UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part Two) - Managing Decreasing Expectations

[HockeyRef]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part Two) - Managing Decreasing Expectations

A very interesting read of the past couple of days. Of course, I have zero input as you would expect but I will say this "history repeats itself unless...." If you were going to fill in the blank...what would those of you say who know the past, and, hope for the future? From the very short tenure I have as a fan, and, when I take off the blue and white frosted glasses, I've learned alot about the game of college hockey recruiting. I don't kid myself I know everything but still, I'm amazed that we even compete given the choices players have to be honest. Has to speak for the strength and history of the program and, the coaching. Who knew?

So...HC in waiting Mike Souza has alot going for himself in the fact that he has past history, and is learning the ropes of what is right NOW. Hopefully he is savvy to the admissions debacles and knows when a good player is ready to come to Durham or not. For me, I'm anxiously awaiting his next few recruits. I still think, it would be a thrill to play for New Hampshire. I know the vR's think so! Let's hope others (recruits) think so, too.

Ps...http://wbspenguins.com/articles/desmith-backstops-pens-to-3-2-win-in-hartford#

 

[UNHJourney34]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part Two) - Managing Decreasing Expectations

I will be at the Whitt tonight, so I will be unable to watch the Bruins game. But for anyone not going to the game you might want to check out nesn for a few minutes. Paul Thompson got called up and is about to play his first NHL game tonight for the Devils.

 

[NCAA watcher]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part Two) - Managing Decreasing Expectations

I guess my argument is that Umile really hasn't changed in all these years when it comes to recruiting. He really hasn't changed in his loyalty to others. I believe it goes against his character to do otherwise. The criticism of him that I would make is misplaced loyalty in others. This misplaced loyalty probably led to relying on Borek's recommendation to defer LaLeggia and Vecchione. A huge mistake. A change in assistants should have been made several years ago and that is on him. His failure to do so was never going to be enough for him to either resign or be dismissed. And you, Bomber and others should recognize that.

I believe that is what I said in my post

Like I said before, the time for second guessing has passed. Umile has two more years after this, enough time I think to find out if the Souza method has a chance of working. Let's just hope it does.

You seem focused on whether our thoughts and analysis will actually translate into actions. I'm under no illusion that Umile will resign or change his stripes. My discussion is just expressing frustration that Umile has long had this flaw, and that if he could just have fixed that flaw, things could have been a bit better.

BY HRef
So...HC in waiting Mike Souza has alot going for himself in the fact that he has past history, and is learning the ropes of what is right NOW. Hopefully he is savvy to the admissions debacles and knows when a good player is ready to come to Durham or not. For me, I'm anxiously awaiting his next few recruits.

Agree with this totally. I'm glad to see that the entire recruiting approach has taken a moment to re-assess. How that translates, we'll see. Going after Hillis, a high OHL pick, is always a tough thing, with the OHL temptations, and I'm sure if he visited UNH, then BU, BC, Michigan and the like will also be around. But getting him would be a nice signal to other recruits. The Farkas/Boguniecki we have spoken of.

Of course, the final step will be seeing what sort (style) of teams Souza is trying to build.

 

[Greg Ambrose]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part Two) - Managing Decreasing Expectations

How about, based on nothing but pure speculation, that if he had do-over, Coach would have been more aware of the change in admissions policy? Things in Durham have come a long way since the days of athletes sleeping their way to a B in Ma Brown's Perspectives in Physical Education class in New Hampshire Hall.

You're right Darius, nothing but speculation. If it means anything, I was told second hand (but very reliable source) by a coach of one varsity sport that every program was blindsided by the new admissions standard. My guess is admissions soft pedaled it until the rubber met the road. The question to ask on this issue is where Scarano was. Appears he wasn't much of an advocate for his coaches, except maybe football.

 

[Greg Ambrose]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part Two) - Managing Decreasing Expectations

You seem focused on whether our thoughts and analysis will actually translate into actions. I'm under no illusion that Umile will resign or change his stripes. My discussion is just expressing frustration that Umile has long had this flaw, and that if he could just have fixed that flaw, things could have been a bit better.

You imply that Umile would renege on the deal? I haven't talked to Michael Souza about this but I did talk to his father a few weeks ago. He is certainly under the impression that his son will be the coach after two more seasons.

