UNH Wildcats 2013-14 Season Thread (Part 2)

[Ryan422]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2013-14 Season Thread (Part 2)

Ummm....okay? Is that supposed to discredit the arguments he was making?

The foreign language requirement issue was brought up earlier in the thread and somebody dismissed it as trivial. I thought it was relevant, seeing as Ciocco had previously addressed that very argument in detail.

Okay if people are going to use this as a legitimate reason for the lack of success on the ice then there needs to be some clarification/ facts. I'm not closely involved in the team or school so I don't know all the facts.

It sounds like this issue is more about 'special admits' for athletes than it is about the specific second language requirement. I don't know a ton about special admits but I know it goes on. I know it has become a big thing at big football/basketball schools. I think some football schools will have 50-75 percent of their players are special admits. But I don't know or haven't heard a lot about special admits for hockey players around the nation. I'm sure it goes on and it probably goes on a lot at some schools. Every school does not have special admits for athletes though(I'm sure a lot do, probably most would be my guess). Someone used a hypothetical with a recruit saying 10 schools want an athlete. 9 will use special admits and UNH would not. So what I was asking was some info to back that claim up. Now if anyone has this information it'd be interesting to look at. If no one does and someone has some spare time on their hands to maybe look at hockey east or top 20 schools and what their policy is on special admits for athletes to back up this claim. That'd be cool. If someone could gather their policy and how many athletes (preferably hockey players) are special admits. It may be hard to get all schools since private schools don't need to release that information.

Now what I'm really interested in is UNH and what their policy is. I admit I don't know really anything about this policy so if someone could fill me in and point me to some school paperwork/references to back it up.(UNH is a public university so this info is supposed to be available to the public) If no one does maybe someday when I have some time I'll try to find out but if someone has this info now, offer it up:
1) Has UNH ever had special admits for athletes?
3) If they did, what year did they get rid of special admits?
4) If they used to have them, how many athletes(preferably hockey players) were special admits each year? (It'd be interesting to compare # of special admits to success each year.)
5) What year did they change the language requirement from 1 to 2?

Now if UNH used to have special admits(Say from '95-'05) then certainly that could be a major cause for the lack of talent on the team. Certainly if the facts show that, for example, in 1999 & 2003 50 percent of the team was special admits and now it's zero.

Now if UNH has never had special admits for athletes then I'm still skeptical about changing the language requirement from 1 to 2 as being a major reason for the lack of talent/success for UNH. It certainly effects getting some recruits once in awhile though for sure. I'm not that ignorant. But I have posted on this subject before and I think I have made some good points. I know people have made up their mind and wont change their opinion. That's cool, I get that. And Ciocco made some really good points as well. But not all kids do the bare minimum to graduate high school. And in another hypothetical... I'm a good athlete or my son is. He's a really good hockey player and wants to play in college, good enough for D1. Going into high school I know colleges require 2 years of a language and I don't know a school will give me a special admit so I would want to get my two years of a language out of the way my first two years in HS. Now certainly some players who are really, really good may do the bare minimum to graduate HS and just rely on a special admit to whatever school they can. Probably wouldn't be too hard if you're that good. Maybe I'm way off in my 2 hypotheticals since I've never been a D1 coach or D1 recruit but I don't think it's unrealistic. But my guess is UNH isn't losing these real top quality players 'just' because of the language/ special admit policy if the alternative for a kid is to go play at Michigan/N. Dakota/Minn. Maybe they do and miss out on a good recruit here and there because he doesn't want to or hasn't taken 2 years of a language. I'll give you that. But that's not really something you can quantify in either direction. All teams/ schools miss out on or get recruits for a variety of reasons.

But in general I feel like there is plenty of talent out there in Canada & U.S. to field a good team who meet UNH admissions requirements. It's not like UNH is an Ivy league schools w/ Ivy league admission requirements who doesn't have special admits for athletes that pretty much results in not being able to recruit anyone and can't field a competitive team.


But this issue of lack of talent isn't only about the second language requirement and getting players from BC. Why isn't UNH getting top players from the U.S. anymore? Like Massachusetts. Can't blame that on the language requirement. But if there's been a change in the special admissions policy for athletes(???) then that is a debate I can get on board with.

