UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2016 and Beyond

[E.J. Smith]

Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2016 and Beyond

Pretty delusional analysis which, I think, Watcher has offered a very good rebuttal. However I'll throw in a bit about All-Americans - Brian McCloskey - Tim Murray ('97), Mark Mowers ('98), Jayme Filipowicz ('99), Jason Krog ('97, '99), Ty Conklin ('00, '01), Darren Haydar ('02), Colin Hemingway ('02, '03), Michael Ayers ('03), Lanny Gare ('03), Steve Saviano ('04), Sean Collins ('05), Brian Yandle ('05, "06). That's 12. Scott Borek - Brad Flaishans ('08), Mike Radja ('08), Matt Fornataro ('08), Kevin Regan ('08), Bobby Butler ('10), Paul Thompson ('11). That's 6. Personally, I don't think these numbers mean much because some who came in when McCloskey or Borek was an assistant were actually recruited by others. For instance, Haydar's first contact was with Chris Serino while Kevin Regan's was Dave Lassonde. But the overall point is the overall talent level in McCloskey's approximately 10 years is vastly superior than in Borek's time. A fact. As for Steve Moses, his problems have nothing to do with coaching. He just couldn't put the puck in the net.

And yet the echo in the trophy case is similar no matter which end of it we're looking at.

There's more wrong here than just talent.

 

[NCAA watcher]

Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2016 and Beyond

For instance, Haydar's first contact was with Chris Serino while Kevin Regan's was Dave Lassonde. But the overall point is the overall talent level in McCloskey's approximately 10 years is vastly superior than in Borek's time. A fact.

Leaving aside Dupont's typically inaccurate bluster about Mich State being only "half interested" in a kid who set Ontario scoring records.

A big strike
Dick Umile, finishing up his 12th season as the Wildcats' coach, figured Dave Lassonde had a good catch when he first brought up Haydar's name four years ago. He knew his assistant coach had an eye for talent, and Lassonde had that tantalizing chirp in his voice after a scouting trip to a town just outside Toronto.
"How'd you like to have a guy who can score goals?" Lassonde asked Umile, which, for any coach, is like tossing a Boston cream pie into the middle of a diet workshop.
"Love it!" said Umile.
"OK," said Lassonde, readying his punch line, "but only one problem . . . he's about 5-8 and 150 pounds."
In other words, nice touch, but potentially too small. If Umile wanted to read from the Coaching 101 handbook, then Lassonde was wasting his time. The only other US college half-interested in Haydar was Michigan State. Otherwise, the little kid with the soft hands was a novelty item in the eyes of Division 1 NCAA hockey.
But someone forgot to slip Umile the handbook.
"Yeah, so what," Umile told Lassonde. "It's college hockey - not everyone has to be big."

 

[E.J. Smith]

Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2016 and Beyond

Recruiting, talent, shopping for the groceries. Whatever you want to call it, that's clearly the most pressing problem in Durham right now. I would remind people that no matter who is actually out in the rink in Kelowna, or Oakville, or Marlboro it's ultimately on the head coach as to whether that guy is doing a good job or not. And, it's interesting how the recruiting fiasco has made us forget the other shortcomings that have been at play for years now - Champions of December, an absolutely woeful post season history of losing to lower ranked teams, an inability to ever adjust to teams or in game situations.

I guess one way to shed the Champions of December label is to just suhk righ out of the gate each year.

Shawn Walsh, or Norm Bazin/Nate Leaman now, was one of those coaches who could beat you with his team and then beat you with your team. Dick Umile is one of those guys who could lose to you with his team and if you just gave him a couple of weeks to "straighten them out" lose to you with your team.

 

[Dan]

Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2016 and Beyond

The teams from 2003-2009 were still elite Dan as there was little change in talent level and it would be safe to say there was as much talent on the 2008 team than the 2003 team. Stevie Moses senior year was the start of a downward trend and I am certain that Coach Umile would like to add all the best players in the country that he could (given the 18 scholarship limitations). I feel all UNH fans pain but it is not fair to say that Borek was the downfall as he brought in as many all-americans if not more than McCloskey.

