UMaine Black Bears, 2nd verse same as the first 2016-2017

[Nick Papagiorgio]

Re: UMaine Black Bears, 2nd verse same as the first 2016-2017

You'd have a tough time convincing me the sixth place team in Hockey East is very deserving of a place in the NCAA tournament.

If using results from all games was used for Hockey East standings you would have had a close to good point.

 

[amkirby10]

Re: UMaine Black Bears, 2nd verse same as the first 2016-2017

Hate to be heretical again, but...

Say Maine shot massive bolts of blue lightning out its heinie, and somehow finagled the Hockey East AQ.. Would that make any of us feel as though this program has turned a corner?

Nope.

Just as soon see UVM get into the NCAAs, to be honest. The more HEA teams in there, the better, and Maine doesn't even deserve a sniff in the first place.

Not being disloyal, just being fair here. Face it, Maine has no business even being in the mix.

Maybe it's just my unbounded optimism for Maine hockey, but I think the program definitely has started to make that turn and has better days ahead. While we will certainly miss guys like Byron and Brown from a leadership standpoint, we have a lot of new recruits who have plenty of offensive talent, like Dawe, Westerlund, Tralmaks, etc. Add that in to some talented new guys on the back end like Keeper and Binner, and put them with all the guys who will be coming back next year, I would venture to say that's a team that could move up a few spots in the HE standings and be in a position for a breakout in 2018-19

 

[UVM Cat in Texas]

Re: UMaine Black Bears, 2nd verse same as the first 2016-2017

UVM fans are saying one of there better players may be out? That can't hurt

Sadly, this is true. Ross Colton, our freshman phenom and leading scorer, will likely not be able to go. I expect us to win, but wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't easy. You guys have been in most games and probably should have won more than you did. See also 2 or 3 seasons ago, when we beat you like a drum during the regular season (4-0), but you took us to overtime in game 3 of the series.

 

[chickod]

Re: UMaine Black Bears, 2nd verse same as the first 2016-2017

You play the games on the ice, if Maine wins they deserve to be where they are. Same with if/when they lose . I doubt Maine wins a series but I sure would love to see it

Yes....BUT. The issue is more about who makes the playoffs. We all know it's a money-making thing. More games = more revenue. We get it. The point is more that should a team that finishes 11th in a 12-team league be in the playoffs?

Now, if your point is once you ARE there than you have just as much of a chance as anyone else, then, of course, that's correct. But it doesn't (IMO) eliminate the stench of all of this.

And by the way, it's not personal against Maine. I have been on this rant for about 20 years. My #1 prime example: the NCAA Basketball "Tournament." So if you are in a mid-major conference...let's just say in this case, the Patriot League. So say BU goes 20-5 and loses in their conference tournament. Because the league is ranked the lowest in the country (if not the lowest, the next lowest), ONLY their conference "tournament" winner gets an NCAA bid. Yet...39 teams from the Big Ten get in. Because the "argument" is, "Well, the 39th team in the Big Ten is BETTER than your regular season winner." Fine...but it's not the TEAM'S fault that they play in that league. You can only beat who you play. Why have leagues then? The system renders the regular season completely worthless (oh, wait, they make more money...forgot about that). Why not just have all "independents" and take the best 64 teams? Because that's essentially what they are doing (minus the "auto-bids").

My point is it SHOULD BE important how you fare AGAINST THE COMPETITION you PLAY. You may not control the schedule, but is it fair to finish 8th in your league, meaning that everyone beat up on you, but you still get into the "tournament" because you're "better" than some team in another league that lost one game in their conference tournament? Shouldn't you be measured by how well you do against the people you PLAY? And if the argument is that there is such a discrepancy between the "levels" of the conferences, then why not just do like they do in football? Have a "BCS" and an "FCS."

I don't blame YOU for thinking, "Hey, my team's in it. Who cares what happened in the regular season? That doesn't matter now." Of course...I'd do the same thing. But that doesn't mean that I don't think it's ridiculous to have this many teams in the "playoffs."

 

[walrus]

Re: UMaine Black Bears, 2nd verse same as the first 2016-2017

Yes....BUT. The issue is more about who makes the playoffs. We all know it's a money-making thing. More games = more revenue. We get it. The point is more that should a team that finishes 11th in a 12-team league be in the playoffs?

Now, if your point is once you ARE there than you have just as much of a chance as anyone else, then, of course, that's correct. But it doesn't (IMO) eliminate the stench of all of this.

