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UNH Wildcats 2014/2015 - Wait 'Til Next Year!!!

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Dan said:
BTW - C-H-C - Blackburn is coming. If he signed his NLI (a one year document) it had to have been for 2015-16 and there's no reason to sign it unless they expect him to come..
Click to expand...

As this article explains, signing an NLI does not necessarily mean the recruit is enrolling the following fall.

Liam Blackburn understands that the decision on whether he comes in the Fall of 2015 or 2016 will probably be made at the end of this season. In interviews, Blackburn has articulated the advantages of playing one more year in the BCHL and in coming next year. If he continues to score at the current clip, my guess is he is much more likely to come to UNH next fall.
 
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Re: UNH Wildcats 2014/2015 - Wait 'Til Next Year!!!

Dan said:
Did Saviano underwhelm you when he scored 2 points as a FR? Did Colin Hemingway? Brett Hemingway? Preston Callandar? Bobby Butler? Paul Thompson? A handful of UNH freshman have finished the season in the 20 point range, but none outside of Mowers, Haydar & Collins have really blown the doors off. That's been fine because none have had too. Kelleher and this year's freshman may seem underwhelming, but only because of the expectations and responsibility they were saddled with. Kelleher had 16 points last year (at a buck-fifty soaking wet) and could be on his way to 30+ this year. Be patient, UNH has always made its living off of breakout SO and JR years while kids quietly matured and supported experienced scorers...

I'm not sure who you think was oversold? Way to early on Kelleher. Downing has had to do way too much heavy lifting on his own. The rest were unheralded fill-ins for top talent that never made it...
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Watching Downing this year and thinking back to his Freshman year is disappointing. The perspective is appreciated.

Times have changed. Until recently the first I heard or saw of recruits was during the exhibition game (Winnnik!!!). If Greg gets his "sterling reports" as I do, from scanning this thread on this forum and no where else, then I agree with him. My 1st thought on seeing Kelleher last year was how small he was, followed quickly by thinking OK, he must be a Gerbe type? Yeah. Um, no.

I do appreciate the info I get here, especially from C-H-C. Expectations come with with positive upbeat information.
 
Re: UNH Wildcats 2014/2015 - Wait 'Til Next Year!!!

C-H-C said:
As this article explains, signing an NLI does not necessarily mean the recruit is enrolling the following fall.

http://www.collegehockeynews.com/news/2014/11/12_nli_primer_the_early_signing.php

Liam Blackburn understands that the decision on whether he comes in the Fall of 2015 or 2016 will probably be made at the end of this season. In interviews, Blackburn has articulated the advantages of playing one more year in the BCHL and in coming next year. If he continues to score at the current clip, my guess is he is much more likely to come to UNH next fall.
Click to expand...

When you sign an NLI (and I'm looking at one as I type this post) there is a spot that says, "a Grant-In-Aid effective:____________". So, while I may have technically been mistaken that an NLI must represent the upcoming academic school year I do not believe you can complete the statement with "Sometime in the next four years". Again, I would be shocked if his signing did not represent that he is coming next year as it would in most cases. It absolutely must specify the 'date or period' the agreed upon aid would be effective for...

Now, a player could certainly sign an NLI and an issue might arise where both parties agree to terminate the NLI or defer NLI terms - an injury requiring another year in junior hockey, for example. I think that is what the article is getting at.

Blackburn is seemingly the only UNH recruit to sign during the early period in November. UNH has rarely signed players in the November period - I assume so they can watch players compete throughout the winter and decide who to sign in the late period next spring. Blackburn's signing to me indicates they assume he is ready - also indicated by his play - and they're bringing him in.

Again, while the article may technically be accurate (and I'll find out and inform the group) - that's not how NLI's are normally written or awarded. If they were, you'd see schools signing up all of their 18 year old or older commits (getting them off the market). Schools would also be allowed to discuss them freely, potentially defer them at a whim with big hurdles for the player if they disagreed (the player would have to go through a difficult process to show they were defered and void the NLI and be 'released') and would also put themselves in a position to be locked in to players who may not develop, might get hurt, etc...

I just don't see that happening...
 
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Darius said:
Watching Downing this year and thinking back to his Freshman year is disappointing. The perspective is appreciated.

Times have changed. Until recently the first I heard or saw of recruits was during the exhibition game (Winnnik!!!). If Greg gets his "sterling reports" as I do, from scanning this thread on this forum and no where else, then I agree with him. My 1st thought on seeing Kelleher last year was how small he was, followed quickly by thinking OK, he must be a Gerbe type? Yeah. Um, no.

