the Cats will be skating in a world of hurt against these former cupcakes.

 

[E.J. Smith]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 -- We're Going to Have a Hockey Season Here!!

It’s funny that it seems we, or at least I, are learning new things about DU after all these years.

• I knew he had a lifetime contract but I didn’t think he was taking that literally. As in he was coach until he actually died, no matter when that might be. Seems like maybe that was where he wanted to take this.
• Someone earlier mentioned that DU seems to be intent on giving the program back in the same condition he found it. After all we’ve heard about how he bleeds blue and all that, to even entertain that thought is odd. I still find it hard to believe, but not unbelievable. He might just be bitter or vindictive enough to do that.
• Not allowing MS to make any tweaks is completely unsurprising but it does just further prove we were right to be concerned by his inflexibility back in the day. Not adjusting his recruiting or coaching philosophies, or his personal style of interaction with the players, or adjusting for specific opponents, or specific game situations. Just a completely rigid, there is only one way to do things mindset that has probably been his biggest shortcoming as a coach over the years. He’s clearly going to ride that right into the ground.

Sort of an extension of that last point.

The guy seems to have no feel whatsoever for context or cause and effect. MS wants to make some tweaks. He's the anointed successor, you're on the way out, and the team is awful. Why not? Just simply, why not? Again with the rigidity and inflexibility for no reason and based on nothing positive your set ways are giving you.

Who knows what the tweaks are, maybe it's something crazy like picking the lines out of a hat. But what if it's something like moving practices to 7:00 PM to better replicate game conditions? But DU doesn't want to do it because it cuts into his me time in downtown Portsmouth? Who knows, but my guess is it's reasonable enough to be worth a try.

But no. Just no.

 

[Greg Ambrose]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 -- We're Going to Have a Hockey Season Here!!

I wonder whether he has fully formed a sense of his independent vision for the future. Hopefully the adolescent rebellion hinted at in the past posts show some growth of a vision of the future he can sell -- I could imagine showing a recruit around while interjecting about the good old days (often before the recruit was born) is not what the recruit cares about. Who are you Mike Souza; do you have a drive to win that I think you can bring in lots of other talented kids with me to showcase my skills to the pros? Stop yammering about the glory days Grandpa and you shared in 1999.

I guess we're back to psychoanalyzing Umile and Souza again. Mike Souza graduated from UNH in 2000, which means he is probably 36 years old. He has played professional hockey in the US and Europe and has been an assistant coach at two Division 1 programs. And, btw, he's married with a couple of kids. But here we are mocking the guy, implying that he is tied to that ogre Dick Umile's figurative apron strings and does not have the gumption to say boo while the master is still around. All I can say is that at least the discussion has advanced to the point where we no longer assume that Umile is Souza's uncle. And, btw, just about every college athletic program highlights the history of the sport at their school. I see nothing wrong with bringing to the attention of a recruit that there was once a time when UNH Hockey was not only relevant nationwide but right on the campus in Durham. And that the goal is to bring that kind of glory back to the school. Better to have something to talk about than nothing at all.

And btw Dan, if Tyler Kelleher had played in the late nineties or early aughts, to reach the point totals you envision he would have to give up the puck once in awhile. A great player plays to make those around him better.

 

[NCAA watcher]

Greg
I'm not sure I'm wrong but it isn't worth bogging this down with my thoughts so I'll delete them. Save those for the cocktail parties if I find any UNH fans -- my wife's side of the family is BC and Notre Dame.

 

[Dan]

And btw Dan, if Tyler Kelleher had played in the late nineties or early aughts, to reach the point totals you envision he would have to give up the puck once in awhile. A great player plays to make those around him better.

I can't say I've thought this to be an issue over the course of his career - he has a chance to finish his career with 100+ assists and in the top ten all-time at UNH.

Is this something you've always seen in Kelleher or has it become more of an issue this year - trying to do too much while playing with an offensively limited Salvaggio and a still relatively inexperienced Nazarian??

