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UCONN Hockey 2012-13: Hockey East Here We Come

Re: UCONN Hockey 2012-13: Hockey East Here We Come

I guess I didn't finish my post on the reward side. If he turns out to be as good a coach as some think he might be, it would be terrific for UConn. A long term highly successful coach who could bring the program up to the level of some of the other major programs and keep it there. He could really establish UConn as a major hockey power and be here for a long time. Intra-state battles with the Q and Yale for Connecticut Supremacy and Hockey East games against, well, everyone could be major events.
 
Re: UCONN Hockey 2012-13: Hockey East Here We Come

Jim said:
That is what I think too. Cav was the high risk high reward choice. And I think the AHA season will be tricky partly for the reasons BC/HE raised and partly because you never know what will happen when a new guy takes over. There is often a learning curve for the current players,and in this case maybe one for the head coach. And there is always the issue of whether you try and fit your system to the players or the players to the system you want to play going forward. Some coaches are perfectly happy to take a step back before going forward, others want to win now to set a precedent. Nobody really knows Cav's approach to these matters. And in this case he'll have to win over the locker room that was pretty firmly behind Berard. The problem with a disappointing final AHA season is that there is already skeptism about this move in the state, and not a little resentment too. If UConn ends up 12-24 in 9th place that will hurt the overall effort to market the program as one that's ready for the new move. Doesn't kill it permanently, but sets it back. If UConn ends up competing for participation medals in the next 5 years, it will be much trickier. On the other hand going to Hockey East as AHA Champ/with an NCAA bid will send a really positive message to both the fans and Hockey East that this is a real deal.
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Mike Cavanaugh is going to be in a very difficult position with this current group of players and it is going to be a challenge---the immediate future that is. I do not think it matters whether UConn goes into HE as AHA champs or a team that finished 7th---because the current core of players will not be the core of the team when they move to HE. There in lies the biggest challenge he will face in the immediate future.

UConn is going to get 18 scholorships---Those 18 scholorships will be handed out to Cav's guys and a few that the current staff have already promised. Bottom line is that the current group of players know that they are just sitting ducks. Will they work for the guy knowing that when he brings in 18 scholorship players they could be in the stands watching the transition to HE?

Cav is going to go in there and establish a culture, first and foremost. My guess is there WILL be a rift between him and some of the current guys---it is inevidable. This will make his job challening until he has a full team of his guys, or a full team of his guys and leftovers who have bought into his culture. This is why he will get about 3 years before he really starts to get judged.

By hiring Berard this "rift" could have been avoided. That said, Berard would have only been the better choice maybe for the next 2 years. Cav's upside is so much higher than Berards-- and once he has his guys in place the team will be competing for titles.
 
Re: UCONN Hockey 2012-13: Hockey East Here We Come

J.D. said:
Jim, you're talking about one year. If UConn takes a step back next year and then in the first year in HE, that won't be out of the ordinary. Give the guy a few years to put his stamp on the program. If he gets things going, fans aren't gonna be looking back at the disappointment of not winning the Atlantic Hockey title.
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JD, I don't disagree with you entirely. But, and this is always a problem with a new coach and especially one who has never been a head coach. When do you decide if you've made a mistake? It is even more complicated by the move up to Hockey East. The real concern is that UConn doesn't want to be UMass or Northeastern in this. Not to pick on them, but let's just say they have had modest success. We've been in the position of "just having a team" for a while, like 50 years. With Yale's success and Quinnipiac's success, UConn can't just be in Hockey East and call it good. It took Quinnipiac 5 years to go from AHA to the NCAA Finals. Rightly or wrongly, expectations for UConn will be on a similar schedule as it competes for coverage and fans. This isn't Greater Boston where every 2nd person is a hockey fan. There are certainly some, but it is a limited pool. So to me, this is about making a statement right out of the gate. Best way to do that is to win the AHA this year and go into Hockey East on high note.
 
Re: UCONN Hockey 2012-13: Hockey East Here We Come

"major hockey power"

"competing for titles"

how about you guys just worry about building/fielding a competitive team in HE.
 