 

[freak]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2013-14 Season Thread (Part 2)

It does sound like any "special admits" policy has changed. It has becoming a running joke on the boards, but according to Ciocco (who is close to his family), after he decommitted from NU, Gaudreau had a strong interest in UNH. Gaudreau's best friend is a Wildcat. But according to Ciocco, admissions wouldn't even look at his application because it was past the deadline and they had already refused other sports as well.

 

[C-H-C]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2013-14 Season Thread (Part 2)

But this issue of lack of talent isn't only about the second language requirement and getting players from BC. Why isn't UNH getting top players from the U.S. anymore? Like Massachusetts.

I applaud your passion and the articulate presentation of your concerns/questions. As for the future, Shane Eiserman is likely to be drafted by an NHL team this June and most would consider him a "top player". He is from West Newbury, MA and will be at UNH next fall.

Ara Nazarian, a junior at Malden Catholic, is considered a top player from Massachusetts. He is on track to come to UNH in either 2015 or 16.

UNH will never become the most desirable destination for most of the top players who grow up inside Interstate 495 in eastern Massachusetts. Those type of players will prefer to play at BC and/or BU - or Harvard if the kid excels at academics.

It's a reasonable expectation for UNH to recruit one top player from Massachusetts every year. BTW, although many consider Western Mass a part of New York State, Tyler Kelleher is from Longmeadow, MA. He was the top scorer for both the US NTDP Under-17 and Under-18 teams before he came to UNH.

 

[Chuck Murray]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2013-14 Season Thread (Part 2)

I applaud your passion and the articulate presentation of your concerns/questions. As for the future, Shane Eiserman is likely to be drafted by an NHL team this June and most would consider him a "top player". He is from West Newbury, MA and will be at UNH next fall.

Too bad Shane's first name wasn't "Steve" instead. Listening to the PA at The Whitt over the next few years promises to be a throwback blast regardless for this long-time Red Wings' diehard.

 

[scoreboard]

Ummm....okay? Is that supposed to discredit the arguments he was making?

The foreign language requirement issue was brought up earlier in the thread and somebody dismissed it as trivial. I thought it was relevant, seeing as Ciocco had previously addressed that very argument in detail.

The foreign language requirement is trivial. Most schools require 2 years now. Not to mention, you can't compare policies of the 90's to today. The world is much more global now. Also, UNH players seem to have a more likely chance of playing pro in Europe than they do in America. Knowing a second language may actually be helpful to their future.

 

[thegeese]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2013-14 Season Thread (Part 2)

Let me pass along what I sawfrom the games this past weekend. If you go back and watch the video archive from the weekend broadcasts please notice that UNH had a hard time catching passes, winning board battles, winning faceoffs, winning foot races to the puck all weekend. Say what you may about your likes or dislikes about this team, those are not normal characteristics of this bunch. Compare that to the ND weekend when they won a high % of faceoffs and board battles etc. They controlled all of those situations that weekend. This Team physically hit their wall this weekend. Watch the archive. A tired player has problems handling passes, reaction times are slower, don't have the leg strength to win the board battles. I noticed situations when players were falling down just by trying to take hard turns to get back in the play. Tired players are slow to read and react to game situations as well. I thought that they were gased from their first shift Friday night. It happens. Vermont is not a team with abnormal size or exceptional footspeed. They don't really have any players that are likely to be placed on the All Hockey East team etc. Their defense is of average speed and size, and they have as many smallish forwards as UNH does. But they were fresh and rejuvenated. With the injury situations, ( not making excuses just using it as reference) the 3 oldest Def have been skating well in excess of 30 minutes a night for the past 3 weekends. The bottom 3 haven't picked up any additional on their share of reps in that time. Tough to keep up with long term. They key forwards are also getting exorbident time as well. They have had a tough post holiday stretch- Hoilday tournament- 2 against UNO- 2 against Union- 2 against Maine- 2 against ND- 2 against Vermont. Must be easy to play only 2 games a week? They practice hard 4 days a week- with old school coaches- ban the water bottle style- if 5 side boards is good for you then 10 must be better. Happens to every team- check the Bruins schedule out- I am sure they have had some unexplainable games. Vermont was off last weekend- do you think they had to put out as much energy last weekend as UNH did? Doesn't take much effort to pop open a Natty light.
The sky isn't falling down and the end of the world is not this week. Hopefully they can get their legs underneath them and get things going back in the right direction again. It is unfortunate, but the empty weekend they have coming up is in 2 weeks, and they face Merrimack and the playoffs after that. Hindsight says it would have been great to have had that last week or the week before. Don't question their intensity or enthusiasm. They care more than you do about results. There is not a person there that doesn't care.

