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UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part One) - Return of the "Champions of December"??

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HockeyRef said:
Chuck I'll ask here rather than copy your post... Are you thinking Ayers is a good fit for UNH? And I don't mean that in a duh kind of way with him being an alum...Gosh so much could happen the next couple of years that to speculate who could be a decent asst coach is fascinating. Speaking of Dave Lassonde while I didn't know him I have heard he was an excellent coach and recruiter. Also heard that many felt him leaving UNH spoke volumes but that's just a few people talking and I'm not trying to open a can of beans...
Click to expand...
UNH HAD 2 Head coaches until June, and nobody out recruits or out works that HC either.
 
Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part One) - Return of the "Champions of December"??

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part One) - Return of the "Champions of December"??

bomberhockey said:
UNH HAD 2 Head coaches until June, and nobody out recruits or out works that HC either.
Click to expand...

Was the *split* amicable? Was the hardest-working HC at UNH ever in the mix for the solo gig?

Pardon my directness, but I trust you won't be hesitant to share your insight on that.

Dan - thanks for elaborating on the goalie logjam and how it's evolved. I'd forgotten Robinson was originally due a year later. Just goes to show I don't follow the recruiting piece as closely as many others. :o
 
Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part One) - Return of the "Champions of December"??

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part One) - Return of the "Champions of December"??

Chuck Murray said:
Was the *split* amicable? Was the hardest-working HC at UNH ever in the mix for the solo gig?

Pardon my directness, but I trust you won't be hesitant to share your insight on that.

Dan - thanks for elaborating on the goalie logjam and how it's evolved. I'd forgotten Robinson was originally due a year later. Just goes to show I don't follow the recruiting piece as closely as many others. :o
Click to expand...

HC..as in Borek?
 
Chuck Murray said:
Was the *split* amicable? Was the hardest-working HC at UNH ever in the mix for the solo gig?

Pardon my directness, but I trust you won't be hesitant to share your insight on that.

Dan - thanks for elaborating on the goalie logjam and how it's evolved. I'd forgotten Robinson was originally due a year later. Just goes to show I don't follow the recruiting piece as closely as many others. :o
Click to expand...
Initially yes then no. Yes.
 
Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part One) - Return of the "Champions of December"??

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part One) - Return of the "Champions of December"??

bomberhockey said:
Initially yes then no. Yes.
Click to expand...

Could you lend your perspective on which party initiated the June move? DU or SB?
 
Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part One) - Return of the "Champions of December"??

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part One) - Return of the "Champions of December"??

bomberhockey said:
Colby and NEC as well.
Click to expand...

After he was dismissed at Lake State, then hired by UNH, the word around UNH was that he never wanted to be a head coach again. Since Umile knew Borek very well, I would imagine he would take him at his word. If Borek changed his mind after he saw that Umile was heading towards retirement well, too late. Those who defend Borek's work at UNH have always puzzled me. The comparison should always be one with Brian McCloskey. Scott Borek was no Brian McCloskey when it came to recruiting and the results on the ice are the proof. I have been a UNH diehard since 1970. Most of the folks I know who follow the program seriously, and have done so for many, many years, were not sad to see him leave.
 
Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part One) - Return of the "Champions of December"??

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part One) - Return of the "Champions of December"??

Thanks. Regardless of our differences on how we view Scott's legacy at UNH, he seemed a nice guy and glad he found a soft landing spot from this curious end to the Umile era.
 
Greg Ambrose said:
After he was dismissed at Lake State, then hired by UNH, the word around UNH was that he never wanted to be a head coach again. Since Umile knew Borek very well, I would imagine he would take him at his word. If Borek changed his mind after he saw that Umile was heading towards retirement well, too late. Those who defend Borek's work at UNH have always puzzled me. The comparison should always be one with Brian McCloskey. Scott Borek was no Brian McCloskey when it came to recruiting and the results on the ice are the proof. I have been a UNH diehard since 1970. Most of the folks I know who follow the program seriously, and have done so for many, many years, were not sad to see him leave.
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The word you heard was false.
You know Borek got McCloskey in the college game? And I can assure you Borek is one of the best recruiters there is. Not denigrating Brian's ability to recruit, but SB is tireless and tenacious. You look at him as the reason for the "recruiting failures" but how many number 2 picks in the draft came here before JvR? How about the 2 NHL blue liners? You blame him for the guys that got away but not credit for who did. This wasn't his program, he did what he could do to keep the wildcat competitive from his position. And the recruits that did come came here on a discount the SB negotiated, you'd be shocked at how few "full boats" were given even to some big time recruits. He was the candidate for the UMass job from sources on both sides until he was not the candidate. What would UMass look like now if the AD had pulled the trigger on THE candidate.
Take a look at how many NHL pictures are in the hall since SB came in.
Oh and I've been a fan since 1965, DII Wildcats. Before DU came as a player.
 