And by the way, it's not personal against Maine. I have been on this rant for about 20 years. My #1 prime example: the NCAA Basketball "Tournament." So if you are in a mid-major conference...let's just say in this case, the Patriot League. So say BU goes 20-5 and loses in their conference tournament. Because the league is ranked the lowest in the country (if not the lowest, the next lowest), ONLY their conference "tournament" winner gets an NCAA bid. Yet...39 teams from the Big Ten get in. Because the "argument" is, "Well, the 39th team in the Big Ten is BETTER than your regular season winner." Fine...but it's not the TEAM'S fault that they play in that league. You can only beat who you play. Why have leagues then? The system renders the regular season completely worthless (oh, wait, they make more money...forgot about that). Why not just have all "independents" and take the best 64 teams? Because that's essentially what they are doing (minus the "auto-bids").

My point is it SHOULD BE important how you fare AGAINST THE COMPETITION you PLAY. You may not control the schedule, but is it fair to finish 8th in your league, meaning that everyone beat up on you, but you still get into the "tournament" because you're "better" than some team in another league that lost one game in their conference tournament? Shouldn't you be measured by how well you do against the people you PLAY? And if the argument is that there is such a discrepancy between the "levels" of the conferences, then why not just do like they do in football? Have a "BCS" and an "FCS."

I don't blame YOU for thinking, "Hey, my team's in it. Who cares what happened in the regular season? That doesn't matter now." Of course...I'd do the same thing. But that doesn't mean that I don't think it's ridiculous to have this many teams in the "playoffs."

Fine change the rules. Right now maine is in it,that's the rules. if uvm loses to maine they suck anyway so how far were they going to go ?

 

[BoSox3066]

Re: UMaine Black Bears, 2nd verse same as the first 2016-2017

What are you on about? Every team in the country makes a conf tourney and the only years some in Hockey East did ot was because they had an odd number of teams

 

[Ma#1ne Hky]

Re: UMaine Black Bears, 2nd verse same as the first 2016-2017

I think some of us are from the old school thinking that NOT all teams make the Playoffs. Times have changed and they allow pretty much every team to play Post Season. But it should go back to like in Hockey East, only 8 teams make the playoffs. But $$$$$$ talks and makes all this moot. With Maine playing Vermont this weekend, no way do I hope they lose, heck there playing so play to win....and who cares how many Hockey East teams make the NCAA's, you think when Maine plays that the bunch in Massachusetts wants Maine to make the NCAA's, or in New Hampshire/Vermont/Providence/UConn...and last but not least the vagabonds from Notre Dame...playing there last and good riddance playoff games in Hockey East...they all like seeing Maine on the bottom.

 

[walrus]

Re: UMaine Black Bears, 2nd verse same as the first 2016-2017

Maybe it's just my unbounded optimism for Maine hockey, but I think the program definitely has started to make that turn and has better days ahead. While we will certainly miss guys like Byron and Brown from a leadership standpoint, we have a lot of new recruits who have plenty of offensive talent, like Dawe, Westerlund, Tralmaks, etc. Add that in to some talented new guys on the back end like Keeper and Binner, and put them with all the guys who will be coming back next year, I would venture to say that's a team that could move up a few spots in the HE standings and be in a position for a breakout in 2018-19

I think most of us are jaded at this point, this team is going to have to show me something before I believe anything about any incoming recruit. The diamonds in the rough haven't even been cubic zirconia. I see 3 good players out of this years class, when I see next years on the ice I'll believe they are good or not.

 

[chickod]

Re: UMaine Black Bears, 2nd verse same as the first 2016-2017

...they all like seeing Maine on the bottom.

So, first of all, I prefaced my remarks by saying that it's NOT PERSONAL and that I was just using Maine as an example based on this year's results. Yes, I get it that times have changed. I acknowledged up front that it's all about the $$$$$$$$. But that doesn't make it right. Conference tournaments diminish the value of the regular season. I don't even know how anyone can argue that. So if UMass, who went 1-254 during the regular season somehow wins the HE tournament, would they "deserve" it? Yes. Is it "fair?" Not really. Why not just have the tournament and forego the regular season? I'm not entirely joking...I mean, what's the point? That's what's great about baseball. You have to pass the "test of time." You don't get to the post-season after 162 games if you suck. That's all I'm saying, that not EVERY team in every league should make the post-season.

