I think the wording they used was “tabled.” It wasn’t outright refused, just kept on file.
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U of Illinois AD & NHL joint press conference
- Thread starter 4four4
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I think the wording they used was “tabled.” It wasn’t outright refused, just kept on file.
Re: U of Illinois AD & NHL joint press conference
Fenton never explicitly used the word "tabled" and I never said it was "refused". In 2016 both formal apps from MSUM and ASU to the NCHC were rejected or denied "at this time". Might be revisited in the future, maybe not. But Fenton left the door open. The NCHC has proven in recent years it is one of the strongest, if not the strongest NCAA D1 conference. There's no urgency for them to expand competitively or financially "at this time".
According to CHN, WCHA rejected ASU primarily because of geographic distance and travel expense. ASU would not supplement WCHA travel budgets much like the two Alaska teams do. Duluth to Tempe is further than BG To Tempe. BG estimated that travel cost alone was in the neighborhood of $15K/series. One of several considerations in regards to inc. travel budgets for NCHA teams. I tend to think the major factor is the arena issue though.
EDIT:
Grand Forks, Oxford and Duluth are all further than BG.
Fenton never explicitly used the word "tabled" and I never said it was "refused". In 2016 both formal apps from MSUM and ASU to the NCHC were rejected or denied "at this time". Might be revisited in the future, maybe not. But Fenton left the door open. The NCHC has proven in recent years it is one of the strongest, if not the strongest NCAA D1 conference. There's no urgency for them to expand competitively or financially "at this time".
According to CHN, WCHA rejected ASU primarily because of geographic distance and travel expense. ASU would not supplement WCHA travel budgets much like the two Alaska teams do. Duluth to Tempe is further than BG To Tempe. BG estimated that travel cost alone was in the neighborhood of $15K/series. One of several considerations in regards to inc. travel budgets for NCHA teams. I tend to think the major factor is the arena issue though.
EDIT:
Grand Forks, Oxford and Duluth are all further than BG.
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RaceBoarder
Waiting for the Snow to fly...
Re: U of Illinois AD & NHL joint press conference
This latest round of press was probably just a fundraising tactic.... Convince a few more big $ donors to cough up those last few dollars to make this a reality... Seems like Illinois got a ton of $100k donors vs a single, Terry Pegula type for this deal....
This latest round of press was probably just a fundraising tactic.... Convince a few more big $ donors to cough up those last few dollars to make this a reality... Seems like Illinois got a ton of $100k donors vs a single, Terry Pegula type for this deal....
FlagDUDE08
Banned
Re: U of Illinois AD & NHL joint press conference
At least there's two Colorado schools, which makes the last week's budget containment a possibility. Unless a Southern California college or maybe a UNLV puts together a hockey team, I don't foresee ASU being easily welcomed into one of the western conferences. Atlantic is a REAL longshot, but that's already a cost containment league having to house USAFA (~750 miles away).
At least there's two Colorado schools, which makes the last week's budget containment a possibility. Unless a Southern California college or maybe a UNLV puts together a hockey team, I don't foresee ASU being easily welcomed into one of the western conferences. Atlantic is a REAL longshot, but that's already a cost containment league having to house USAFA (~750 miles away).
CC is 11 1/2 hours, Denver 12 1/2 by bus from Tempe, and that’s without meal stops. Unless UNLV has a Pegula, that’s not happening either. They would have to build a rink. The Orleans isn’t available and the Thomas & Mack & TMobile aren’t financially feasible. The Knights practice rink in Summerlin doesn’t have the seating capacity.
FlagDUDE08
Banned
Re: U of Illinois AD & NHL joint press conference
Well obviously the costs are substantial. The point was mostly surrounding how the WCHA and NCHC are "cost containing" at least one weekend by having the "nearby teams" play each other. Could it work with an odd number of teams and then ASU gets a "bye" that final week? Perhaps.