I'm not arguing that the program fell off the cliff after the Minnesota game, but that was the beginning of a gradual slide from the top of the mountain to the base. Borek was empowered by Umile to basically coordinate and lead all recruiting efforts and the talent and dynamic ability slipped slightly each season, until it blew up in his face with Bourque, White and Reid. That was an opportunity for him to right the ship and he sunk it due to a lack of attention to detail. There are some who want to give Borek credit for verballing these recruits and others - but when they fail to show up on campus, you have failed as a recruiter.

So, I'd argue that the slide began with the coaching transition, and culminated between 2009-2011 when the good recruits no-showed and the ones who did were largely ineffective. If you want to argue that it started AND culminated in 2009-11 than were largely arguing semantics and point of view. But just for fun, lets take a look at McCloskey v. Borek and their tenures as recruiting coordinators...

McCloskey - 10 Years (Ignoring his 1 Year Hiatus at DC)
Overall Team Record - 235-115-33 (.657)
1st Season - 18-17-3 ('92-'93) / Last Season - 30-7-3 ('01-'02)
3 HE Regular Season Titles, 1 HE Tournament Titles, 7 NCAA Appearances, 3 Frozen Fours
Hobey Finalists - 6 / Hobey Winner - 1
All-Hockey East - 26
Seasons with 20 or Less Wins - 2/10

Borek - 13 Years
Overall Team Record - 281-184-58 (.593)
1st Season - 28-8-6 ('02-'03) / Last Season - 19-19-2 ('14-'15)
4 HE Regular Season Titles, 1 HE Tournament Titles, 10 NCAA Appearances, 1 Frozen Fours
Hobey Finalists - 4 / Hobey Winner - 0
All-Hockey East - 22
Seasons with 20 or Less Wins - 7/13

Those are the rough numbers of what occurred during their times behind the UNH bench and in front of UNH's recruiting efforts. Certainly they are skewed in McCloskey's favor. When you consider what McCloskey inherited and where he finished the case gets even stronger. When you consider that Borek's most successful seasons were in the beginning - when he accumulated 1 RS Title, 1 FF, 1 Hobey Finalist, 2 20+ win seasons, 3 NCAA Tournaments and much of the program's additional success on the backs of McCloskey recruits like Saviano, Collins, Ayers, Hemingway, Gare, etc., than the case becomes open and shut.

Evidence of Borek's Recruiting Drop-Off:
McCloskey 2001-02 - Collins, Caron, Callendar, Aikins, Teplitsky
Transition 2002-03 - Yandle, Petresiak, Hutchins, Leach, Wright, Kolanos, Anderson
Borek 2003-04 (Begins to ride wave of B2B FF's) - Bucchino, Ciocco, Doherty, Hemingway*, Hutchins, Mickflikier, Murray, Travis, Vinz, Winnik (pretty good start)
Borek 2004-05 - Flaishans, Fornataro, Pouliot, Radja, Reagan, Switzer (Good, but not 2003-04)
Borek 2005-06 - Charlebois, Collins, Fortney, Fritsch, Kaptstad, Manke, Pollastrone, Smith, Thompson (About the same as 2004-05)
Borek 2006-07 - Butler, Foster, Leblanc, Krates, Rossman (OK, not as good as previous two)
Borek 2007-08 - Beck, Campanale, Dries, Desimone, Manz, Sislo, Thompson, JVR, Vranek (A Renaissance! By junior year all that was left of the talent was the S-T-D line, but hard to criticize here.)
Borek 2008-09 - Borisenok, Kessel, Kipp, McCarey, Moses, Scott (Big step backwards from 07-08 and the beginning of the transition from slow slide to BIG slide.)
Borek 2009-2010 (The Crash - Bourque, White & Reid are lost) - Block, Burke, Hardowa, Henrion, Ivens-Anderson, Kostolansky, Pavelski, Speelman (Not good)
Borek 2010-11 - Agosta, Goumas, Knodel, Silengo, Sorkin, Wyer (No depth)
Borek 2011-12 - Camper, DeSmith, Downing, Willows, Randall, Thrush, TVR (Downing, TVR & Meh...)
Borek 2012-13 - Correale, Gaudreault, Hill, McDonald, Pesce, Quast, Reagan, Smith (Yeah...)
Borek 2013-14 - Bourque, Cleland, Maller, Kelleher (Thanks for TK!)
Borek 2014-15 - Boyd, Chanter, Clark, Eiserman, Foegel, Furgele, Marks, McNicholas, Poturalski, Salvaggio, Tirone (and thanks for Poturalski - so far)