And I don't "like seeing Maine on the bottom." One of my best friends is a UMO graduate and he loves Maine hockey. We were at the '04 Championship game vs Denver (I know you don't want me to bring that up ) and were both rooting hard for the Black Bears. And they always brought the largest crowds to the post-season tournaments, no matter where they were. I can remember the regionals in Worcester (20 minutes from my house) when they beat my alma mater (BU). The Maine fans outnumbered the Terrier fans 3-1. It was almost embarrassing. Afterwards they were skating around with Sean's jersey and everyone was going wild. No matter who you cheer for, it's a great atmosphere, good for the league and good for the game.

All things equal, I will always root for a Hockey East team over an OOC team. Personally, I think it would be fantastic for the league if they rose back into prominence. But that's another topic for another day...

 

[UML Puck Hawk]

Re: UMaine Black Bears, 2nd verse same as the first 2016-2017

What are you on about? Every team in the country makes a conf tourney and the only years some in Hockey East did ot was because they had an odd number of teams

Hockey East did it when they had 10 teams too...

 

[Fishman'81]

Re: UMaine Black Bears, 2nd verse same as the first 2016-2017

So, first of all, I prefaced my remarks by saying that it's NOT PERSONAL and that I was just using Maine as an example based on this year's results. Yes, I get it that times have changed. I acknowledged up front that it's all about the $$$$$$$$. But that doesn't make it right. Conference tournaments diminish the value of the regular season. I don't even know how anyone can argue that. So if UMass, who went 1-254 during the regular season somehow wins the HE tournament, would they "deserve" it?

That was my point, thanks.

It's fairly ridiculous that a bottom-feeder like Maine even gets a shot at advancing, when they haven't had anything resembling a decent body of work for the entire season.

If these silly conference tournaments even continue to exist, I'd include only the 2 or 4 top teams, or (preferably) get rid of them altogether... Adding a Maine to the mix cheapens the whole deal, and makes it look like the gratuitous side-show that it is.

 

[amkirby10]

Re: UMaine Black Bears, 2nd verse same as the first 2016-2017

That was my point, thanks.

It's fairly ridiculous that a bottom-feeder like Maine even gets a shot at advancing, when they haven't had anything resembling a decent body of work for the entire season.

If these silly conference tournaments even continue to exist, I'd include only the 2 or 4 top teams, or (preferably) get rid of them altogether... Adding a Maine to the mix cheapens the whole deal, and makes it look like the gratuitous side-show that it is.

Don't you think you're overreacting just a bit? It isn't as though we saw Maine get pasted every night, they lost seven games by a single goal, and another five by two goals. Defense was definitely a problem, but they scored enough to keep it competitive, most of the time. And didn't have any good bodies of work? What about beating #3 Quinnipiac, then almost beating them again the next night? Or how about beating #5 Lowell by a score of 5-2? Or even Saturday night, what about consistently battling back and finding a way to win when they didn't have the lead until the middle of the 3rd period and were down right out of the gate? The results were far from consistent, and they underachieved this season, but this team has more talent and a lot more heart than you are giving it credit for.

 

[chickod]

Re: UMaine Black Bears, 2nd verse same as the first 2016-2017

Don't you think you're overreacting just a bit? It isn't as though we saw Maine get pasted every night, they lost seven games by a single goal, and another five by two goals.

Let me repeat what I said before: <b><i>So, first of all, I prefaced my remarks by saying that it's NOT PERSONAL and that I was just using Maine as an example based on this year's results.</i></b>

My example was generic. "11th place team in League X making conference tournament." It was <b>not</b> directed at Maine. It was just an example. I wasn't saying or implying that "your team stinks." That wasn't my point. I guess I should have referenced a different league so it wouldn't seem so close to home.

And, in general, it doesn't matter if you lost 20 games by one goal. You have to have a measuring stick, and the way it's done in hockey is with goals scored. Someone has to win and someone has to lose. My point was only regarding the ridiculousness of essentially playing a "mini-season" at the end of the year, since essentially every team participates in the conference tournaments. That's all.

 

[BoSox3066]

Re: UMaine Black Bears, 2nd verse same as the first 2016-2017

Interesting that Maine still ranked 16th in the country and 5th in the conference in attendance. Wonder if the dept sees that as a positive or a negative, and how long before it falls further.

 

[walrus]

Re: UMaine Black Bears, 2nd verse same as the first 2016-2017

That was my point, thanks.

It's fairly ridiculous that a bottom-feeder like Maine even gets a shot at advancing, when they haven't had anything resembling a decent body of work for the entire season.

If these silly conference tournaments even continue to exist, I'd include only the 2 or 4 top teams, or (preferably) get rid of them altogether... Adding a Maine to the mix cheapens the whole deal, and makes it look like the gratuitous side-show that it is.

