UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part One) - Return of the "Champions of December"??

[HockeyRef]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part One) - Return of the "Champions of December"??

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part One) - Return of the "Champions of December"??

About Souza, sorry!
I don't know him at all. Scott did say he'll do well he's cut out to do it! What he lacks in experience I'm told he'll make up for in personality. And he has the right optics, young family, former pro, alum. He just can't take anything for granted, meaning he probably won't be with that young family at Christmas or New Years, for that matter Thanksgiving and 4th of July. Easter is good if it falls during the dead period. And Labor Day is September so on the road at training camps. You have to love it, especially after 30 years of doing it.

yes you answered the q about coach Souza..thanks..and being a teacher of 30 plus years...I hear you about loving what you do to continue on...

 

[NCAA watcher]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part One) - Return of the "Champions of December"??

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part One) - Return of the "Champions of December"??

Well, Bomber seems to confirm that the program rots from its head down. The kids voting with their feet seem to confirm this. Its a shame DU used his energies and political capital to secure himself extensions and salary rather than ensuring changes (admissions) that would benefit the team.

I will not tar Souza with the fact that he was picked by DU to be his successor. I had hoped the change would generate some strong positive momentum of its own, but this ham-handed change precludes that, actually resulting in negative momentum. Hopefully Souza can hold his own until certain inhibiitng factors dissapear.

While we may disagree on the desirability of having Borek take over as HC, best of luck to him at PC except when battling UNH.

 

[Snively65]

Crap - we're getting close to the thread's limit, now that it's getting interesting ...

But, it is only Part One, right?

 

[Greg Ambrose]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part One) - Return of the "Champions of December"??

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part One) - Return of the "Champions of December"??

He was under the impression that he was going to take the reigns in a relatively short period of time, provided they stayed relevant. The original timeline came and went and nothing happened for more than double the original timeline. SB knew that wasn't a given as it is now bu it was assured. Until recently I believe he had a contract that lapsed one year after DU's did, ongoing just in case.
I take no pleasure in speaking about this as DU is a gracious man that is a legend. And he was supportive of SB during emailgate unlike the guy across the street. (Emailgate is another story altogether)
I feel that no where else would an associate head coach be so relevant in this programs outcome. Does anyone even think of assistants at other programs?
So yes is the concise answer, "after a national search" of course.

I really find your version hard to believe. I interacted with Dick Umile on at least a weekly basis for 15 years. Since we graduated from UNH the same year, knew some of the same people growing up north of Boston, we sort of bonded. I would never call him a bosom buddy, but we had a respectful coach to booster/fan relationship. One thing, above all, that impressed me about the man was his loyalty. His loyalty has been disparaged on this forum countless times, including in some forms by me, but it is the essence of the man. His loyalty to family, his fellow coaches, his players and the school is what defines the guy. What you're telling me is that he reneged on a promise that he made to Scott Borek, that he would step aside at some point (earlier rather than later it appears) so that Borek could become the head coach. I'd be surprised if this was true, I really would.

BTW, if I had ruled the roost during emailgate, Borek would have been gone fast. He either did not know the rule or knowingly broke it. Can't have that,, period.

 

[Greg Ambrose]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part One) - Return of the "Champions of December"??

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part One) - Return of the "Champions of December"??

Well, Bomber seems to confirm that the program rots from its head down. The kids voting with their feet seem to confirm this. Its a shame DU used his energies and political capital to secure himself extensions and salary rather than ensuring changes (admissions) that would benefit the team.

I will not tar Souza with the fact that he was picked by DU to be his successor. I had hoped the change would generate some strong positive momentum of its own, but this ham-handed change precludes that, actually resulting in negative momentum. Hopefully Souza can hold his own until certain inhibiitng factors dissapear.

While we may disagree on the desirability of having Borek take over as HC, best of luck to him at PC except when battling UNH.

I'll agree with your last statement but that's it. First, the academic thing is Marty's problem. From what I have been told, second hand from a varsity coach, is that every program was up in arms about the tightening of academic requirements. In fact, I had a guidance counselor from NH high school tell me that UNH's admissions policies were absurd. But be that as sit may, Dick Umile did not have to weasel around to get contract extensions. He had a lifetime deal where the coaching would end when it was mutually agreeable between him and the school. This was the deal that was struck in spring of 2000 after the dalliance with UMass. If you recall, UMass went after him heavy, he had meetings with not only the AD at UMass but members of the Board of Trustees. In the end he parlayed that offer to get what he wanted at UNH. The bottom line is that he never was on a limited term contract to be coach after he signed his deal with UNH. And remember, this all came about at the time Judy Ray (who had a great relationship with Umile) was leaving and Marty Scarano entered the picture.