I reference 2002-03 as a turning point, because I think its clear that Borek rode the momentum for his first few classes. A lot of UNH's success the next few seasons was a result of the guys who were already there. Without doing the research, yet, I wonder how many players in "Borek's" first strong class (2003-04) should be credited to the recruiters who came before him? Certainly Hemingway. I won't pin 2002-03 on him, as it could have been Borek, the transition or simply an absolute clunker from McCloskey.

When laying out the recruit lists the 2009-10 issues and eventual class was clearly a HUGE turning point. Probably, the primary turning point, but I'd still argue the evidence shows this was a case of a recruiting stream making its way down hill, before dropping straight over the edge of the cliff. And that cliff has/had nothing to do with any of the excuses that you've heard from coaches and administration and everything to do with things within their control. Period.

It is not anyone's fault at UNH hockey that we have not landed a complete all-star team as our Boston competitors have. I am sure many on the boards think they can do a better job than Borek or Souza. I am sure Coach Umile would be thrilled if you could bring the Under 18 all star team to UNH. They are doing the best they can given the realities today. I believe they have signed some very good players and BU and BC have had down cycles as well. If our first line stars return next year and our freshman and sophomores take the next step, we should have a very good year next year. Many of the better teams have star senior players and they do reload each year. We will have elite players in each class next year and I hope this is the start of better things.

I've made my living recruiting. I don't have the connections in the hockey world - but based on the excuses and hardships I hear coming out of the program and from insiders, I can promise you I'd bring a better attitude to the job. We can and have competed with the best programs in NCAA hockey for recruits. We can again, but the attitude, effort and belief have to change immediately! I'm with you on next year - it could be great. It could also be another team with some high-end talent and not enough depth - a pattern that has plagued the Borek years. And what becomes of the program when that high-end talent leaves. At this point, who knows...

 

[Dan]

Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2016 and Beyond

Leaving aside Dupont's typically inaccurate bluster about Mich State being only "half interested" in a kid who set Ontario scoring records.

"Yeah, so what," Umile told Lassonde. "It's college hockey - not everyone has to be big."

How open minded of Umile and staff - so many years ago and so many years younger...

 

[Dan]

Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2016 and Beyond

Dan, I'm not trying to overplay the reaction to the loss to Denver. Primarily it was just a disappointment as I felt it was the first wrong foot put forward during the Umile regime. As I mentioned, the program continued to rise after that. But, and to really stretch an equivalence here, similar to repealing Glass-Steagall, the negative effects were much delayed. In a way, it didn't wound UNH immediately, it changed their DNA generationally. I look to a couple down the road situations that I think stemmed from the sea change after the DU game.

JVR was our Eichel. But unlike BU, UNH didn't hitch their wagon to him like they could have. It seemed like Eichel was never off the ice, and it was all guns blazing offense. JVR, however, seemed like he was shackled a bit. Only got regular shifts - which I guess must have been DU's reach, to even let a freshman play at all - didn't always play with the other best offensive players on the team, etc. UNH had one of the 2 or 3 best offensive players in college hockey at the time. They should have gone back to fire wagon and seen how it played out, the odds were in their favor while they had him. But they didn't adjust at all and got FAR less out of JVR than they should have.

More generally, UNH has suffered from offensive malaise for years. They no longer seem to be able to turn it up even when they want/need to. That could be talent, and is in part, but it's also the fact that the creativity and fun seems to get drummed out of anyone who plays for UNH. No one seems to be having fun anymore. Obviously I only see this from a distance and maybe it's all birthday parties and giggles in the locker room, but most of the forwards seem like they don't dare put a foot out of place on the ice. Like, "we do this dance by the numbers, don't give me any of that creative stuff, it might lead to a shot on goal against us, stick to what I drew up on the board." UNH's forwards haven't looked like they're having any fun for a VERY long time.

Those are the types of things that I think had their genesis way back in that loss to Denver.