Well obviously the costs are substantial. The point was mostly surrounding how the WCHA and NCHC are "cost containing" at least one weekend by having the "nearby teams" play each other. Could it work with an odd number of teams and then ASU gets a "bye" that final week? Perhaps.
I would not call Mankato and Bemidji close or even nearby. Ditto for UND and (UNO/SCSU).
Re: U of Illinois AD & NHL joint press conference
I read that apparently the ASU and MSUM apps were intentionally delivered to the NCHC together as an attactive package that would immediately balance the conf. to 10 teams for scheduling purposes.
ASU applying alone had no added value to the NCHC in terms of adding to their number of members, a long standing and competitive hockey tradition, a suitable arena, and travel costs.
The NCHC made a statement when they denied both indicating they are doing just fine.
There doesn't appear to be any rumblings lately from MSUM to make a move. I'd be surprised if they try to apply again soon. MSUM was the #1 goal scoring team in the NCAA last season and they seem content to win RS championships, make the NCAAs, and try to win their first Natty under Hastings in the WCHA for now.
ASU walked away from negotiations with NCHC content to wait it out as an Independent until the arena is built. Then I think they'll opt to apply again for entry into the NCHC first over the WCHA.
In talks with the WCHA over travel subsidies, ASU walked away feeling they were being financially exploited as a large school with a large budget. But if the NCHC doesn't open up, they may cave on the deal with the WCHA afterall. The arena is scheduled for completion by Nov. 2020. My guessimate is they'll be in a conf. by the 2020-21 season.
I read that apparently the ASU and MSUM apps were intentionally delivered to the NCHC together as an attactive package that would immediately balance the conf. to 10 teams for scheduling purposes.
ASU applying alone had no added value to the NCHC in terms of adding to their number of members, a long standing and competitive hockey tradition, a suitable arena, and travel costs.
The NCHC made a statement when they denied both indicating they are doing just fine.
There doesn't appear to be any rumblings lately from MSUM to make a move. I'd be surprised if they try to apply again soon. MSUM was the #1 goal scoring team in the NCAA last season and they seem content to win RS championships, make the NCAAs, and try to win their first Natty under Hastings in the WCHA for now.
ASU walked away from negotiations with NCHC content to wait it out as an Independent until the arena is built. Then I think they'll opt to apply again for entry into the NCHC first over the WCHA.
In talks with the WCHA over travel subsidies, ASU walked away feeling they were being financially exploited as a large school with a large budget. But if the NCHC doesn't open up, they may cave on the deal with the WCHA afterall. The arena is scheduled for completion by Nov. 2020. My guessimate is they'll be in a conf. by the 2020-21 season.
Re: U of Illinois AD & NHL joint press conference
According to letsgodu.com, here are the top 5 reasons the NCHC should accept ASU after they complete their new arena:
1) Any fear that ASU would hurt the power rating of the NCHC is unfounded. Just look at what Penn State has done and realize that there are more Division I players available to play college hockey than there are spots on teams. Add a power 5 school with a great campus and new facility – they are not going to have a problem drawing quality coaches and players.
2) There are no guarantees that the NCHC will remain unchanged. At various times there have been rumors of the Big 10 pursuing North Dakota, Colorado College dropping hockey, and Miami leaving the conference. Other members have had financial challenges such as Omaha, Western Michigan and St. Cloud State which have faced athletic department cuts. It quickly becomes clear that things can change quickly in college athletics. This is no time to be complacent.
3) The hockey landscape is shifting along with the population. The reality is that places like Nashville, Phoenix and Las Vegas have solid demand for hockey. While Ohio, Michigan, North Dakota and Minnesota are traditional hotbeds, the growth is going to come in the west and southeast. The NCHC would be smart to seize the moment and secure a major market(s) while they have the power to do so.
