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UNH Wildcats 2012-2013 Postseason Thread
- Thread starter ClOuD 9
- Start date
Re: UNH Wildcats 2012-2013 Postseason Thread
NCAA teams may only have 3 paid coaching staff members.
Heck - if the University can find $100K for a crappy new logo/marketing program, why can't they add an extra coach to the staff IF it addresses a need AND begins to set things up for an eventual succession plan after Coach Umile decides to hang it up?
Only 4-and-a-half months left until the start of the season ...
NCAA teams may only have 3 paid coaching staff members.
Chuck Murray
WIS & Effingwoods Hockey Almanac
Re: UNH Wildcats 2012-2013 Postseason Thread
So give one of them a volunteer tag (didn't Churchard do this in the past?) and line them up with another paying job in the area??
So give one of them a volunteer tag (didn't Churchard do this in the past?) and line them up with another paying job in the area??
Re: UNH Wildcats 2012-2013 Postseason Thread
Why would someone who already has a job coaching NCAA hockey exclusively want to go to a situation where they have to work with the hockey program AND at another full time job in the area to make ends meet (especially when other said job may not pay as much as they could make with their hockey salary elsewhere?) They also wouldn't be able to do any off campus recruiting.
Churchard worked at the school already and volunteered primarily as a sports psychologist. Not even close to being a similar situation as to what you are suggesting.
Why would someone who already has a job coaching NCAA hockey exclusively want to go to a situation where they have to work with the hockey program AND at another full time job in the area to make ends meet (especially when other said job may not pay as much as they could make with their hockey salary elsewhere?) They also wouldn't be able to do any off campus recruiting.
Churchard worked at the school already and volunteered primarily as a sports psychologist. Not even close to being a similar situation as to what you are suggesting.
Chuck Murray
WIS & Effingwoods Hockey Almanac
Re: UNH Wildcats 2012-2013 Postseason Thread
By all accounts, a nice guy and ambitious young UNH alum that many posters have fresh memories of his playing days, who also wants to be involved in the program. You can bet your bottom dollar that if Patrick Foley or Mark Mowers came on these boards and posted as themselves, they would also attract a huge amount of positive goodwill too.
By all accounts, a nice guy and ambitious young UNH alum that many posters have fresh memories of his playing days, who also wants to be involved in the program. You can bet your bottom dollar that if Patrick Foley or Mark Mowers came on these boards and posted as themselves, they would also attract a huge amount of positive goodwill too.
Chuck Murray
WIS & Effingwoods Hockey Almanac
Re: UNH Wildcats 2012-2013 Postseason Thread
If that person's current coaching job was at a D-1 backwater like Brown, and it meant he could move up to coach at his alma mater, why would/should he rule that out?
The *other* job could be a flexible job at the school (please don't say they don't exist) or in private industry in the area. It can be done if someone wants it to happen.
If that person's current coaching job was at a D-1 backwater like Brown, and it meant he could move up to coach at his alma mater, why would/should he rule that out?
The *other* job could be a flexible job at the school (please don't say they don't exist) or in private industry in the area. It can be done if someone wants it to happen.
Re: UNH Wildcats 2012-2013 Postseason Thread
So you're suggesting they break the NCAA rules? Sorry Chuck, you're off base...and I don't care where someone is coaching...if they are in D1 and making a full time salary (and probably a really good one at that at an Ivy) they aren't going to leave to work multiple jobs just so they can be on the staff at UNH. Your opinion of the relative value of working at UNH compared to other schools seems to be kind of inflated.
So you're suggesting they break the NCAA rules? Sorry Chuck, you're off base...and I don't care where someone is coaching...if they are in D1 and making a full time salary (and probably a really good one at that at an Ivy) they aren't going to leave to work multiple jobs just so they can be on the staff at UNH. Your opinion of the relative value of working at UNH compared to other schools seems to be kind of inflated.
Greg Ambrose
Registered User
Re: UNH Wildcats 2012-2013 Postseason Thread
Now that Maine has selected a coach, someone who wasn't on anybody's list at the beginning of the process, is their process of selection instructional for UNH? Like Maine, UNH is a program outside the Boston media market, their glory days increasingly in the rear view mirror for a variety of reasons and, most importantly, with a financial base that is not the equal of some of their Hockey East competitors (BC, BU, ND and, yes, UConn), never mind the Big Ten. When Umile announces his retirement I am sure UNH will start off with the same thought process as Maine, get a high profile coach with a solid D1 head coaching resume. But when confronted with the realities that they are not like BC, Michigan, etc. will they shift gears on the fly and take someone not considered at the start of the process? Money and admission policies are going to play a big part of this. Hope Marty is planning ahead.
