UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part Three) - Living in Interesting Times

[Dan]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part Three) - Living in Interesting Times

As I've made well known, I'm so tired of the excuses of academics and facilities leading to the demise of the hockey program. UNH is in a tough spot financially, the academic elitism is bogus and the athletic department as a whole does very little to market, support or raise money for its programs. But it is what it is. So work through it. There have always been two types of coaches at UNH...

When hockey excelled it was because they had an invested young coach in DU and assistants who made the most of everything they had, while making ZERO excuses. Now they have a distant head coach and we continue to hear excuse after excuse about being blindsided by admission (again and again!) and a lack of facilities by people connected to the program. Those excuses can only generate from one place and that speaks loudly to why this program is where it is now.

Quite frankly, in my opinion, UNH did nothing for football. Sean MacDonald is an AMAZING coach, with determination and vision, who has built an incredible program by embracing the program's limitations and lack of funding. He has eliminated excuses and worked for everything that his program has become. Not only has he far exceeded any realistic expectation one could have ever had for football but he is successful on a national scale in the FCS. The same can be said of any of the successful programs at UNH. Those coaches also have very little to work with, but they don't whine - they get it done. Just like hockey used to be when they had similar leadership and belief...

Meanwhile, basketball at UNH has always been an excuse factory - citing reason after reason why they can't compete (or in most year's even be relevant) in the worst DI conference in NCAA basketball. Are we really excited to finally be over .500, a mark that includes a pair of wins over DII/III clubs and a best win of who...? That program has always been a joke because it has always accepted its 'lot in life'.

Right now, we have a hockey head coach and administration that is thinking (and feeling sorry for itself) way too much like UNH basketball and not nearly enough like UNH football (and certainly gymnastics, as well.). UNH hockey needs to get back to an attention to detail, a refusal to accept excuses and steadfast belief in its mission and ability to compete with anyone. Right now there is a loser attitude permeating the program, a loser attitude holding them accountable from the administration above and as a result, they're losing...

 

[Dan]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part Three) - Living in Interesting Times

If basketball really wants to be worth while - they should play 14 non-conference buy games and raise 7-10 million dollars for the rest of the athletic department. Maybe then, they'd even attract enough recruits who want to challenge themselves against major schools (instead of the Lydon States and Suffolks of the world!) to actually be a player in America East...

OR maybe they could have higher expectations than a coach who is 117-191 in 11 years playing the step-children of DI basketball (with probably 10-20% of those wins coming against non-DIs mind you)...

 

[zoofer]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part Three) - Living in Interesting Times

Nicely written and said UNH1932 but the one thing you omitted was the biggest reason for the shift to football's prominence.....first off I have to say that we'd all like all our sports to do well, and yes our women's sports have great season's for most of their sports, but given the budget, booster's and sponsors pool that we have, only so much money is available, and can be spread only so thin. So which sport's ROI is the best? I believe UNH earned somewhere near $400,000 for making the finals in football.....what do you think it costs to bring Michigan and Notre Dame to the Whitt, even if the league helps defer costs? Unfortunately the women's sports do not bring in anything, but even so I bet combining all their sport's rosters might total the same number of players on the football team.....
And while it's true HockeyRef that HE has 5 teams in the top 10 nationally and is very competitive, if Admissions would get off it's high horse, we'd be right back in the conversation.....

 

[Dan]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part Three) - Living in Interesting Times

if Admissions would get off it's high horse, we'd be right back in the conversation.....

Or if the coaching staff would learn its lesson and start recruiting the multitudes of talented players out there who are still admissible or if they would bother to pay attention to the recruits after they commit and ensure they're taking the necessary classes. These consistent academic issues and screw-ups are 100% on Umile and his staff and they need to get their heads out of their rear-ends and do their jobs...

 

[Nick Papagiorgio]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part Three) - Living in Interesting Times

We have the talent to play with BU, BC, Providence and Lowell

So does AIC.