NCAA watcher said:
Thanks. Regardless of our differences on how we view Scott's legacy at UNH, he seemed a nice guy and glad he found a soft landing spot from this curious end to the Umile era.
Click to expand...
how come he gets the blame for failure, it wasn't his program. Unfortunately I saw the program in a way I wish now I hadn't.
 
Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part One) - Return of the "Champions of December"??

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part One) - Return of the "Champions of December"??

bomberhockey said:
Initially yes then no. Yes.
Click to expand...

Did the Ryczek (sp?) decommit have anything to do with the "yes then no" part? Cause or effect?
 
Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part One) - Return of the "Champions of December"??

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part One) - Return of the "Champions of December"??

bomberhockey said:
how come he gets the blame for failure, it wasn't his program. Unfortunately I saw the program in a way I wish now I hadn't.
Click to expand...

Fair point. And I've heard a few (not all) well-placed folks say the latter too ...
 
Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part One) - Return of the "Champions of December"??

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part One) - Return of the "Champions of December"??

bomberhockey said:
how come he gets the blame for failure, it wasn't his program. Unfortunately I saw the program in a way I wish now I hadn't.
Click to expand...

I think plenty of people are on Umile's case, but Borek is going to have to shoulder his fair share of the blame since he was given so much responsibility. We all know he's your friend and none of us have ever heard anything other than that he is a world-class human being and a hard-worker, but despite some occasional good gets UNH Hockey (and the team's overall talent level) has slowly but consistently declined to where it is now due to his failures as the lead recruiter...

Coaching is a results based business. Below is Borek's record as an associate and HC - take note of where the programs start and where they finish. (I could only find overall coaching records at Colby)

Colby
Previous Coach - 28-33-7 (.463)
Borek - 33-35-5 (.486)
Following Coach (Tortorella) - 230-138-33 (.615)

Lake State
1995-96 - 30-8-2 (Jackson)
1996-97 - 19-14-5
1997-98 - 15-18-4
1998-99 - 11-23-4
1999-00 - 18-16-2
2000-01 - 13-23-0
2001-02 - 8-27-2 (Anzalone)

New England College
2000-01 - 20-10-0 (Previous)
2001-02 - 14-11-2
2002-03 - 20-6-0 (Following)

UNH
2001-02 - 30-7-3 (McCloskey)
2002-03 - 28-8-6
2003-04 - 20-15-6
2004-05 - 26-11-5
2005-06 - 20-13-7
2006-07 - 26-11-2
2007-08 - 25-10-3
2008-09 - 20-13-5
2009-10 - 18-14-7
2010-11 - 22-11-6
2011-12 - 15-18-3
2012-13 - 20-12-7
2013-14 - 22-18-1
2014-15 - 19-19-2
2015-16 - 4-6-3 (Souza)

Umile ultimately deserves the blame as the HC (including the failures of those on his staff) and should have retired years ago, but Borek simply did not live up to his reputation as one of the best recruiters in college hockey history while at UNH. Or at Lake State, etc. Where would UMass be if they had hired Borek? Probably right where they are...
 
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Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part One) - Return of the "Champions of December"??

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part One) - Return of the "Champions of December"??

Dan said:
I think plenty of people are on Umile's case, but Borek is going to have to shoulder his fair share of the blame since he was given so much responsibility. We all know he's your friend and none of us have ever heard anything other than that he is a world-class human being and a hard-worker, but despite some occasional good gets UNH Hockey (and the team's overall talent level) has slowly but consistently declined to where it is now due to his failures as the lead recruiter...

Coaching is a results based business. Below is Borek's record as an associate and HC - take note of where the programs start and where they finish. (I could only find overall coaching records at Colby)

Colby
Previous Coach - 28-33-7 (.463)
Borek - 33-35-5 (.486)
Following Coach (Tortorella) - 230-138-33 (.615)

Lake State
1995-96 - 30-8-2 (Jackson)
1996-97 - 19-14-5
1997-98 - 15-18-4
1998-99 - 11-23-4
1999-00 - 18-16-2
2000-01 - 13-23-0
2001-02 - 8-27-2 (Anzalone)

New England College
2000-01 - 20-10-0 (Previous)
2001-02 - 14-11-2
2002-03 - 20-6-0 (Following)