Why play the NCAAs? take the team with the best record, make them the champs. Heck in 99 Maine was hardly the best team record wise yet somehow they strung some wins together to win it all. Never should have let them play in the NCAAs, they sucked in regular season after all they were out of top 4.

There is plenty to whine about as far as Maines play is concerned, why whine about them following the rules and playing Vermont.?

 

[Bhall44]

Re: UMaine Black Bears, 2nd verse same as the first 2016-2017

Don't you think you're overreacting just a bit? It isn't as though we saw Maine get pasted every night, they lost seven games by a single goal, and another five by two goals. Defense was definitely a problem, but they scored enough to keep it competitive, most of the time. And didn't have any good bodies of work? What about beating #3 Quinnipiac, then almost beating them again the next night? Or how about beating #5 Lowell by a score of 5-2? Or even Saturday night, what about consistently battling back and finding a way to win when they didn't have the lead until the middle of the 3rd period and were down right out of the gate? The results were far from consistent, and they underachieved this season, but this team has more talent and a lot more heart than you are giving it credit for.

Well said. Welcome to the forum.

 

[NorthMike]

Re: UMaine Black Bears, 2nd verse same as the first 2016-2017

Interesting that Maine still ranked 16th in the country and 5th in the conference in attendance. Wonder if the dept sees that as a positive or a negative, and how long before it falls further.

I didn't look but it seemed more people were at the games this year vs last, but the claimed attendance numbers don't really reflect how many were there any way. It also seemed the student attendance has gotten higher, ie more unsold tickets with good student interest. Which is good for the atmosphere but not the checkbook.
It was an improvement this year not holding the home games when the students are at break providing a better game atmosphere, which also helps bring people in. I know, having a winning record would bring in more people.
It would good to know more about how the revenue is trending vs attendance.

 

[Drew S.]

I didn't look but it seemed more people were at the games this year vs last, but the claimed attendance numbers don't really reflect how many were there any way. It also seemed the student attendance has gotten higher, ie more unsold tickets with good student interest. Which is good for the atmosphere but not the checkbook.
It was an improvement this year not holding the home games when the students are at break providing a better game atmosphere, which also helps bring people in. I know, having a winning record would bring in more people.
It would good to know more about how the revenue is trending vs attendance.

Agreed. Tickets are still a bit too expensive. They would do well to discount season tickets a little more and hold single game tickets flat next year. I would guess revenue was flat compared to prior years.

 

[Runsub5]

Re: UMaine Black Bears, 2nd verse same as the first 2016-2017

Let me repeat what I said before: <b><i>So, first of all, I prefaced my remarks by saying that it's NOT PERSONAL and that I was just using Maine as an example based on this year's results.</i></b>

My example was generic. "11th place team in League X making conference tournament." It was <b>not</b> directed at Maine. It was just an example. I wasn't saying or implying that "your team stinks." That wasn't my point. I guess I should have referenced a different league so it wouldn't seem so close to home.

And, in general, it doesn't matter if you lost 20 games by one goal. You have to have a measuring stick, and the way it's done in hockey is with goals scored. Someone has to win and someone has to lose. My point was only regarding the ridiculousness of essentially playing a "mini-season" at the end of the year, since essentially every team participates in the conference tournaments. That's all.

Totally agree. Well said.

 

[amkirby10]

Let me repeat what I said before: <b><i>So, first of all, I prefaced my remarks by saying that it's NOT PERSONAL and that I was just using Maine as an example based on this year's results.</i></b>

My example was generic. "11th place team in League X making conference tournament." It was <b>not</b> directed at Maine. It was just an example. I wasn't saying or implying that "your team stinks." That wasn't my point. I guess I should have referenced a different league so it wouldn't seem so close to home.

And, in general, it doesn't matter if you lost 20 games by one goal. You have to have a measuring stick, and the way it's done in hockey is with goals scored. Someone has to win and someone has to lose. My point was only regarding the ridiculousness of essentially playing a "mini-season" at the end of the year, since essentially every team participates in the conference tournaments. That's all.

I understand what you mean, my response was directed more at the other guy who was making it sound like Maine played like Niagara this season. Frankly I mostly agree with you, I don't think every team should make the tournament either, even if that means this year Maine would be one of the ones cut off. But what we think about the format isn't the point, NCAA and HEA decide the rules, and if they want to give teams like Maine a chance to go on a run, then that's their initiative, no matter the motive, and we should just sit back and enjoy the minimum of two Maine games we have left until October.