This Week in ECAC Hockey: Packed Playoffs

[Maine-iac]

Re: This Week in ECAC Hockey: Packed Playoffs

Yes, that's true but the poll response says, "cut the number of byes in half". Not sure how he'd get that to work out.

You're right, my bad. Okay, given that requirement, it could porceed as:

Seeds 1 and 2 get TWO rounds worth of byes. (An idea I don't like).
Seeds 3 thru 10 (3 vs 10, 4 vs 9, 5 vs 8, 6 vs 7) play best of three series.
Winners of the first round series play another series [likely with reseeding].
Now you have four teams left, for the semis and championship games.

I've seen this scenario in basketball playoffs (one game vs best of 3 series), and for my taste: it sucks. It gives too much credit to the #1 and 2 seeds.

 

[Red Cloud]

Re: This Week in ECAC Hockey: Packed Playoffs

You're right, my bad. Okay, given that requirement, it could porceed as:

Seeds 1 and 2 get TWO rounds worth of byes. (An idea I don't like).
Seeds 3 thru 10 (3 vs 10, 4 vs 9, 5 vs 8, 6 vs 7) play best of three series.
Winners of the first round series play another series [likely with reseeding].
Now you have four teams left, for the semis and championship games.

I've seen this scenario in basketball playoffs (one game vs best of 3 series), and for my taste: it sucks. It gives too much credit to the #1 and 2 seeds.

Two rounds of byes doesn't really make any sense.

If you're going to have 10 teams qualify, they need to bring back the Final Five, which means nobody has a bye. That, I would not have as much of a problem with, but I'm still fine with 12 teams.

 

[SlyFoxMan7]

Re: This Week in ECAC Hockey: Packed Playoffs

You're right, my bad. Okay, given that requirement, it could porceed as:

Seeds 1 and 2 get TWO rounds worth of byes. (An idea I don't like).
Seeds 3 thru 10 (3 vs 10, 4 vs 9, 5 vs 8, 6 vs 7) play best of three series.
Winners of the first round series play another series [likely with reseeding].
Now you have four teams left, for the semis and championship games.

I've seen this scenario in basketball playoffs (one game vs best of 3 series), and for my taste: it sucks. It gives too much credit to the #1 and 2 seeds.

I was thinking of that but two rounds of byes is crazy, especially if they are played over a span of two weeks. Would the top two teams even want two weeks off? If this is what he had in mind, I would change my vote to having all 12 teams make it.

 

[Wholin1]

Re: This Week in ECAC Hockey: Packed Playoffs

I was thinking of that but two rounds of byes is crazy, especially if they are played over a span of two weeks. Would the top two teams even want two weeks off? If this is what he had in mind, I would change my vote to having all 12 teams make it.

Me too.

 

[ECACHL writer]

Re: This Week in ECAC Hockey: Packed Playoffs

To tell you the truth, I didn't think the 10-team option through carefully enough ... for what it's worth, I suppose if it were a 10-team pool, I'd have two play-in games (or series) between the bottom four teams, with the winners advancing to play the league's top six teams.

 

[Red Cloud]

Re: This Week in ECAC Hockey: Packed Playoffs

To tell you the truth, I didn't think the 10-team option through carefully enough ... for what it's worth, I suppose if it were a 10-team pool, I'd have two play-in games (or series) between the bottom four teams, with the winners advancing to play the league's top six teams.

Which... then creates a situation where 3 teams advance.

The only way to do a 10 team tournament is the way the ECAC used to do it and the way the WCHA still does it - no byes, 1 plays 10, 2 plays 9 and so on, with a Final Five. I wouldn't be in complete objection to that if that's what they wanted to go back to, but as the choices go, I'll stick with everyone making it.

 

[burgie12]

Re: This Week in ECAC Hockey: Packed Playoffs

Which... then creates a situation where 3 teams advance.

The only way to do a 10 team tournament is the way the ECAC used to do it and the way the WCHA still does it - no byes, 1 plays 10, 2 plays 9 and so on, with a Final Five. I wouldn't be in complete objection to that if that's what they wanted to go back to, but as the choices go, I'll stick with everyone making it.

No, Brian's suggestion is how the AHA handles it currently. 7-10 and 8-9 for the preliminary round. Then, there are 3-game series between 1-lowest, 2-other play-in winner, 3-6, and 4-5. Those 4 winners advance to the final weekend.

I am also still staying with my "All 12 teams should make it" vote, because the regular season cannot be expanded and you cannot eliminate teams on so few league games.

 

[Red Cloud]

Re: This Week in ECAC Hockey: Packed Playoffs

No, Brian's suggestion is how the AHA handles it currently. 7-10 and 8-9 for the preliminary round. Then, there are 3-game series between 1-lowest, 2-other play-in winner, 3-6, and 4-5. Those 4 winners advance to the final weekend.

Oh, OK.

Yeah, that's dumb.

 

[klumpmypants]

Re: This Week in ECAC Hockey: Packed Playoffs

Oh, OK.

