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UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2016 and Beyond

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This is ABSOLUTELY apples and oranges. Why is York such an outlier as an older head coach still succeeding? Because its extremely rare and very hard to do. York is an amazing coach, in large part due to his flexibility and energy to relate to players and recruits. Umile was an amazing coach, who the game has passed by. As I said before NUMEROUS players have made statements to the effect of not having a relationship with Umile until their senior year or graduation. Bomber, and others, have made quite clear that Umile can't be bothered with wooing recruits. York has always thrown his young players right into the mix, if he thinks they represent his best option. Umile has consistently opposed playing younger talent, in order to play weaker upperclassmen that he 'trusts', unless his hand is forced.

Umile is stubborn and set in his ways, so his program is failing. York is flexible, open-minded and infectiously enthusiastic, so his program is thriving. It is that simple...

I just don't feel age is the biggest issue here and that is what I meant by apples to apples. So Mr. York ( and believe me I do respect him and his program very much) is infectiously enthusiastic? Please share with me how this is evidenced...I have heard he takes a very active role in recruiting and it's very obvious he loves what he does from what I've seen of him in interviews and behind his bench.

Listen I know DU's persona behind the bench is one thing but I'm having a hard time thinking he has absolutely no (or little) relationship with his players. I've seen otherwise. And I've heard otherwise at hockey banquets and his commentary on the 'Coaches Show' in Monday nights. But all of that stuff doesn't really matter I suppose.

We have talked about his loyalties about who he plays and yes that has been frustrating even for this fan who tries to find the positives in it all at the expense of the harsh realities. But I do not for one minute think those players have no relationship with their HC. And yes...I know how important it is.
 
Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2016 and Beyond

HockeyRef said:
I also thought UNH was heading in the 'right direction' with the hiring of these younger guys (Souza and Stewart) who could relate to the players. Will Souza do the same, when he becomes HC? (Hire an assistant close to his age or younger)

The $1,000,000 question. Souza has very little track record, though those who work with him speak of him highly. I have a hard time believing that in his work with Cavanaugh he hasn't understood the importance of recruiting. However, while he may be able to interract with recruits, that may not be his own strength as an assistant. (His recruiting track record at Brown and U.Conn hardly jump out. I can't say what his player style is, or what geographic areas/pipelines he has.) So, when DU does relent to leave, hopefully Souza being of a younger generation is not tied to the bad model. He hires a good recruiter to work with Stewart. BC's Michael Ayers might fit, given that they were teammates.
 
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Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2016 and Beyond

This is ABSOLUTELY apples and oranges. Why is York such an outlier as an older head coach still succeeding? Because its extremely rare and very hard to do. York is an amazing coach, in large part due to his flexibility and energy to relate to players and recruits. Umile was an amazing coach, who the game has passed by. As I said before NUMEROUS players have made statements to the effect of not having a relationship with Umile until their senior year or graduation. Bomber, and others, have made quite clear that Umile can't be bothered with wooing recruits. York has always thrown his young players right into the mix, if he thinks they represent his best option. Umile has consistently opposed playing younger talent, in order to play weaker upperclassmen that he 'trusts', unless his hand is forced.

Umile is stubborn and set in his ways, so his program is failing. York is flexible, open-minded and infectiously enthusiastic, so his program is thriving. It is that simple...

Not to mention ... can you imagine Coach Umile hiring someone like Sean Fields or Alfie Michaud as an assistant coach? Yet Jerry York goes and hires someone like Mike Ayers. The guy is absolutely fearless, and relentless in the way he pushes himself into different areas and different approaches. You have to admire that from someone who could easily be "mailing it in" at this age, and still be considered a legend at his alma mater ... yet he is hungry for more. That's a guy who is in it for more than a paycheck or a silly round number.

You think he would be shaming some of his peers into pushing harder and trying to keep up with him ...
 
Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2016 and Beyond

I just don't feel age is the biggest issue here and that is what I meant by apples to apples. So Mr. York ( and believe me I do respect him and his program very much) is infectiously enthusiastic? Please share with me how this is evidenced...

You really need evidence?

Yet Jerry York goes and hires someone like Mike Ayers.

He wanted Mike Ayers to know what it's like to win an NCAA championship! Is York the nicest guy or what? :D
 
Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2016 and Beyond

I just don't feel age is the biggest issue here and that is what I meant by apples to apples. So Mr. York ( and believe me I do respect him and his program very much) is infectiously enthusiastic? Please share with me how this is evidenced...I have heard he takes a very active role in recruiting and it's very obvious he loves what he does from what I've seen of him in interviews and behind his bench.

Listen I know DU's persona behind the bench is one thing but I'm having a hard time thinking he has absolutely no (or little) relationship with his players. I've seen otherwise. And I've heard otherwise at hockey banquets and his commentary on the 'Coaches Show' in Monday nights. But all of that stuff doesn't really matter I suppose.

We have talked about his loyalties about who he plays and yes that has been frustrating even for this fan who tries to find the positives in it all at the expense of the harsh realities. But I do not for one minute think those players have no relationship with their HC. And yes...I know how important it is.

Its not that they have NO relationship - you're taking it to the extreme and making it seem as if he ignores his players. BUT, it is almost exclusively a coach-player relationship and very shallow in all other areas. The good coaches, regardless of age will engage their players during recruiting and take the same interest in their freshman that they do their seniors. That's how trust is built with today's athlete and it is necessary. I would be you a lot of money that the biggest reason Umile avoids recruiting is because he doesn't want to deal with 'entitled' players and parents. Meanwhile, York embraces recruiting 100%. Umile doesn't relate as well or cultivate relationships as well as York, whether you want to admit it or not.

I suppose 'age' is not the factor, its what typically comes with age - inability to relate to young players, inability to adjust to new ideas, loss of energy to go the extra mile, apathy, etc. Umile has succumbed to these issues, while York - and Berenson - have reinvented themselves and thrived. You point to York's success as a reason why Umile's age doesn't matter. First, they are obviously two different people. Second, York is a legend because he is the exception that proves the rule. If one senior citizen can run marathons, does that mean age is NOT a factor in why 99% of senior citizens cannot...??

Umile, and most older coaches, cannot or wont make these adjustments and that is why he will finish his career in the way of Jack Parker (even worse) and not a Jerry York...
 
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Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2016 and Beyond

Its not that they have NO relationship - you're taking it to the extreme and making it seem as if he ignores his players. BUT, it is almost exclusively a coach-player relationship and very shallow in all other areas. The good coaches, regardless of age will engage their players during recruiting and take the same interest in their freshman that they do their seniors. That's how trust is built with today's athlete and it is necessary. I would be you a lot of money that the biggest reason Umile avoids recruiting is because he doesn't want to deal with 'entitled' players and parents. Meanwhile, York embraces recruiting 100%. Umile doesn't relate as well or cultivate relationships as well as York, whether you want to admit it or not.

I suppose 'age' is not the factor, its what typically comes with age - inability to relate to young players, inability to adjust to new ideas, loss of energy to go the extra mile, apathy, etc. Umile has succumbed to these issues, while York - and Berenson - have reinvented themselves and thrived. You point to York's success as a reason why Umile's age doesn't matter. First, they are obviously two different people. Second, York is a legend because he is the exception that proves the rule. If one senior citizen can run marathons, does that mean age is NOT a factor in why 99% of senior citizens cannot...??

Umile, and most older coaches, cannot or wont make these adjustments and that is why he will finish his career in the way of Jack Parker (even worse) and not a Jerry York...