I would agree with you that at some point in the mid-to-late 90's UNH transitioned from a run-and-gun offense first, second and third type of team to a more well-rounded and defensively aware style, but I think that led to more success. Between 1995 and 2003, the defensemen improved, but UNH still had some very good and very creative forwards who did some great things offensively. A lot of those forwards were also much more defensively aware and responsible. They had a nice mix of elite offensive talents, two-way forwards and a couple of guys who excelled defensively. Even the 'second-tier' forwards could still put the puck in the net. Guys like Prudden, Abbott, Swain, Shipulski, etc all were sound players, but still scored more goals and points than Correale (a top-six forward for most of the last three seasons) despite playing third line roles most of their career.

At some point, you're right - the offensive pendulum shifted again and Umile decided defense and dependability were the most important qualities a forward could possess. The forward who epitomizes this change for me is Brett Hemingway. Umile definitely seemed to hate Brett's free-wheeling and unpredictable style. From that point on I've seen more and more lesser forwards playing ahead of offensive talents for the exact reasons you mentioned - Unless he has no choice, he'd rather play a forward he knows will play within his system than someone who will freelance and give up an occasional odd-man rush.

That ideology is proven in the presence by Kelleher's freshman season, McNicholas' limited role and the ice time awarded to upperclass forwards the last few seasons. So I suppose it doesn't really matter when we each think the transition began - we both recognize the same issue. Hopefully, a younger coach in Souza, who played with some high scoring teams and was no slouch himself, will envision a more up-tempo style of play...

 

[E.J. Smith]

Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2016 and Beyond

So, I'd argue that the slide began with the coaching transition, and culminated between 2009-2011 when the good recruits no-showed and the ones who did were largely ineffective. If you want to argue that it started AND culminated in 2009-11 than were largely arguing semantics and point of view. But just for fun, lets take a look at McCloskey v. Borek and their tenures as recruiting coordinators...

I need to start by saying I largely agree with you. There's really no arguing with the recruits who made it to campus during each timeframe.

The one place where it may not be apples to apples is head coach.

McCloskey's Umile seemed to still have energy and a passion to win. My sense is he did more with what McCloskey gave him. And probably was more involved in the recruiting process itself.

Borek's Umile seems to have started the slide into the been there done that mode in terms of team and on ice invovlement, and may have been more interested in getting over to Molly Malone's or the Pease GC than getting on a plane to Winnipeg.

And none of this addresses the fact that McCloskey recruited for one of the Big 4 when HE was VERY much a Big 4 and everyone else. He didn't have to look over his shoulder for UML, NU, or PC to be stealing his guys. Never mind the complete lack of presence of the Notre Dames, UConns, and Penn States back in McCloskey's time. I know that borders on whining and self-pity, on which I hear and agree with you, just saying.

 

[bomberhockey]

You'd have a hard time convincing me that the 9-2 loss to Denver - while embarrassing - had anything to do with the downturn in UNH hockey's fortunes. The program won 186 games over the next eight years (through the loss to MN) and made the NCAA tournament 15 of the next 18 seasons.

The turning point for me was Thomas Vanek's game-winning goal in the 2003 final and Borek taking over for McCloskey (and being given far too much of the HC's responsibilities) that same season. The level of recruiting slipped slowly but consistently each season and UNH slipped further and further away from its national championship aspirations. UNH's leaky recruiting stream BURST wide open when Borek and Umile were asleep at the switch as Bourque, White and Reid all failed to matriculate. That was the final blow that has sent the program spiraling to where it is now...

So, I'd agree with Greg - the talent slowly got worse, until it dramatically got worse. Repairing the recruiting pipelines is the only way back towards the top of the standings and the polls...

I couldn't disagree with you more. First Richie was still in the game at that point and although he never was huge on recruiting he'd take some BC trips then. And as far as the 3 recruits you mentioned how would you have handled them differently? I know for example Borek was all over Bourque spending many a day in Ann Arbor, even with Ray. Ray's very good friend happened to have a major junior team and wanted Ryan to play. After Chris's experience at BU might have made that decision easier.
They were All On their game then. Brian was good but I find it hard to believe he's as good as SB.