 

[Dan]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part Three) - Living in Interesting Times

So does AIC.

Right, just cause they're not getting run off the ice - and have stolen a couple games - doesn't mean they're any where near those programs or that we can 'play with them' consistently. Any DI program - just like any DI goalie - can turn in a good performance once in a while. They're DI athletes. You know what separates the good teams from the bad teams and the good goalies from the bad goalies? Consistency.

BTW, UNH accepts 80% of students who apply - according to this link. With a two-part SAT score of 1000. Golly, how do Umile and company even field a team with such rigid standards...!!

http://collegeapps.about.com/od/collegeprofiles/p/UNH-university-of-new-hampshire.htm

Pay attention to the simple requirements and make sure the kids take the right classes. Don't continuously fail to monitor your recruits and ***** about admissions...

 

[Chuck Murray]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part Three) - Living in Interesting Times

As I've made well known, I'm so tired of the excuses of academics and facilities leading to the demise of the hockey program. UNH is in a tough spot financially, the academic elitism is bogus and the athletic department as a whole does very little to market, support or raise money for its programs. But it is what it is. So work through it. There have always been two types of coaches at UNH...

When hockey excelled it was because they had an invested young coach in DU and assistants who made the most of everything they had, while making ZERO excuses. Now they have a distant head coach and we continue to hear excuse after excuse about being blindsided by admission (again and again!) and a lack of facilities by people connected to the program. Those excuses can only generate from one place and that speaks loudly to why this program is where it is now.

Quite frankly, in my opinion, UNH did nothing for football. Sean MacDonald is an AMAZING coach, with determination and vision, who has built an incredible program by embracing the program's limitations and lack of funding. He has eliminated excuses and worked for everything that his program has become. Not only has he far exceeded any realistic expectation one could have ever had for football but he is successful on a national scale in the FCS. The same can be said of any of the successful programs at UNH. Those coaches also have very little to work with, but they don't whine - they get it done. (Not to mention they shamed the U into building them a new facility!!) Just like hockey used to be when they had similar leadership and belief...

Meanwhile, basketball at UNH has always been an excuse factory - citing reason after reason why they can't compete (or in most year's even be relevant) in the worst DI conference in NCAA basketball. Are we really excited to finally be over .500, a mark that includes a pair of wins over DII/III clubs and a best win of who...? (Gotta start somewhere. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt to see if they push the program further up the competitive ladder) That program has always been a joke because it has always accepted its 'lot in life'.

Right now, we have a hockey head coach and administration that is thinking (and feeling sorry for itself) way too much like UNH basketball and not nearly enough like UNH football (and certainly gymnastics, as well.). UNH hockey needs to get back to an attention to detail, a refusal to accept excuses and steadfast belief in its mission and ability to compete with anyone. Right now there is a loser attitude permeating the program, a loser attitude holding them accountable from the administration above and as a result, they're losing...

Oh and BTW I'm watching WMUR News right now, and just saw my first ever Men's Hoops commercial hawking AE Playoff home game tickets ...

 

[NCAA watcher]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part Three) - Living in Interesting Times

I am sure it will be a brutal offseason on the boards. Rest assured that there is talent on the way.

It's only brutal until you hit bottom. Then it's going up. From what I understand about the team, the lockerroom suffers from the lack of direction.

As to the last sentence, is there knowledge behind this, or just a throw away line? Nothing about the team or the new coach allows me to "rest assured" though I am not dismissing the notion out of hand. A year into this, and it seems they're aiming for singles. Would be nice to see a double, or even a triple.

 

[HockeyRef]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part Three) - Living in Interesting Times

Just read that the Bruins very own Rene Rancourt will sing the anthem at Friday night's game....

 

[Snively65]

Just read that the Bruins very own Rene Rancourt will sing the anthem at Friday night's game....

Trivia Quiz: What do Rene Rancourt and Yvon Chouinard, founder of Patagonia, have in common?

