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The States: North Dakota is Still the Worst

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Re: The States: North Dakota is Still the Worst

trixR4kids said:
Let's not let the 29 dems in the senate who voted for it off the hook either (including Biden and the 2016 dem nominee who shall not be named).
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That's what happens when you try to triangulate. You give away the moral high ground when you start playing the "smart" angles. And the thing is while there are doofuses out there with "these colors don't run" (1) they're mostly Republicans anyway and (2) there are more people who care about you having sincere positions and holding to them.

Hillary voting for the war is why she isn't President. She thought it was clever at the time. It's never clever to knowingly do the wrong thing to try to appease the dopes.
 
Re: The States: North Dakota is Still the Worst

Let's also not forget the people weren't exactly against it either.
 
Re: The States: North Dakota is Still the Worst

The politicians have far more responsibility and power than the people but yes it was popular at the time.
 
Re: The States: North Dakota is Still the Worst

The blame for Iraq falls on the Bush administration. Not on anybody else. If you recall, the Dems in the Senate were asking Shrub to give it time for the inspectors to go in there and confirm the WMD's. Knuckledraggers wouldn't allow that and asked for a resolution immediately due to an imminent threat which they backed up with doctored intelligence and even roped in the Brits for the ride. I'm not sure how you hold people who were conned as up for as much blame as the con artists themselves? :confused:
 
Re: The States: North Dakota is Still the Worst

trixR4kids said:
The politicians have far more responsibility and power than the people but yes it was popular at the time.
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War Fever is a fart. In the moment it's overwhelming but it dissipates quickly, nobody remembers it fondly, and everybody claims not to have been guilty of it.

"I support our troops therefore I won't send them into a meat grinder to prop up Exxon's third quarter earnings." Full stop. Take the heat from all the cowards who buckled for six months. Be hailed as a brave and prescient hero for the rest of your career. Because you will be.
 
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Re: The States: North Dakota is Still the Worst

Kepler said:
War Fever is a fart. In the moment it's overwhelming but it dissipates quickly, nobody remembers it fondly, and everybody claims not to have been guilty of it.
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I was highly skeptical. I did say at least once that I was ok with it if they proved there was WMD's. They didn't. And, I felt duped. Never again.
 
Re: The States: North Dakota is Still the Worst

Rover said:
The blame for Iraq falls on the Bush administration. Not on anybody else. If you recall, the Dems in the Senate were asking Shrub to give it time for the inspectors to go in there and confirm the WMD's. Knuckledraggers wouldn't allow that and asked for a resolution immediately due to an imminent threat which they backed up with doctored intelligence and even roped in the Brits for the ride. I'm not sure how you hold people who were conned as up for as much blame as the con artists themselves? :confused:
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I think posters are just being careful to recognize that people in this country are easily convinced that kicking some foreigner arse is the best solution, regardless of party affiliation. To this day, a lot of people will say the only mistake we made in Vietnam was not dropping enough bombs and burning enough huts.
 
Re: The States: North Dakota is Still the Worst

ScoobyDoo said:
I was highly skeptical. I did say at least once that I was ok with it if they proved there was WMD's. They didn't. And, I felt duped. Never again.
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Everybody feels it at the time, even smarties. That's when you have to realize you are a bag of chemicals and this is a primate threat response. War Fever is just the animal lashing out in fear. It's the opposite of reasoning. And it's the opposite of bravery -- it's the epitome of cowardice.
 
Re: The States: North Dakota is Still the Worst

burd said:
I think posters are just being careful to recognize that people in this country are easily convinced that kicking some foreigner arse is the best solution, regardless of party affiliation. To this day, a lot of people will say the only mistake we made in Vietnam was not dropping enough bombs and burning enough huts.
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Those people are criminally insane and they're straight ticket R. The battle isn't for them.

In the first few months of War Fever everyone, even D, even smarty D, is on board. The ladies line the street and the brave boys with their shining uniforms line up and march to the open maw of the pit. The collective IQ drops to zero in a flood of pheromones and grade school narratives. Everyone is, literally, stupefied -- it is The Great Hunt; the eons-old echo of our reptile brains.

