Chuck Murray
WIS & Effingwoods Hockey Almanac
skippy, you know you've gone off the rails when you drag 'Ref into a non-hockey topic of discussion. And 2026 was going so well until you arrived today ...
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UNH- How Far West Do We Go?
- Thread starter norbert
- Start date
JB
Desk Chair Coach
YAWN - you are really quiet predictable, I should have put a post script calling out your reaction at the bottom of that one. I did everything but put your name on this,
You do realize that if I hadn't put in his fundraising success somebody would have called that out as an accomplishment.
As I have pointed out about 1000 times, and you have yet to reasonably refute, this stuff at most schools comes from fundraising most commonly after a team starts winning.
JB
Desk Chair Coach
Some give credit to MS7 for TDL's (Key Auto) $4M donation in Aug 2023, wow that was a while ago now. That MS7 got funding was an item in the the list of why a bad coach needed to be extended. Last number I saw the State was going to put in $6M (and that might have changed), not sure how much more was/is needed.
The upgrades seem to be a bit of a moving target with some of the announced changes completed (shrink the rink) as part of a $20M renovation. AI summary says the University is looking for $16M to fund the project ($4 TDL, $6M State and $6M more) wonderfully confusing. At this point it has been long enough AI gets confused about what they are doing when, and I don't really want to dig out the "current" (probably incorrect) information. Even the athletics site information is pretty blah, I don't think it has been updated since the TDL donation 2+ years ago.
I appreciate your post. The state of NH has the responsibility to properly fund UNH, which it clearly is not doing. Can you explain what you mean by "NH taxpayers like myself who fund everything on our back?" There's not state sales tax or state personal income tax.
Find me the college hockey coach that personally developed a $4 million dollar donor for infrastructure improvements. BTW, my guess is Souza has raised money for the program on many other occasions. I doubt his first venture into fundraising reeled in a $4 million donation.
And I've refuted you about 5 times (1000 seems high, no?) by pointing out massive infrastructure upgrades are the product of long term planning and certainly not tied to a few winning seasons. Look at Dartmouth, W. Michigan, Maine... oh I'm not doing this again. You simply make arguments designed to place responsibility for UNH's financial problems on anyone other than NH taxpayers. It's a silly and frankly a dumb argument.
JB
Desk Chair Coach
Look I didn't pick these 3 you did... one private school and two state schools... only the private school is picking up part of the tab. Even though your argument has been States need to fund facilities at State schools. How dare NH tax payers expect donations to fund facilities at the State school (again your examples).
- Dartmouth College is funding the multi-phase, high $20 million renovation of Thompson Arena through a combination of private donations and general college funds.
- Western Michigan University (WMU) hockey is moving to a new, privately funded $300-515 million downtown Kalamazoo Event Center
- UMaine's hockey rink upgrades at Alfond Arena are funded by a massive investment from the Harold Alfond Foundation
UNH's proposed Whittemore Center renovation would be a combination of private donations and state funds.
NOTE: I have also said repeatedly something to the effect the best long term investment that can be made in society is education. I am not altruistic, I want to retire someday and we need younger educated people growing the economy so my portfolio continues to do well. I am in favor of funding UNH. I am also in favor of wealthy donors funding Athletic Facility improvements. I want the State to fund the education of people to grow the economy.
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HockeyRef
Well-known member
I'm talking about our property taxes which fund pretty much everything especially the school system/university system. Personally? I'd gladly pay a sales tax if it meant that the burden on the tax payer could be lessened. I'm sure most here would disagree but at least...you get the option to buy or not. And it's not only UNH...the state is enacting many things like the voucher system for schools regardless of income.
Being a former teacher of 41 years I do not agree with this at all. If you don't like public education, go elsewhere, but don't expect me to pay for it. If you don't think public schools are doing enough for your child, go elsewhere. Now I have to fund kids who don't like our schools in our town and want to go elsewhere. I don't want to get into a convo about the fairness of all of this and I do not agree that throwing money at a problem fixes it either...That doesn't mean public schools could do better; they most certainly can. (Don't get me started about parents. I'm soooo glad I"m out of it. The horror stories I hear...eeeek!!