Yeah, that's dumb.

Because you couldn't think of it or remember this is how the ECAC used to do it even though I talked about that before, it's dumb?

I, for one, like that single-game aspect. It's why people love Championship Week and March Madness in college basketball. You could work it in with 12 teams too.

 

[TimU]

Re: This Week in ECAC Hockey: Packed Playoffs

Let's not kid ourselves, the reason the league went to a 12-team playoff format was purely revenue driven. This way, eight of the teams get an extra two or three games on their home ice.

I'm not sure I follow your math here. Under the new system, 5 through 8 get a first-round home series. Then 1 through 4 get a quarterfinal home series, just like they always did. Isn't that four of the teams getting an extra two or three games?

I do think the current system waters down the regular season a bit, particularly for teams at the bottom. My biggest problem is there is little difference between finishing 1st and 4th or 9th and 12th.

I don't think that's true at all. How many bye teams have lost their quarterfinal series since this system was implemented? I'm pretty sure the number is tiny.

The new system gives a huge advantage to the top 4 teams - which it should - while leaving open the possibility of a major upset, which makes for an exciting quarterfinal round. And if your season ends because you couldn't beat the 11th- or 12th-place team twice in three games on your home ice, then you don't have much to complain about.

I wouldn't get too upset if the league went back to a 10-team or even an 8-team format. But the 12-team playoff is working just fine, and if it brings in more money while giving fans extra hockey games to watch, what's wrong with that?

 

[klumpmypants]

Re: This Week in ECAC Hockey: Packed Playoffs

I'm not sure I follow your math here. Under the new system, 5 through 8 get a first-round home series. Then 1 through 4 get a quarterfinal home series, just like they always did. Isn't that four of the teams getting an extra two or three games?

I wasn't comparing systems here. I was just saying that under the current system, 8 teams get an extra 2-3 games on their ice (beyond the regular season). I was pointing out that from a revenue perspective, eight is the max number of teams to give home games too.

Looking at it your way though, the last system was 1-10 at home sites so 1-5 got home games. So the current system gives home series to an extra 3 teams, not 4.

The older 10-team system gave home series to 1-4 but also single home games to 7 and 8. That kind of screws 5 and 6 but at least they don't have to do the one-game playoff round.

I don't think that's true at all. How many bye teams have lost their quarterfinal series since this system was implemented? I'm pretty sure the number is tiny.

The new system gives a huge advantage to the top 4 teams - which it should - while leaving open the possibility of a major upset, which makes for an exciting quarterfinal round. And if your season ends because you couldn't beat the 11th- or 12th-place team twice in three games on your home ice, then you don't have much to complain about.

I wouldn't get too upset if the league went back to a 10-team or even an 8-team format. But the 12-team playoff is working just fine, and if it brings in more money while giving fans extra hockey games to watch, what's wrong with that?

I said that it waters down the regular season, not that it produces too many major upsets. I don't see that as being a problem. Three games on one's home ice is a good enough advantage.

But it does water down the regular season. Just take a peak at the Union discussion board right now to see what I mean. All they are concerned about is Union wrapping up their bye, which it will take a combination of miracles for them not to get. No one is talking about them actually winning the reg season title, which they have a very good chance at. This is my problem with the current system. The real race is for 4th place, not 1st. Everyone knows that if you finish in the top four, that if you ever play any of the other top 4 teams in the tourney, it will be on neutral ice anyway.

That is one good thing about a final five or super 6 format. Gives an extra advantage to the top team. And you can still do it with all 12 teams in. Just have 9-12 play down before the first round.

 

[TimU]

Re: This Week in ECAC Hockey: Packed Playoffs

But it does water down the regular season. Just take a peak at the Union discussion board right now to see what I mean. All they are concerned about is Union wrapping up their bye, which it will take a combination of miracles for them not to get. No one is talking about them actually winning the reg season title, which they have a very good chance at. This is my problem with the current system. The real race is for 4th place, not 1st.

The coaches and players want to finish first, for seeding purposes and for pride. The Union thread doesn't concern me at all. And the flip side of your point is that the new format makes seeding and placement crucial for ALL teams, 1 through 12, and pretty much eliminates meaningless RS games.

Everyone knows that if you finish in the top four, that if you ever play any of the other top 4 teams in the tourney, it will be on neutral ice anyway.

Isn't that true under every format?

 

[klumpmypants]

Re: This Week in ECAC Hockey: Packed Playoffs

And the flip side of your point is that the new format makes seeding and placement crucial for ALL teams, 1 through 12, and pretty much eliminates meaningless RS games.

Not really sure what you mean here. Is more crucial than under different systems? I don't really care enough about this to be the guy fighting for the 10-team format. I'm fine with the way it is now. It's not like it bothers me. Nor do I doubt that the teams play every game to win.

All I am saying is a regular season that eliminates no teams is more watered down than one that does eliminate teams. And I like single-game playoffs early on because personally I find them exciting. When Yale was bad for so many years of my youth, those games were the ones I looked forward to the most.