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The States: Mad Scientist Laboratories of Democracy

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Re: The States: Mad Scientist Laboratories of Democracy

Because lead pipes are a) common around the country and world, and b) the pipes were fine as long as the water wasn't so corrosive that it damaged them.

Correct. It was because the Flint River was so corrosive that it ate away at the lead pipes exposing it.
 
Re: The States: Mad Scientist Laboratories of Democracy

Lead pipes!? Wait is this for real? I thought the river was just a **** hole that was so polluted. Jeebus. Why hasn't the state and EPA moved in to replace the mains?
Lead pipes can be perfectly safe...if used properly.

Trivia: the Latin word for lead was "plumbum" which is where we get the term "plumbing" in the first place - and is the reason that the chemical symbol for lead is Pb.
 
Re: The States: Mad Scientist Laboratories of Democracy

Lead pipes can be perfectly safe...if used properly.

Trivia: the Latin word for lead was "plumbum" which is where we get the term "plumbing" in the first place - and is the reason that the chemical symbol for lead is Pb.

Huh. I can honestly say I learned something out here today...

Anywho, as a new parent, I can't believe this happened. Yes, I had my water tested before all this happened as I live in an older house in an older Northeast city but this is something out of a 3rd world country. Whoever made this decision needs to be prosecuted.

The problem now as I understand it is that the pipes would have been fine using the Detroit water with the treatments they add to it, but now that the Flint River water has been in the system merely going back to Detroit water may not be enough to stop the leeching of lead into the system - the river water changed the composition of the old pipes. I'll defer to the Michigan people out here, but does the state have the $$$ to replace not only the water mains, but all of the feeder pipes going into residents' homes?
 
Re: The States: Mad Scientist Laboratories of Democracy

The problem now as I understand it is that the pipes would have been fine using the Detroit water with the treatments they add to it, but now that the Flint River water has been in the system merely going back to Detroit water may not be enough to stop the leeching of lead into the system - the river water changed the composition of the old pipes. I'll defer to the Michigan people out here, but does the state have the $$$ to replace not only the water mains, but all of the feeder pipes going into residents' homes?

There was a lot of squabbling between the Teapublicans, country clubbers, and Democrats on a plan to fix the roads, which finally resulted in a $1.2 billion compromise bill that barely passed the state Congress before Snyder signed it.

In short, there's no way the state is singlehandedly paying to replace Flint's entire water system.
 
Re: The States: Mad Scientist Laboratories of Democracy

In short, there's no way the state is singlehandedly paying to replace Flint's entire water system.
Yep.

One of the big issues first is going to be the spending of money to investigate the extent of the damage. How many miles of water main need to be immediately replaced. How many miles could be "re-lined" and left in place. And how many miles just need to be treated, flushed, and they're good to go. Don't forget, sewer lines would need to be replaced or re-lined also, because the tainted water has now touched those pipes too, which lead back to Flint's water treatment plant and, once treated, re-circulated into the water system.

Second. When a baseline is established, you now have to place these project out to bid. Since every stick of bad water main and sewer pipe can't be replaced at once, you need to perform this work in stages, taking years to complete. Once article estimated the combined Flint Water and Sewer System to be 1600 miles of pipe, with a potential price tag of (minimum) $1.5 Billion (with a "B") to replace. Re-lining is potentially cheaper, but the work still needs to be done in phases. As an estimate, the City of Chicago replaces/rehabilitates 80 miles of water and sewer main a year. A project with Chicago's scope would take 20 years to replace every piece of pipe in Flint.

All the while, any service connection on private property *could* be pushed off to the home owner to take care of. Or, financial assistance made available by the city for the homeowner to take care of it themselves.

All this work also has to be done while continuing to serve these neighborhoods with water service with minimal shutdowns.
 
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Re: The States: Mad Scientist Laboratories of Democracy

I feel like all the people should just move out of Flint to someplace nice. (i.e. Let them eat cake.)
 
Re: The States: Mad Scientist Laboratories of Democracy


Yes to seat belts. The problem here is with police profiling rather than infringing on people with seatbelts. If you get rid of seatbelt laws, then more people die and police switch to profiling on other regulations assuming that profiling is occuring. Address profiling first. If there are more blacks driving without seatbelts (which seems hard to prove), then they should get pulled over in appropriate numbers (otherwise by definition profiling is occurring).
 
Re: The States: Mad Scientist Laboratories of Democracy

Yes to seat belts. The problem here is with police profiling rather than infringing on people with seatbelts. If you get rid of seatbelt laws, then more people die and police switch to profiling on other regulations assuming that profiling is occuring. Address profiling first. If there are more blacks driving without seatbelts (which seems hard to prove), then they should get pulled over in appropriate numbers (otherwise by definition profiling is occurring).

There is something to be said for the theory that proliferation of laws is a mechanism that helps the police (or the state) hassle a target. If everybody is guilty of something then they can pick up an individual and when pressed then just go charge fishing to justify it. Instant criminal: just add research.

But I'm OK with seat belt laws. You have to be a complete moron not to wear your seatbelt and morons are not a protected class yet.
 
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Re: The States: Mad Scientist Laboratories of Democracy

I feel like all the people should just move out of Flint to someplace nice. (i.e. Let them eat cake.)

I used to watch some show on Animal Planet where they followed around the animal control officers in various cities (Miami, NYC and Detroit IIRC). This was awhile ago but it appeared to me from the footage that Detroit had more pit bulls roaming around than actual people. I remember telling my wife, if you can be poor in Detroit, or you can be poor in Miami...why not just leave Detroit and move to Miami? You're still in economic distress, but at least the weather is nicer and there aren't 20 starving pit bulls chasing you down the street whenever you step outside your house.
 
Re: The States: Mad Scientist Laboratories of Democracy

He's an idiot.

He also has to pay for it. Unless the legislature authorizes big bonds, I doubt Michigan has the ready cash to pay for the materials and labor.

If I owned a house an drilled a well, could that solve the problem?
 
Re: The States: Mad Scientist Laboratories of Democracy

I'm looking forward to his departure in 2019. I voted for him in 2010... I was wrong.

I'm so glad I never pulled the lever for him. I was close in 2010, but ended up writing in None of the Above, and did the same in 2014. For me, it felt too much like he had bought the governorship as a feather in his career cap, with few substantive ideas or policies actually laid out. Unfortunately, the Democratic nominees in both elections were basically Granholm 2.0. For some reason, Snyder has always rubbed me the wrong way. Boy, do I look smart now.
 
Re: The States: Mad Scientist Laboratories of Democracy

All I know is I would be losing my mind right now if I was a parent and lived in Flint and my kids were exposed to this crap. If this ends up being like the bank bailout and no one goes to jail It's going to pretty much cement to the World that we are indeed an Oligarchy and not the free nation of the World.
 
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