I do appreciate the info I get here, especially from C-H-C. Expectations come with with positive upbeat information.
Click to expand...

When I interviewed Kelleher a month before he enrolled, I asked him about playing against NCAA competition:

"Lowry: When you think back to the games against NCAA teams last year, such as Michigan, Minnesota and UNH, what do you think it takes to succeed as a center or a winger at the NCAA level?

Kelleher: Well, I think once you get to that level, pretty much everyone can skate, can shoot and everyone is strong. I think the big difference is decision-making and hockey sense. If you look at John Gaudreau at Boston College, he’s not really that fast and he’s really small, but he outthinks everyone out there, which helps him a lot. So I think that’s an under-rated part of hockey which helps players a lot.
Lowry: Is it anticipating where the big guys are maneuvering around them.
Kelleher: Yes it's about finding open space or when your teammate is open, not trying to do too much. Just hitting him at the right time. Just feeling the game out."
 
Re: UNH Wildcats 2014/2015 - Wait 'Til Next Year!!!

Darius said:
Watching Downing this year and thinking back to his Freshman year is disappointing. The perspective is appreciated.

Times have changed. Until recently the first I heard or saw of recruits was during the exhibition game (Winnnik!!!). If Greg gets his "sterling reports" as I do, from scanning this thread on this forum and no where else, then I agree with him. My 1st thought on seeing Kelleher last year was how small he was, followed quickly by thinking OK, he must be a Gerbe type? Yeah. Um, no.

I do appreciate the info I get here, especially from C-H-C. Expectations come with with positive upbeat information.
Click to expand...

Who on the current roster do you think was oversold? The only players who came in with much of any reputation, let alone sterling were Downing, Kelleher, Pesce and the freshman forwards. I agree with Watcher that Downing and Pesce have been over exerted - they'd be great pieces if they were lining up with a typical UNH team. Imagine Downing playing with Gare and Hemingway or Butler and Thompson or even a guy like DeSimone. I saw Downing in juniors and he was a STUD when line-up with Cam Reid. What might have been...

Kelleher is a munchkin, those kids are going to take time, but he still scored 16 points last season playing the bulk of the year final 2/3s of the season on the fourth line because Umile didn't like his strength on D (he had 8 points through 15 games). Nathan Gerbe had just 18 points as a freshman forward at BC. If Kelleher continues to score at his current pace and played in the same 37 games he played in last year he'd put up 31 points - and he'd do so having to create a lot of his own offense...

That might not live up to expectations for a kid who led the USNTDP in scoring (in both seasons, I believe), but he's the least of my concerns...

Outside of Downing (who may not be scoring enough for some) no seniors came in with any hype, definitely not the junior class aside from Pesce...???
 
Re: UNH Wildcats 2014/2015 - Wait 'Til Next Year!!!

C-H-C said:
When I interviewed Kelleher a month before he enrolled, I asked him about playing against NCAA competition:

"Lowry: When you think back to the games against NCAA teams last year, such as Michigan, Minnesota and UNH, what do you think it takes to succeed as a center or a winger at the NCAA level?

Kelleher: Well, I think once you get to that level, pretty much everyone can skate, can shoot and everyone is strong. I think the big difference is decision-making and hockey sense. If you look at John Gaudreau at Boston College, he’s not really that fast and he’s really small, but he outthinks everyone out there, which helps him a lot. So I think that’s an under-rated part of hockey which helps players a lot.
Lowry: Is it anticipating where the big guys are maneuvering around them.
Kelleher: Yes it's about finding open space or when your teammate is open, not trying to do too much. Just hitting him at the right time. Just feeling the game out."
Click to expand...
Thanks. It would be interesting hearing his current perspective on that. He's gotten stronger and likely realized he can shoot (score) better than most of this year's 'cats. Regarding Gaudreau, I don't recall too many people catching him. Thinking is good. :)

BTW - I like Kelleher as a player, got a little caught up in the hype.
 
Darius said:
Thanks. It would be interesting hearing his current perspective on that. He's gotten stronger and likely realized he can shoot (score) better than most of this year's 'cats. Regarding Gaudreau, I don't recall too many people catching him. Thinking is good. :)

BTW - I like Kelleher as a player, got a little caught up in the hype.
Click to expand...
If I was thinking better on my feet when I was interviewing him, I would have asked: "So your style of play is more like Gaudreau than Gerbe?"
 