 

[Dan]

I couldn't disagree with you more. First Richie was still in the game at that point and although he never was huge on recruiting he'd take some BC trips then. And as far as the 3 recruits you mentioned how would you have handled them differently? I know for example Borek was all over Bourque spending many a day in Ann Arbor, even with Ray. Ray's very good friend happened to have a major junior team and wanted Ryan to play. After Chris's experience at BU might have made that decision easier.
They were All On their game then. Brian was good but I find it hard to believe he's as good as SB.

Umiles involvement in recruiting has been a huge issue - that's a great point that you've made and was also made above by EJ. I feel like I've been pretty hard on Umile for his lack/loss of interest in recruiting and I understand how my last post doesn't necessarily reflect my opinion that Umile and Borek share the blame.

That being said, when you are empowered total control of recruiting operations you're going to shoulder a lot of the blame when things trend as poorly as they have. You have stated before that controld is what Borek wanted. He got it and didn't do the job. Umile should get a lot of blame for both not helping and for giving so much control to someone who didn't do the job.

I've always blamed them 50/50 in my mind. Maybe Umile deserves more - but that doesn't absolve Borek...

As far as Bourque, White and Reid, the latter two are easy - I'd understand the academic requirements for the school I'm recruiting athletes too. I'd also be aware immediately of the academic backgrounds and transcripts of the two prospects. Finally, is monitor their progress and ensure they take the two years of a foreign language that is required. To not do so was careless.

As for Bourque, you'd have a much better chance to keep him if you kept White. If he had still left, than tough break you lost one kid to major juniors - it happens to everyone.

But, to lose all three - two by being careless - and then to make the same mistakes in the future is inexcusable. For both of them...

 

[Chuck Murray]

Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2016 and Beyond

The one place where it may not be apples to apples is head coach.

McCloskey's Umile seemed to still have energy and a passion to win. My sense is he did more with what McCloskey gave him. And probably was more involved in the recruiting process itself.

Borek's Umile seems to have started the slide into the been there done that mode in terms of team and on ice invovlement, and may have been more interested in getting over to Molly Malone's or the Pease GC than getting on a plane to Winnipeg.

And none of this addresses the fact that McCloskey recruited for one of the Big 4 when HE was VERY much a Big 4 and everyone else. He didn't have to look over his shoulder for UML, NU, or PC to be stealing his guys. Never mind the complete lack of presence of the Notre Dames, UConns, and Penn States back in McCloskey's time. I know that borders on whining and self-pity, on which I hear and agree with you, just saying.

You say getting over to Molly Malone's (RIP) or to Pease GC like that's a bad thing ...

Hey, even if the program is going down the toilet, the quality of the content on here is spiking upwards!!

 

[Darius]

Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2016 and Beyond

You say getting over to Molly Malone's (RIP) or to Pease GC like that's a bad thing ...

Hey, even if the program is going down the toilet, the quality of the content on here is spiking upwards!!

Says you.

 

[bomberhockey]

I do hope you're right, '1932, and better things are just over the horizon. But when I see you saying things like "they are doing the best they can, given the realities of today" ... with all due respect, I fall in with Dan's thinking as to me, that's just more lame excuse-making. What "realities" are holding the program back exactly? That kids like to go to school in the big city? Was that really any different a decade or two ago?? Heck - two decades ago, Portsmouth (and Durham) had less entertainment options AND the Downeaster access to Boston hadn't yet arrived. But the program had positive momentum, competed consistently at or near the top, and players came to play.

The reality of the situation that UNH Hockey finds themselves faced with nowadays has everything to do with squandering all of the good momentum they'd built up through the early part of this century. Drip-drip-drip, year by year, falling gradually away from the top, and watching formerly mediocre HE programs (see UMass Lowell, now Providence) zooming past them, not making excuses, but tapping into their own resources and finding their own different pathways to success. Whether either/both of those programs will enjoy the extended runs that UNH/Coach Umile or UMaine/Walsh-Standbrook enjoyed - remains to be seen.

I don't want to hear any more excuses. The Jumbotron excuse may have been the biggest bunch of hogwash I've ever heard trotted out about why recruits might not be attracted to UNH any more ... but that's here now, and I don't see any apparent uptick in recruiting, do you? Facilities this, admissions that, the Hub O' the Universe's irresistible tractor (sp?) beam, yada yada yada.

