UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part Two) - Managing Decreasing Expectations

[Felger]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part Two) - Managing Decreasing Expectations

Just being honest on the realities of the situation, HR. Yeah, I have plenty of compassion for the injury, as MacDonald has been snakebit over large stretches of his UNH career, no doubt. I wouldn't wish that on anyone. That has to be (very) frustrating to him, which comes through in C-H-C's interview. And it looks like he's handling the situation as well as anyone could expect him to. Kudos to him.

That's compassion from my standpoint ... but pretending he's a "vital part of the team" is straining for praise with platitudes, if not just plain outright patronizing, and (yet again) puts him well above his station IMO. Just like his teammates did back in April.

The word vital is defined as "absolutely necessary or important".

Who deserves to be considered "vital"? Poturalski and Kelleher for sure, probably Tirone (more for the lack of depth behind him than for All-HE level performance, which isn't there yet), probably Correale for filling the on-ice captaincy void, and probably Cleland who gets the key minutes for the team on the blue line. As a concept, it's "vital" that there be more scoring depth up front, and the recent streak has confirmed the importance of that ... and it's "vital" that the defense develops an ability to transition the puck out of its own zone better.

MacDonald has been replaced on the ice by Jamie Hill. Is anyone referring to Hill as a "vital part of the team"? I doubt it. But since he took the role opened by MacDonald on the Maginot Line, that line has consistently played much better - no? And the team turned things around with a six-game unbeaten streak. MacDonald dressed for only one (1) of those games - the 3-3 tie in Orono, when he got hurt.

MacDonald still has the worst plus/minus (-6) of the UNH forwards, while Hill is a more respectable -1. Hill has outperformed MacDonald in every measurable category, and passes the eye test too as the better of the two players when he's out there. Gaudreault and Smith have both played much better in recent weeks with Hill skating on their right wing. Literally, the only regular player on the roster who is not outscoring MacDonald this season is Danny Tirone ... and that's only by a single point.

Ironically, it was the same players who made the decision to pick MacDonald as their captain, who are now showing in his absence that their captain is not the "vital" presence they expected (hoped?) him to be.

That's the players' collective fault, and Coach Umile's fault for not overriding their decision. I'm not blaming MacDonald for being the same player he always has been ... and "vital" just doesn't fit the bill. Sorry.

You say "callous" ... I say "objective".

Bottom Line:

UNH with MacDonald in the line-up 3-6-4

UNH without MacDonald in the line-up 5-1-0

Actually I see some similarities between this situation and that of 2011-12, when Mike Borisenok was a captain. MB started the season on the top line....UNH was massacred in first three games....by the time the World Series started Borisenok was skating third line and actually played on the 4th line during part of that season.

Difference this season seems to be that DU was a bit slower to make the move with MacDonald

 

[NCAA watcher]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part Two) - Managing Decreasing Expectations

As for Umile, you're pretty cavalier about somebody else's career. Umile started this season at age 66. From the looks of it, you wanted him to retire at 60, if not earlier. As I said yesterday, why would someone want to retire early from a job he loves and is well paid just so somebody else can allegedly do the job better. Umile rightfully has a lot of confidence in his ability. Where his confidence in his ability has been misplaced at times is his confidence in others. While some of us could see the obvious here, the administration chose not to call him out on his decisions on who he retains or hires.

Greg
Bomber's observations were based not on his age, but on his refusal to do any more heavy lifting.
That comports with my own observations in our 2012 discussion about Umile's lack of involvement in getting kids and then seeing that they get into school
see
http://board.uscho.com/showthread.p...-Thread-2012&p=5414473&viewfull=1#post5414473


It also comports with what we saw once Borek left, and a lot of players felt they had no connection to Umile.

So, to speak for Bomber, its not his age why he should have retired, it was that he no longer had the desire to perform the obligations of his job.