 

[freak]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2013-14 Season Thread (Part 2)

The foreign language requirement is trivial. Most schools require 2 years now. Not to mention, you can't compare policies of the 90's to today. The world is much more global now. Also, UNH players seem to have a more likely chance of playing pro in Europe than they do in America. Knowing a second language may actually be helpful to their future.

I think that the point is that UNH admissions will not budge on the requirement, while other schools might treat it more as a guideline if the student brings something else (hockey, in this case) to the table.

 

[HockeyRef]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2013-14 Season Thread (Part 2)

Let me pass along what I sawfrom the games this past weekend. If you go back and watch the video archive from the weekend broadcasts please notice that UNH had a hard time catching passes, winning board battles, winning faceoffs, winning foot races to the puck all weekend. Say what you may about your likes or dislikes about this team, those are not normal characteristics of this bunch. Compare that to the ND weekend when they won a high % of faceoffs and board battles etc. They controlled all of those situations that weekend. This Team physically hit their wall this weekend. Watch the archive. A tired player has problems handling passes, reaction times are slower, don't have the leg strength to win the board battles. I noticed situations when players were falling down just by trying to take hard turns to get back in the play. Tired players are slow to read and react to game situations as well. I thought that they were gased from their first shift Friday night. It happens. Vermont is not a team with abnormal size or exceptional footspeed. They don't really have any players that are likely to be placed on the All Hockey East team etc. Their defense is of average speed and size, and they have as many smallish forwards as UNH does. But they were fresh and rejuvenated. With the injury situations, ( not making excuses just using it as reference) the 3 oldest Def have been skating well in excess of 30 minutes a night for the past 3 weekends. The bottom 3 haven't picked up any additional on their share of reps in that time. Tough to keep up with long term. They key forwards are also getting exorbident time as well. They have had a tough post holiday stretch- Hoilday tournament- 2 against UNO- 2 against Union- 2 against Maine- 2 against ND- 2 against Vermont. Must be easy to play only 2 games a week? They practice hard 4 days a week- with old school coaches- ban the water bottle style- if 5 side boards is good for you then 10 must be better. Happens to every team- check the Bruins schedule out- I am sure they have had some unexplainable games. Vermont was off last weekend- do you think they had to put out as much energy last weekend as UNH did? Doesn't take much effort to pop open a Natty light.
The sky isn't falling down and the end of the world is not this week. Hopefully they can get their legs underneath them and get things going back in the right direction again. It is unfortunate, but the empty weekend they have coming up is in 2 weeks, and they face Merrimack and the playoffs after that. Hindsight says it would have been great to have had that last week or the week before. Don't question their intensity or enthusiasm. They care more than you do about results. There is not a person there that doesn't care.

Thanks for this perspective I for one appreciate it. The 'Cats have had quite a season there is no doubt about that. And it's absolutely true that their play was absolutely uncharacteristic, esp. Friday night. Everyone here I think just wants to see them succeed...keep some positive momentum going which in hockey I have discovered as a newbie fan, can be a tall order. (Especially with the extra ice time many players have been logging with the injury situation). Here's hoping and I'd be shocked if they didn't care...that would be unthinkable. One of the best cheers at the 'Whitt is "Hey Casey DeSmith...we are right behind you". (darn that pink hat )

 

[Snively65]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2013-14 Season Thread (Part 2)

I agree, the geese, as I am one of the few here who has not said that our players quit this past weekend, admittedly only seeing the Friday night game in person. But, having been at Lake Whitt for the two previous Friday night games also, I think that Vermont was a much stronger opponent than either Maine or Notre Dame, regardless of their records coming in. No question a short bench is going to wear down any team.

 

[Ryan422]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2013-14 Season Thread (Part 2)

UNH will never become the most desirable destination for most of the top players who grow up inside Interstate 495 in eastern Massachusetts. Those type of players will prefer to play at BC and/or BU - or Harvard if the kid excels at academics.

It's a reasonable expectation for UNH to recruit one top player from Massachusetts every year.