Enough already. Not meant as anything personal towards you, '1932 - I enjoy your thoughtful posts and your point of view makes for some refreshing and insightful reading. But the folks running the program have gotten WAY too comfortable and set in their ways in recent seasons, and the results on the ice reflect that, and cannot be ignored.

Let's start the Souza regime now ... figure out if Stewart is on board or not ... and let's get to work. JMHO.

Here here agreed give him the reigns Now or maybe after this weekend perhaps next weekend. It's not the lack of tron that hurts recruiting its the tired facilities. The kids spend an extraordinary period of time in that building. They should have more comfort in there. Locker room is eh, the lounge is non existent, the work out facilities are laughable, no room for team film work. Look around the league, some of these facilities are amazing. It makes a difference, like it or not. A nice dorm room or suite is important to students, arguably this is these kids suite, they most likely spend more time there than their college domicile.

 

[Dan]

Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2016 and Beyond

Here here agreed give him the reigns Now or maybe after this weekend perhaps next weekend. It's not the lack of tron that hurts recruiting its the tired facilities. The kids spend an extraordinary period of time in that building. They should have more comfort in there. Locker room is eh, the lounge is non existent, the work out facilities are laughable, no room for team film work. Look around the league, some of these facilities are amazing. It makes a difference, like it or not. A nice dorm room or suite is important to students, arguably this is these kids suite, they most likely spend more time there than their college domicile.

Our national studies show that a program’s facilities – the track, the weight room, stadium, and other areas where they will spend time as an athlete – actually factors very little into their final decision as to whether or not they accept your offer. Yet, facilities and the surroundings are usually one of the things that a coach will primarily focus on in their recruiting; moreover, I’ve seen coaches base their entire recruiting strategy around what they feel those facilities will sell to a potential student-athlete.

However, facilities are important when that same athlete joins your program and is now a part of the family. When that happens, your facilities take on added importance because the condition of those facilities can directly effect their experience at your school. Once they are on campus as a student-athlete, it matters to them because they are directly affected by the surroundings that they find themselves in.

The bottom line to the example I’m citing is that there is a change in perspective that is happening in the mind of this athlete. As a prospect, your facilities are not going to be what finally draws them to your program; conversely, all of the facilities might be what makes them stay with your program.

The disconnect I see with coaches is that they are approaching prospects in the same manner that they are seeing their current athletes’ view of their facilities: Some coaches think facilities are what draws the athlete to their program when they are a high school prospect.

For the most part, that’s incorrect.

Dan Tudor, who has made his career out of studying college recruiting and surveys thousands of recruits every year on their decision making process, disagrees with you Bomber. Facilities are just NOT the primary influence on recruiting that so many people think they are. As Tudor states, when facilities do matter is after students have committed and ARRIVED on campus. So, until players start transferring out of UNH because their college hockey experience is miserable than the facilities argument is truly just an excuse. All the hockey program has to do is look across the street to see that facilities are not only not a deal breaker, but not even that important...

I've been around coaches my entire life. The first thing they do when things aren't going their way is ***** about all the obstacles they face. The easiest way for a coach to rise to the top is to avoid this. All of the big school coaches are big school coaches because they recruited well and won at smaller schools with weaker facilities. Instead of making excuses they just do the job.

----

With all that being said, there is only one NCAA hockey facility that is that much better than UNH's that it might effect recruiting. UNH didn't have a problem recruiting against that school when McCloskey was here.

There are so many reasons more important than facilities in the eyes of recruits. Scholarship money is the clear number one, but the coaching staff, the school itself, how much they feel wanted, the campus, program prestige, academics, conference affiliation, location, academic reputation, majors offered, their ability to envision success in an environment and more all come far before facilities. Like it or not, that's what piles of research shows and its what I've seen first hand in the field.

I referenced North Dakota and money earlier - everyone assumes its the facility that attract all that talent to Grand Forks. I'd be willing to bet that's not the case. I'm sure they love the building, but I bet the more important reasons for their decisions were the program's history and ability to turn out NHLers, the coaches, the hockey-centric environment and even the campus and academics. Here's another BIG reason for UND's success that not many people know about. Its CHEAP.