 

[HockeyRef]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part Two) - Managing Decreasing Expectations

Just being honest on the realities of the situation, HR. Yeah, I have plenty of compassion for the injury, as MacDonald has been snakebit over large stretches of his UNH career, no doubt. I wouldn't wish that on anyone. That has to be (very) frustrating to him, which comes through in C-H-C's interview. And it looks like he's handling the situation as well as anyone could expect him to. Kudos to him.

That's compassion from my standpoint ... but pretending he's a "vital part of the team" is straining for praise with platitudes, if not just plain outright patronizing, and (yet again) puts him well above his station IMO. Just like his teammates did back in April.

The word vital is defined as "absolutely necessary or important".

Who deserves to be considered "vital"? Poturalski and Kelleher for sure, probably Tirone (more for the lack of depth behind him than for All-HE level performance, which isn't there yet), probably Correale for filling the on-ice captaincy void, and probably Cleland who gets the key minutes for the team on the blue line. As a concept, it's "vital" that there be more scoring depth up front, and the recent streak has confirmed the importance of that ... and it's "vital" that the defense develops an ability to transition the puck out of its own zone better.

MacDonald has been replaced on the ice by Jamie Hill. Is anyone referring to Hill as a "vital part of the team"? I doubt it. But since he took the role opened by MacDonald on the Maginot Line, that line has consistently played much better - no? And the team turned things around with a six-game unbeaten streak. MacDonald dressed for only one (1) of those games - the 3-3 tie in Orono, when he got hurt.

MacDonald still has the worst plus/minus (-6) of the UNH forwards, while Hill is a more respectable -1. Hill has outperformed MacDonald in every measurable category, and passes the eye test too as the better of the two players when he's out there. Gaudreault and Smith have both played much better in recent weeks with Hill skating on their right wing. Literally, the only regular player on the roster who is not outscoring MacDonald this season is Danny Tirone ... and that's only by a single point.

Ironically, it was the same players who made the decision to pick MacDonald as their captain, who are now showing in his absence that their captain is not the "vital" presence they expected (hoped?) him to be.

That's the players' collective fault, and Coach Umile's fault for not overriding their decision. I'm not blaming MacDonald for being the same player he always has been ... and "vital" just doesn't fit the bill. Sorry.

You say "callous" ... I say "objective".

I get what/where you are coming from from a statistical point of view. And I'll be honest, it was a bit of a knee jerk reaction. I know he's doing what he can as far as supporting the team even in his limited, at this point, not on the ice role. I am aware of his statistics but appreciate the reminder.

 

[Snively65]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part Two) - Managing Decreasing Expectations

Yeah, I missed the "vital," which was probably the wrong word choice, HR.........unless the team is now playing for their ailing captain? "Oh, captain, my captain!" Thanks for the comparison to Borisenok, Felger; without looking up his numbers, he did have better junior year stats than MacDonald, I think? And, his family helped us get a Jumbotron!

 

[HockeyRef]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part Two) - Managing Decreasing Expectations

Agree with everything here. Thanks to Mike for the interview with Collin, which had to be a tough one wth his last question. As for the video clips, wrap-around goal by Pots looked even more amazing than it did to me at the opposite end of the rink. On the first UVM goal, I had a better view than that shown in be video; at the JAR, that puck would have been blown dead, as it would have hit the roof. I think that UVM, especially with Privitera and Munson playing so well, is going be tough at the Whitt next month. But, cannot look ahead to those games, with the Riverhawks (Ospreys?) coming to the Whitt this Friday.

Agree on the Pots wrap around it WAS more amazing seeing it on the tape...UVM...we have a 1-4-0 record with them the past three (?) seasons. They always play us tough...and it will be tough at the 'Whitt. Speaking of UML... what IS a Riverhawk, anyway?? (A team we haven't had that much success with either in the past 2-3 seasons going 2-5 including Regionals/HE games if I have my numbers right!) Now's a good time to start but know it's gonna be tough going.

Ps...I won't be starting a game thread...someone else maybe?