Re: UCONN Hockey 2012-13: Hockey East Here We Come

all i'm saying is the administration isn't going to judge cav on what uconn does in atlantic hockey this year. in fact, his biggest job this upcoming year will be recruiting, not on ice results.

i understand you have lofty expectations, but you have to let the man recruit and see if his classes improve. then you start worrying about the on ice results.
 
Re: UCONN Hockey 2012-13: Hockey East Here We Come

Jim said:
JD, I don't disagree with you entirely. But, and this is always a problem with a new coach and especially one who has never been a head coach. When do you decide if you've made a mistake? It is even more complicated by the move up to Hockey East. The real concern is that UConn doesn't want to be UMass or Northeastern in this. Not to pick on them, but let's just say they have had modest success. We've been in the position of "just having a team" for a while, like 50 years. With Yale's success and Quinnipiac's success, UConn can't just be in Hockey East and call it good. It took Quinnipiac 5 years to go from AHA to the NCAA Finals. Rightly or wrongly, expectations for UConn will be on a similar schedule as it competes for coverage and fans. This isn't Greater Boston where every 2nd person is a hockey fan. There are certainly some, but it is a limited pool. So to me, this is about making a statement right out of the gate. Best way to do that is to win the AHA this year and go into Hockey East on high note.
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I get the urgency and the anticipation of having a winning program, but give the guy a chance. Your expectations are unrealistic. Check out Jerry York's first three seasons at BC a program that was already a respected D-I program:

94/95 11/22/3
95/96 16/17/3*
96/97 15/19/4
97/98 28/9/5

* - Cavanaugh's first year. So, if we are looking at historical data, it supports the idea that new coaches need two to three years to recruit their players and solidify their program. This data could also support the fact that Cavanaugh, together with York, had a tremendous influence in recruiting guys to a sub-500 program. This recruiting strength led BC to unprecedented success in the 21st century's first decade and then some.

Although I believe you should temper your expectations, because UConn now is not even BC in 1994/95 when they were sub-500. Cav's tasked with elevating the program into the premiere college hockey league, and winning while doing so. Judging from his history of being a winner and a leader, you are in good hands if you give him a chance.
 
Re: UCONN Hockey 2012-13: Hockey East Here We Come

Don't think you guys quite understand. We just had two years of HCPP in FB and are about to get a third. Same justifications are being used in FB as you guys are using here. If we get a repeat of that experience, it will be TOTALLY unacceptable. Figure out how to most effectively utilize the current personnel. No moving backward this year. At least one more win in the AHA tournament. That is NOT unrealistic. Full stop.
 
Re: UCONN Hockey 2012-13: Hockey East Here We Come

There isn't nearly as much pressure to win right away in college hockey as there is in college football. Your expectations are simply unreasonable. Nobody said winning AH is unrealistic. It's just irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.
 
Re: UCONN Hockey 2012-13: Hockey East Here We Come

New coaches don't win because they bring in their own (presumably better) players, they win because they get the current players to buy into a better system. They become a dynasty by recruiting the best players, and by getting them to perform their best in a better system.
 
Re: UCONN Hockey 2012-13: Hockey East Here We Come

RSTuthill said:
Don't think you guys quite understand. We just had two years of HCPP in FB and are about to get a third. Same justifications are being used in FB as you guys are using here. If we get a repeat of that experience, it will be TOTALLY unacceptable. Figure out how to most effectively utilize the current personnel. No moving backward this year. At least one more win in the AHA tournament. That is NOT unrealistic. Full stop.
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Wow, drawing the hard line. You are essentially basing your expectations on a good run the team had last year. Do you still have to walk outside to get from the locker room to the rink? Are there walls to the rink now? Is the glass plexiglass or fence? Bottomline, UConn has never been a hockey school. It appears they are ready to make a commitment to hockey, that's great. Simmah down and enjoy the new beginnings of a coach that has not only demonstrated greater success recruiting than the UConn predecessor (and your binky), but was coaching in the frozen four while UConn players had to wear skate guards to get to the ice surface.

But, yeah, one more loss than last year and all 10 of your fans should call for his head!
 