In-State tuition at ND, per semester, is just under $4,000. If you live in Minnesota its $4,400. If you live in a Manitoba, Saskatchawan, Montana, South Dakota, Illinois, Indiana, Kansas, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, Nebraska, Wisconsin, Alaska, Arizona, California, Colorado, Hawaii, Idaho, Nevada, New Mexico, Oregon, South Dakota, Utah, Washington or Wyoming its just $5,600. Meanwhile, instate tuition at UNH is $17,000 (so $8,500/Semester) and out of state is $30,000 ($15,000/Semester) (which is, believe it or not, in line with or less than most). A New Hampshire resident could go to school at UND for just $1,000 more per semester than UNH. North Dakota is a GREAT place to be a walk-on...

* http://und.edu/admissions/student-account-services/tuition-rates.cfm
* http://admissions.unh.edu/tuitionfees/

Now THAT is a recruiting advantage...

 

[bomberhockey]

Recruiting, talent, shopping for the groceries. Whatever you want to call it, that's clearly the most pressing problem in Durham right now. I would remind people that no matter who is actually out in the rink in Kelowna, or Oakville, or Marlboro it's ultimately on the head coach as to whether that guy is doing a good job or not. And, it's interesting how the recruiting fiasco has made us forget the other shortcomings that have been at play for years now - Champions of December, an absolutely woeful post season history of losing to lower ranked teams, an inability to ever adjust to teams or in game situations.

I guess one way to shed the Champions of December label is to just suhk righ out of the gate each year.

Shawn Walsh, or Norm Bazin/Nate Leaman now, was one of those coaches who could beat you with his team and then beat you with your team. Dick Umile is one of those guys who could lose to you with his team and if you just gave him a couple of weeks to "straighten them out" lose to you with your team.

It maybe urban legend but I heard somewhere along the line Walsh addressed his team in '99 before overtime in the finals, " we have no more defensemen only forwards from here on. Whether it's true or not that's the way to winners win, not by trying not to lose.

 

[bomberhockey]

Pretty delusional analysis which, I think, Watcher has offered a very good rebuttal. However I'll throw in a bit about All-Americans - Brian McCloskey - Tim Murray ('97), Mark Mowers ('98), Jayme Filipowicz ('99), Jason Krog ('97, '99), Ty Conklin ('00, '01), Darren Haydar ('02), Colin Hemingway ('02, '03), Michael Ayers ('03), Lanny Gare ('03), Steve Saviano ('04), Sean Collins ('05), Brian Yandle ('05, "06). That's 12. Scott Borek - Brad Flaishans ('08), Mike Radja ('08), Matt Fornataro ('08), Kevin Regan ('08), Bobby Butler ('10), Paul Thompson ('11). That's 6. Personally, I don't think these numbers mean much because some who came in when McCloskey or Borek was an assistant were actually recruited by others. For instance, Haydar's first contact was with Chris Serino while Kevin Regan's was Dave Lassonde. But the overall point is the overall talent level in McCloskey's approximately 10 years is vastly superior than in Borek's time. A fact. As for Steve Moses, his problems have nothing to do with coaching. He just couldn't put the puck in the net.

you might think this has nothing to do with talent, and I maybe missing some, here's players that made the show on Boreks watch:
Mike sislo
Jamie Fritsch
James vanRiemsdyk
Paul Thompson
Matt campanale
Trevor smith
TvR
Bobby Butler
Brian Foster
Peter LeBlanc
Brett Pesce
And Brian had a HC working with him during his entire gig.

 

[Chuck Murray]

Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2016 and Beyond

you might think this has nothing to do with talent, and I maybe missing some, here's players that made the show on Boreks watch:
Mike sislo
Jamie Fritsch
James vanRiemsdyk
Paul Thompson
Matt campanale
Trevor smith
TvR
Bobby Butler
Brian Foster
Peter LeBlanc
Brett Pesce
And Brian had a HC working with him during his entire gig.

Only JvR, TvR, Winnik and (hopefully) Pesce have made consistent NHL careers of it.

It's funny how this thread has become a shrine to Walshy over the last page or two ...

 

[Chuck Murray]

Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2016 and Beyond

It maybe urban legend but I heard somewhere along the line Walsh addressed his team in '99 before overtime in the finals, " we have no more defensemen only forwards from here on. Whether it's true or not that's the way to winners win, not by trying not to lose.

