UNH Offseason Contract Edition.

[Dan]

So tired of the facility argument (excuse). Adult reflections on what they think kid should/would want are SO different from what kids actually want or pay attention to. They're 16-18 years old and in awe of any college facility they see. They'll adopt whatever perception of the facility the existing coaching staff shares with them, and they're not jaded by the bells and whistles and dollar signs that color adults opinions. What hurts UNH is being so entirely transparent of, and broadcasting, the staff's own opinion of why the school is not enough...

Watcher's posts illustrate perfectly why those top recruits came to UNH. They were sold a vision of what UNH was capable of, what they were capable of in Durham, what they could accomplish together through confidence, will & commitment, and what they would be developed to accomplish when their time at UNH was complete. They bought the vision, not the facility, period...

If you can't sell a vision without the facilities, you won't be able to with them. The current staff struggles to sell. Call a spade a spade.

If one can sell your vision without the facilities (Barr), then god help Hockey East when he gets them.

Not sure why those who get their facility (or ice size) talking points, directly from those struggling to do the job don't consider the source. Keeps the threads lively though...

 

[Chuck Murray]

So tired of the facility argument (excuse). Adult reflections on what they think kid should/would want are SO different from what kids actually want or pay attention too. They're 16-18 years old and in awe of any college facility they see. They'll adopt whatever perception of the facility the existing coaching staff shares with them, and they're not jaded by the bells and whistles and dollar signs that color adults opinions.

Watcher's posts illustrate perfectly why those top recruits came to UNH. They were sold a vision of what UNH was capable of, what they were capable of in Durham, what they could accomplish together through confidence, will & commitment, and what they would be developed to accomplish when their time at UNH was complete. They bought the vision, not the facility, period...

If you can't sell a vision without the facilities, you won't be able to with them. The current staff struggles to sell. Call a spade a spade.

If one can sell your vision without the facilities (Barr), then god help Hockey East when he gets them.

Not sure why those who get their facility (or ice size) talking points, directly from those struggling to do the job don't consider the source. Keeps the threads lively though...

Bravo, Dan. 10 out of 10. Successful student athletes are winners, and winners want to win, and to play for coaches who want (and know how) to win. Nicer facilities may be a happy bonus, but nothing more.

A few pages back, JB shared a colorful quote that also hit the nail on its head. Crude to the woke patrol I'm sure, but so true. We can only hope MS7 and his guys are waking up to this reality, and have learned from their past mistakes ...

 

[freak]

For about a 10 year period UNH had one of the best facilities in the East. Not coincidentally recruiting went well and the program went was very successful. Umile was not hands on with the recruiting and certainly was not Herb Brooks 2.0 with the X and Os. UNH facilitates wise seems to be in the bottom half of college hockey. Recruiting has dipped. There’s a connection IMHO.

I believe there are also constraints coming from the university. Ever since Charlebois was academically ineligible, and a few of the women a couple years prior, it seems that the program gets no leeway for recruiting. I'm not talking just the Keith Yandle situations. There was the notorious Gaudreau situation as well. The university seems to envision turning itself into a top 50 school, even if they have to recruit high achieving students from other countries (see: apt complex out by the IOL), and deny less than average athletes.

 

[BlueLine Bob]

And the MS7 burner account comes back again. You have to be obsessed with the coach, that is what drives the program.

Burner account lol. Not everyone shares the same hockey opinions as the 8 regulars on this board.

 

[freak]

The Whitt has arguably never been better as a facility than it is right now.

As long as you avoid the glass block tower. :-D

 

[NCAA watcher]

So tired of the facility argument (excuse). Adult reflections on what they think kid should/would want are SO different from what kids actually want or pay attention to. They're 16-18 years old and in awe of any college facility they see.

Disagree to some degree. The primary point is what conference you are in. Big 10>HE/NCHC>ECAC/CCHA/AHA
Second is if you're a coach on the rise. You are dependent on your teammates to increase your scoring and exposure, so pick a coach that other players will also pick
Third is current rankings
Fourth are facilities.

For students who have choices, and obviously 10X for athletes, the facilities matter. Go on college tours and they take you right to their athletics center, then the dorms, then the lunch facilities, and then classrooms. Shiny things entice most students, particularly if your goal is directly related to those facilities.

 

[Potluck]

So tired of the facility argument (excuse). Adult reflections on what they think kid should/would want are SO different from what kids actually want or pay attention to. They're 16-18 years old and in awe of any college facility they see. They'll adopt whatever perception of the facility the existing coaching staff shares with them, and they're not jaded by the bells and whistles and dollar signs that color adults opinions. What hurts UNH is being so entirely transparent of, and broadcasting, the staff's own opinion of why the school is not enough...