UNH
2001-02 - 30-7-3 (McCloskey)
2002-03 - 28-8-6
2003-04 - 20-15-6
2004-05 - 26-11-5
2005-06 - 20-13-7
2006-07 - 26-11-2
2007-08 - 25-10-3
2008-09 - 20-13-5
2009-10 - 18-14-7
2010-11 - 22-11-6
2011-12 - 15-18-3
2012-13 - 20-12-7
2013-14 - 22-18-1
2014-15 - 19-19-2
2015-16 - 4-6-3 (Souza)

Umile ultimately deserves the blame as the HC (including the failures of those on his staff), but Borek simply did not live up to his reputation as one of the best recruiters in college hockey history while at UNH. Or at Lake State, etc. Where would UMass be if they had hired Borek? Probably right where they are...
Click to expand...

Borek isn't the only UNH coach of recent vintage who had a chance to be hired by UMass ...
 
Chuck Murray said:
Did the Ryczek (sp?) decommit have anything to do with the "yes then no" part? Cause or effect?
Click to expand...
No, everyone that decommitted did so of their own accord. "They no longer knew anyone in the program". Others may have but were advised not to, or made more whole in the commitment to them.
 
Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part One) - Return of the "Champions of December"??

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part One) - Return of the "Champions of December"??

bomberhockey said:
No, everyone that decommitted did so of their own accord. "They no longer knew anyone in the program". Others may have but were advised not to, or made more whole in the commitment to them.
Click to expand...

How recently did the "yes then no" part kick in, then? If you're comfortable offering specifics, cool - if not, then a vague timeframe would be helpful. Hard to believe the de-commits wouldn't at least be an "effect" of any post-June fallout ... which I think you kind of confirm by mentioning the quote above. I'm not sure about that last bit ("Others ... made more whole ... "), other than it sounds like offers may have had to be improved to prevent further defections???
 
Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part One) - Return of the "Champions of December"??

Re: UNH Wildcats 2015-2016 (Part One) - Return of the "Champions of December"??

Dan said:
The planned schedule for UNH goaltender's was as follows:

2014-15
SR - DeSmith
JR -
SO -
FR - Clark

2016-15
SR -
JR -
SO - Clark
FR - Tirone

2016-17
SR -
JR - Clark
SO - Tirone
FR -

2017-18
SR - Clark
JR - Tirone
SO -
FR - Robinson

The first wrench in the plan was DeSmith's incident, which forced Clark and Tirone into the same class. The plan was for Clark to back-up DeSmith as a freshman and compete with Tirone for the next three seasons. The expectation was that Tirone would prevail as the first option between the pipes, but Clark was not recruited as a career third-string goalie. The drop off from Clark to UNH third string goalies of the past and present (i.e. Reagan, Manke, Scott, Collins, etc) is HUGE. Clark was always expected to be one of UNH's two competitive goalies.

However, when a NH native and top goaltending recruit, who is coached privately by UNH's own goalie coach and at the prep level by a former UNH defenseman you don't let that kid get away. So UNH decided to deviate from its normal pattern and have a roster with three scholarship goalies in 2017-18. As this article states, Robinson was supposed to come that season, not next season, likely to begin as a backup to the upperclassmen (as is the case with any UNH player regardless of talent). If colleges could go back to mandatory freshmen redshirts, Umile would undoubtedly lead the charge...

http://www.fearthefin.com/2015/6/27...ck-as-mclellan-compensation-draft-goalie-mike

The second wrench in the plan was Robinson's development and getting drafted as highly as he did - as Watcher has explained regarding both Vela and Robinson, being drafted expedites the clock towards free-agency and puts the onus on UNH get the draft pick into school ASAP or risk losing the player to either early departure or another school/MJ (as now the Sharks have a say). As a result, Robinson ends up in the 2016-17 class and a log jam is born...

I'd expect UNH is looking for two goalies in 2018-19, a scholarship goalie with #1 potential and a third-string walk on, and another scholarship goalie in 2019-20. If Robinson did leave early (its to early to speculate either way) we'd end up seeing more accelerations.

As with any other position on the team, I don't care who minds the net as long as its the best option for the team/program to win games. If UNH continues to make playing time decisions based simply on who is older or who was expected to play a certain role, I doubt I'll make it (as in live through it) to the next goalie on the list, whoever that might be...
Click to expand...

Dan

Thanks for this...love your insight. How do you see the goaltending situation play out going forward? Also, will all three be getting full rides? If so, it seems that tying up three scholarships on goalies makes an already difficult recruiting situation that much tougher
 
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