Beautiful stuff. Hate him for it, but that's the right message.

Recruiting, talent, shopping for the groceries. Whatever you want to call it, that's clearly the most pressing problem in Durham right now. I would remind people that no matter who is actually out in the rink in Kelowna, or Oakville, or Marlboro it's ultimately on the head coach as to whether that guy is doing a good job or not. And, it's interesting how the recruiting fiasco has made us forget the other shortcomings that have been at play for years now - Champions of December, an absolutely woeful post season history of losing to lower ranked teams, an inability to ever adjust to teams or in game situations.

I guess one way to shed the Champions of December label is to just suhk righ out of the gate each year.

Shawn Walsh, or Norm Bazin/Nate Leaman now, was one of those coaches who could beat you with his team and then beat you with your team. Dick Umile is one of those guys who could lose to you with his team and if you just gave him a couple of weeks to "straighten them out" lose to you with your team.

Yup, that's about it. And Walshy won (big) with facilities on par with Snively.

 

[Greg Ambrose]

Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2016 and Beyond

Leaving aside Dupont's typically inaccurate bluster about Mich State being only "half interested" in a kid who set Ontario scoring records.

A big strike
Dick Umile, finishing up his 12th season as the Wildcats' coach, figured Dave Lassonde had a good catch when he first brought up Haydar's name four years ago. He knew his assistant coach had an eye for talent, and Lassonde had that tantalizing chirp in his voice after a scouting trip to a town just outside Toronto.
"How'd you like to have a guy who can score goals?" Lassonde asked Umile, which, for any coach, is like tossing a Boston cream pie into the middle of a diet workshop.
"Love it!" said Umile.
"OK," said Lassonde, readying his punch line, "but only one problem . . . he's about 5-8 and 150 pounds."
In other words, nice touch, but potentially too small. If Umile wanted to read from the Coaching 101 handbook, then Lassonde was wasting his time. The only other US college half-interested in Haydar was Michigan State. Otherwise, the little kid with the soft hands was a novelty item in the eyes of Division 1 NCAA hockey.
But someone forgot to slip Umile the handbook.
"Yeah, so what," Umile told Lassonde. "It's college hockey - not everyone has to be big."

Watcher, I referenced Serino because Frank Haydar, Darren's dad, told me that he was the first UNH coach he ever met, at the Milton Arena when Darren was playing for the Milton Merchants. I'll also tell you that the Haydars did not meet Umile until they came for their visit to Durham in January, 1998.

 

[Greg Ambrose]

Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2016 and Beyond

you might think this has nothing to do with talent, and I maybe missing some, here's players that made the show on Boreks watch:
Mike sislo
Jamie Fritsch
James vanRiemsdyk
Paul Thompson
Matt campanale
Trevor smith
TvR
Bobby Butler
Brian Foster
Peter LeBlanc
Brett Pesce
And Brian had a HC working with him during his entire gig.

Okay, I get it now. When you lose the argument, you change the topic. Let me tell you this. I am a college hockey fan in general and a UNH Hockey fan in particular. While I enjoy it when Doc Emrick mentions the college which players attended, particularly when it's a UNH player, it is not the be all end all to me. The important thing is how my team does. And it is indisputable that the UNH teams when McCloskey was an assistant faired better than those who skated when Borek was an assistant. And now you imply that Umile was part of a three legged stool during the McCloskey years but, all of sudden, when Borek came in, he was not. Not sure how you know that and how you would document it but facts are facts, McCloskey was better.

 

[NCAA watcher]

Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2016 and Beyond

It's funny how this thread has become a shrine to Walshy over the last page or two ...

Or as we know him, the original Donald Trump. Fake it until you make it.

"The final key to the way I promote is bravado," Trump writes in another passage. "I play to people's fantasies. People may not always think big themselves, but they can still get very excited by those who do. That's why a little hyperbole never hurts. People want to believe that something is the biggest and the greatest and the most spectacular."
"I call it truthful hyperbole," Trump concludes. "It's an innocent form of exaggeration — and a very effective form of promotion."

Trump's 1987 Memoir 'Art of the Deal'