Watcher's posts illustrate perfectly why those top recruits came to UNH. They were sold a vision of what UNH was capable of, what they were capable of in Durham, what they could accomplish together through confidence, will & commitment, and what they would be developed to accomplish when their time at UNH was complete. They bought the vision, not the facility, period...

If you can't sell a vision without the facilities, you won't be able to with them. The current staff struggles to sell. Call a spade a spade.

If one can sell your vision without the facilities (Barr), then god help Hockey East when he gets them.

Not sure why those who get their facility (or ice size) talking points, directly from those struggling to do the job don't consider the source. Keeps the threads lively though...

I find it amazing you don’t think facilities are a key consideration for recruits. In any event, we’re not going to change any minds.

I’ll leave you with a real estate hypothetical. Two houses look alike from the outside and are in town. They are precisely the same except one has an updated kitchen and bathroom and the other doesn’t. Assuming price is not a consideration, which is more desirable. Kitchens really shouldn’t be that big of a deal, right? After all cooking is all about the chef. Bathrooms shouldn’t matter. After all we’re talking about a toilet and shower. Yet kitchens and bathrooms and location. are the keys to selling houses.

 

[JB]

A non hockey example of having more than enough and failing anyway compared to some up starts with (and could sell their) passion...

​​​​​​Samuel Pierpont Langley

 

[JB]

I find it amazing you don’t think facilities are a key consideration for recruits. In any event, we’re not going to change any minds.

I’ll leave you with a real estate hypothetical. Two houses look alike from the outside and are in town. They are precisely the same except one has an updated kitchen and bathroom and the other doesn’t. Assuming price is not a consideration, which is more desirable. Kitchens really shouldn’t be that big of a deal, right? After all cooking is all about the chef. Bathrooms shouldn’t matter. After all we’re talking about a toilet and shower. Yet kitchens and bathrooms and location. are the keys to selling houses.

Forget your real estate hypothetical. It doesn't work the universities are all different. Education, location, campus, coaches, etc. etc.

Let's look at Maine vs UNH hockey.

Some would say UNH better location, slightly better education. Maine has shorter and more prominent hockey history. Otherwise pretty equal on the rest.

Both clearly feel the need for upgrading facilities. But one is on the rise without the facilities, while the other bemoans the facilities as "the problem" whenever there is a chance.

Please explain?

 

[umhockey91]

Forget your real estate hypothetical. It doesn't work the universities are all different. Education, location, campus, coaches, etc. etc.

Let's look at Maine vs UNH hockey.

Some would say UNH better location, slightly better education. Maine has shorter and more prominent hockey history. Otherwise pretty equal on the rest.

Both clearly feel the need for upgrading facilities. But one is on the rise without the facilities, while the other bemoans the facilities as "the problem" whenever there is a chance.

Please explain?

Maine is on the rise without the facilities? They just broke ground on a $46 million renovation.

 

[JB]

Maine is on the rise without the facilities? They just broke ground on a $46 million renovation.

Those upgrades are from a grant announced in January. So, yes the hockey teams rise is before the facilities.

 

[Darius]

forget your real estate hypothetical. It doesn't work the universities are all different. Education, location, campus, coaches, etc. Etc.

Let's look at maine vs unh hockey.

Some would say unh better location, slightly better education. Maine has shorter and more prominent hockey history. Otherwise pretty equal on the rest.

Both clearly feel the need for upgrading facilities. But one is on the rise without the facilities, while the other bemoans the facilities as "the problem" whenever there is a chance.

Please explain?

lol

 

[Dan]

I find it amazing you don’t think facilities are a key consideration for recruits. In any event, we’re not going to change any minds.

I’ll leave you with a real estate hypothetical. Two houses look alike from the outside and are in town. They are precisely the same except one has an updated kitchen and bathroom and the other doesn’t. Assuming price is not a consideration, which is more desirable. Kitchens really shouldn’t be that big of a deal, right? After all cooking is all about the chef. Bathrooms shouldn’t matter. After all we’re talking about a toilet and shower. Yet kitchens and bathrooms and location. are the keys to selling houses.

Assuming price is not a consideration makes your entire argument irrelevant. Cost of attendance will ALWAYS be the #1 factor in student-athletes choosing a university.

Second of all, my opinion is based on actual DI recruiting experience and the study of DI student-athlete decision making habits. I'm sure its fun for you to hypothesize, and you want to support your friend, but I've lived the small school, "sub-standard facility" recruiting life and succeeded. Why? Because I believe(d) in myself and what we had to offer student-athletes, and recruited relentlessly. When you believe in something you can sell a vision for success, when you don't (UNH) and you make that abundantly clear to the buyer, you cannot...

