What's new
USCHO Fan Forum

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • The USCHO Fan Forum has migrated to a new plaform, xenForo. Most of the function of the forum should work in familiar ways. Please note that you can switch between light and dark modes by clicking on the gear icon in the upper right of the main menu bar. We are hoping that this new platform will prove to be faster and more reliable. Please feel free to explore its features.

UNH Wildcats 2013-14 Season Thread

Status
Not open for further replies.
Re: UNH Wildcats 2013-14 Season Thread

No offense taken, Ryan. :) I know sometimes I'm my own worst enemy (and that's not even including predicting losing game scores correctly :( ;) ) but I do try to put some "meat on the bones" in discussing issues. I think (hope?) it gives us more to discuss. I'm probably about to "do a Chuck" again, so hang in there and we'll get through it. :)

So ... on to HockeyRef's post from earlier today, which brings us to the brink of some past popular (and at times polarizing) topics:

Today's Foster's story speaks volumes about our inability to just close it out when it matters. I applaud Capt. Eric K on his candidness when he speaks about the teams struggles with this. He says in this article that they 'weren't ready for the intensity of playing in the Alfond'. I'm bewildered by this; they HAD to know that Maine would bring it and it's not like Maine was playing out of their minds..but they DID...when they had to. Sure their barn is quite the electric place and it lives up to what I heard about it going in...if it weren't so far away I'd love to go back to future 'Cats v Maine games up there. That being said, my husband has grumbled about how the 'Cats don't bring their A game every night...hockey east bloggers say "I can't figure out UNH". Welp...its been the case this year and what they have in front of them is not a herculean task to get to the Garden but it can become one if they don't bring it and take care of business down the stretch, as you say. Maybe it's the chemistry of this team?? Please understand I know this sounds negative and make no mistake I'm a huge fan of the team.

Those are some very tough - and very appropriate - questions. Some would say or suggest they are recurring questions, not just with this team, but with past UNH teams. And it seems these questions come up more often than not at this time of the season, and even more often in recent seasons.

Some would say that the recurrence of these issues over and over points you in the direction of the constant(s) in the equation, as opposed to the variables. Players change. For the most part, the coaches have not. Certainly the administration has not changed, but some of their policies have apparently changed. Arguably, the changes in admission policies may have impacted the talent level the coaches can effectively recruit. Some would say that on-ice results serve as the best recruiting tool of all - regardless of policy issues.

Others would suggest the constant - Coach Umile - is not a constant, age-wise. He is getting older than his players every year, and it is possible (and somewhat understandable) that in his mid-60's now, he is not able to relate as well to his players as he was when he first took the top job in Durham in his early 40's (with a year or two as an assistant under Coach Kullen before that). Look at the guys in the league now who are the emerging coaching stars ... Coach Leaman at PC is approaching 40 (if not there quite yet - I'm not sure?) and Coach Bazin at UML is in his early 40's. Coach Dennehy (MC) was also in his early 40's when he began Merrimack's turnaround (not withstanding this year's slump). Is there something to that? Could be. But Coach York and Coach Parker won the NCAA's when they were Coach Umile's age. Some would say they refreshed their assistants to keep them young and energized.

I'm not sure there are any easy answers, although I know there are a lot of folks who feel very strongly about why the UNH Men's Hockey program is where it is, and why these issues keep coming up. I used to be one of those folks too ... and while I do have an opinion or two on the questions, I'm less certain on those than I have been in the past. Maybe it does come down to expectations, and whether you feel:

* UNH should do everything possible to compete consistently at the highest level of D-1, as they did in the late '90's/early '00's; or
* UNH should be satisfied to be at the "second tier", where making the D-1 tourney is a good season, winning a HE title every decade or so is acceptable, and *maybe someday* you "catch lightning in a bottle" and win the whole enchilada (see Harvard, 1989).

We usually have this discussion right around this time of the season, and then again for the first few weeks of the offseason, after which we go away for a few months, hope/pray for divine intervention, and come the Fall it's usually same old, same old, with a few different players in to replace the departing players. We have posters who spend a lot of time assessing and reporting on incoming recruits, and while that's interesting and helpful ... you never know for sure until (1) the player actually arrives on campus, and (2) they begin to develop and find themselves at this "next level". God knows there have been many so-called "busts" over the years, while I don't recall too many doing cartwheels over a kid like Bobby Butler until well into his UNH career. More of those pesky variables. :)

So hopefully this just frames some of the issues HockeyRef's post raised. And despite some of those who feel even raising questions like these is "negative" ... I'd respectfully disagree, and suggest that if you've been around this program for long enough, you would almost have to be ... um, er, well ... kinda like an ostrich sticking their head in the sand NOT to at least have these questions.