I agree and if UNH is getting at least one 'top player' from Mass each year I can live with that. Hopefully Kelleher develops into a real good player here. Eiserman seems like a good recruit and if all goes well Nazarian would be a nice fit too. That is definitely good news for the future and hopefully a step in the right direction since I took a look at the 2003 team....

Because on the 2003 team there were 8 players from Mass. All were pretty decent too. I know two are goalies but still & they were good too:
Saviano, Collins, Prudden, Foley, Truelson, Yandle, Pietrasiak, Ayers

All but one(Pietrasiak, Shrewsbury) were from inside the 495 boundary (The last UNH skater from inside 495 was Butler in '09-10. May not have been a highly touted recruit but certainly worked out well. So '02-03 had 7 players from Eastern Ma. and there has only been one(Wyer) the last 4 seasons.). I'm not trying to discredit you or disrespect you. You do great work for this team and I appreciate it, and I completely agree with you on recruiting in Ma., trying to recruit inside that boundary of 495 must be hell. Trying to convince a kid from Ma. to come up and play puck in 'cow-hampshire' could take some work. And I would assume it has only gotten harder with the success of BC the last decade and BU winning in '09. They obviously have the pick of the litter, nothing real new though. But what else has changed? Because I'm just saying UNH has had 8 Mass players(7 Eastern Ma.) on their team before (A year they went to NC) so maybe they could do it again...? That's the only year I looked at b/c I just wanted to take a successful year(Last time UNH went to the FF) and see how many players were on that team from Mass. That's certainly not the one and only reason why they went to the NC that year. Obviously. That's not the one factor that will result in success, I get that. They could certainly do it with zero players from Mass. or have a bad year with every player being from Mass. But interesting none the less. Hopefully recruits from Mass. will keep coming though because they usually work out pretty well (Sounds like 2, both from inside 495, will be on the way in the next 2-3 years. Sign of good things to come? Who knows. Ha.). I'm sure you'll let us know C-H-C.

 

[Chuck Murray]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2013-14 Season Thread (Part 2)

The sky isn't falling down and the end of the world is not this week. Hopefully they can get their legs underneath them and get things going back in the right direction again. It is unfortunate, but the empty weekend they have coming up is in 2 weeks, and they face Merrimack and the playoffs after that. Hindsight says it would have been great to have had that last week or the week before. Don't question their intensity or enthusiasm. They care more than you do about results. There is not a person there that doesn't care.

Your point is taken, and I would at least agree that the players care more than any of us about the results. But let's be totally frank here. Let's assume UVM is a talented and somewhat underrated team. We can point to any number of factors to explain that, but it's probably safest to look at them in broad and general terms and conclude that they are a good but not great team. Kind of like most of the league, actually. And they were the road team this past weekend. Did they not have regular practices the last two weeks, even if they didn't play the previous weekend? They had a close to 4 hour bus ride within 24 hours of the faceoff, and may have spent at least one (if not two) nights this past weekend in quarters that were not their own. And according to at least one poster, they may have had a late arrival at the arena for Friday night's game due to heavier-than-usual traffic coming back over the General Sullivan bridge.

Those are an awful lot of intangibles working against them, and on top of that the host team was coming off a home sweep of the #14 team in the country (at the time) the previous weekend. One team had every reason to come roaring out of the blocks on Friday night, and the other had every available excuse in the book not to. As it turned out, the former team came out stale and uninspired, even by the measure of their usually-protective coach ... and the latter team sucked it up, and put on a dynamic and committed performance, from the start of the first period Friday through to the end of the third period Saturday. And were rightly awarded for their efforts.

Using the word "quit" can create some bad feelings when taken literally, although there are certainly times when it literally fits, and we need look no further than the most recent Super Bowl to see a team (and certainly its key player) who had every reason to compete to the figurative death, and certainly cared more than any of their fans about the outcome of the game, and from Manning's perspective the impact of the outcome on his so-called "legacy". Yet they came up very short, and I think most observers would say Denver "quit" at some point WAY too early in the second half. Even if they were only outscored 14-8 over the period of the game they "quit" on.

I think the best explanation of "quit" offered on this thread after this weekend came from Greg, who correctly pointed out that every time UVM increased their intensity when challenged by UNH, the home team was umable (or unwilling?) to match that uptick. It was pretty obvious to me, albeit watching on TV Friday, and I weighed in and said so on here before the folks who were at the game added their similar thoughts - which Coach Umile echoed in the media immediately afterwards.