 

[Greg Ambrose]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part Two) - Managing Decreasing Expectations

Greg
Bomber's observations were based not on his age, but on his refusal to do any more heavy lifting.
That comports with my own observations in our 2012 discussion about Umile's lack of involvement in getting kids and then seeing that they get into school
see
http://board.uscho.com/showthread.p...-Thread-2012&p=5414473&viewfull=1#post5414473


It also comports with what we saw once Borek left, and a lot of players felt they had no connection to Umile.

So, to speak for Bomber, its not his age why he should have retired, it was that he no longer had the desire to perform the obligations of his job.

Please re-read my post. I think we are talking in parallel universes. My criticism of Bomber's post is based on his statement that, if Umile had the good of the program at heart, he would have resigned 5-7 years ago. Watcher, I don't know where you work or whether or not you are the boss, but the thought that a guy in his late 50's, as successful as he has been would look in the mirror and unilaterally say, "you know, i can't do the job anymore, the guys on USCHO are right, I should quit" is beyond ludicrous. Seven years ago was 2009, the year after they were a number one seed in Colorado Springs. The following three years they made the NCAA regional final. Whether or not you think that these are all hollow accomplishments, the fact is that Umile didn't and neither did the those in a position to fire him. As I said before, Umile's biggest deficiency is his faith and confidence in others to do their job. That's why he was loyal to Borek and why seniors get the first chance on the power play. We are now at the point where the end is on the horizon. Let's be thankful for that. And btw, given Borek's track record over the past few years, two or three recruits following him to Providence does not exactly make me quake in my boots.

 

[Chuck Murray]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part Two) - Managing Decreasing Expectations

Bottom Line:

UNH with MacDonald in the line-up 3-6-4

UNH without MacDonald in the line-up 5-1-0

Actually I see some similarities between this situation and that of 2011-12, when Mike Borisenok was a captain. MB started the season on the top line....UNH was massacred in first three games....by the time the World Series started Borisenok was skating third line and actually played on the 4th line during part of that season.

Difference this season seems to be that DU was a bit slower to make the move with MacDonald

The difference is also that Borisenok was a regular who played pretty much every game in his soph and junior seasons, and entered his senior year with roughly twice the number of games played than MacDonald did at the same point. Patrick Foley (3 yrs. with a letter?) was never a guy to post huge numbers, but he played every game pretty much from Day One. Another guy I recall who was an earlier version of Foley was Bob Chebator ('94) who also played most/every game in all four years despite not posting huge numbers. Foley and Chebator were lead-by-example guys who were not afraid to play a physical game, despite being surrounded by less physical teammates.

None of Borisenok (bar his frosh season), Foley or Chebator was ever a regular healthy scratch, and they certainly weren't sitting in the stands when their teams were playing their biggest games.

It's not "just about stats", HR. It's about having presence and currency with your teammates. You earn that from being out there in the biggest games ... and remember, this was a team that had to scratch and claw its way into the postseason mix last season, culminating with an inspiring road upset of the eventual D-1 champions to earn a return trip to Boston. Shouldn't your returning leaders reflect some of the heart and soul that went into that? Instead, the players basically trivialized the "C", and Coach didn't save them from themselves.

You can admire someone for how he's had to handle adversity with injuries, etc. without handing him the "C".

Sorry to beat the dead horse yet again. Gotta go - my Empathy 101 class starts in 5 minutes ...

 

[HockeyRef]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part Two) - Managing Decreasing Expectations

The difference is also that Borisenok was a regular who played pretty much every game in his soph and junior seasons, and entered his senior year with roughly twice the number of games played than MacDonald did at the same point. Patrick Foley (3 yrs. with a letter?) was never a guy to post huge numbers, but he played every game pretty much from Day One. Another guy I recall who was an earlier version of Foley was Bob Chebator ('94) who also played most/every game in all four years despite not posting huge numbers. Foley and Chebator were lead-by-example guys who were not afraid to play a physical game, despite being surrounded by less physical teammates.

None of Borisenok (bar his frosh season), Foley or Chebator was ever a regular healthy scratch, and they certainly weren't sitting in the stands when their teams were playing their biggest games.