Anyway, I know I don't have the chutzpah to debate some here who would disagree with what I said so this is my only comment on this issue.
ps I think it's kind of pathetic that the state of NH thinks it's a boon to public education by giving money earned from lottery tickets...but that doesn't stop
me from buying 'em! ha!
JB
Desk Chair Coach
My wife's a teacher. The problem with education in order: parents, school boards and admin. This combination is driving the good teachers away. The crap kids pull today and get away with because nobody wants to deal with the parents. It is the "my child would never" when 4 adults in the room watched the behavior. Nope we are going to believe the 13 year old because they would never lie. I know I am in an age group where if a note came home from school about me I was guilty until proven innocent and you couldn't prove your innocents. My fathers favorite line on a close call, "this just makes up for all the stuff you have done and didn't get caught".
The family attitude to respect teachers and adults is unfortunately uncommon. It does still exist, with the really good students.
As for sales taxes, no thank you (and Potluck would go crazy, how dare NH expect out of staters to pay sales taxes to fund education in NH). Look the government needs to collect $X to fund everything. It doesn't matter how many different taxes you have it is still $X. I am in favor of just keeping it simple. If you rent you pay property taxes, built into your rent, if you own you pay property taxes etc. etc.
HockeyRef
Well-known member
Kudos to your wife for being an educator! I got out in 2021 largely due to the covid mess and other things. I just figured 41 years were enough (tho I did teach with VLACS for 3 years to stay with it...) Anyway...I know just implementing a sales tax isn't the 'answer'. It's a big issue and very complex to be sure. I wish her the best going forward!!
No, you don't. 100% wrong. You pay property taxes when you pay property taxes. Renters choose to rent. Rent is market driven. Taxes are not market driven. Owners are not permitted to chose to pay property taxes. BTW, property taxes are deductible. You folks leave that out.
Well, well, well, we finally at long last 100% agree. Ask any school teacher or coach what it's like to take on a parent. No support.
Wrong. Most people respect teachers. Don't focus on the bad apples. You're turning into the "get off my lawn" guy.
Love your posts Ref, but the "love it or leave it" argument is the all time loser argument. Embracing it ensures nothing ever improves. Questioning and protesting is the essence of freedom.
JB
Desk Chair Coach
You clearly don't have rental property. Sure the "market" sets prices
and I have a bridge to sell you if you think covering property taxes isn't part of the rental rate calculation, for the entire market.I will concede the federal property tax deduction owners get that renters don't.
JB
Desk Chair Coach
Sadly, in many school districts the bad (and I include apathetic) apples far outnumber the good. In almost all cases you find the good students have family structures that value education. Beyond the good students honestly teachers aren't well respected beyond lip service. "My kid is too busy with basketball practice, piano lessons and the drama club to do homework" is not valuing education. You can't get most kids to do even an hour of homework anymore.
This message board is going to likely have a positive skewed view on teachers (thanks by the way). First only about 40% of the US population has a college degree (with NH being one of the more educated States). People with college degrees think that number is low and without think that number is high. There is this weird thing that happens in our society. Statistically, if you go to college after college your peer group all went to college (spouse, friends, co-workers), same thing happens if you didn't go to college. People who go to college generally value education and so on here there is a "respect for teachers". Potluck you claim to have gone to college, so you and your peer group generally have respect of teachers. That however means the other 60% of the population (a majority) is statistically meh on the value of education, they don't see it, and unfortunately our society has less upward mobility then in decades past. Now take the douche educated folks (that look down their noses at teachers, who are salt of the earth people) and the meh on education folks and you end up with a majority that don't respect teachers. If society "respected" teachers, schools would be palaces, the pay wouldn't be crap, and I would not spend a bunch of money buying school supplies for a classroom full of kids that aren't mine. (thank god I am not a teacher)
HockeyRef
Well-known member
Totally agree on the protesting angle...I didnt get 'most argumentative' in high school for nothin!