Now that Maine has selected a coach, someone who wasn't on anybody's list at the beginning of the process, is their process of selection instructional for UNH? Like Maine, UNH is a program outside the Boston media market, their glory days increasingly in the rear view mirror for a variety of reasons and, most importantly, with a financial base that is not the equal of some of their Hockey East competitors (BC, BU, ND and, yes, UConn), never mind the Big Ten. When Umile announces his retirement I am sure UNH will start off with the same thought process as Maine, get a high profile coach with a solid D1 head coaching resume. But when confronted with the realities that they are not like BC, Michigan, etc. will they shift gears on the fly and take someone not considered at the start of the process? Money and admission policies are going to play a big part of this. Hope Marty is planning ahead.
Re: UNH Wildcats 2012-2013 Postseason Thread
Ciocco has the potential to be a top-notch recruiter for some college program. Since he joined the staff of U.S. Hockey Report in the Fall of 2011, he has been a prime contributor to their evaluations of young talent from the bantam level up to the USHL. He's logged a ton of miles going to rinks all over the US and Canada to appraise players at Showcase events, USA Hockey camps, and the like. His evaluations in USHR often predict which youngsters will become Division I vs. III players and who will develop into top-line talent in Division I.
Ciocco has the potential to be a top-notch recruiter for some college program. Since he joined the staff of U.S. Hockey Report in the Fall of 2011, he has been a prime contributor to their evaluations of young talent from the bantam level up to the USHL. He's logged a ton of miles going to rinks all over the US and Canada to appraise players at Showcase events, USA Hockey camps, and the like. His evaluations in USHR often predict which youngsters will become Division I vs. III players and who will develop into top-line talent in Division I.
Chuck Murray
WIS & Effingwoods Hockey Almanac
Re: UNH Wildcats 2012-2013 Postseason Thread
You may be right, and maybe I am off base. You seem to be well-informed on the NCAA rules in this area. Let me ask you this then ... perhaps thinking a little outside the box, but let's say UNH loses one of its current assistants in the next year or two. The other guy stays (Borek OR Tortorella). UNH/Marty Scarano decides he wants to set things up for the future (and having said that, I share Greg's concerns that Marty might not be planning too far ahead). He decides he wants to spring for the Souza/White combo, but Coach Umile wants to stay on board for a transitional year or two. Can Umile become a volunteer head coach, perhaps earning his money as an Assistant AD, and allow the 3 paid coaches to be (1) Borek/Tortorella, (2) Souza and (3) White? That way, Umile gets another year or two to pass the baton, hands it off to one of his trusted assistants (SB or JT) AND there are two ambitious young assistants with D-1 experience returning to their alma mater to handle the recruiting at both ends of the ice, with the potential for a secondary succession plan to emerge later on down the line?
I realize there are a LOT of moving parts in there, and a LOT of assumptions too.
Or they could just go outside and bring in someone who does things entirely differently? Mike Babcock might be available in 10 years or so, and played in the WHL before finishing his playing career at McGill, so I think he would fit the bill when the time comes ... 
You may be right, and maybe I am off base. You seem to be well-informed on the NCAA rules in this area. Let me ask you this then ... perhaps thinking a little outside the box, but let's say UNH loses one of its current assistants in the next year or two. The other guy stays (Borek OR Tortorella). UNH/Marty Scarano decides he wants to set things up for the future (and having said that, I share Greg's concerns that Marty might not be planning too far ahead). He decides he wants to spring for the Souza/White combo, but Coach Umile wants to stay on board for a transitional year or two. Can Umile become a volunteer head coach, perhaps earning his money as an Assistant AD, and allow the 3 paid coaches to be (1) Borek/Tortorella, (2) Souza and (3) White? That way, Umile gets another year or two to pass the baton, hands it off to one of his trusted assistants (SB or JT) AND there are two ambitious young assistants with D-1 experience returning to their alma mater to handle the recruiting at both ends of the ice, with the potential for a secondary succession plan to emerge later on down the line?
I realize there are a LOT of moving parts in there, and a LOT of assumptions too.