It's not "just about stats", HR. It's about having presence and currency with your teammates. You earn that from being out there in the biggest games ... and remember, this was a team that had to scratch and claw its way into the postseason mix last season, culminating with an inspiring road upset of the eventual D-1 champions to earn a return trip to Boston. Shouldn't your returning leaders reflect some of the heart and soul that went into that? Instead, the players basically trivialized the "C", and Coach didn't save them from themselves.

You can admire someone for how he's had to handle adversity with injuries, etc. without handing him the "C".

Sorry to beat the dead horse yet again. Gotta go - my Empathy 101 class starts in 5 minutes ...

Whew! Glad you are taking care of this glaring issue Chuck! And if that one doesn't work out, I know a great instructor

 

[Greg Ambrose]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part Two) - Managing Decreasing Expectations

The difference is also that Borisenok was a regular who played pretty much every game in his soph and junior seasons, and entered his senior year with roughly twice the number of games played than MacDonald did at the same point. Patrick Foley (3 yrs. with a letter?) was never a guy to post huge numbers, but he played every game pretty much from Day One. Another guy I recall who was an earlier version of Foley was Bob Chebator ('94) who also played most/every game in all four years despite not posting huge numbers. Foley and Chebator were lead-by-example guys who were not afraid to play a physical game, despite being surrounded by less physical teammates.

None of Borisenok (bar his frosh season), Foley or Chebator was ever a regular healthy scratch, and they certainly weren't sitting in the stands when their teams were playing their biggest games.

It's not "just about stats", HR. It's about having presence and currency with your teammates. You earn that from being out there in the biggest games ... and remember, this was a team that had to scratch and claw its way into the postseason mix last season, culminating with an inspiring road upset of the eventual D-1 champions to earn a return trip to Boston. Shouldn't your returning leaders reflect some of the heart and soul that went into that? Instead, the players basically trivialized the "C", and Coach didn't save them from themselves.

You can admire someone for how he's had to handle adversity with injuries, etc. without handing him the "C".

Sorry to beat the dead horse yet again. Gotta go - my Empathy 101 class starts in 5 minutes ...

With you Chuck. Not singling Ref out here, but I have come across an awful lot of people over the years who think effort is enough a ticket to get regular and prominent playing time. It is interesting the three guys you cite. I hadn't thought about Bob Chebator in a long time. He was a grinder, lead by example type kid. He was captain in, I think, 1994. UNH made the NCAA's that year and actually won a game (2-0 vs. RPI, Trent Cavicchi in net), so you could say he did his job. As for Foley, he had a letter on his jersey three straight years. Although injuries played a part I suppose, I never got the impression that he had much skill (hands of stone) but he certainly was an integral part of some pretty good teams, including the FF loss to Minny in 2003. I'll always remember his heartfelt speech after that loss, it was a good one. As for Borisenok, he was smart, hard worker and accepted his role whatever it was. I'll add that his dad Walt is one of the great hockey parents I have ever been exposed to. It was great to see him and Mike earlier this year when they and others were acknowledged for their contributions for the jumbotron. What all three of these had in common were they had built a resume, something that Umile could see and endorse. That's why they were captains. As for McDonald, one can applaud his efforts to overcome his injuries, and I feel bad that he will be missing a big chunk of his senior year, but it doesn't make him captain material in my book. Sorry. However Umile thinks otherwise and that's all that counts.

 

[wildcatdc]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part Two) - Managing Decreasing Expectations

So what EXACTLY is the process for electing the UNH captains? Two simple questions...

1. Do the players, and the players ONLY, elect their captains?

2. Does Umile have veto power, or does he fully delegate the choice to the team?

Just the facts, folks, please.

And yes, I realize there is some redundancy in the questions, but I just want to be crystal clear.

 

[Chuck Murray]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part Two) - Managing Decreasing Expectations

So what EXACTLY is the process for electing the UNH captains? Two simple questions...

1. Do the players, and the players ONLY, elect their captains?

2. Does Umile have a say, or does he fully delegate the choice to the team?

Just the facts, folks, please.