Well I never said the two were similar in success did I? And please don't put words in my mouth; as far as 'whether I'd admit it or not' that's for you to decide. I come here transparent as possible....and last I looked, agreeing in full with everything said here wasn't a pre-requisite for joining this forum. Definitely a task to reinvent oneself and if those two coaches you've mentioned have done that, well more power to 'em. I doubt seriously I'll hang in there in education for that long but I don't make 500K a year either. ;) All of us who have been at something along time have had to do just that, or sink. Believe me...I know with 30 plus years teaching high school kids. And I firmly believe if your horse is dead, you really should dismount. Anyway, onward 'Cats!
 
Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2016 and Beyond

Well I never said the two were similar in success did I? And please don't put words in my mouth; as far as 'whether I'd admit it or not' that's for you to decide. I come here transparent as possible....and last I looked, agreeing in full with everything said here wasn't a pre-requisite for joining this forum. Definitely a task to reinvent oneself and if those two coaches you've mentioned have done that, well more power to 'em. I doubt seriously I'll hang in there in education for that long but I don't make 500K a year either. ;) All of us who have been at something along time have had to do just that, or sink. Believe me...I know with 30 plus years teaching high school kids. And I firmly believe if your horse is dead, you really should dismount. Anyway, onward 'Cats!

Interesting piece of advice there, HR. Yet our "rider" plans to ride on for another 2+ years ... for what? :confused:

It's a great job to have - pays well, lots of perks, some adulation - and over the years he's earned it.

But if you're not fully committed to doing the whole job ... then why persist in the charade?
 
How about another exception a bit closer to Dickie's home, though the fact he's ended up in D3 might make it a bit apples to oranges, but he was DU's original benefactor. Still going strong with his 600 already in the bag, is I believe a year older. No one remade themselves more then he as if there was a coach who in his mid 40's epitomized lack of interest in his program he would not be coaching 20+ years later. Understand McShane loves his gig up in Norwich and I don't believe I have heard of a succession plan either
 
Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2016 and Beyond

Well then, if its not his age and the normal age related issues - than what is it?

Not to be discounted is the fact that York has a graduate degree in Counseling/Guidance and a personal demeanor that .... well you know.

If I was dealing with a troublesome issue and thought about who I might discuss it with .... well you know.
 
Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2016 and Beyond

Yeah, we know.

It is amazing to me how a bunch people who, in all likelihood, have never met the man have been able to psychoanalyze him. I think it is ridiculous to think that on a squad of no more than 25 players, all of whom spend inordinate amounts of time with the coaching staff from the time they drift onto campus in August through the end of the season in March, that he would not get to know these people is beyond ridiculous. Whether you believe it or not, Umile is a people person. If he has a fault when it comes to his relations with the players is that he sometimes allows personalities to get in the way of making sound hockey decisions, witness the continuous faith in underperforming upperclassmen. And I'll also ask this question. For any of you who played high school sports, do you remember your freshman year? I do. I was pretty irrelevant, the coach barely knew my name. I was probably half way through my junior year before he actually came up to me and talked to me by name. Not saying Umile is the same way, I doubt he is since there are scholarships involved, but some of the comments here are really ridiculous. Carry on.
 
Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2016 and Beyond

Coach has typically played Freshman forwards, defensemen almost never. Statements from former players indicate that they have very strong relationships with Coach. I have heard indirectly, I think in jest, but probably with a grain of truth that Coach does not speak to Freshman.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/...n-away-from/S2laIBcrSLhGYC2isFqysI/story.html

Darius, I can think right off the top of my head several freshmen defensemen who played regular shifts, going back to Tim Murray. The dmen on the team this year all played significant minutes as freshmen. As for his relationship with them, Steve Saviano told me once that as a freshman, he was actually afraid of Umile at first because of his gruff manner. He softened up pretty quickly though, especially since he SS was Italian and from the Middlesex League.
 
Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2016 and Beyond

It is amazing to me how a bunch people who, in all likelihood, have never met the man have been able to psychoanalyze him. I think it is ridiculous to think that on a squad of no more than 25 players, all of whom spend inordinate amounts of time with the coaching staff from the time they drift onto campus in August through the end of the season in March, that he would not get to know these people is beyond ridiculous. Whether you believe it or not, Umile is a people person. If he has a fault when it comes to his relations with the players is that he sometimes allows personalities to get in the way of making sound hockey decisions, witness the continuous faith in underperforming upperclassmen. And I'll also ask this question. For any of you who played high school sports, do you remember your freshman year? I do. I was pretty irrelevant, the coach barely knew my name. I was probably half way through my junior year before he actually came up to me and talked to me by name. Not saying Umile is the same way, I doubt he is since there are scholarships involved, but some of the comments here are really ridiculous.

Carry on.

Permission accepted and appreciated ......
 
Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2016 and Beyond

Darius, I can think right off the top of my head several freshmen defensemen who played regular shifts, going back to Tim Murray. The dmen on the team this year all played significant minutes as freshmen. As for his relationship with them, Steve Saviano told me once that as a freshman, he was actually afraid of Umile at first because of his gruff manner. He softened up pretty quickly though, especially since he SS was Italian and from the Middlesex League.
Hey Greg, no doubt. Edit my "almost" to "relatively". It is the nature of the position. 12 forwards, 6 d-men each night and also the importance of the position, defensive mistakes vs. offensive mistakes. Sometimes I am surprised that a player is a Senior because I don't recall him having played that many previous years. This is more often with a d-man who had no Freshman and little Sophomore playing time.
 
Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2016 and Beyond

It is amazing to me how a bunch people who, in all likelihood, have never met the man have been able to psychoanalyze him. I think it is ridiculous to think that on a squad of no more than 25 players, all of whom spend inordinate amounts of time with the coaching staff from the time they drift onto campus in August through the end of the season in March, that he would not get to know these people is beyond ridiculous. Whether you believe it or not, Umile is a people person. If he has a fault when it comes to his relations with the players is that he sometimes allows personalities to get in the way of making sound hockey decisions, witness the continuous faith in underperforming upperclassmen. And I'll also ask this question. For any of you who played high school sports, do you remember your freshman year? I do. I was pretty irrelevant, the coach barely knew my name. I was probably half way through my junior year before he actually came up to me and talked to me by name. Not saying Umile is the same way, I doubt he is since there are scholarships involved, but some of the comments here are really ridiculous. Carry on.

Greg, serious question, and FWIW my (very limited) interactions with Coach in the past tells me he is a genuinely nice, stand-up guy, and UNH has been lucky to have him running the program back in his heyday ...

... so how is it that a "people person" largely washes his hands of the recruiting part of his job - you know, where you determine the future people in your program, and maximize your people skills ... while a guy who is a few years older, has accomplished a whole lot more, and has a (minor but noticeable) speech impediment, is off traipsing across North America year round to keep his program at or near the top?

If Coach Umile is indeed a "people person", why is he leaving the "face time" part of recruiting mostly (if not entirely) to his assistants? Isn't that recruiting with an arm tied behind your back? Shouldn't a "people person" be able to close with top level recruits and their families? Or is he a "people person" only in other settings?

I'm honestly struggling with this. Maybe Coach York sets an impossibly high standard ... but he is being pushed by younger guys in his own league (Bazin, Leaman and now Quinn) and is still out there battling. Jeff Jackson (*gulp*) is enjoying a renaissance at NICC. I just don't see Coach Umile keeping up with any of them. This year's UNH recruiting results have been modest at best. If the next 2 seasons are just going to be the "Dick Umile Farewell Tour", just let us know now so we can set our expectations accordingly. You know?
 
Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2016 and Beyond

Greg, serious question, and FWIW my (very limited) interactions with Coach in the past tells me he is a genuinely nice, stand-up guy, and UNH has been lucky to have him running the program back in his heyday ...

... so how is it that a "people person" largely washes his hands of the recruiting part of his job - you know, where you determine the future people in your program, and maximize your people skills ... while a guy who is a few years older, has accomplished a whole lot more, and has a (minor but noticeable) speech impediment, is off traipsing across North America year round to keep his program at or near the top?