4) If the concern, longer term, is ASU and/or UNLV leaving the NCHC for Power-5 conferences, build in a substantial penalty for any new entrant that decide to exit the conference. Plus, the reality is that it would be an extremely long time before the Pac-12 would have the resources or desire to add the necessary six teams to form a stand-alone conference.
5) Finally, no offense to Grand Forks, Duluth, or Staughton but many of the current NCHC schools are not exactly located in ideal winter destinations. Adding warm weather sites would create some winter destination trips that, from a Denver standpoint, would get fans on airplanes and in their cars to watch their team on the road. We got a taste of what that was like at the Frozen Four in Tampa.
#3 caught my attention and seems like a good marketing move considering the NHL has committed recently to supporting college hockey more in the future, ergo the IU feasibility study. Not sure what plans UNLV have for a D1 program, but with the upstart success of the Vegas Golden Knights, that seems like a viable option for UNLV to explore.
They've got a club team called the UNLV Rebels, a team I played against in the minors. Good team and they play at City National Arena where the Golden Knights practice. It only seats 600 though, so an arena option is one big missing piece of that puzzle.
<img src="https://letsgodu.files.wordpress.com/2018/01/nchc-new.jpg?w=474" class="irc_mi" style="margin-top: 6px;" height="300" width="700">
According to letsgodu.com, here are the top 5 reasons the NCHC should accept ASU after they complete their new arena:
1) Any fear that ASU would hurt the power rating of the NCHC is unfounded. Just look at what Penn State has done and realize that there are more Division I players available to play college hockey than there are spots on teams. Add a power 5 school with a great campus and new facility – they are not going to have a problem drawing quality coaches and players.
2) There are no guarantees that the NCHC will remain unchanged. At various times there have been rumors of the Big 10 pursuing North Dakota, Colorado College dropping hockey, and Miami leaving the conference. Other members have had financial challenges such as Omaha, Western Michigan and St. Cloud State which have faced athletic department cuts. It quickly becomes clear that things can change quickly in college athletics. This is no time to be complacent.
3) The hockey landscape is shifting along with the population. The reality is that places like Nashville, Phoenix and Las Vegas have solid demand for hockey. While Ohio, Michigan, North Dakota and Minnesota are traditional hotbeds, the growth is going to come in the west and southeast. The NCHC would be smart to seize the moment and secure a major market(s) while they have the power to do so.
4) If the concern, longer term, is ASU and/or UNLV leaving the NCHC for Power-5 conferences, build in a substantial penalty for any new entrant that decide to exit the conference. Plus, the reality is that it would be an extremely long time before the Pac-12 would have the resources or desire to add the necessary six teams to form a stand-alone conference.
5) Finally, no offense to Grand Forks, Duluth, or Staughton but many of the current NCHC schools are not exactly located in ideal winter destinations. Adding warm weather sites would create some winter destination trips that, from a Denver standpoint, would get fans on airplanes and in their cars to watch their team on the road. We got a taste of what that was like at the Frozen Four in Tampa.
#3 caught my attention and seems like a good marketing move considering the NHL has committed recently to supporting college hockey more in the future, ergo the IU feasibility study. Not sure what plans UNLV have for a D1 program, but with the upstart success of the Vegas Golden Knights, that seems like a viable option for UNLV to explore.
They've got a club team called the UNLV Rebels, a team I played against in the minors. Good team and they play at City National Arena where the Golden Knights practice. It only seats 600 though, so an arena option is one big missing piece of that puzzle.
<img src="https://letsgodu.files.wordpress.com/2018/01/nchc-new.jpg?w=474" class="irc_mi" style="margin-top: 6px;" height="300" width="700">
SiouxFanatic
Registered User
Good to know Denver’s 5 fans would travel if it meant warmer weather. What a boon that’ll be!
FlagDUDE08
Banned
Re: U of Illinois AD & NHL joint press conference
UND and UNO are 500 miles away, shorter than UAH/BGSU (around 550), and easily done in a day, having gone from North Dakota to Omaha myself during the winter. UND/SCSU is 250, and Mankato/Bemidji about the same. However it's not like they're looking to become travel partners or anything, similar to the ECAC. They'll still do 2 game series for the most part.