HockeyRef
Well-known member
lol especially one where I'm not so adept at. Hockey included but I've come a long way....ha!
Bringing it back to hockey for a minute - with UNH off this weekend, looking at the HE schedule it looks like the most interesting series to follow will be Maine at Providence Friday/Saturday. With 2 wins over Maine, having them continue to win will boost UNHs NPI ranking, but I could never stomach rooting for Maine under any circumstances… perhaps ties both nights will be okay haha!
Will also keep an eye on NU at UVM both nights as well. Will NU head to Durham with a weekend sweep at Gutterson? Or follow the similar weekend split that has been a theme across most of div 1 this year.
Anyone have any predictions for how things shake out this weekend?
Will also keep an eye on NU at UVM both nights as well. Will NU head to Durham with a weekend sweep at Gutterson? Or follow the similar weekend split that has been a theme across most of div 1 this year.
Anyone have any predictions for how things shake out this weekend?
Chuck Murray
WIS & Effingwoods Hockey Almanac
How to claim you have all this deep insight into the NH way of life ... and in doing so, prove you have absolutely no clue, and are talking out of your posterior. Good work today, skippy ... oh, and I do hope I did manage to sneak this one in just ahead of your self-imposed curfew?!?
I don't have any insight into 'Ref's personal finances (or JB's or Norbie's, etc.), but this much I can say ... we've both (maybe all?) sent multiple children to UNH, and that's probably come at a cost in the low six figures for each of our families, not counting scholarships and financial aid, etc. Throw in an annual five figure property tax payment, and I don't lose any sleep when you go on your silly "UNH isn't being properly funded" rants on whether I'm paying my fair share. Please. The difference in the campus in just the last 20 years is breathtaking. I'll let Snives comment on UNH's growth dating back to his childhood, since he's a former townie. In summary, UNH has never been more fiscally healthy and well-supported.
That's the truth.
The way the current unh powerplay is running, they barely get a chance to set up anyway. An aggressive pk - full pressure on the points - is all you need to wipe out unh powerplays. Make it uncomfortable on unh rookie d. Dartmouth and Colgate both ran this system. And unh also does on occasion. Many do, actually...depends on which pp unit is on the ice
JB
Desk Chair Coach
I don't have Snives length of history but I went to high school in Durham. The change in the Campus is amazing. Sure there are some old buildings that may be less efficient and that is what happens after 132 years. After the McConnell, Horton and Babcock architectural disasters they have done a great job with making a beautiful campus as it has grown. They have also grown the campus in really interesting ways that are harder to see, so not loosing the charm, example getting under the railroad tracks back near Morse hall to expand out to Gregg hall and the Ocean Engineering Labs
As for "fiscally healthy" - that is a no. The problem is UNH is currently in an over capacity situation. The student population has been shrinking and there is now too much facilities and potentially too much staff. It is why they are actively looking to shutter some of the older buildings that are forecasted for renovation, they don't need to renovate the extra space at the moment. The budget situation isn't great because of the reduction in student population (this is not unique to UNH - it is a general 4 year school problem), it is likely to be a painful right sizing operation until the student population stabilizes and for some colleges/programs more painful than others.
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Oh Buford, your hillbilly math and logic is laughable. You sound like Governor Wallace in 1968 when you mention “our way of life”. UNH is suffering through declining enrollment, massive budget cuts and an admissions rate of 88%. That’s a failing institution being propped up by a legislature that requires it to stay open but not necessarily properly funded.
The reason you’re proud is you aspire to nothing and create nothing. That’s pure hillbilly. Nothing ever changes or improves when you’re around. Any changes and improvements are created by the imagination, hard work and investment of others. You contribute nothing. That’s the hillbilly deadbeat mentality. You personify it.
Darius
Go 'cats!
You left out highway and road safety. We'll probably return to mandatory vehicle safety inspections and associated revenue after failing brakes and/or tires result in a bad accident. Hopefully no one is seriously injured or killed but Live Free or Die. Pretty sure we are raising interstate toll rates soon though.