As for the hiring of Souza, I don't think it is "ham handed" at all. Let's look at the landscape of UNH Hockey over the past few years. The program has been teetering for several years through a combination of poor coaching, poor recruiting, and poor play on the ice. After spending a good 20 years as a top four team in Hockey East, UNH is now in the middle four at best with barely a sniff of hope of making the NCAA tournament, never mind winning it all. The program is spiraling in the wrong direction and, my guess is that, through many discussions with Marty Scarano, Umile agreed to set a timetable for departure. Given the fact that UNH's fortunes have not been good and their prospects for getting better soon were even worse, it is highly doubtful that an established Division 1 coach (at least one that UNH would want) would leave a current position to take the UNH job. Yes, this flies in face of what Scarano promised years ago but, then, times have changed. So UNH had three choices. They could have kicked Umile upstairs and started a nationwide search, announced that he would retire in three years and wait to do a search, or do what they did. UNH and Scarano would never have opted for the first choice, they have too much respect for him. Announcing a retirement in the future with nothing else would have left the program dangling, so they chose the path they did. This way recruits know that the "old doddling fool" will be leaving, to be replaced by a young, bright, energetic alum who saw success at both the college and professional level. Whether Souza pans out we'll have to see. He's a personable kid (actually not a kid anymore. I think he is 37), he's well thought of in coaching circles, so we'll just have to hope for the best. If it doesn't perhaps Marty will be more decisive next time.

 

[Chuck Murray]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part One) - Return of the "Champions of December"??

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part One) - Return of the "Champions of December"??

But, it is only Part One, right?

Yeah ... not to mention that whole "Champions of December" thing hasn't exactly come to pass anyway.

How many posts does it take these days to max out a thread?

boy, the last line of Greg's last post is awwwfully tempting to pass up ...

 

[bomberhockey]

I really find your version hard to believe. I interacted with Dick Umile on at least a weekly basis for 15 years. Since we graduated from UNH the same year, knew some of the same people growing up north of Boston, we sort of bonded. I would never call him a bosom buddy, but we had a respectful coach to booster/fan relationship. One thing, above all, that impressed me about the man was his loyalty. His loyalty has been disparaged on this forum countless times, including in some forms by me, but it is the essence of the man. His loyalty to family, his fellow coaches, his players and the school is what defines the guy. What you're telling me is that he reneged on a promise that he made to Scott Borek, that he would step aside at some point (earlier rather than later it appears) so that Borek could become the head coach. I'd be surprised if this was true, I really would.

BTW, if I had ruled the roost during emailgate, Borek would have been gone fast. He either did not know the rule or knowingly broke it. Can't have that,, period.

You're probably right I only have one side of the story. I just don't understand the lifetime thing? I know that SB contract lasted one year beyond DU's commitment in case someone else came in he'd have time to find a new home. I never saw either contract but I believe my source.

 

[Dan]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part One) - Return of the "Champions of December"??

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part One) - Return of the "Champions of December"??

BTW, if I had ruled the roost during emailgate, Borek would have been gone fast. He either did not know the rule or knowingly broke it. Can't have that,, period.

From everything I've heard or read it the consensus seems to be it was just a simple mistake (carelessness at worst) and not ignorance or circumventing of the rule. Most every collegiate athletic program will use some sort of recruiting database software to log information on recruits, including recruits you can communicate with and those you cannot. It could have been as simple as errors in data entry or checking the wrong box while sorting recruits to receive the email. The seriousness of the offense, to me, would really relate to what the content of the email was...

 

[Dan]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part One) - Return of the "Champions of December"??

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part One) - Return of the "Champions of December"??

As for the hiring of Souza, I don't think it is "ham handed" at all. Announcing a retirement in the future with nothing else would have left the program dangling, so they chose the path they did. This way recruits know that the "old doddling fool" will be leaving, to be replaced by a young, bright, energetic alum who saw success at both the college and professional level. Whether Souza pans out we'll have to see. He's a personable kid (actually not a kid anymore. I think he is 37), he's well thought of in coaching circles, so we'll just have to hope for the best. If it doesn't perhaps Marty will be more decisive next time.

I can see both sides to this argument. I certainly wouldn't want a retirement announcement without some sort of plan - there's not one worthy recruit that would commit to a program not having any idea who they would be playing for - but I share Watcher's concern that in three years Souza ends up unable to differentiate himself from his predecessor. I'd rather the transition was a one year plan and not a long and drawn-out three year plan that stifles and delays any positive momentum...