Re: UCONN Hockey 2012-13: Hockey East Here We Come

Dick hits one critical point. The other is 25 miles down the road from Storrs. Quinnipiac made a similar jump in 2004 from a weaker AHA to the ECAC and in 5 years played for the national championship. As i said, rightly or wrongly, UConn will be held to a similar standard. If in 2020 UConn is 16-20 this move will be a failure. it is important that it starts out as a success. Everybody gets that the first couple of years in Hockey East will be challenging in the extreme. We get it. You could combine Jerry York, Jack Parker and Ned Harkness as the coach and it will still be a challenge. But it can't be insurmountable and it can't look insurmountable and the best way to look that way is to fall flat this year. I'm a UConn fan and I'll follow them if they are 6-30 or 30-6. But I'm the minority. I also admit that this choice surprised me. I thought Gwozdecky was going to be the new head coach, and had heard as much from a usually reliable source (who told me about the HEA move long before it was announced...I told him he was nuts fwiw). And I've watched enough college sports to know that long time assistants are sometimes great head coaches and sometimes they are long time assistants for a reason. finally, I have been singularly unimpressed with the performance of th eUConn athletic department under Warde Manuel. Finally, I've watched UConn hockey for longer than I care to admit, from the old D3 days to the MAAC through the AHA. I watched this year's team respond to Berard and it was clear that he brought something to the table that had been missing for a long time. So given all of that I am concerned that things go in the right direction from the getgo. Everything people say about the challenges ahead is correct. But given everything going on around this move a failure to perform next season is going to raise serious concerns.
 
Re: UCONN Hockey 2012-13: Hockey East Here We Come

A little different moving from AHA to ECAC and moving to Hockey East. Perhaps expectations should be adjusted accordingly.

Either that or start loading up with 20 something Canadian freshman...
 
Re: UCONN Hockey 2012-13: Hockey East Here We Come

I think this is the perfect storm of events and the truth lies somewhere in-between everyone's comments...

Berard did a great job this year in "turning the program around" from what it had been. While that is certainly to be celebrated, he wasn't exactly filling the shoes of Herb Brooks and he was playing with house money in the sense that expectations couldn't have been high given the situation he was thrust into. As I stated earlier, I would have been supportive of Berard keeping his job, but after reflection that's probably a little more thinking with my heart than my head. I hope Berard's work this season opens up a great opportunity for him somewhere else.

Mike Cavanaugh does not have to win the AHA Championship this year...this isn't all or nothing. The current players at UConn have never had a coach with Cav's resume during their tenure at Connecticut. There won't be any players harboring ill-will towards Cav for winning the job. Once Berard lands on his feet, all of the players will embrace their new coach. Actually, the buy in should be immediate. UConn players who came to play for Bruce Marshall are now getting to play for a coach with four national championships and ten Frozen Four appearances at the signature program over the last 15 years.

Like many have said, Cav's legacy at UConn will be on how well his team does in HEA. That said, he does need to go in and make believers out of the current crop of players and have a season at least on par with last year's in effort to keep this train moving forward at a good pace. An AHA title isn't necessary, but 18-20 wins and a trip back to Rochester would be pretty reasonable for the fans to expect. If this team wins 10 games, there is a problem, regardless of whether it's AHA or HEA.

Cav has one thing going for him at UConn that is somewhat unique and that lies in the fact that he can cut anyone on the current roster without much hassle because they all pay in-state tuition as opposed to having scholarships. This will help him get "his guys" in faster. With that in mind, there are useful pieces on this current roster than he can use as he builds the program. The incoming class is solid, not earth shattering, but the 2014 group or Shane, Segalla, Salvaggio has some legitimate HEA talent.

Like I said the other day, best of luck to Cav and best of luck to Dave Berard and George Gwozdecky, both of which will certainly land in a great place.
 