I'm getting that "Groundhog's Day" feeling again, and go figure - it's actually coming up less than a week from now ... :eek: ;)
 
Re: UNH Wildcats 2013-14 Season Thread

So I know there's been some talk about the lack of finishers on the team and it got me thinking. And maybe you guys have already discussed this before but do you know that UNH does not have a drafted forward on their team? The previous two seasons it was only Greg Burke, who didn't play much last year b/c of an injury. I was kind of surprised by that so I did some digging (and let me know if I'm wrong but I think it's accurate) and I had to go back to the 1979-80 team to find another instance where UNH did not have a forward on the team who was drafted. Although after that season 2 current players got drafted (Brickley & Jay Miller). Now I understand having drafted players isn't the be all, end all and it's really not a big deal UNH doesn't have one this year(At least it shouldn't necessarily be). And I'm not trying to make a huge deal/ complain about the simple fact that there aren't any drafted forwards but it does kind of speak to the teams that have been put out recently. Now being drafted doesn't always mean the player will work out in college. Just consider Greg Burke who only put up 24 points in his first 3 years. And there are also great college players who never even get drafted (Krog is a big one that comes to mind. Why wasn't he drafted?? Nuts.). I get that. And you can still have a good team without draft picks (Ferris St.: 0 total & Union: 0 forwards). Now on the other spectrum draftees don't guarantee success (CC: 5, BU: 7, Harvard: 8). But it definitely helps. If you look at that top level of competition in college hockey (BC, Mich., Minni., North Dak.) they all have a lot of draft picks and to a certain degree it is indicative of just how good they are.

Now I remember when UNH would have 5-10 draftees. Easy. Those were the days. Now this all kinda ties in with what NCAA Watcher has posted before, that current UNH players were not top scorers in the USHL. Now I'm just wondering why UNH isn't getting that top echelon of talent anymore. I know there's a lot of reasons. There is a lot of parity in college hockey now. There are a lot of good teams today that weren't always in the past. It's not just the perennial powerhouses that dominate(which I think is great for college hockey and hockey in gen.). Although those teams are still good there are a lot of other real good teams. Just look at the success of the ECAC recently. Basically college hockey is just getting way more competitive and recruiting must be a challenge. Competing with other college teams and major juniors. And having kids committing at such young ages poses challenges. Sometimes they just don't pan out/ develop like teams think they will.

Anyway, all teams have to deal with the same challenges and those "national powerhouses" are still getting those great players. Sometimes one team has 10-15 that are drafted(Minni is just unfair with the Minn. pipeline of talent). Just why is it then that UNH isn't getting that talent anymore? I feel like there's plenty of good players to go around, UNH is a good school and has a good hockey history but UNH is missing out....

Look at the production this year vs. talented teams...

Overall: 14-13-1

___________Record____Avg. Goal For______Avg. Goal Against________Dif._____
Vs. top 10 : 1-7-1 **********1.666********************3******************-1.333

Vs. 11-20 : 5-5-0**********3.2 (+1.6)*****************2.8 (-0.2)************+0.04

vs. NR : 8-1-0**********4.444(+1.2)****************1.77(-1.1)************+2.674

Last two weekends they have averaged 1.75 GPG. 2 goals in two games vs. #6 Union and 5 goals in 2 games vs. #20 Maine.

Just look at this production compared to team defense. Against 1-10 teams the GAA is 3 (Not bad since BC, Minni, Union(0 forwards drafted) are 1-3 in team offense averaging over 3.5 GPG) and against teams 11-20 the GAA is 2.8. So the defense is pretty consistent among top 20 teams. Now on the flip side... the offense is averaging 1.66 GPG against teams 1-10(Only QU and Lowell have GAA under 2 as a point of reference). Then they make a big jump to 3.2 against teams 11-20. So the offense is just not producing against the top teams in the country. I think that's indicative of the type of team UNH is(11-20). I think they're better then their record suggests but not a top 10 team. Now I don't know what's changed or what they need to do to get the players they were getting 10 years ago. But until they do, they will just be a 11-20 team and may make the tournament one year and not the next... I don't want to be satisfied just making the tournament...