And then first the smarties and then even the dummies realize what a disaster it all is. And everybody turns against it. And everyone moans oh how could we have been so shortsighted?

So... don't be. Next time it happens be ready and deny it, especially in yourself. Say, "no -- this is a drug and I am saying no to it and yes to life." Just be well protected because the rest of the mob is going to want to kill you.
 
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Re: The States: North Dakota is Still the Worst

Rover said:
The blame for Iraq falls on the Bush administration. Not on anybody else. If you recall, the Dems in the Senate were asking Shrub to give it time for the inspectors to go in there and confirm the WMD's. Knuckledraggers wouldn't allow that and asked for a resolution immediately due to an imminent threat which they backed up with doctored intelligence and even roped in the Brits for the ride. I'm not sure how you hold people who were conned as up for as much blame as the con artists themselves? :confused:
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You're the one literally blaming (individual) voters and Nader for the war and letting the politicians who actually voted for the war off the hook so...

(it's not like they couldn't have voted against the war until they actually got the info necessary to make the decision)
 
Re: The States: North Dakota is Still the Worst

15 year old me thought it’d be done and over with quickly, idk if I was actually for it or not (I kinda just told people I was a republican back then because that’s how my parents identified, but didn’t pay any attention to politics in the slightest until a couple years later).
 
Re: The States: North Dakota is Still the Worst

trixR4kids said:
The politicians have far more responsibility and power than the people but yes it was popular at the time.
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Right but if their constituents are in favor of the war isnt it also partly their responsibility to represent the people? (the Representative part of Representative Democracy)

It is easy to look back through the lens of history but back then things were different. Now the argument to that thought is "yeah but they should know better they have access to more info" which is 100% correct as well. A lot of people both in Congress and just in general believed people of honor like Colin Powell would never hitch their wagons to something unless it was legit. That was not the case and we have never really recovered from it.

Keep in my mind I am not excusing it...they all screwed up. Some mea culped and some made excuses but at the time a vote against the War was not seen well by the public so it is not surprising a lot of people let that be enough of a reason to just make the uneducated decision.
 
Re: The States: North Dakota is Still the Worst

ScoobyDoo said:
I was highly skeptical. I did say at least once that I was ok with it if they proved there was WMD's. They didn't. And, I felt duped. Never again.
Click to expand...

Me too. Once it became apparent (rather quickly) that the "evidence" was bullcrap I was out.

That was the big miscalculation by the GOPers...if they are just honest and dont lie about the WMD they probably still get their war and none of the blowback in 2008 over it. Plenty of people felt we didnt need justification to finish the job in Iraq...
 
Re: The States: North Dakota is Still the Worst

Kepler said:
Those people are criminally insane and they're straight ticket R. The battle isn't for them.

In the first few months of War Fever everyone, even D, even smarty D, is on board. The ladies line the street and the brave boys with their shining uniforms line up and march to the open maw of the pit. The collective IQ drops to zero in a flood of pheromones and grade school narratives. Everyone is, literally, stupefied -- it is The Great Hunt; the eons-old echo of our reptile brains.

And then first the smarties and then even the dummies realize what a disaster it all is. And everybody turns against it. And everyone moans oh how could we have been so shortsighted?

So... don't be. Next time it happens be ready and deny it, especially in yourself. Say, "no -- this is a drug and I am saying no to it and yes to life." Just be well protected because the rest of the mob is going to want to kill you.
Click to expand...

Well we should treat war like we treat anything...never go on first impulse take a step back, let time pass and see if you feel the same way. If you still want war with a cooler head at least it is more than rage fueling you.

Of course that isnt universal either because sometimes you need to counterpunch. The world is very different if FDR doesnt go to War almost immediately after Pearl Harbor.
 
Re: The States: North Dakota is Still the Worst

If we're directly attacked by a country obviously that changes the calculation considerably.
 
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