I've edited out a few more paragraphs after this, because no one wants to read about competitive theory and psychology on a Monday morning after a bad weekend of on-ice results. I'm sure the players have lots of enthusiasm, and they showed that recently with a 3-1-0 record after TvR went down for what appears to be the rest of the season. I'm also sure they have intensity - ask Notre Dame after the previous weekend. We were all very complimentary of that performance on here, without reservation. But intensity isn't a straight line proposition and constant. Intensity has to be measured in comparison to the intensity of your opponent on any given night, and on Friday UNH came up a distant second in that category. After UVM's fourth goal restored their 2 goal lead in the 3rd period, I turned to my daughter and said "I'm afraid they're going to let down and let in another one quickly". It was barely out of my mouth when Goal #5 hit the twine from a ridiculous angle. Really, I'm not that good - I'm not Kreskin, but we've all seen this movie before. Just as sure as Denver "mailed it in" after the 2nd half kickoff two weekends ago, UNH mailed it in Friday night after Goal #4, and got themselves in that predicament to begin with by failing to match UVM's effort and intensity over the 50-ish minutes that preceded it.

It pains me to say things like this, it really does. I'll be around for the rest of the season, and I'm always going to be hoping to see that magical moment. I've been in the house for all three of UNH's tourney championships (ECAC and HE) over a 35 year period, and saw them in three of their last four Frozen Fours (did not travel to Anaheim) so I'm in this for the duration, I'm afraid. I want the players to succeed on and off the ice, and to use what they've learned on and off the ice at UNH to be successful in their lives after hockey is done for them. I'm hoping Coach Umile gets to ride off into the sunset someday with the ultimate trophy, amd if not, then hopefully at least with another conference tourney trophy. I really, really do.

But the evidence out on the ice in recent seasons tells me the slide away from the pinnacle has sadly not stopped yet, and despite the early promise of last season, I'm afraid that has largely proven to be nothing but a temporary mirage that has been exposed by the last season-and-a-half of unceasing mediocrity. It is going to take an incredibly special effort from a lot of different people, on and off the ice, to turn things around for UNH Hockey - whether it's during the remainder of this season, or in future seasons. JMHO.

 

[e.cat]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2013-14 Season Thread (Part 2)

Let me pass along what I sawfrom the games this past weekend. If you go back and watch the video archive from the weekend broadcasts please notice that UNH had a hard time catching passes, winning board battles, winning faceoffs, winning foot races to the puck all weekend. Say what you may about your likes or dislikes about this team, those are not normal characteristics of this bunch. Compare that to the ND weekend when they won a high % of faceoffs and board battles etc. They controlled all of those situations that weekend. This Team physically hit their wall this weekend. Watch the archive. A tired player has problems handling passes, reaction times are slower, don't have the leg strength to win the board battles. I noticed situations when players were falling down just by trying to take hard turns to get back in the play. Tired players are slow to read and react to game situations as well. I thought that they were gased from their first shift Friday night. It happens. Vermont is not a team with abnormal size or exceptional footspeed. They don't really have any players that are likely to be placed on the All Hockey East team etc. Their defense is of average speed and size, and they have as many smallish forwards as UNH does. But they were fresh and rejuvenated. With the injury situations, ( not making excuses just using it as reference) the 3 oldest Def have been skating well in excess of 30 minutes a night for the past 3 weekends. The bottom 3 haven't picked up any additional on their share of reps in that time. Tough to keep up with long term. They key forwards are also getting exorbident time as well. They have had a tough post holiday stretch- Hoilday tournament- 2 against UNO- 2 against Union- 2 against Maine- 2 against ND- 2 against Vermont. Must be easy to play only 2 games a week? They practice hard 4 days a week- with old school coaches- ban the water bottle style- if 5 side boards is good for you then 10 must be better. Happens to every team- check the Bruins schedule out- I am sure they have had some unexplainable games. Vermont was off last weekend- do you think they had to put out as much energy last weekend as UNH did? Doesn't take much effort to pop open a Natty light.
The sky isn't falling down and the end of the world is not this week. Hopefully they can get their legs underneath them and get things going back in the right direction again. It is unfortunate, but the empty weekend they have coming up is in 2 weeks, and they face Merrimack and the playoffs after that. Hindsight says it would have been great to have had that last week or the week before. Don't question their intensity or enthusiasm. They care more than you do about results. There is not a person there that doesn't care.