Now the good news is that it looks like this short 'draftee drought' is going to end next year. Because it looks like Eiserman and Foegele will be drafted in the spring and will join UNH next year. And it sounds like there could be a couple other real good forwards/ scorers coming in next year as well. Here's hoping UNH can continue to get those types of players and get back to the glory days.

Wow. sorry for the essay guys. Looks like I pulled a Chuck (No offense Chuck. I like your posts). I was just surprised UNH doesn't have a current forward already drafted and that snapped a 30+ year streak so I thought I'd share. UNH could certainly still develop players and have real good teams without having drafted players but drafted players or not the production needs to go up somehow against good teams because putting 9 up against UMass just isn't as good as putting 9 up against BC...

But the last time UNH had two drafted forwards on their team (2010-11: DeSimone & Burke) they went to the Garden. Not saying that's the reason why since Burke only had 3 points all year. Still need a good all around team and production from a variety of people but just trying to think positive!!


That's next year though... We still got this year and we still have a good team. So with a strong finish we could still get to the Garden. Cats just need to take care of business down the stretch here!


A lot of good points Ryan. I've wondered about some of the same issues myself. For example; It floors me that Harvard has 8 draft picks. Yes I know Harvard is an awesome school but are there that many geniuses out there who are good enough to get drafted? Or could it be that while UNH is making admissions standards tougher, schools like Harvard are lowering admissions standards? I don't even want to go near the "Need based" aid versus scholarship discussion but who is kidding who(m) here:confused:;)
 
Re: UNH Wildcats 2013-14 Season Thread

Oh. Wow. Like I said...I continue to learn. There is obviously a lot in the mix when players decide where they are playing. Am I correct that we have a great in coming class for next season? I'm sure admissions has a lot to do with the puzzle thought I read that was a frustration Dave Lassonde had. But I'm sure Yale doesn't recruit guys who are going there for basket weaving 101...;)

About a decade ago we had a highly touted forward who after a couple of seasons did not think academics were strong enough for him at UNH, so transferred to Yale, and then transferred back. :confused:
 
Re: UNH Wildcats 2013-14 Season Thread

No offense taken, Ryan. :) I know sometimes I'm my own worst enemy (and that's not even including predicting losing game scores correctly :( ;) ) but I do try to put some "meat on the bones" in discussing issues. I think (hope?) it gives us more to discuss. I'm probably about to "do a Chuck" again, so hang in there and we'll get through it. :)

So ... on to HockeyRef's post from earlier today, which brings us to the brink of some past popular (and at times polarizing) topics:



Those are some very tough - and very appropriate - questions. Some would say or suggest they are recurring questions, not just with this team, but with past UNH teams. And it seems these questions come up more often than not at this time of the season, and even more often in recent seasons.

Some would say that the recurrence of these issues over and over points you in the direction of the constant(s) in the equation, as opposed to the variables. Players change. For the most part, the coaches have not. Certainly the administration has not changed, but some of their policies have apparently changed. Arguably, the changes in admission policies may have impacted the talent level the coaches can effectively recruit. Some would say that on-ice results serve as the best recruiting tool of all - regardless of policy issues.

Others would suggest the constant - Coach Umile - is not a constant, age-wise. He is getting older than his players every year, and it is possible (and somewhat understandable) that in his mid-60's now, he is not able to relate as well to his players as he was when he first took the top job in Durham in his early 40's (with a year or two as an assistant under Coach Kullen before that). Look at the guys in the league now who are the emerging coaching stars ... Coach Leaman at PC is approaching 40 (if not there quite yet - I'm not sure?) and Coach Bazin at UML is in his early 40's. Coach Dennehy (MC) was also in his early 40's when he began Merrimack's turnaround (not withstanding this year's slump). Is there something to that? Could be. But Coach York and Coach Parker won the NCAA's when they were Coach Umile's age. Some would say they refreshed their assistants to keep them young and energized.