 

[HockeyRef]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part Three) - Living in Interesting Times

Trivia Quiz: What do Rene Rancourt and Yvon Chouinard, founder of Patagonia, have in common?

I dunno; they are both from Lewiston, Me??? (of course I looked that up)

 

[Snively65]

I dunno; they are both from Lewiston, Me??? (of course I looked that up)

Bingo, eh!

 

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part Three) - Living in Interesting Times

As I've made well known, I'm so tired of the excuses of academics and facilities leading to the demise of the hockey program. UNH is in a tough spot financially, the academic elitism is bogus and the athletic department as a whole does very little to market, support or raise money for its programs. But it is what it is. So work through it. There have always been two types of coaches at UNH...

When hockey excelled it was because they had an invested young coach in DU and assistants who made the most of everything they had, while making ZERO excuses. Now they have a distant head coach and we continue to hear excuse after excuse about being blindsided by admission (again and again!) and a lack of facilities by people connected to the program. Those excuses can only generate from one place and that speaks loudly to why this program is where it is now.

Quite frankly, in my opinion, UNH did nothing for football. Sean MacDonald is an AMAZING coach, with determination and vision, who has built an incredible program by embracing the program's limitations and lack of funding. He has eliminated excuses and worked for everything that his program has become. Not only has he far exceeded any realistic expectation one could have ever had for football but he is successful on a national scale in the FCS. The same can be said of any of the successful programs at UNH. Those coaches also have very little to work with, but they don't whine - they get it done. Just like hockey used to be when they had similar leadership and belief...

Meanwhile, basketball at UNH has always been an excuse factory - citing reason after reason why they can't compete (or in most year's even be relevant) in the worst DI conference in NCAA basketball. Are we really excited to finally be over .500, a mark that includes a pair of wins over DII/III clubs and a best win of who...? That program has always been a joke because it has always accepted its 'lot in life'.

Right now, we have a hockey head coach and administration that is thinking (and feeling sorry for itself) way too much like UNH basketball and not nearly enough like UNH football (and certainly gymnastics, as well.). UNH hockey needs to get back to an attention to detail, a refusal to accept excuses and steadfast belief in its mission and ability to compete with anyone. Right now there is a loser attitude permeating the program, a loser attitude holding them accountable from the administration above and as a result, they're losing...

Not sure what you feel is bogus? From everything I've heard athletes needing academic credentials that fall within those of the general student body is the current reality for admissions. Nobody is trying to paint UNH as an Ivy League school. At the same time I'm going to venture a guess that for over 90% of the D-I schools that admission standard is not the norm for hoop and football. Syracuse has already had sanctions dropped on them and North Carolina has to be on the verge of getting hammered for their transgressions.

Why wouldn't people be excited about a 17-11 record and a second consecutive winning season with the horrid history of UNH MBB? And for the record the best win is over Albany who has won America East multiple times in the past years. And for the OP UNH took BC to overtime this year, missing a shot at the buzzer in regulation. I have no illusions of grandeur for UNH in hoop because you can't win big nationally without going into the cesspool of big time collegiate sports. That is never happening in Durham. They've become a player in AE and should be a leading contender next season.

 

[Chuck Murray]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part Three) - Living in Interesting Times

Honestly very happy for Hoops. I enjoyed the Drapeau/Alosa/Montanari (sp?) teams from 20+ years ago immensely. It's been too few good seasons, and too far between them overall.

It would be terrific if UNH Hoops became a consistent competitor at their level, just as Football has at theirs.

I only said seeing Hockey fall behind the other two programs' results was unprecedented, at least in my lifetime.

 

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part Three) - Living in Interesting Times

If basketball really wants to be worth while - they should play 14 non-conference buy games and raise 7-10 million dollars for the rest of the athletic department. Maybe then, they'd even attract enough recruits who want to challenge themselves against major schools (instead of the Lydon States and Suffolks of the world!) to actually be a player in America East...