I think it is easy to fall victim to the negativity that seems to prevail around here all too often. Especially this time of year when Seasonal Affective Disorder (SAD) more commonly known as "cabin fever" sets in around these parts. The pervasiveness of the negativity grows and spreads like a cancer until, before you know it, it becomes the rule rather than the exception. "Glass half full" becomes "glass half empty" quickly around here. The negativity expressed here is more a function of our own misgivings rather than anything the team does on the ice. For me as a fan to circle the UVM games every year and then see my team get spanked by UVM with the resultant disappointment in the aftermath of the losses is on me. I can choose to turn the page or not. Having said all that, I think in retrospect that you are right. The team may have hit the wall. Not because they don't care. Lord knows they do. We have to recognize that they are still just kids playing hockey in a very competitive league while working hard to get a quality education at the same time. Like you said, even the pros fall victim to let downs during the course of a long season. Throw in on top of that witnessing a teammate or two go down to injury must take a toll as well. In the heat of the moment we all say and do things we might not normally do or think. Let's all just step back, take a breath and enjoy the ride. The season may not go according to OUR plan, but hey that's life. Deal with it!

 

[thegeese]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2013-14 Season Thread (Part 2)

I applaud your thoughts e.cat. We can't paint everything with such a broad brush. We must not confuse the frustrations with the past and future direction of the program with the effort and results of the current players. The are not interchanceable. It is macro vs. micro. I assure you that the current group would never "quit" during a game. What you see may not be pretty at times, but I guarantee from my knowledge of many of these players than quit is not an option. They are a committed group.
As to the suggestion that UVM was behind the 8 ball because they were the visiting team this past weekend. Time to rest and prepare provide an obvious opportuntiy when competing against a team of similar strengths. I will suggest reviewing the record of football Coach Andy Reid when he was with the Eagles. He had an amazing winning record in games played following a bye week. Don't hold me to the exact numbers, but I believe it was something like 13-1 when he had a chance to rest and prepare his team with a bye. That covers both home and away games. I am not suggesting that Kevin Sneddon coaches to the standards of Jerry York or something, but UNH hasn't changed their style in 24 years or so, and it would be easy to scheme and practice against them if you had additional time. Just saying..

 

[C-H-C]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2013-14 Season Thread (Part 2)

I agree and if UNH is getting at least one 'top player' from Mass each year I can live with that. Hopefully Kelleher develops into a real good player here. Eiserman seems like a good recruit and if all goes well Nazarian would be a nice fit too. That is definitely good news for the future and hopefully a step in the right direction since I took a look at the 2003 team....

Because on the 2003 team there were 8 players from Mass. All were pretty decent too. I know two are goalies but still & they were good too:
Saviano, Collins, Prudden, Foley, Truelson, Yandle, Pietrasiak, Ayers

All but one(Pietrasiak, Shrewsbury) were from inside the 495 boundary (The last UNH skater from inside 495 was Butler in '09-10. May not have been a highly touted recruit but certainly worked out well. So '02-03 had 7 players from Eastern Ma. and there has only been one(Wyer) the last 4 seasons.). I'm not trying to discredit you or disrespect you. You do great work for this team and I appreciate it, and I completely agree with you on recruiting in Ma., trying to recruit inside that boundary of 495 must be hell. Trying to convince a kid from Ma. to come up and play puck in 'cow-hampshire' could take some work. And I would assume it has only gotten harder with the success of BC the last decade and BU winning in '09. They obviously have the pick of the litter, nothing real new though. But what else has changed? Because I'm just saying UNH has had 8 Mass players(7 Eastern Ma.) on their team before (A year they went to NC) so maybe they could do it again...? That's the only year I looked at b/c I just wanted to take a successful year(Last time UNH went to the FF) and see how many players were on that team from Mass. That's certainly not the one and only reason why they went to the NC that year. Obviously. That's not the one factor that will result in success, I get that. They could certainly do it with zero players from Mass. or have a bad year with every player being from Mass. But interesting none the less. Hopefully recruits from Mass. will keep coming though because they usually work out pretty well (Sounds like 2, both from inside 495, will be on the way in the next 2-3 years. Sign of good things to come? Who knows. Ha.). I'm sure you'll let us know C-H-C.