The last kid we landed to our mid-major had a walk-on offer to Stanford and scholarships to Washington & Iowa.

I won't assume everyone can do the job, but if I can do it, where I've done it, then there are SEVERAL coaches who can do it at UNH. Souza simply hasn't with ANY level of consistency. And hearing him lament his own situation at every opportunity to anyone who will listen isn't helping him.

Please point me to the quotes from Benn Barr where he whines about how advisors won't send kids to UM because of the ice size or the facility? I'm sure he pushed for facility upgrades privately, he never degraded his own program in recruiting circles. What a wild idea.

That was fun! Ok your turn to tell me what you do and I'll make up an unrelated hypothetical to teach you about your career!

--

Leaman won at Union with nothing. He is why he succeeds at Providence. Barr won at Maine with nothing, that is why he will succeed at Maine with improved facilities. Each one of your previous examples enjoys the same story and ability. Success anywhere.

On the flip side, why should we expect success from a coach who has never had success?

When Sean Collins entered the recruiting process UNH was said to have ZERO chance of landing him. The Whitt was the jewel of the East as you claim, and it didn't matter at all in the eyes of anyone following the recruiting process. BU & BC were playing in aging facilities and were the outright favorites among predictors due to all the other factors where UNH 'came up short'. Anyone who thought UNH had a chance was laughed at. Souza would have believed the noise and lost him (probably would have pulled out); the UNH recruiters at the time believed in their program (took a real risk) and landed him. Understand your advantages, believe in them and do the job. If you can't sell one advantage, why should I believe you can sell any other...

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The final point, and the most important, is that while UNH's facilities may not be the elite industry standard they are more than good enough for UNH to accomplish all it wishes to accomplish. They may not be top-end, but they're still above average to good relative to MOST college hockey programs. Saying otherwise provides cover, nothing more.

 

[Potluck]

Dan: Decaffeinated.

As for your points, you’re making the common mistake of using your singular life experience and assuming it applies to all scenarios. Leaman left Union. Providence facilities are much better than Union. Salary better, too. You see a connection?

I am post 50 years of age. A couple years back I took my child on college tours. A truly astonishing experience. I’m an 80s unh kid. Colleges have changed big time re: facilities. They’re basically marketing resort living with upscale amenities such as absurdly lavish dining with 20 selections each meal and cooking stations. Why?

The “wellness” centers are all about exercise and having fun. That crap didn’t exist at UNH or any other college I heard of in the 80s. It’s a necessity today for colleges to compete. Why?

Yet the academic offering aren’t significantly different.

It’s only going to get more luxurious as colleges compete for students in an America with declining enrollments and more sophisticated consumers.

I find it remarkable that you think Souza can overcome a facilities disadvantage consistently by have Rod Langway make a recruiting telephone call for his alma matter and having Souza start acting like a cross between Tony Robbins and Dale Carnegie.

Btw, Barr hasn’t won anything as a head coach. He inherited the Nadeaus like he and Carvel inherited Cale Makar. He’s also making over $400k per. The notion that financial support is not a key contributor to athletic success in Division 1 college hockey is naive.

Look at the top 5 programs from the past 10 years and compare the facilities and funding to UNH. I dare say it’s a joke of a comparison.

 

[NCAA watcher]

You can both be right.
Facilities matter. And coaches matter.
Which leads me to my question to Potluck, you've named the Whitt as middle to lower in facilities.
Where do you rank Mike Souza's reputation within the hockey community (advisors/junior coaches) at the time hired and at present?

 

[Potluck]

You can both be right.
Facilities matter. And coaches matter.
Which leads me to my question to Potluck, you've named the Whitt as middle to lower in facilities.
Where do you rank Mike Souza's reputation within the hockey community (advisors/junior coaches) at the time hired and at present?

Finally I get to Souza. He seems to be average. Three things stand out to me as red flags.

The first goes back to his initial press conference when he was hired. I recall him discussing recruiting and saying “there are a lot of good hockey players”. I saw that answer as troubling. The teams with the best players in general win. His recruiting has lived up to his answer at that press conference. But the recruiting his improved a bit recently. Maybe he’s learning and improving. I respect that if it’s true.

The second thing is that UNH kids frequently fail to substantially improve over time. Massive red flag. Once again, the more talented players, like the most talented students, grow more, so perhaps there’s a correlation to recruiting.