 

[NCAA watcher]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part Two) - Managing Decreasing Expectations

No, I meant I don't think he'll resign now.

 

[Chuck Murray]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part Two) - Managing Decreasing Expectations

You're right Darius, nothing but speculation. If it means anything, I was told second hand (but very reliable source) by a coach of one varsity sport that every program was blindsided by the new admissions standard. My guess is admissions soft pedaled it until the rubber met the road. The question to ask on this issue is where Scarano was. Appears he wasn't much of an advocate for his coaches, except maybe football.

For the record to those who think I'm the only one who ever criticizes BS35+3 ... not me this time.

Having said that, Greg asks a very pointed (and highly relevant) question.

I could fire out a half dozen smarmy and/or accusatory responses in my sleep ... but I'm going to trust others to take care of this for me, I work hard enough around here, it's time others pulled their weight.

hmmmm ... sound familiar?

 

[Dan]

You're right Darius, nothing but speculation. If it means anything, I was told second hand (but very reliable source) by a coach of one varsity sport that every program was blindsided by the new admissions standard. My guess is admissions soft pedaled it until the rubber met the road. The question to ask on this issue is where Scarano was. Appears he wasn't much of an advocate for his coaches, except maybe football.

Greg - I don't doubt for a second what you heard or even that the coach truly believed they were blindsided, but what does blindsided mean? I've coached at four different NCAA institutions of varying athletic and academic levels. They all had two things in common...

First, each athletic department had regular meetings with admissions (and a direct athletic admissions contact) to address any changes, updates or questions.

Second, at the very beginning of the recruiting process (and yes, that includes FR and SO in high school - hockey is not the only sport that commits early) coaches were required to turn in transcripts and complete paperwork to ensure that prospective recruits were on track to earn admission. This also allowed coaches to inform prospects of what their courseload needed to include moving forward.

These processes make it hard to screw up - if UNH wasn't/isn't doing this they would be in a SMALL minority.

UNHs admission criteria changed dramatically when the new and current director took over - I would be SHOCKED if there was not a meeting within weeks of any changed criteria between admissions and athletics to outline new policy. I would be shocked because that is how it's done everywhere else.

Now, that meeting may have surprised or "blindsided" some people - but there is no way admissions changed policy and quietly applied those policies during reviews, with athletic programs only discovering new policies when their athletes were denied...

For me, the admissions mistakes with White and Reid are unforgivable in and of themselves. From the day they committed, someone (I don't care who) should have been reviewing their transcripts, tracking admissions policies and paperwork and ensuring their admissibility. The fact that these same issues have arisen again is inexcusable and infuriating.

The lack of attention to detail and inability to learn from/correct past mistakes is a huge reason why the program is where it is - and it is/was TOTALLY controllable. Masonious would be the second-best defenseman on this roster and he's playing at UConn because of staff laziness and sloppiness.

I hope Souza and Stewart are willing and able to change staff policy on their own, because Umile, himself, has seemingly done nothing to stop the bleeding or rectify prior mistakes regarding academics or deferrals. We've talked about his stubborness - he won't change, will he allow his underlings to make changes over the next two years or are we in a holding pattern?

 

[HockeyRef]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part Two) - Managing Decreasing Expectations

FWIW dept 'Cats playing them tough on the PP lead SOG 24-21 9:14 to go.

 

[HockeyRef]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part Two) - Managing Decreasing Expectations

UML does what it has to do in a fairly non descript game...onto NU. Nice to see UNH34 and Aerman. Totally agree with your synopsis of the game...could've gone either way was more of a back and forth who's gonna get lucky. I will say that I thought we played better defensively esp. Dylan Maller who stood out for me. Anyone else watch/comments? Ugh, 31st in PWR this morning not that it matters a ton at this point.

 

[C-H-C]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part Two) - Managing Decreasing Expectations

"UNH Falters Late; Can’t Muster Up a Goal in Loss to UMass Lowell"

By Parker Wheeler

 

[Snively65]

Ugh, 31st in PWR this morning not that it matters a ton at this point.

Like recent seasons, the only way that UNH can get to the NCAAs is by winning the HEA tourney, and to do that, it sure would help to have home ice in the first round.