UND and UNO are 500 miles away, shorter than UAH/BGSU (around 550), and easily done in a day, having gone from North Dakota to Omaha myself during the winter. UND/SCSU is 250, and Mankato/Bemidji about the same. However it's not like they're looking to become travel partners or anything, similar to the ECAC. They'll still do 2 game series for the most part.
FlagDUDE08
Banned
Re: U of Illinois AD & NHL joint press conference
I think ASU's biggest mistake in that whole thing was to try to go in as a package at this time with someone not even close to them in distance (USAFA could have been a juicier sell, since they've been whupping butt in Atlantic, and the CHA proved no loyalty to Army). This will probably be treated similar to UAH's fight to get into a conference, although they had a little bit of help with BGSU having somewhat of a direct route, and ASU actually has full backing of the athletic administration (tl;dr Puck Fortera). However, going in alone could actually work to their advantage now, as we are seeing some good examples of odd team scheduling from the west with B1G's experiment, and then more so with HEA (including their days with ND although they immediately wanted 12 at the time) and Atlantic (remember USAFA is 1400 miles from their closest opponent, and the league is quite budget conscious). Yes, USAFA had to make a number of concessions when they first joined when it came to eastern teams traveling, but it seems a bit stabilized now with everyone having an equal number of home/away games.
I think ASU's biggest mistake in that whole thing was to try to go in as a package at this time with someone not even close to them in distance (USAFA could have been a juicier sell, since they've been whupping butt in Atlantic, and the CHA proved no loyalty to Army). This will probably be treated similar to UAH's fight to get into a conference, although they had a little bit of help with BGSU having somewhat of a direct route, and ASU actually has full backing of the athletic administration (tl;dr Puck Fortera). However, going in alone could actually work to their advantage now, as we are seeing some good examples of odd team scheduling from the west with B1G's experiment, and then more so with HEA (including their days with ND although they immediately wanted 12 at the time) and Atlantic (remember USAFA is 1400 miles from their closest opponent, and the league is quite budget conscious). Yes, USAFA had to make a number of concessions when they first joined when it came to eastern teams traveling, but it seems a bit stabilized now with everyone having an equal number of home/away games.
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Russell Jaslow
Registered User
Re: U of Illinois AD & NHL joint press conference
Kind of like what companies say after they receive your resume...
Kind of like what companies say after they receive your resume...
JohnsonsJerseys
Michigan Tech Fan
Re: U of Illinois AD & NHL joint press conference
At this point, ASU is barely ahead of Illinios or UNLV or whoever else wants to be thrown out to the media as the next hotbed college hockey market and ASU has had a four year head start. For all of ASU's resources, they have been all talk and no action to this point. The NCHC doesn't want a deadbeat program even if they are next door neighbors with DU/CC and the WCHA doesn't want another long road trip unless ASU is going to cough up the money to pay the WCHA teams to make the trip on a regular basis.
Ryan
An arena for ASU is still a pipe dream. The only real plans for the rink exist on message boards and chat rooms developed by hockey fans. Six months ago they said the new rink was a go, yet nothing of any real sustance has happened in those six months. Even last Jan when the "plan" was announced, they said nothing was going to happen until Feb 2019. If they don't start moving some dirt soon, ASU may not have a hockey team in 2020, much less a conference home. To this point, ASU hasn't done anything except stir the media pot with "It's coming soon..." and "We're working on it..."
At this point, ASU is barely ahead of Illinios or UNLV or whoever else wants to be thrown out to the media as the next hotbed college hockey market and ASU has had a four year head start. For all of ASU's resources, they have been all talk and no action to this point. The NCHC doesn't want a deadbeat program even if they are next door neighbors with DU/CC and the WCHA doesn't want another long road trip unless ASU is going to cough up the money to pay the WCHA teams to make the trip on a regular basis.