Re: UNH Wildcats 2014/2015 - Wait 'Til Next Year!!!

Oh and by the way, I have no problem with Kelleher at all. The kid works his arse off, has a good scoring touch and has a lot of courage for his size. He's fun to watch and I'd put him on my team any day!
 
Re: UNH Wildcats 2014/2015 - Wait 'Til Next Year!!!

Dan said:
When you sign an NLI (and I'm looking at one as I type this post) there is a spot that says, "a Grant-In-Aid effective:____________". So, while I may have technically been mistaken that an NLI must represent the upcoming academic school year I do not believe you can complete the statement with "Sometime in the next four years". Again, I would be shocked if his signing did not represent that he is coming next year as it would in most cases. It absolutely must specify the 'date or period' the agreed upon aid would be effective for...

Now, a player could certainly sign an NLI and an issue might arise where both parties agree to terminate the NLI or defer NLI terms - an injury requiring another year in junior hockey, for example. I think that is what the article is getting at.

Blackburn is seemingly the only UNH recruit to sign during the early period in November. UNH has rarely signed players in the November period - I assume so they can watch players compete throughout the winter and decide who to sign in the late period next spring. Blackburn's signing to me indicates they assume he is ready - also indicated by his play - and they're bringing him in.

Again, while the article may technically be accurate (and I'll find out and inform the group) - that's not how NLI's are normally written or awarded. If they were, you'd see schools signing up all of their 18 year old or older commits (getting them off the market). Schools would also be allowed to discuss them freely, potentially defer them at a whim with big hurdles for the player if they disagreed (the player would have to go through a difficult process to show they were defered and void the NLI and be 'released') and would also put themselves in a position to be locked in to players who may not develop, might get hurt, etc...

I just don't see that happening...
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure that Mike McMahon, who covers Hockey East and writes The Mack Report is the primary author of that College Hockey News article.
 
Re: UNH Wildcats 2014/2015 - Wait 'Til Next Year!!!

Dan said:
Who on the current roster do you think was oversold? The only players who came in with much of any reputation, let alone sterling were Downing, Kelleher, Pesce and the freshman forwards. I agree with Watcher that Downing and Pesce have been over exerted - they'd be great pieces if they were lining up with a typical UNH team. Imagine Downing playing with Gare and Hemingway or Butler and Thompson or even a guy like DeSimone. I saw Downing in juniors and he was a STUD when line-up with Cam Reid. What might have been...

Kelleher is a munchkin, those kids are going to take time, but he still scored 16 points last season playing the bulk of the year final 2/3s of the season on the fourth line because Umile didn't like his strength on D (he had 8 points through 15 games). Nathan Gerbe had just 18 points as a freshman forward at BC. If Kelleher continues to score at his current pace and played in the same 37 games he played in last year he'd put up 31 points - and he'd do so having to create a lot of his own offense...

That might not live up to expectations for a kid who led the USNTDP in scoring (in both seasons, I believe), but he's the least of my concerns...

Outside of Downing (who may not be scoring enough for some) no seniors came in with any hype, definitely not the junior class aside from Pesce...???
Click to expand...

Back in 2011, there were three forwards committed to UNH with a target of Fall 2013 to enroll - Tyler Kelleher, Michael McNicholas, and Jordan Masters. McNicholas, his family, and the UNH coaches decided to have him play one more year in the BCHL. Jordan Masters, who had some impressive credentials, and the UNH coaches decided to part ways. Masters and his family are entitled to their privacy and no reasons were stated publicly. Masters is playing well for the West Kelowna Warriors (6 goals, 13 assists in 19 games) - he's teammates with Liam Blackburn - and will very likely have other Division I opportunities.
 
C-H-C said:
I'm pretty sure that Mike McMahon, who covers Hockey East and writes The Mack Report is the primary author of that College Hockey News article.
Click to expand...

Hey may have - but I work in college athletics recruiting and offering scholarships for a living and I've never heard of anything like that. Again, rules change all the time and vary sport to sport but based on what I know about NLIs and what I see in the actions of college hockey coaches, athletic depts and SIDs this doesn't jibe. I'm not saying it's not written with some lenience or even exactly as you interpret it but in addition to seeing the rule I'd love to hear of a single example where a player signs an NLI that doesn't specify an enrollment date and I doubt there are many if any that indicate a school year two or more down the road.

If it was how the process worked than why didn't UNH sign Kalinowski or BVR or Miller or any other prospect in their senior year or older? Why aren't other schools signing and promoting the signing of players years ahead of time?