 

[HockeyRef]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part Two) - Managing Decreasing Expectations

Like recent seasons, the only way that UNH can get to the NCAAs is by winning the HEA tourney, and to do that, it sure would help to have home ice in the first round.

Yep pretty much what I thought; that was sealed early on when our OOC stuff went South? Welp mk. On another note BvR and parents were in the house last night to meet Coach Souza for the first time! I saw them hanging out with Mike L and asked him about it...

ps And Snively, to do that, (home ice in the first round) you have to be in the top 8, correct? Big weekend ahead; it will be a "dog fight" but we could get 4 big points...

 

[Snively65]

Yep pretty much what I thought; that was sealed early on when our OOC stuff went South? Welp mk. On another note BvR and parents were in the house last night to meet Coach Souza for the first time! I saw them hanging out with Mike L and asked him about it...

ps And Snively, to do that, (home ice in the first round) you have to be in the top 8, correct? Big weekend ahead; it will be a "dog fight" but we could get 4 big points...

NU beat St L 3-0 last night, and St L schooled us early in the season, so no guarantees.

 

[bomberhockey]

Too bad you didn't respond to my post:

"My criticism of Bomber's post is based on his statement that, if Umile had the good of the program at heart, he would have resigned 5-7 years ago. Watcher, I don't know where you work or whether or not you are the boss, but the thought that a guy in his late 50's, as successful as he has been would look in the mirror and unilaterally say, "you know, i can't do the job anymore, the guys on USCHO are right, I should quit" is beyond ludicrous. Seven years ago was 2009, the year after they were a number one seed in Colorado Springs. The following three years they made the NCAA regional final. Whether or not you think that these are all hollow accomplishments, the fact is that Umile didn't and neither did the those in a position to fire him."

I'm not sure who appointed you and Watcher to be the all knowing gods of UNH Hockey. Really, step back a minute and think of what the two of you are saying. That Umile was so bad, so incompetent, that he should have recognized these "facts" and voluntarily resigned his position. Sorry, but nothing but grade school logic. Perhaps you guys are thinking of applying for a job as Marty's assistants? I am sure he would value your input.

Just a thought. Are Bomber and Watcher the same person? Not out of the realm of possibility. Multiple non de plumes have been used before on this forum.

Where do I start? I didn't go back and look at it by am 100% sure that you admonished Umile for not leaving earlier. Words, to that effect that, if he had the good of the program at heart he would have left. As a long time admirer of Charlie Holt, both as a person and as a coach, I appreciate the reference to him in the same category as York. But I will remind you that Charlie was disengaged in his later years as well, relying on O'Connor and Kullen to do the recruiting. And speaking of Kullen, how does his recruiting classes of the mid-80's stack up against with what went on later? We've debated the merits of Bob Kullen before and I'll leave it at that.

Now for the matter of Umile's disengagement. I won't argue the fact that when he was a recruiter, and in his early days as UNH coach, he favored a certain type of player. No surprise that one of his favorite players ever is Kevin Thompson. However I think he has recognized this bias and its why he had no problem with the types of players McCloskey and Lassonde brought in. He had a lot of faith in those two and, really, for the most part they didn't fail him. No one disparaged Umile's faith in others when he was coaching the likes of Boguniecki, Mowers, Krog, etc. The problems started to fester after McCloskey left and Borek came on board. He continued to have faith in his assistants to do their job, and while Borek initially had success, the breadth of that success lessened as the years went on. Anybody who thinks the rosters of the last few years equate to those of even ten years ago is just not watching. A few hits here and there, but way too many misses or, perhaps, settling for something less than the best. Watcher, I think you mentioned awhile back that Borek seemed to be settling for second best instead of focusing on the a few top tier players then filling out the rest with worker bees.

I guess my argument is that Umile really hasn't changed in all these years when it comes to recruiting. He really hasn't changed in his loyalty to others. I believe it goes against his character to do otherwise. The criticism of him that I would make is misplaced loyalty in others. This misplaced loyalty probably led to relying on Borek's recommendation to defer LaLeggia and Vecchione. A huge mistake. A change in assistants should have been made several years ago and that is on him. His failure to do so was never going to be enough for him to either resign or be dismissed. And you, Bomber and others should recognize that.

Like I said before, the time for second guessing has passed. Umile has two more years after this, enough time I think to find out if the Souza method has a chance of working. Let's just hope it does.