Ryan
Re: U of Illinois AD & NHL joint press conference
It's beyond talk at this point. Plans for a 180,000 sq. ft. hockey arena and a renovation to Wells Fargo Arena were approved by the ASU Board of Regents in Feb. and design bids were scheduled for award last month to begin construction early 2019. About half of the 160M will be for arena construction. Anderson says it'll be done by the 2020-21 season > ARTICLE.
It's beyond talk at this point. Plans for a 180,000 sq. ft. hockey arena and a renovation to Wells Fargo Arena were approved by the ASU Board of Regents in Feb. and design bids were scheduled for award last month to begin construction early 2019. About half of the 160M will be for arena construction. Anderson says it'll be done by the 2020-21 season > ARTICLE.
JohnsonsJerseys
Michigan Tech Fan
Re: U of Illinois AD & NHL joint press conference
Q: What have we seen out of ASU since that "approval" announcement?
A: ???? Rink plans? Renderings? Construction timeline? Name of the general contractor? Anything?
They were supposed to put plans together and then bring those back for approval and there hasn't been peep about the rink since. Thus my point, it's still all talk if they have nothing new 5+ months after the approval to go forward with the project. If they had anything ready, even proposed, they would be showing it all over hyping up their new building.
Unless they are building a pole barn with 5,000 bench seats, they are not going to have a new rink for the 2020-21 season based on what progress they have made thus far.
Ryan
And so back to my original question...
Q: What have we seen out of ASU since that "approval" announcement?
A: ???? Rink plans? Renderings? Construction timeline? Name of the general contractor? Anything?
They were supposed to put plans together and then bring those back for approval and there hasn't been peep about the rink since. Thus my point, it's still all talk if they have nothing new 5+ months after the approval to go forward with the project. If they had anything ready, even proposed, they would be showing it all over hyping up their new building.
Unless they are building a pole barn with 5,000 bench seats, they are not going to have a new rink for the 2020-21 season based on what progress they have made thus far.
Ryan
TigerFan86-87
R!!!!...I!!!!!...T!!!!!!
Re: U of Illinois AD & NHL joint press conference
Further from where, exactly? Grand Forks (1719), Oxford (1776) and Duluth (1786) are all 100+ miles closer to Tempe than Bowling Green (1902)
Further from where, exactly? Grand Forks (1719), Oxford (1776) and Duluth (1786) are all 100+ miles closer to Tempe than Bowling Green (1902)
TalonsUpPuckDown
Roll along you BG Warriors!
Re: U of Illinois AD & NHL joint press conference
Depends on whether you measure by geography or time spent traveling. BG is an hour bus ride from DTW, Miami State is an hour from CVG (meaning no connections). I'm guessing Grand Forks/Duluth/K'zoo requires a connection to PHX? If so, then it's arguably "shorter" in travel time from BG or Oxford compared with the others. Not sure about costs, but I assume airfare is not materially different across all these schools. But honestly, we're splitting the atom here. 100 mi on an airline trip to Phoenix isn't the deciding factor in any of this, it's whether you want to fork over the $15-20k for the trip in the first place.
Depends on whether you measure by geography or time spent traveling. BG is an hour bus ride from DTW, Miami State is an hour from CVG (meaning no connections). I'm guessing Grand Forks/Duluth/K'zoo requires a connection to PHX? If so, then it's arguably "shorter" in travel time from BG or Oxford compared with the others. Not sure about costs, but I assume airfare is not materially different across all these schools. But honestly, we're splitting the atom here. 100 mi on an airline trip to Phoenix isn't the deciding factor in any of this, it's whether you want to fork over the $15-20k for the trip in the first place.
St. Clown
Ideas Posted are Likely Not My Own
Re: U of Illinois AD & NHL joint press conference
Are these road map distances or great circle distances?
Are these road map distances or great circle distances?