 

[bomberhockey]

From everything I've heard or read it the consensus seems to be it was just a simple mistake (carelessness at worst) and not ignorance or circumventing of the rule. Most every collegiate athletic program will use some sort of recruiting database software to log information on recruits, including recruits you can communicate with and those you cannot. It could have been as simple as errors in data entry or checking the wrong box while sorting recruits to receive the email. The seriousness of the offense, to me, would really relate to what the content of the email was...

Dan
You're absolutely correct according what I know it was a software thing and he honestly didn't know, thus speaking candidly with a competitor. When the competitor told him to stop and sin no more, SB couldn't let it go and turned himself in. He was shocked when the university lawyers up and told him he should do the same. DU was extremely loyal to him with his support and probably saved SBs job. I lost some respect for the guy across the street though. In the end the way it all went down I lost a lot of respect for DU and Now have less than zero respect for Scarano.
And this is my dilemma a Wildcat fan of 50 years. I love college hockey and find it so much mores citing than pro hockey, with the exception of the Stanley Cup playoffs, to which nothing compares. As Seinfeld said we only root for laundry, and I love that Blue laundry, although it shines less than it did.

 

[e.cat]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part One) - Return of the "Champions of December"??

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part One) - Return of the "Champions of December"??

Very interesting conversation about SB and DU and such but IMHO it's water under the dam. I could give a rats arse. I am more concerned with the here and now and moving forward the future of the program.What I am not comfortable with is DU hand picking his successor. Do I like Souza? Sure! Loved him as a player. But to cede the decision solely in the hands of DU and MS smacks of nepotism to me.

 

[sonar]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part One) - Return of the "Champions of December"??

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part One) - Return of the "Champions of December"??

Very interesting conversation about SB and DU and such but IMHO it's water under the dam. I could give a rats arse. I am more concerned with the here and now and moving forward the future of the program.What I am not comfortable with is DU hand picking his successor. Do I like Souza? Sure! Loved him as a player. But to cede the decision solely in the hands of DU and MS smacks of nepotism to me.

It is really not that complex .... the Souza thing allows DU the post-retirement opportunity to share in, even take partial credit, for any possible success that Souza brings to the program. It is the old "king maker" approach to making yourself look good after you have left the stage. I would think that a number of us have had experience with "king makers" scenarios during our work histories. I know that when I experienced at least one of these "king maker" transitions it was clearly motivated by the leader's inability to let go. Of course there was also a good amount of self-inflation involved, not too speak of self-importance.

 

[e.cat]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part One) - Return of the "Champions of December"??

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part One) - Return of the "Champions of December"??

It is really not that complex .... the Souza thing allows DU the post-retirement opportunity to share in, even take partial credit, for any possible success that Souza brings to the program. It is the old "king maker" approach to making yourself look good after you have left the stage. I would think that a number of us have had experience with "king makers" scenarios during our work histories. I know that when I experienced at least one of these "king maker" transitions it was clearly motivated by the leader's inability to let go. Of course there was also a good amount of self-inflation involved, not too speak of self-importance.

You're right and there is no doubt in my mind that DU is having a very difficult time letting go. It would be a travesty for the U to let this happen though. But where does the buck stop? Does Huddleston really have that much faith in MS to give him free reign on this which then trickles down to DU? Would the Trustees step in and insist on a search? Of course they will do a pseudo search but I'm talking about a legit search. UNH Hockey is a big deal in the state, and is so north of Concord contrary to what Greg A. thinks.

 

[Snively65]

Very interesting conversation about SB and DU and such but IMHO it's water under the dam. I could give a rats arse. I am more concerned with the here and now and moving forward the future of the program.What I am not comfortable with is DU hand picking his successor. Do I like Souza? Sure! Loved him as a player. But to cede the decision solely in the hands of DU and MS smacks of nepotism to me.

Love your "water under the dam" metaphor, e.cat.

So, at the Bentley game, it was Souza on the bench with DU, and Stewart not there, apparently away recruiting. When will Souza hit the recruiting road?

Meanwhile, are we about to set a record for wrapping up a season thread before the holidays?

 

[e.cat]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part One) - Return of the "Champions of December"??

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part One) - Return of the "Champions of December"??

Love your "water under the dam" metaphor, e.cat.

So, at the Bentley game, it was Souza on the bench with DU, and Stewart not there, apparently away recruiting. When will Souza hit the recruiting road?

Meanwhile, are we about to set a record for wrapping up a season thread before the holidays?