The third is his teams generally don’t improve much as the season progresses. That’s an out right indictment and absolutely is related to coaching. UNHs biggest victories are often in October, which is when the most successful head coaches such as Pecknold, Pandolfo and in the past Parker and York were tinkering with new players and new lines. The best programs are generally vulnerable in October and much less so in February. I thought the BC weekend in February, even though UNH lost twice, was a real good sign at the time. BC is an absolute wagon. UNH played real well. But then UNH got handled easily at Maine.

I can see that Souza may not be the guy. But I am concerned that so many here are letting the institution off the hook. Souza has not been a complainer - far from it. He apparently is the one that recruited Key Auto to spearhead the renovations. That’s precisely what a real leader does. He’s absolutely worthy of a three year extension for that.

 

[Dan]

Dan: Decaffeinated.

As for your points, you’re making the common mistake of using your singular life experience and assuming it applies to all scenarios. Leaman left Union. Providence facilities are much better than Union. Salary better, too. You see a connection?

I am post 50 years of age. A couple years back I took my child on college tours. A truly astonishing experience. I’m an 80s unh kid. Colleges have changed big time re: facilities. They’re basically marketing resort living with upscale amenities such as absurdly lavish dining with 20 selections each meal and cooking stations. Why?

The “wellness” centers are all about exercise and having fun. That crap didn’t exist at UNH or any other college I heard of in the 80s. It’s a necessity today for colleges to compete. Why?

Yet the academic offering aren’t significantly different.

It’s only going to get more luxurious as colleges compete for students in an America with declining enrollments and more sophisticated consumers.

I find it remarkable that you think Souza can overcome a facilities disadvantage consistently by have Rod Langway make a recruiting telephone call for his alma matter and having Souza start acting like a cross between Tony Robbins and Dale Carnegie.

Btw, Barr hasn’t won anything as a head coach. He inherited the Nadeaus like he and Carvel inherited Cale Makar. He’s also making over $400k per. The notion that financial support is not a key contributor to athletic success in Division 1 college hockey is naive.

Look at the top 5 programs from the past 10 years and compare the facilities and funding to UNH. I dare say it’s a joke of a comparison.

Well, then with apologies - your argument hinges only one what you want the outcome of the conversation to be and your own singular assumptions.

The higher salary and better facilities at PC certainly indicate why Leaman would make that move. It doesn't explain how Union won a NC with their next coach, and PC won a NC with Leaman after never significantly threatening to do so in recent history. Leaman WAS the difference in recruiting and on-ice success.

If you don't see what Barr and Carvel have accomplished and how they've impacted their programs by not giving a damn of the perception they walked into, that seems like selective analysis.

I DONT think Souza can over come the disadvantage. I DO think the right coach could over come the SLIGHT disadvantage, because I've seen coaches overcome disadvantage at UNH (throughout the program's entire existence) and have national success. Souza is the outlier. What will be the next excuse when he doesn't do any better with the upgrades...?

No student picks a university because of the REC Center. All the schools have REC Centers and they can get a good workout at any of them. Much more important is the reputation of the academics who will be instructing them, the cost, how the university will set them up for their desired career, etc. To say facilities don't matter is inaccurate. Facilities need to be adequate and then they pale greatly in comparison to the reasons students choose universities or athletic programs. First is cost. Second is the relationship to, and trust in, the coach recruiting them. Relatively, UNH isn't especially expensive which leaves...

The facilities race is based on what adults think children want out of their experience. Actual research on the subjects indicate other variables as far more important.

I laugh at the comparison to college hockey's Top-5. When we sniff the Top-16 we can discuss the Top-5. How about we make finishing in the Top-30 a two-time in ten-year thing before we try to whine about what UNH doesn't has that the Top-5 have. Better more ambitious and confident coaches could have UNH more often than not in the NCAA Tournament with what they have.

 

[NCAA watcher]

They do have positions other than Head Coach for fundraisers who love their school and deal well with 40 to 60 year olds, but not so much with 16 year olds.

• 1993–99 Northeastern University Assistant Director of Physical Plant Services
• 1999–04 Northeastern University Director of Athletic Development
• 2004–11 Northeastern University Associate Dean and Director of Development of the College of Business Administration
• 2021–Present Northeastern University Athletic Director

 

[HockeyRef]

Maines Bradly Nadeau signs with the 'Canes....wonder if he will be in the Bruins game I'm going to Tues?

Great convo on here today..keeping it real and professional. I hope those who have shown up lately continue to post! We need all kinds of opinions (and for the most part that is what they are...)

 

[Potluck]

Dan: it’s important to note Union didn’t win NCAA title until three years after Leaman left the program. Rick Bennett was the coach at Union. But clearly Leaman turned the program around.

I think it’s worth noting that providence won its natty when the BU goaltender accidentally threw the puck into his own net. Umiles loss in 1999 in OT had something to do with simple misfortune.