Honestly don't know, 'dc. Not sure it matters, though. It's Coach Umile's program, so he gets to decide how those things happen. If he decides it's the players' choice, it doesn't mean Coach isn't still accountable for their selection.

 

[HockeyRef]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part Two) - Managing Decreasing Expectations

]Yeah, I missed the "vital," which was probably the wrong word choice, HR.........[/B]unless the team is now playing for their ailing captain? "Oh, captain, my captain!" Thanks for the comparison to Borisenok, Felger; without looking up his numbers, he did have better junior year stats than MacDonald, I think? And, his family helped us get a Jumbotron!

Well I will respectfully disagree with you Snively65...but I do appreciate your reference to one of my all time fav movies, "Dead Poets Society". Obviously the term 'vital' implies great contributions/absolutely necessary stuff but those contributions are not always soley limited to the ice and that was what I was referring to. Give me a little credit folks; I know that effort does not a Captain make. Standing down on the topic; it is what it is. The primary objective is seeing what we can do in these upcoming HE games as they are soooo critical and, vital to making any kind of noise in the post season, yes?

And just so it's clear; I want, and expect, the absolute best players on that ice at all times, and for the team to win games...especially this coming Friday. Go 'Cats!!!

 

[wildcatdc]

Honestly don't know, 'dc. Not sure it matters, though. It's Coach Umile's program, so he gets to decide how those things happen. If he decides it's the players' choice, it doesn't mean Coach isn't still accountable for their selection.

I understand your point, but I'm going to sit tight until someone can confirm the process.

 

[Snively65]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part Two) - Managing Decreasing Expectations

I understand your point, but I'm going to sit tight until someone can confirm the process.

I think that the process is murky, at best, and was discussed ad nauseam in one of our previous threads when the announcements were made last spring.

[And just so it's clear; I want, and expect, the absolute best players on that ice at all times, and for the team to win games...especially this coming Friday. Go 'Cats!!!

Speaking of which, where was Rich Boyd the other night, hurt?

 

[HockeyRef]

I think that the process is murky, at best, and was discussed ad nauseam in one of our previous threads when the announcements were made last spring.




Speaking of which, where was Rich Boyd the other night, hurt?

No idea he hasnt played in awhile saw he, Chanter and Borque at UVM but of course didn't/wouldn't ask...

 

[Aerman]

Well I will respectfully disagree with you Snively65...but I do appreciate your reference to one of my all time fav movies, "Dead Poets Society". Obviously the term 'vital' implies great contributions/absolutely necessary stuff but those contributions are not always soley limited to the ice and that was what I was referring to. Give me a little credit folks; I know that effort does not a Captain make. Standing down on the topic; it is what it is. The primary objective is seeing what we can do in these upcoming HE games as they are soooo critical and, vital to making any kind of noise in the post season, yes?

And just so it's clear; I want, and expect, the absolute best players on that ice at all times, and for the team to win games...especially this coming Friday. Go 'Cats!!!

I think you just dissed Walt Whitman!

 

[HockeyRef]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part Two) - Managing Decreasing Expectations

I think you just dissed Walt Whitman! ��

Geeze I can't seem to do anything right today...sorry Walt.

 

[Snively65]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part Two) - Managing Decreasing Expectations

Geeze I can't seem to do anything right today...sorry Walt.

Not sure how you dissed Walt; our captain is ailing, whereas Lincoln was assassinated?

 

[HockeyRef]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part Two) - Managing Decreasing Expectations

Not sure how you dissed Walt; our captain is ailing, whereas Lincoln was assassinated?

I know right? Guess Aerman has more insight into the literary side of things than I gave him credit for hahaha! CARPE DIEM gang!

 

[HockeyRef]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part Two) - Managing Decreasing Expectations

Andrew Pots is HE's Player of the Month...again! This is getting old haha Congrats Andrew!!

Video highlights courtesy of Mike Lowry:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0L2U09dYOs

Also word on the street is that Eiserman will return next week...MacD, out indef but we knew that.