Or they could just go outside and bring in someone who does things entirely differently? Mike Babcock might be available in 10 years or so, and played in the WHL before finishing his playing career at McGill, so I think he would fit the bill when the time comes ...
Darius
Go 'cats!
Re: UNH Wildcats 2012-2013 Postseason Thread
Regarding the logo, the U's recent communication shows that at a minimum they have heard the reaction. Having had a few weeks to think about it, the thing that bothers me the most is that they chose an out of state firm, not keeping the money in NH.
Different budget.
Regarding the logo, the U's recent communication shows that at a minimum they have heard the reaction. Having had a few weeks to think about it, the thing that bothers me the most is that they chose an out of state firm, not keeping the money in NH.
Re: UNH Wildcats 2012-2013 Postseason Thread
Thanks guys, my question was somewhat sarcastic and rhetorical. I'm aware of Ciocco's attributes, but it seems he's becoming UNH's version of Jim Montgomery. Every time a potential addition/replacement to the coaching staff is mentioned his is always the first name mentioned, probably for the reasons Chuck outlined. Which is fine. However there are many other candidates, who have actual experience, (rather than simply potential,) not to mention a better resume as a player at UNH (which presupposes that the coach has to be an alum,) who would be at least as strong, probably stronger, candidates.
I would certainly consider Josh a candidate, just not the candidate.
By all accounts, a nice guy and ambitious young UNH alum that many posters have fresh memories of his playing days, who also wants to be involved in the program. You can bet your bottom dollar that if Patrick Foley or Mark Mowers came on these boards and posted as themselves, they would also attract a huge amount of positive goodwill too.
Thanks guys, my question was somewhat sarcastic and rhetorical. I'm aware of Ciocco's attributes, but it seems he's becoming UNH's version of Jim Montgomery. Every time a potential addition/replacement to the coaching staff is mentioned his is always the first name mentioned, probably for the reasons Chuck outlined. Which is fine. However there are many other candidates, who have actual experience, (rather than simply potential,) not to mention a better resume as a player at UNH (which presupposes that the coach has to be an alum,) who would be at least as strong, probably stronger, candidates.
I would certainly consider Josh a candidate, just not the candidate.
Greg Ambrose
Registered User
Re: UNH Wildcats 2012-2013 Postseason Thread
Not quite. Jim Montgomery was a 300 point career scorer for Maine and has been a successful coach in the USHL. Plus he's 10-15 years older than Ciocco. However, I do think that he would be a real go getter when it comes to recruiting, although evaluating talent and landing it are two different skills.
Not quite. Jim Montgomery was a 300 point career scorer for Maine and has been a successful coach in the USHL. Plus he's 10-15 years older than Ciocco. However, I do think that he would be a real go getter when it comes to recruiting, although evaluating talent and landing it are two different skills.
I doubt that Marty is giving much thought to men's hockey coaching succession. Short of a NC, UNH has had a better past 15 years than all but a handful of Div 1 teams, and Umile is relatively young compared o some Div 1 coaches. I think that it would take a few consecutive 2011-2012 seasons to drive Umile to retirement.
Re: UNH Wildcats 2012-2013 Postseason Thread
In the words of another Boston sportscaster...
"You're making my point."
In the words of another Boston sportscaster...
"You're making my point."
Greg Ambrose
Registered User
Re: UNH Wildcats 2012-2013 Postseason Thread
I'm not saying that a change in coaches is on the horizon. As long as Umile is healthy and continues to have success, I agree that he will stick around. What I am saying is that, when the time comes, Marty should look at the Maine situation as instructional. Despite UNH's success compared to 90% of D1 programs, they are not elite when it comes to the resources available, especially compared to BC, et al and the BTHC. Of course, you always say in public that you will shoot for the moon, but the actual search should be more realistic.
I'm not saying that a change in coaches is on the horizon. As long as Umile is healthy and continues to have success, I agree that he will stick around. What I am saying is that, when the time comes, Marty should look at the Maine situation as instructional. Despite UNH's success compared to 90% of D1 programs, they are not elite when it comes to the resources available, especially compared to BC, et al and the BTHC. Of course, you always say in public that you will shoot for the moon, but the actual search should be more realistic.
Chuck Murray
WIS & Effingwoods Hockey Almanac
Re: UNH Wildcats 2012-2013 Postseason Thread
Jerry York, Red Berenson ... anyone else??????