I like your idea of comparing the 2002-03 and 2013-14 rosters in terms of the players' hometown.
Here's a look at the number of players hailing from Massachusetts for the Hockey East schools plus Harvard. The first number is for the school's 2002-03 season, the second number shows the total for 2013-14, and the third number shows the overall gain or loss:

BU: 7-12. Overall +5
BC: 7-9. Overall +2
PC: 5-6. Overall +1
Harvard: 7-8. Overall +1
UMass: 18-8. Overall -10
UNH: 10-2. Overall -8
Merrimack: 12-5. Overall -7
Northeastern: 11-4. Overall -7
Lowell: 7-4. Overall -3
Maine: 3-2. Overall -1
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Net Loss = 27

It would appear that part of the answer to the question - "Why doesn't UNH recruit more top players from Massachusetts?" - is that nowadays, there are not as many NCAA Division 1 caliber players coming out of Massachusetts as there were 11 years ago.

 

[The Zlax45]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2013-14 Season Thread (Part 2)

I like your idea of comparing the 2002-03 and 2013-14 rosters in terms of the players' hometown.
Here's a look at the number of players hailing from Massachusetts for the Hockey East schools plus Harvard. The first number is for the school's 2002-03 season, the second number shows the total for 2013-14, and the third number shows the overall gain or loss:

BU: 7-12. Overall +5
BC: 7-9. Overall +2
PC: 5-6. Overall +1
Harvard: 7-8. Overall +1
UMass: 18-8. Overall -10
UNH: 10-2. Overall -8
Merrimack: 12-5. Overall -7
Northeastern: 11-4. Overall -7
Lowell: 7-4. Overall -3
Maine: 3-2. Overall -1
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Net Loss = 27

It would appear that part of the answer to the question - "Why doesn't UNH recruit more top players from Massachusetts?" - is that nowadays, there are not as many NCAA Division 1 caliber players coming out of Massachusetts as there were 11 years ago.

I think PC has become a very heavy Canadian roster as many of those kids from mass don't play.

 

[Greg Ambrose]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2013-14 Season Thread (Part 2)

Just can't buy the excuses. Sorry. Their performance this weekend was abysmal. They are not good enough to overlook any opponent. They need to play the best game they can every weekend if they are going to succeed. Going into this past weekend they had all the advantages in the world. Playing at home for the second straight weekend after sweeping a ranked team the week before. Playing against a team that historically they have dominated. And knowing if they continue to play well against teams below them in the standings that they could finish 2nd or 3rd in HE, get a bye in the one game elimination weekend and perhaps get home ice in the quarterfinals. If I know this, the coaches know it, and the players know it too. For them, the approach should have been "we're in the playoffs now, we have to play with playoff intensity in every game." Since they did play with playoff intensity the weekend before, I foolishly expected that they recognized the position they were in and would at least try to repeat their performance. Bottom line is they didn't.

I get tired of the line that they are "just kids." They are scholarship athletes and have been put under a microscope by coaches, college scouts and pro scouts for years. Most of them, if not all, desire and expect to play professionally and should understand the consequences of not being focused at all times. And I will remind one and all that their opponents are "just kids" as well. Somehow they overcame the distractions, the length of the season, and all the other rationales that excuse indifferent perfromance.

 

[C-H-C]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2013-14 Season Thread (Part 2)

Given that UNH had 10 players from Massachusetts on the 2002-03 roster and only 2 in 2013-14, what has changed in UNH's pattern of recruiting?

Part of the answer is that UNH recruits more players from the New York City/New Jersey/Philadelphia area (i.e., the cities/towns with fans who root for the Rangers, Islanders, Devils, and/or Flyers).

This table shows the number of players on the 2002-03 (1st number) and 2013-14 (2nd number) rosters who grew up in the NYC/NJ/Philly area:

UNH: 2-9. Overall +7
BU: 5-1. Overall -4
BC: 7-5. Overall -2
Harvard: 3-4. Overall +1

Some of the UNH players from the NYC/NJ/Philly area have turned out to be top players on their squads (e.g., the van Riemsdyk brothers, Brett Pesce, Kevin Goumas, Eric Knodel, Matt Willows, Josh Ciocco, etc.).