Over/under......have fun up in snowy Bangor tonight! It's going to be a hostile environment. Should be fun

 

[wildcatdc]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part One) - Return of the "Champions of December"??

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part One) - Return of the "Champions of December"??

Pretty sure they let threads go over 1000 these days. If not, the should give we UNH'ers special dispensation due to the prolific nature of our several threads.

 

[Greg Ambrose]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part One) - Return of the "Champions of December"??

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part One) - Return of the "Champions of December"??

You're right and there is no doubt in my mind that DU is having a very difficult time letting go. It would be a travesty for the U to let this happen though. But where does the buck stop? Does Huddleston really have that much faith in MS to give him free reign on this which then trickles down to DU? Would the Trustees step in and insist on a search? Of course they will do a pseudo search but I'm talking about a legit search. UNH Hockey is a big deal in the state, and is so north of Concord contrary to what Greg A. thinks.

e.cat, the search is over. Unless Souza falls off a cliff, does bodily harm to one of his players, or totally screws up recruiting, he is the next coach. As to whether Umile is having a hard time letting go, he loves his job so I don't doubt that he has mixed feelings about retiring. I sold my business over a year ago and, while I love the freedom that my wife and I have to do different things when we want to do them, there are things about the daily aspects of the working life that I miss. Not sure how old you are, and not sure what your profession is, but when you are all in on your job, and have been for decades, it is hard to to see the end on the horizon. As for UNH being a big deal around the state, I was on the board of the FOH for over 20 years. In the heyday 10-15 years ago, we used to mail newsletters (how quaint) to close to 1,000 members. The vast majority, by a long shot, were sent to addresses in the Seacoast, and the Concord/Manchester axis. i don't doubt that the University and the hockey program has fervent supporters in all corners of the state, but to infer that UNH Hockey is a big deal in places like Claremont, Keene, and Plaistow was not borne about by the numbers I saw over several years.

 

[Chuck Murray]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part One) - Return of the "Champions of December"??

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part One) - Return of the "Champions of December"??

e.cat, the search is over. Unless Souza falls off a cliff, does bodily harm to one of his players, or totally screws up recruiting, or the program progressively/completely tanks over the next 2+ seasons he is the next coach. As to whether Umile is having a hard time letting go, he loves his job so I don't doubt that he has mixed feelings about retiring. I sold my business over a year ago and, while I love the freedom that my wife and I have to do different things when we want to do them, there are things about the daily aspects of the working life that I miss. Not sure how old you are, and not sure what your profession is, but when you are all in on your job, and have been for decades, it is hard to see the end on the horizon.

Just tweaked the early part of your post, Greg ... and that last bit is just so absolutely spot on.

As for UNH being a big deal around the state, I was on the board of the FOH for over 20 years. In the heyday 10-15 years ago, we used to mail newsletters (how quaint) to close to 1,000 members. The vast majority, by a long shot, were sent to addresses in the Seacoast, and the Concord/Manchester axis. i don't doubt that the University and the hockey program has fervent supporters in all corners of the state, but to infer that UNH Hockey is a big deal in places like Claremont, Keene, and Plaistow was not borne about by the numbers I saw over several years.

Totally agreed 100%. It's my biggest complaint with the higher-ups - past and present - that not more was done to get the word out, especially when they had a quality product out on the ice. With all of the progress that's been made in recent years with Football, I'm frankly seeing the same short-sighted approach yet again.

This is not a geographically huge state. Perhaps with the rise to prominence of the Durham-Pease-Portsmouth economic engine, we'll see a more pervasive media focus on things in our corner of the world in the next generation? But UNH has had the tools and the capacity to do a better job of publicizing its flagship program(s) for awhile now, and to the extent that most of that work has been done instead by hard-working volunteer groups like FOH (or its Football equivalent) is a shame, and a poor reflection on those actually being paid for doing that publicity work around the state. I just talked about the possibility of some complacency in the locker room this season, but whatever complacency (if any?) may be in the program, is dwarfed in comparison by those higher up in the Athletics food chain. JMHO.

 

[Greg Ambrose]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part One) - Return of the "Champions of December"??

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part One) - Return of the "Champions of December"??

Just tweaked the early part of your post, Greg ... and that last bit is just so absolutely spot on.



Totally agreed 100%. It's my biggest complaint with the higher-ups - past and present - that not more was done to get the word out, especially when they had a quality product out on the ice. With all of the progress that's been made in recent years with Football, I'm frankly seeing the same short-sighted approach yet again.