Again, I think what is being read in the rule is language that allows for some flexibility due to issues faced with playing post-grad junior hockey. But I'd be pretty comfortable guessig that 100% of the players who sign do so for the next school year and 99% of the time that's when they enroll.

The possibility exists in any sport for injury, in eligibility or extenuating circumstances that could void or defer an NLI - but that doesn't really change the fundamental purpose of the document or how they are used and issued.
 
C-H-C said:
Back in 2011, there were three forwards committed to UNH with a target of Fall 2013 to enroll - Tyler Kelleher, Michael McNicholas, and Jordan Masters. McNicholas, his family, and the UNH coaches decided to have him play one more year in the BCHL. Jordan Masters, who had some impressive credentials, and the UNH coaches decided to part ways. Masters and his family are entitled to their privacy and no reasons were stated publicly. Masters is playing well for the West Kelowna Warriors (6 goals, 13 assists in 19 games) - he's teammates with Liam Blackburn - and will very likely have other Division I opportunities.
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Correct - chalk up Masters as another in the log list of talent that never arrived and had to be replaced. How does that impact the issue of overselling recruits? Kelleher has been discussed, McNicholas just got here and Masters never arrived to fail to meet any expectations.

Like I said, I think the issue UNH is facing is all the lost recruits that left the cupboard bare and filled with second choices. I think this is a point for that argument if anything.
 
Re: UNH Wildcats 2014/2015 - Wait 'Til Next Year!!!

Dan said:
When you sign an NLI (and I'm looking at one as I type this post) there is a spot that says, "a Grant-In-Aid effective:____________". So, while I may have technically been mistaken that an NLI must represent the upcoming academic school year I do not believe you can complete the statement with "Sometime in the next four years". Again, I would be shocked if his signing did not represent that he is coming next year as it would in most cases. It absolutely must specify the 'date or period' the agreed upon aid would be effective for...

Now, a player could certainly sign an NLI and an issue might arise where both parties agree to terminate the NLI or defer NLI terms - an injury requiring another year in junior hockey, for example. I think that is what the article is getting at.

Blackburn is seemingly the only UNH recruit to sign during the early period in November. UNH has rarely signed players in the November period - I assume so they can watch players compete throughout the winter and decide who to sign in the late period next spring. Blackburn's signing to me indicates they assume he is ready - also indicated by his play - and they're bringing him in.

Again, while the article may technically be accurate (and I'll find out and inform the group) - that's not how NLI's are normally written or awarded. If they were, you'd see schools signing up all of their 18 year old or older commits (getting them off the market). Schools would also be allowed to discuss them freely, potentially defer them at a whim with big hurdles for the player if they disagreed (the player would have to go through a difficult process to show they were defered and void the NLI and be 'released') and would also put themselves in a position to be locked in to players who may not develop, might get hurt, etc...

I just don't see that happening...
Click to expand...

Last year, Dylan Chanter, Shane Eiserman and Cameron Marks signed an NLI during the early signing period in November. That was before Warren Foegele's NHL stock was on the rise, otherwise, he might have signed one as well.
 
Re: UNH Wildcats 2014/2015 - Wait 'Til Next Year!!!

Dan said:
Correct - chalk up Masters as another in the log list of talent that never arrived and had to be replaced. How does that impact the issue of overselling recruits? Kelleher has been discussed, McNicholas just got here and Masters never arrived to fail to meet any expectations.

Like I said, I think the issue UNH is facing is all the lost recruits that left the cupboard bare and filled with second choices. I think this is a point for that argument if anything.
Click to expand...

I think you may be misunderstanding what I'm saying. I'm not saying that Mike McMahon is the ultimate authority on NLI's and college hockey. I was just identifying the source of the information I referred to in my blog post. Neither am I saying that UNH hasn't had issues with talented recruits not making it to campus - a topic I wrote about three years ago when Mike Vecchione opted out of his verbal commitment with UNH (Part I and Part II) Otherwise, I wouldn't have reminded fans about Jordan Masters.
 
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Re: UNH Wildcats 2014/2015 - Wait 'Til Next Year!!!

Great day of posts to this thread. Nice to see a lot of you folks back on board, keep it coming. :)
 
Re: UNH Wildcats 2014/2015 - Wait 'Til Next Year!!!

I agree with Chuck; great stuff, and it took me a while to catch up on just one day's worth of posts. I had better plan on an entire day of reading to catch up on six weeks of posts in late January. This thread could have over 3000 posts by then, no?
 
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