If Coach Umile is indeed a "people person", why is he leaving the "face time" part of recruiting mostly (if not entirely) to his assistants? Isn't that recruiting with an arm tied behind your back? Shouldn't a "people person" be able to close with top level recruits and their families? Or is he a "people person" only in other settings?

I'm honestly struggling with this. Maybe Coach York sets an impossibly high standard ... but he is being pushed by younger guys in his own league (Bazin, Leaman and now Quinn) and is still out there battling. Jeff Jackson (*gulp*) is enjoying a renaissance at NICC. I just don't see Coach Umile keeping up with any of them. This year's UNH recruiting results have been modest at best. If the next 2 seasons are just going to be the "Dick Umile Farewell Tour", just let us know now so we can set our expectations accordingly. You know?

I'll start by saying that I was on the FOH board from 1992 to 2012. With my good friend Andy, I produced the Bluelines newsletter for almost that entire time. In both capacities, I got to interact with Umile on a weekly basis throughout the hockey season. On top of that, I got to know McCloskey and Lassonde and they would talk about the recruiting process. I got the impression that Brian's mission was a lot more involved than David's,, although I will say that the goaltending quality we had for most of those years was because of Lassonde. But Brian was on the road to the USHL and BCHL towns constantly. He told me more than once that Umile was only used as a closer. That once they had honed in on a recruit who might be on the fence, Umile was brought into the process to seal the deal. From talking to both of these guys, the impression was left with me that Umile left the nuts and bolts of recruiting to them. He wanted to know what was going on, of course, but he was comfortable delegating authority to them.

I spoke to a good friend of mine the other day about this "hands off" issue. My rhetorical question is, "if his emphasis on delegating authority was okay 15-20 years ago, how come it is not now?" Well the obvious answer is that we don't get the quality of players we used to. You know, there was a 10 year span from the late-90's on when UNH had at least one All-American every year, and in most years had two. It peaked in 2008 when we had four first teamers. Those guys - Regan, Flashians, Radja, Fornataro - were signed, sealed and delivered in the fall of 2004, one season removed from the Buffalo FF. After that the results were less spectacular. And why? Because the level of talent dropped off. And here is where I can see dropping some of the blame on the coach. He was stuck in the old model of letting his assistants do the work, having the faith in them to bring in the right players. But every year, just like a leaky faucet, there was this drip, drip of increasing mediocrity. Sure, we got some pretty good ones - Butler, JVR, TVR, Pesce, etc. - but you need more than a first line and one defense pairing to win in HE, and often we had less than that.

For whatever reason Umile did not call out his assistants on this diminution of talent. That's his fault. I'm not excusing him, and this is a bit of speculation, but he had operated one way for over 20 years with great success and probably never got past the idea that if it's not broke, don't fix it. I guess that is where he has shown weakness, in being unable to shift gears when the evidence that he needed to was right in front of him. In hindsight, there were many things besides the drip, drip which should have grabbed his attention - the email fiasco, the ill informed decisions to defer LaLeggia and Vechionne, the admissions stuff with White and Reid - but he was, and is, probably too set in his ways to change. The same thing happened to Parker I believe. As for York, as Dan says, he is the exception that proves the rule. And btw, we have no evidence that York is getting out on the road save for visits to local rinks.

Another, more important, BTW. I was told by the same friend referred to above that a good friend of his has a daughter who is a freshman at UNH. He was told by said friend that there is no two languages requirement at UNH, only two years of one language. If true (and I have no doubt that it is), there has been a lot of misinformation spewed out on this forum in the last few months.
 
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Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2016 and Beyond

And btw, we have no evidence that York is getting out on the road save for visits to local rinks.

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/..._york_in_special_place_on_verge_of_1000th_win

Many come because BC is a place rich in hockey tradition, a perennial national power. But they also come because York still pursues recruits with the zeal of a man half his age.