BTW, anybody doubt that I am a real fan, and for a long time?

Greg
I get it you're a friend of Richie's and you'll defend no matter what and I admire that. Dick Umile is a admirable man, gracious, humble, and giving I won't deny that. He Parker, York and Walsh were the Mount Rushmore of HE. What I'm arguing is that Coach Umile was a great coach when he was involved in all aspects of the program. You put all the blame on an assistant coach (Borek) for the downfall of this program "after initial success". There are two perspectives here your's is that Borek stopped being effective doing his job, and mine is that Borek was effective when he had the support of the head coach. Imagine being a recruit, in your living room is York, Parker, Leaman, and Borek wooing you to come be part of their program, wouldn't you say what's wrong with this picture? I'm an elite recruit being recruited by all the elite programs and Most of the HCs from those program came into my living room and watched me play dozens of times.
You can believe it or not what if when Borek turned in his recruiting keys he had to write who the recruits were and how to contact them and what amount of scholarship they were offered? Why would the HC of a national championship team hire sure an inept recruiter to join his staff? Promises were made that never came to fruition and that's ok but when the AD is aware of the reasons for the program's decline and sits on his hands and let's it continue then the real blame goes to him ultimately. It would have been brutal on the AD to put pressure on the winningest coach in program history, to pick up the pace or pick his check, but that should have happened at least 4 years ago but probably longer. You can place blame where you want and I'll place blame where I feel bad it belongs.
I don't think that Dick Umile should have retired 5-7 years ago, I think he should stay as long as he wanted however, he shouldn't have talked about a 5 year plan for over a decade and he should still be involved in all aspects of HIS program. There is no one behind the curtain for the great Oz now and it shows. Just my opinion based on a few facts and observations I've made.
To qualify myself as a Cat fan I saw and started following in 1965 if that had anything to do with anything.

 

[Snively65]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part Two) - Managing Decreasing Expectations

That is pretty cool about 1965, Bomber. Did you see any games at Batchelder Rink? I found a couple of my photos of Snively construction; will ask a friend to host them so that I can post a link.

 

[HockeyRef]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part Two) - Managing Decreasing Expectations

NU beat St L 3-0 last night, and St L schooled us early in the season, so no guarantees.

Oh trust me I look past no one...I did see that score and know NU is no push over. Looking to get seats at Matthews as we speak.

 

[Darius]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part Two) - Managing Decreasing Expectations

Fun game to watch. Well played, no TV, few penalties, nice pace. The better team won, fittingly on a dirty goal. We did play better defensively, few (no?) glaring D zone turnovers, but there were significant stretches where we could not gain possession of the puck in our end. Smith's line started the game. Nice to see Eiserman back. Give UML credit for their play against Pots' line. The other 3 lines played disciplined hockey, were juggled in the 3rd period coinciding with a territorial and SOG advantage. Hard to be overly disappointed.

 

[bomberhockey]

That is pretty cool about 1965, Bomber. Did you see any games at Batchelder Rink? I found a couple of my photos of Snively construction; will ask a friend to host them so that I can post a link.

No we didn't live in the area, most of the time they were on the road, Boston Arena, Army, UMass, UConn (outdoors), Yankee Conference tourney. Fun, fun times!!

 

[HockeyRef]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part Two) - Managing Decreasing Expectations

Fun game to watch. Well played, no TV, few penalties, nice pace. The better team won, fittingly on a dirty goal. We did play better defensively, few (no?) glaring D zone turnovers, but there were significant stretches where we could not gain possession of the puck in our end. Smith's line started the game. Nice to see Eiserman back. Give UML credit for their play against Pots' line. The other 3 lines played disciplined hockey, were juggled in the 3rd period coinciding with a territorial and SOG advantage. Hard to be overly disappointed.

yeah that was a curious line to start the game with wonder what the feelings were there? I'd agree; we weren't disappointed in fact relieved we at least played with them. Looking at last years game we played them tight at the 'Whitt but at the Tsongas, not so much. It was good to see Eiserman out there ahead of schedule. UML def took us out of puck possession and that obviously made the difference when we needed a goal. Was glad no one got hurt on our end. Didn't notice til the end of the game, and Aerman pointed out, that Stewie wasnt' behind the bench and CMacD took his place...