This is not a geographically huge state. Perhaps with the rise to prominence of the Durham-Pease-Portsmouth economic engine, we'll see a more pervasive media focus on things in our corner of the world in the next generation? But UNH has had the tools and the capacity to do a better job of publicizing its flagship program(s) for awhile now, and to the extent that most of that work has been done instead by hard-working volunteer groups like FOH (or its Football equivalent) is a shame, and a poor reflection on those actually being paid for doing that publicity work around the state. I just talked about the possibility of some complacency in the locker room this season, but whatever complacency (if any?) may be in the program, is dwarfed in comparison by those higher up in the Athletics food chain. JMHO.

Chuck, I'm not a native and never lived in New Hampshire except when I was in the Durham bubble. But my wife grew up in North Conway, I have good friends in the Seacoast, Concord area, and near Keene going on 40 years or more. The thing that always struck me, going back to the 70's was how derisively the powers that be in the state looked down their noses at UNH. I have no idea how it was back in the 40's or 50's, but I know all the stories about the Union Leader and its publisher William Loeb vis a vis UNH during the Vietnam protest days. I witnessed the total disregard that Mel Thomson had for the Seacoast when he and Aristotle Onassis proposed the oil refinery along Great Bay and the Isle of Shoals. These actions spoke to a hostility towards the Seacoast area and, by extension, UNH for several decades. The Pease Tradeport and the booming economy of Portsmouth and environs is a wonderful thing for the whole state, but my guess is that the majority of the legislature couldn't care less.

The point I'm trying to make is that the state as a whole has been dismissive of the school probably since its inception. I've often wondered if the attitude would be different if the school was located in the center of the state, somewhere between Manchester and Concord, rather that in the southeast corner. Maybe the majority of the populace would look at the school more favorably. But UNH has not helped itself over the years with a series of presidents who see UNH as a stepping stone and stay at the school for no more than 3 or 4 years at a time. Getting adequate funding for state universities in New England seems to be a tough mountain to climb, it certainly is here in Massachusetts. Maybe Huddleston will stay around long enough to make a difference, but it takes a concerted effort from those at the top - President, Board of Trustees, etc. - and UNH hasn't really shown that over the years. I'd say if the state as a whole was all in on the University mission, maybe they would be all in on the fortunes of the athletic programs.

 

[Chuck Murray]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part One) - Return of the "Champions of December"??

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part One) - Return of the "Champions of December"??

Chuck, I'm not a native and never lived in New Hampshire except when I was in the Durham bubble. But my wife grew up in North Conway, I have good friends in the Seacoast, Concord area, and near Keene going on 40 years or more. The thing that always struck me, going back to the 70's was how derisively the powers that be in the state looked down their noses at UNH. I have no idea how it was back in the 40's or 50's, but I know all the stories about the Union Leader and its publisher William Loeb vis a vis UNH during the Vietnam protest days. I witnessed the total disregard that Mel Thomson had for the Seacoast when he and Aristotle Onassis proposed the oil refinery along Great Bay and the Isle of Shoals. These actions spoke to a hostility towards the Seacoast area and, by extension, UNH for several decades. The Pease Tradeport and the booming economy of Portsmouth and environs is a wonderful thing for the whole state, but my guess is that the majority of the legislature couldn't care less.

The point I'm trying to make is that the state as a whole has been dismissive of the school probably since its inception. I've often wondered if the attitude would be different if the school was located in the center of the state, somewhere between Manchester and Concord, rather that in the southeast corner. Maybe the majority of the populace would look at the school more favorably. But UNH has not helped itself over the years with a series of presidents who see UNH as a stepping stone and stay at the school for no more than 3 or 4 years at a time. Getting adequate funding for state universities in New England seems to be a tough mountain to climb, it certainly is here in Massachusetts. Maybe Huddleston will stay around long enough to make a difference, but it takes a concerted effort from those at the top - President, Board of Trustees, etc. - and UNH hasn't really shown that over the years. I'd say if the state as a whole was all in on the University mission, maybe they would be all in on the fortunes of the athletic programs.

Agree with most (if not all) of your observations, Greg. What I hope for at some point (whether in my lifetime or not) is someone with vision can harness all of the positive developments in the Seacoast region, and probably through some form of mass media initiative, really steps up and creates a regional "voice" and presence. It's taken a generation since Pease converted from public to private, which in retrospect proved to be a huge boost for the area. Portsmouth has benefited, and now UNH is in the expansion mode, and all of it is very exciting for those of us who enjoy trying to see bigger pictures. Ideally, someday (and I do think that day is coming) this region will have its own public voice and identity, and will not be beholden to the Concord/Manchester axis of media and/or state influence.