I'm not sure there are any easy answers, although I know there are a lot of folks who feel very strongly about why the UNH Men's Hockey program is where it is, and why these issues keep coming up. I used to be one of those folks too ... and while I do have an opinion or two on the questions, I'm less certain on those than I have been in the past. Maybe it does come down to expectations, and whether you feel:

* UNH should do everything possible to compete consistently at the highest level of D-1, as they did in the late '90's/early '00's; or
* UNH should be satisfied to be at the "second tier", where making the D-1 tourney is a good season, winning a HE title every decade or so is acceptable, and *maybe someday* you "catch lightning in a bottle" and win the whole enchilada (see Harvard, 1989).

We usually have this discussion right around this time of the season, and then again for the first few weeks of the offseason, after which we go away for a few months, hope/pray for divine intervention, and come the Fall it's usually same old, same old, with a few different players in to replace the departing players. We have posters who spend a lot of time assessing and reporting on incoming recruits, and while that's interesting and helpful ... you never know for sure until (1) the player actually arrives on campus, and (2) they begin to develop and find themselves at this "next level". God knows there have been many so-called "busts" over the years, while I don't recall too many doing cartwheels over a kid like Bobby Butler until well into his UNH career. More of those pesky variables. :)

So hopefully this just frames some of the issues HockeyRef's post raised. And despite some of those who feel even raising questions like these is "negative" ... I'd respectfully disagree, and suggest that if you've been around this program for long enough, you would almost have to be ... um, er, well ... kinda like an ostrich sticking their head in the sand NOT to at least have these questions.

I'm getting that "Groundhog's Day" feeling again, and go figure - it's actually coming up less than a week from now ... :eek: ;)


"It may be hard for an egg to turn into a bird: it would be a jolly sight harder for it to learn to fly while remaining an egg. We are like eggs at present. And you cannot go on indefinitely being just an ordinary, decent egg. We must be hatched or go bad."
C. S. Lewis
 
Re: UNH Wildcats 2013-14 Season Thread

That is an interesting quote! Sooo I just listened to the UNH Athletics Coaches show with Coach U and Kevin G...heard insight into the weekend and they are preparing for NDame. Mentioned that we'd be playing UMaine 4 times next year; one at each place and 1 Verizon and 1 game in Portland so that's shorter for me :) Turns out too that Kyle Smith is out with a concussion (wondered up was up with him?) and will not play this weekend. What should we expect from the Irish?
 
Re: UNH Wildcats 2013-14 Season Thread

Kyle Smith's injury shows, yet again, just how vulnerable centermen are. Over the last two seasons, a number of UNH centers have been injured and out of the lineup including Goumas, Downing, Silengo, Camper, Burke, and now Smith.
 
Re: UNH Wildcats 2013-14 Season Thread

"It may be hard for an egg to turn into a bird: it would be a jolly sight harder for it to learn to fly while remaining an egg. We are like eggs at present. And you cannot go on indefinitely being just an ordinary, decent egg. We must be hatched or go bad."
C. S. Lewis

If anyone wonders why sonar is the "mystic curmudgeon" on this site, I think this pretty much sums it up. :)

Just for spits and giggles, I asked both of our daughters to read that quote, and give me their translations. Our eldest read my bit that prompted the quote, and wanted to know where I got the extra mushrooms for my two lunchtime pizza slices ... while the youngest is absolutely convinced sonar just accused Coach Umile of being fat. :eek: ;) :eek: Kids, as they used to say, say the darndest things. :o
 
Re: UNH Wildcats 2013-14 Season Thread

Kyle Smith's injury shows, yet again, just how vulnerable centermen are. Over the last two seasons, a number of UNH centers have been injured and out of the lineup including Goumas, Downing, Silengo, Camper, Burke, and now Smith.

He (Smith) was having a decent enough season too and I thought he worked very hard out there..looking forward to having him return for the Vermont games...YES I remember seeing Goumas being hit at the Regionals last year...Downing, too..my introduction to this kind of stuff. Oddly enough at a Monarchs game this year I notice that the player who hit Kev that night is now a Monarch but of course, that's hockey..:p
 
Re: UNH Wildcats 2013-14 Season Thread

About a decade ago we had a highly touted forward who after a couple of seasons did not think academics were strong enough for him at UNH, so transferred to Yale, and then transferred back. :confused:
Ah yes....the infamous Eddie C.-ya :p
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top