Re: UCONN Hockey 2012-13: Hockey East Here We Come

Just watched the press conference online, great first impression. His statement about comparing his affection towards BC similar to his affection for Bowdoin College or his High School really made sense. You learn and develop a passion for the places you've been, but you also move on and apply those past experiences towards conquoring new challenges. I also liked his reference to the seniors of next years team. With all of the HE talk, let's not forget about winning an AHA title next year. That's the goal. Can't remember the last time I have been this excited for UConn Hockey.
 
Re: UCONN Hockey 2012-13: Hockey East Here We Come

BU2K said:
A little different moving from AHA to ECAC and moving to Hockey East. Perhaps expectations should be adjusted accordingly.

Either that or start loading up with 20 something Canadian freshman...
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Yeah, but QU didn't just move to the ECAC. You might have missed it but they played in the NCAA Finals. I would also note that the AHA of 2005 was far weaker than the AHA of 2013. So while not completely comparable, it was a pretty big jump. Agreed on the 25 year old Canadians though.
 
Re: UCONN Hockey 2012-13: Hockey East Here We Come

Jim said:
Yeah, but QU didn't just move to the ECAC. You might have missed it but they played in the NCAA Finals. I would also note that the AHA of 2005 was far weaker than the AHA of 2013. So while not completely comparable, it was a pretty big jump. Agreed on the 25 year old Canadians though.
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I never really have gotten the disgust people have for older freshman. This year's Humanitarian Award winner, Tucker Mullin, was an older freshman. He did plenty of great things and was an exemplary student-athlete. Merrimack has had a ton of overaged Canadians and a lot of them have been scholar-athletes. I'm sure it's better to have "real" freshman who don't want to go to class like Charlie Coyle or Chris Bourque.

What I'm saying is not every school is BC that can have legit freshman and succeed. If you want to watch terrible hockey and the further demise of Division I hockey, go ahead and hate overaged freshmen.
 
Re: UCONN Hockey 2012-13: Hockey East Here We Come

CollegeHockeyRinkReport said:
I never really have gotten the disgust people have for older freshman. This year's Humanitarian Award winner, Tucker Mullin, was an older freshman. He did plenty of great things and was an exemplary student-athlete. Merrimack has had a ton of overaged Canadians and a lot of them have been scholar-athletes. I'm sure it's better to have "real" freshman who don't want to go to class like Charlie Coyle or Chris Bourque.

What I'm saying is not every school is BC that can have legit freshman and succeed. If you want to watch terrible hockey and the further demise of Division I hockey, go ahead and hate overaged freshmen.
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Because supposedly you're supposed to be 18 when going to college. No older, no younger. Never mind those that serve in the military and THEN go to college on scholarship.
 
Re: UCONN Hockey 2012-13: Hockey East Here We Come

Hockeyjunkie,

I think that's a pretty reasonable analysis. I hope Cav is the right guy. He clearly has a resume, but I always have concerns about the longtime assistant to a legendary head coach. And while I admit hockey can be a different animal in part because there are only a limited number of teams, coaches, even bad ones, tend to have relatively long tenures compared to other sports, and you can probably do better as the top assistant at a BC than as the head coach at Canisius for example, that makes movement even less frequent. But the sports world is full of legendary coaches' top assistants who flame out when they become head coaches.(Hi, Charlie Weis). Sometimes what makes a guy a great assistant is not conducive to success as a head coach. Just hanging around a great head coach, and York certainly is one, doesn't guarantee you will absorb those traits. And again, basketball isn't hockey, but UConn's entire basketball staff consists of UConn assistant coaches who flamed out as head coaches, despite working for one of the top college coaches of his era. And I have to say that I have very little confidence in Warde Manuel to make this decision, though again, I concede he did a nice job on the hockey front not letting this opportunity go by, something his predecessor would have done I suspect. But overall, I have very little faith in the guy, and I suspect he was motivated to pick a candidate who would be Warde Manuel's choice more than the best choice. They might be one and the same, don't get me wrong, but if so I'm of the opinion that Cav is the nut to Warde's blind squirrel, based on his performance to date as AD. Manuel's been a disaster in his decision-making. That isn't a knock on Cavanaugh. He'll get a chance to demonstrate what he can do. It is just that I'm skeptical of any decision Warde makes that is not absolutely clear.
 
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