Coach Umile turns 65 years old before the end of THIS year.
Succession planning NEEDS to at least be on Marty Scarano's radar. One thing all three of these guys likely do have going for them is that right now, they all can probably call their own shot on retirement. But three years ago, a fourth (Coach Parker) was just turning 65 years old, and was a year on from a D-1 title. Who among us thought at the time he didn't have his future in his 100% control as to when he would step down?
Things can change quickly. Performance, health, off-ice issues, etc. And with all due respect to Coach Umile, he is a little bit lighter in the trophy case than the other folks mentioned in this post. No one is pushing him out the door, but let's not kid ourselves that there are a host of same-age guys still in positions atop their D-1 programs in this sport. There aren't - and his two elders that do remain will be having statues erected at their alma maters if/when they finally do decide to hang it up.
Jerry York, Red Berenson ... anyone else??????
Coach Umile turns 65 years old before the end of THIS year.
Succession planning NEEDS to at least be on Marty Scarano's radar. One thing all three of these guys likely do have going for them is that right now, they all can probably call their own shot on retirement. But three years ago, a fourth (Coach Parker) was just turning 65 years old, and was a year on from a D-1 title. Who among us thought at the time he didn't have his future in his 100% control as to when he would step down?
Things can change quickly. Performance, health, off-ice issues, etc. And with all due respect to Coach Umile, he is a little bit lighter in the trophy case than the other folks mentioned in this post. No one is pushing him out the door, but let's not kid ourselves that there are a host of same-age guys still in positions atop their D-1 programs in this sport. There aren't - and his two elders that do remain will be having statues erected at their alma maters if/when they finally do decide to hang it up.
CrazedUNHfan
New member
Re: UNH Wildcats 2012-2013 Postseason Thread
Everyone is talking about who could potentially replace Umile when he leaves. But if we get a coach out of our two assistants I have a feeling one or both may leave the program. Both Borek and Tortorella have a lot of D1 coaching experience and may decide to move on if they dont think that they have any chance of being a head coach at UNH.
So if we hire a new head coach I think we need to realize we might need to hire a head coach that has available assistants to bring with him. That is a lot of changover for the program. We need to worry about that sort of replacement for Umile when we are looking outside the program.
Everyone is talking about who could potentially replace Umile when he leaves. But if we get a coach out of our two assistants I have a feeling one or both may leave the program. Both Borek and Tortorella have a lot of D1 coaching experience and may decide to move on if they dont think that they have any chance of being a head coach at UNH.
So if we hire a new head coach I think we need to realize we might need to hire a head coach that has available assistants to bring with him. That is a lot of changover for the program. We need to worry about that sort of replacement for Umile when we are looking outside the program.
Jerry York, Red Berenson ... anyone else??????
Coach Umile turns 65 years old before the end of THIS year.
Succession planning NEEDS to at least be on Marty Scarano's radar. One thing all three of these guys likely do have going for them is that right now, they all can probably call their own shot on retirement. But three years ago, a fourth (Coach Parker) was just turning 65 years old, and was a year on from a D-1 title. Who among us thought at the time he didn't have his future in his 100% control as to when he would step down?
Things can change quickly. Performance, health, off-ice issues, etc. And with all due respect to Coach Umile, he is a little bit lighter in the trophy case than the other folks mentioned in this post. No one is pushing him out the door, but let's not kid ourselves that there are a host of same-age guys still in positions atop their D-1 programs in this sport. There aren't - and his two elders that do remain will be having statues erected at their alma maters if/when they finally do decide to hang it up.
What?! You do not think that Umile will get a statue at the entrance to the Whitt? You and Greg are right, of course; I just do not think that hockey coaching succession is on Marty's radar at this time.
Chuck Murray
WIS & Effingwoods Hockey Almanac
Re: UNH Wildcats 2012-2013 Postseason Thread
Well, it should be, at least to some degree.
As far as Coach Umile's legacy, perhaps they should rename the HE Regular Season championship trophy after him. Seriously. Is there anything more fitting? He's won that more than even you-know-who over at The Heights, and may be tied with Coach Parker during their shared time in the league.
Well, it should be, at least to some degree.
As far as Coach Umile's legacy, perhaps they should rename the HE Regular Season championship trophy after him. Seriously. Is there anything more fitting? He's won that more than even you-know-who over at The Heights, and may be tied with Coach Parker during their shared time in the league.