Case in point: The weekend before Christmas he wasn’t wrapping presents for under the tree with his wife Bobbie in Watertown. He was on a plane to Edmonton to watch a kid someone told him was worth seeing and he headed there with the joy of anticipation that for many college coaches fades over time.

I would bet money that the recruit is Ian Mitchell from Edmonton, who will be another Laleggia.
 
Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2016 and Beyond

I'll start by saying that I was on the FOH board from 1992 to 2012. With my good friend Andy, I produced the Bluelines newsletter for almost that entire time. In both capacities, I got to interact with Umile on a weekly basis throughout the hockey season. On top of that, I got to know McCloskey and Lassonde and they would talk about the recruiting process. I got the impression that Brian's mission was a lot more involved than David's,, although I will say that the goaltending quality we had for most of those years was because of Lassonde. But Brian was on the road to the USHL and BCHL towns constantly. He told me more than once that Umile was only used as a closer. That once they had honed in on a recruit who might be on the fence, Umile was brought into the process to seal the deal. From talking to both of these guys, the impression was left with me that Umile left the nuts and bolts of recruiting to them. He wanted to know what was going on, of course, but he was comfortable delegating authority to them.

I spoke to a good friend of mine the other day about this "hands off" issue. My rhetorical question is, "if his emphasis on delegating authority was okay 15-20 years ago, how come it is not now?" Well the obvious answer is that we don't get the quality of players we used to. You know, there was a 10 year span from the late-90's on when UNH had at least one All-American every year, and in most years had two. It peaked in 2008 when we had four first teamers. Those guys - Regan, Flashians, Radja, Fornataro - were signed, sealed and delivered in the fall of 2004, one season removed from the Buffalo FF. After that the results were less spectacular. And why? Because the level of talent dropped off. And here is where I can see dropping some of the blame on the coach. He was stuck in the old model of letting his assistants do the work, having the faith in them to bring in the right players. But every year, just like a leaky faucet, there was this drip, drip of increasing mediocrity. Sure, we got some pretty good ones - Butler, JVR, TVR, Pesce, etc. - but you need more than a first line and one defense pairing to win in HE, and often we had less than that.

For whatever reason Umile did not call out his assistants on this diminution of talent. That's his fault. I'm not excusing him, and this is a bit of speculation, but he had operated one way for over 20 years with great success and probably never got past the idea that if it's not broke, don't fix it. I guess that is where he has shown weakness, in being unable to shift gears when the evidence that he needed to was right in front of him. In hindsight, there were many things besides the drip, drip which should have grabbed his attention - the email fiasco, the ill informed decisions to defer LaLeggia and Vechionne, the admissions stuff with White and Reid - but he was, and is, probably too set in his ways to change. The same thing happened to Parker I believe. As for York, as Dan says, he is the exception that proves the rule. And btw, we have no evidence that York is getting out on the road save for visits to local rinks.

Another, more important, BTW. I was told by the same friend referred to above that a good friend of his has a daughter who is a freshman at UNH. He was told by said friend that there is no two languages requirement at UNH, only two years of one language. If true (and I have no doubt that it is), there has been a lot of misinformation spewed out on this forum in the last few months.

Greg, having just had a daughter go through UNH I believe your comment regarding having a 2 year language requirement is true. (not two languages..) In fact, and I believe those who work at the U that come to this board can verify, I found this:

Admission Criteria

Baccalaureate Admissions

Most first-year students accepted to a bachelor's degree program have completed rigorous coursework with solid B+ grades, or higher.

Students should complete the following sequences of college preparatory coursework to be considered minimally* qualified for baccalaureate admission to the University:
##Four years of college preparatory English
##Three years of mathematics including Algebra I, Geometry and Algebra II
##Three years of science, two of which must be laboratory sciences
##Three years of social sciences (including U.S. History)
##Two years of a single foreign language (three years is preferred)

http://admissions.unh.edu/apply/first-year
 
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