OR maybe they could have higher expectations than a coach who is 117-191 in 11 years playing the step-children of DI basketball (with probably 10-20% of those wins coming against non-DIs mind you)...

From what I know about the pay days in D-I basketball, UNH would be lucky to obtain $1.5 million for 14 OOC games! And a chunk of that would get eaten up with the travel expenses going all over the country. Not to mention how the time traveling would impact the player's academics. Basketball plays on week nights unlike hockey with the primarily weekend scheduling.

And please one or two non D-I games in a season of 28-30 games isn't even 10% let alone 20%. For the record, I absolutely detest the non D-I games and try to boycott them. Most of the basketball fans I know don't like them but playing one has become the norm in the Northeast. The second one is just inexcusable IMHO. At any rate, you need to stop with the hyperbole.

To play devil's advocate, with all the claims about hockey playing with the big boys and being the most important program at UNH, why isn't hockey playing high level games and bringing in your 7-10 million to fund the rest of the athletic program? That's what premier programs at other D-I schools do. BTW, from what I've been told, football is currently bringing in more money to the Athletic Dept than hockey and as my source told me "it isn't even close". I figured many responses would be to denigrate other programs at UNH instead of focusing on what hockey needs to do to improve.

How does anything accomplished by other programs negatively affect ice hockey??????? Why the need to denigrate them because they don't play at the highest level of D-I? Sure hockey does, but there are only what 60 D-I schools and many of them aren't D-I in all other sports. I love that UNH can win a national championship in ice hockey, but I understand it is a niche sport that the majority of America doesn't care about. And I'm also smart enough to know that if more of the big boys decided to play D-I hockey, the more difficult it would be for UNH to remain a true national contender. Shoot, right now we're not a contender in Hockey East. Nationally, football is significantly more popular than ice hockey so why wouldn't people care about UNH Football. I get to watch a quality product and have a great tailgating experience for far less than I would at a P5 school. I've been to a big time rivalry game at a P5 school and it was an incredible experience but I left saying I got a better value at UNH. And I don't have to ignore the semi-professional, academic charade at the majority of P5 schools. And I get to watch UNH compete for a national championship against around 125 peer D-I schools. That's great for me.

 

[Dan]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part Three) - Living in Interesting Times

Not sure what you feel is bogus? From everything I've heard athletes needing academic credentials that fall within those of the general student body is the current reality for admissions. Nobody is trying to paint UNH as an Ivy League school. At the same time I'm going to venture a guess that for over 90% of the D-I schools that admission standard is not the norm for hoop and football. Syracuse has already had sanctions dropped on them and North Carolina has to be on the verge of getting hammered for their transgressions.

Why wouldn't people be excited about a 17-11 record and a second consecutive winning season with the horrid history of UNH MBB? And for the record the best win is over Albany who has won America East multiple times in the past years. And for the OP UNH took BC to overtime this year, missing a shot at the buzzer in regulation. I have no illusions of grandeur for UNH in hoop because you can't win big nationally without going into the cesspool of big time collegiate sports. That is never happening in Durham. They've become a player in AE and should be a leading contender next season.

I agree - what is bogus is UNH turning away elite athletic prospects because they're a hair under the general academic credentials or on transcript technicalities. Unfortunately, that's been the reality for hockey recruiting for years now. Yet, Umile nor his staff can be bothered to understand the system, pay attention to the system or attempt to recruit within the system. Whatever you think about the system, the failure to work within it is 100% on the coaches (which is even more frustrating, because as I've pointed out its still not a very restrictive system at all)...

Maybe I'll get excited about UNH hoops when they win 4-5 seasons in a row, as opposed to 4-5 seasons in program history. Or when they can earn a moral victory against a BC team that is not absolutely horrendous. Congrats to Herrion, if in his 11th year he is finally realizing that the woe is me attitude and excuse making history of UNH basketball hasn't worked. Unfortunately, the hockey staff and administration is trending in the other direction...