 

[Snively65]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 -- We're Going to Have a Hockey Season Here!!

I can't say I've thought this to be an issue over the course of his career - he has a chance to finish his career with 100+ assists and in the top ten all-time at UNH.

Is this something you've always seen in Kelleher or has it become more of an issue this year - trying to do too much while playing with an offensively limited Salvaggio and a still relatively inexperienced Nazarian??

Exactly. Salvaggio and Nazarian need to get themselves open to make Tyk great with assists again. Spread out!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBcIWhEUbPY

 

[Chuck Murray]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 -- We're Going to Have a Hockey Season Here!!

Sort of an extension of that last point.

The guy seems to have no feel whatsoever for context or cause and effect. MS wants to make some tweaks. He's the anointed successor, you're on the way out, and the team is awful. Why not? Just simply, why not? Again with the rigidity and inflexibility for no reason and based on nothing positive your set ways are giving you.

Who knows what the tweaks are, maybe it's something crazy like picking the lines out of a hat. But what if it's something like moving practices to 7:00 PM to better replicate game conditions? But DU doesn't want to do it because it cuts into his me time in downtown Portsmouth? Who knows, but my guess is it's reasonable enough to be worth a try.

But no. Just no.

OK so now this is getting weird. After Dan's comments earlier, I was expecting to see DU at the local rental car branch (no luck BTW). Now I've gotta look out for DU on weekday evenings in Portsmouth? I mean, I'm outta town for a couple of days, so it's not like I'll bump into him any time soon ... but I thought Molly Malone's closed about a decade ago, and assumed DU had moved on to a new watering hole out of town, or down in Melrose. So ... DU at RiRa's catching up on Champions League footy? The Coat of Arms?? The Thirsty Moose???



Inquiring minds need to know ...

 

[After the Whistle]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 -- We're Going to Have a Hockey Season Here!!

Exactly. Salvaggio and Nazarian need to get themselves open to make Tyk great with assists again. Spread out!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBcIWhEUbPY

Not sure how this all got started. TK is a legit UNH star, period. Was Williams better than..... Bottom line, it is all about who you play with. I believe that this line has suffered from something that no one is talking about. The 2016 YEAR of the PENALTY! We have not played a game (nor has anyone else) where at least 30+/- minutes have not been special team "ice time". What does this do - it means that you are juggling most of your better players around to have the best PP or Pk that you can have. And when they are over it often takes 2 or 3 shifts to get the rotation back. My point is that this line, and the others, have not had the benefit of the amount of paying time that might produce better chemistry.
This is not a deep team nor a typical junior/senior led team. It may not be pretty but it will improve and I'm going to all the game regardless. And perhaps you are not, and that is okay.

 

[HockeyRef]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2016-17 -- We're Going to Have a Hockey Season Here!!

Not sure how this all got started. TK is a legit UNH star, period. Was Williams better than..... Bottom line, it is all about who you play with. I believe that this line has suffered from something that no one is talking about. The 2016 YEAR of the PENALTY! We have not played a game (nor has anyone else) where at least 30+/- minutes have not been special team "ice time". What does this do - it means that you are juggling most of your better players around to have the best PP or Pk that you can have. And when they are over it often takes 2 or 3 shifts to get the rotation back. My point is that this line, and the others, have not had the benefit of the amount of paying time that might produce better chemistry.
This is not a deep team nor a typical junior/senior led team. It may not be pretty but it will improve and I'm going to all the game regardless. And perhaps you are not, and that is okay.

Guilty as charged...I suggested that TyK was one of the "UNH greats" and said his name in the same sentence as other UNH greats....which stimulated some spirited convo. Interesting perspective on the penalties...seems like a hot topic all over the place. (USCHO cover story as we speak regarding HE penalties leading to short hand goals of which we are all too aware). Like you, I feel it will improve; hopefully this weekend!