 

[Nick Papagiorgio]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2013-14 Season Thread (Part 2)

I get tired of the line that they are "just kids." They are scholarship athletes and have been put under a microscope by coaches, college scouts and pro scouts for years. Most of them, if not all, desire and expect to play professionally and should understand the consequences of not being focused at all times. And I will remind one and all that their opponents are "just kids" as well. Somehow they overcame the distractions, the length of the season, and all the other rationales that excuse indifferent perfromance.

Greg, you're a freakin clown.

That's all.

 

[Ryan422]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2013-14 Season Thread (Part 2)

Given that UNH had 10 players from Massachusetts on the 2002-03 roster and only 2 in 2013-14, what has changed in UNH's pattern of recruiting?

Part of the answer is that UNH recruits more players from the New York City/New Jersey/Philadelphia area (i.e., the cities/towns with fans who root for the Rangers, Islanders, Devils, and/or Flyers).

This table shows the number of players on the 2002-03 (1st number) and 2013-14 (2nd number) rosters who grew up in the NYC/NJ/Philly area:

UNH: 2-9. Overall +7
BU: 5-1. Overall -4
BC: 7-5. Overall -2
Harvard: 3-4. Overall +1

Some of the UNH players from the NYC/NJ/Philly area have turned out to be top players on their squads (e.g., the van Riemsdyk brothers, Brett Pesce, Kevin Goumas, Eric Knodel, Matt Willows, Josh Ciocco, etc.).

Point taken. Good research and yeah obviously there has been a change in where the players UNH (& other teams in general I guess) are recruiting. It is kind of interesting though that the two teams you listed (UNH & Harvard) who have increased their number of players from NYC/NJ/Philly haven't seen much success in recent years (Looks like UNH will be missing the tournament for the 2nd time in 3 years). Certainly not because of those players, as you said, the kids coming out of that region have become really good players for UNH. But someone brought up the question the other day, where would Willows fit in on teams of years past? Good question. And I'm not saying they should stop recruiting there, it's more of just a coincidence than anything I would say. Also, I would say with UConn coming to HE and Penn St. having a team now it will become much more of a battleground there recruiting for top players.


But definitely something is going on with recruiting... As you showed NU is a net -7 players from Mass compared to '02-'03 and they finished the regular season of HE in last place that year and are currently in third place and having a great year. UNH is a net -8 players compared to '02-'03 and are having a .500 season and likely they will finish in 7th maybe 6th, I think is the consensus, compared to 1st place back then. So you did kind of minimize the theory of Mass players providing success(But I did say in my previous post that it's not the one factor that will lead to success), but what theory I was trying to make in general is the type of players UNH is getting today compared to years past. Go where the talent is and I haven't really seen that lately...

And I think it was NCAA Watcher who said UNH has not had a player on their team in at least the last couple seasons who has been anywhere near the top of the USHL scoring. Obviously scorers can come out of the BCHL and other quality leagues but typically USHL is the premier talent producer(and I don't know about stats for UNHers who have played in the BCHL & where they ranked in league scoring. Maybe you do?) And I also had a fairly long rant about the fact that UNH does not have a drafted forward on their roster for the first time in over 30 years by my research. Just all of it kind of ties in with the talent level of recruits they have been able to get in recent years and the success they have see on the ice. I don't care where the players come from. They don't need to come from Massachusetts. Back then there was a ton of talent coming from Mass and UNH got some real good players from there and now it seems there aren't a lot a top players coming from Mass compared to a decade ago. So now those great players are coming from somewhere else, where ever that is, and UNH isn't really getting those 'top guys' anymore like they used to. Borek could go out and recruit in Guam for all I care. As long as he brings in some quality players who can put the puck in the back of the net. I know UNH is excited about recruits coming in (Looks like 2 NHL drafted forwards and another one who is in the top 10 or so in USHL scoring) and hopefully they develop to be quality D1 players like they're touted to be and get UNH back to being dominant again.

 

[Goldie]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2013-14 Season Thread (Part 2)

How many top goalies did UNH have back in the day? UML , PC, NU, BC. This year their goalies are playing pretty strong. Ss did some of those teams last year. Doug Carr made a big difference when he showed up at UML, but when Hellebuvk showed up and got his shot it was a whole new level. When Merrimack had their recent success- pretty strong goalie. In no way knocking UNH goaltending. Often Goaltending can become the difference.