 

[Dan]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part Three) - Living in Interesting Times

From what I know about the pay days in D-I basketball, UNH would be lucky to obtain $1.5 million for 14 OOC games! And a chunk of that would get eaten up with the travel expenses going all over the country. Not to mention how the time traveling would impact the player's academics. Basketball plays on week nights unlike hockey with the primarily weekend scheduling.

And please one or two non D-I games in a season of 28-30 games isn't even 10% let alone 20%. For the record, I absolutely detest the non D-I games and try to boycott them. Most of the basketball fans I know don't like them but playing one has become the norm in the Northeast. The second one is just inexcusable IMHO. At any rate, you need to stop with the hyperbole.

To play devil's advocate, with all the claims about hockey playing with the big boys and being the most important program at UNH, why isn't hockey playing high level games and bringing in your 7-10 million to fund the rest of the athletic program? That's what premier programs at other D-I schools do. BTW, from what I've been told, football is currently bringing in more money to the Athletic Dept than hockey and as my source told me "it isn't even close". I figured many responses would be to denigrate other programs at UNH instead of focusing on what hockey needs to do to improve.

You play the big schools and your travel is often covered - that's how football and basketball work. Hockey doesn't work that way and you know that. Not only is their much less money for guarantees, but UNH is a 'big boy' so they're not getting a guarantee unless they head to Alaska (and that's just travel expenses). Now, should they go up there for a couple of wins on supplemented travel and earn the right to host a couple more home games? Maybe so.

When I mentioned the DII games resulting in 10-20%, I was referring to their role in Herrion's UNH win total. I think you knew that, as well. Without doing the research, I'll bet I'm right - or real close.

I haven't denigrated football in any way. They've made their program an FCS elite out of table scraps. That's why UNH hockey should adopt (return to) their attitude. Basketball has always been a program that just can't win because of all its obstacles. That attitude is why they've never won. Whats even sadder is that is now what we hear out of the UNH hockey corners. The administration and coaching staff got real comfortable at the top and forgot how they got there in the first place...

If the basketball team is finally changing their attitude, than good for them, but it will take more than occasionally not being an America East doormat and a moral victory over a BC team that sits over 50 spots BEHIND them in RPI to convince me...

Finally, if you've been paying attention to my posts recently - you'll see that I know there is PLENTY the hockey program could do to address its own excuses. After spending a season at DU, I'm certain UNH could generate 10K per night in beer revenue. That's just the beginning.

 

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part Three) - Living in Interesting Times

You play the big schools and your travel is often covered - that's how football and basketball work. Hockey doesn't work that way and you know that. Not only is their much less money for guarantees, but UNH is a 'big boy' so they're not getting a guarantee unless they head to Alaska (and that's just travel expenses). Now, should they go up there for a couple of wins on supplemented travel and earn the right to host a couple more home games? Maybe so.

When I mentioned the DII games resulting in 10-20%, I was referring to their role in Herrion's UNH win total. I think you knew that, as well. Without doing the research, I'll bet I'm right - or real close.

I haven't denigrated football in any way. They've made their program an FCS elite out of table scraps. That's why UNH hockey should adopt (return to) their attitude. Basketball has always been a program that just can't win because of all its obstacles. That attitude is why they've never won. Whats even sadder is that is now what we hear out of the UNH hockey corners. The administration and coaching staff got real comfortable at the top and forgot how they got there in the first place...

If the basketball team is finally changing their attitude, than good for them, but it will take more than occasionally not being an America East doormat and a moral victory over a BC team that sits over 50 spots BEHIND them in RPI to convince me...

Finally, if you've been paying attention to my posts recently - you'll see that I know there is PLENTY the hockey program could do to address its own excuses. After spending a season at DU, I'm certain UNH could generate 10K per night in beer revenue. That's just the beginning.

Actually, I don't know how hockey works. And I haven't seen travel covered with the pay days in hoop and football. Why would we have flown commercially to the Bay Area for the San Jose State football game if transportation was being covered by a school that charters to games? My understanding is that UNH pays for their transportation out of the guarantee or they receive a lower guarantee if transportation is covered. And the football guarantees are not the seven figure guarantees that you see one FBS school give another FBS school. I've never heard of UNH getting even $500K. Flying commercially is less expensive so a greater net from the guarantee goes into the coffers.

 

[Dan]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part Three) - Living in Interesting Times

Actually, I don't know how hockey works. And I haven't seen travel covered with the pay days in hoop and football. Why would we have flown commercially to the Bay Area for the San Jose State football game if transportation was being covered by a school that charters to games? My understanding is that UNH pays for their transportation out of the guarantee or they receive a lower guarantee if transportation is covered. And the football guarantees are not the seven figure guarantees that you see one FBS school give another FBS school. I've never heard of UNH getting even $500K. Flying commercially is less expensive so a greater net from the guarantee goes into the coffers.

Why? Because football plays San Jose State and not Stanford, Toledo instead of Michigan. App State made $400,000 to go to Michigan TEN years ago. FCS schools who play P5 opponents are raking in at least $750K (plus travel, too - more often than not). SJSU and Toledo are not that far above UNH in terms of athletic department cash flow. I'm not going to criticize football, after all MacDonald has accomplished, for playing FBS schools they expect to beat. They've earned the right. Though, it might be worth considering more games at Purdue, Illinois, Oregon State, Kansas, BC, etc., where they could win and cash in...

 

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part Three) - Living in Interesting Times

I agree - what is bogus is UNH turning away elite athletic prospects because they're a hair under the general academic credentials or on transcript technicalities. Unfortunately, that's been the reality for hockey recruiting for years now. Yet, Umile nor his staff can be bothered to understand the system, pay attention to the system or attempt to recruit within the system. Whatever you think about the system, the failure to work within it is 100% on the coaches (which is even more frustrating, because as I've pointed out its still not a very restrictive system at all)...

Maybe I'll get excited about UNH hoops when they win 4-5 seasons in a row, as opposed to 4-5 seasons in program history. Or when they can earn a moral victory against a BC team that is not absolutely horrendous. Congrats to Herrion, if in his 11th year he is finally realizing that the woe is me attitude and excuse making history of UNH basketball hasn't worked. Unfortunately, the hockey staff and administration is trending in the other direction...

No argument on your first point. And frankly when I heard about happened with Godreau (sp??), I was irate at UNH for not being more flexible and not processing the application. Athletics recruiting doesn't always fit nicely into the time frame world of Admissions. Frankly, they need to me be more flexible for the occasional exception. I've heard of multiple occurrences where Admissions wouldn't admit a kid for the November basketball signing period because they want to see the first half senior year grades. They don't understand that the kid isn't going to wait, he's going to sign with another school. And more than once it has been with another AE school. I've had a person involved with AAU Basketball tell me he was trying to guide a kid toward UNH. The response was "UNH Admissions wants me to do all this extra stuff. I have five other schools interested in me that aren't asking for all that BS".

It hasn't been all poor attitude with MBB, there have been numerous real obstacles. I wish there was a Private Message vehicle on this forum. I don't want to write a long basketball post on a hockey forum, but I have many more stories about Admissions. For this forum, hockey has to know that they weren't the only ones impacted.

UNH should get a third winning season next season and hopefully unlike 93-95 that it can be built upon. Still there is only so high an expectation that you can have. Frankly, the Sweet Sixteen is probably the absolute high ceiling for an America East (formerly the North Atlantic Conference) team. And no team has achieved that in probably over two decades. UVM's first round win over Syracuse is a decade ago. Jim Calhoun's Northeastern team with Reggie Lewis may be the only one to achieve the Sweet 16. But 4-5 consecutive winning seasons isn't unachievable nor is beating a poor P5 team like BC, but it is still something that UNH MBB has never done. Being an old fart, I'm lucky enough to have seen UNH beat UConn and BC a few times back in our Yankee Conference days.