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The Religion Thread: A Believer-Atheist Alliance

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Re: The Religion Thread: A Believer-Atheist Alliance

ShirtlessBob said:
I've been thinking about Prosperity Gospel, the people who share those idiotic "share and you'll be blessed" memes, and prior to that, and before Facebook/social media, the rage of the Prayer of Jabez sweeping through churches. In all cases, it sounded like "gimme gimme gimme." Televangelist twit Kenneth Copeland begging for a private jet... UGH.
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I agree with you. Having said that, its easy to generalize and miss a key part of what's going on. Most churches who ask for donations use those funds to drive programs to help people. The Kenneth Copeland jet does happen. So do countless programs for underprivileged inner city kids and clean water for 3rd world villages. The jet gets more press because its negative.

leswp1 said:
Speaking of riches saw a thing on the news last night saying the Evangelicals are flocking to support Trump. He seems to be the antithesis of Christianity- riches obtained by interesting means, certainly NOT espousing love thy neighbor. Serious question- If this is true, how does he appeal to the Evangelical Christians? What is in his platform that would appeal to them?
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Yeah, I heard that too. IMO these folks are on the right first and foremost...and have adopted their faith as black and white validation. And they have adopted Trump to deliver that same black and white validation. Never mind that the platforms are 180 degrees opposed.
 
Re: The Religion Thread: A Believer-Atheist Alliance

5mn_Major said:
Yeah, I heard that too. IMO these folks are on the right first and foremost...and have adopted their faith as black and white validation. And they have adopted Trump to deliver that same black and white validation. Never mind that the platforms are 180 degrees opposed.
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I have to say, 5mn, your faith is completely different from mine and could be characterized as fundamental in some respects. But the faith that you describe and the way you apply it here to the ideas of others is very easy to respect. I see it as a working philosophy, but I understand it is more than that to you.

The gopher fan part must be overlooked, of course.
 
Re: The Religion Thread: A Believer-Atheist Alliance

This feels relevant.

Judgmental, self-righteous oldsters are part of why young families continue to leave Catholicism and other, similarly conservative Christian denominations in droves.

This lady and her family remain devout and aren't leaving (yet), but how much more of this sort of crap can they take?

"Forgive them, Father. They know not what they do." :confused:
 
Re: The Religion Thread: A Believer-Atheist Alliance

INteresting read. Made me think of this thread.

The FB post that shared it started with this- "When you’ve spent your entire life convinced of a fundamental truth about reality, reinforcing that belief with every opportunity, it takes a great amount of intense self-reflection and willingness for painful, soul-exposing vulnerability to even engage honestly with these questions of immense importance."

A former fundamentalist explains how he changed his mind.

http://joshboeke.com/truth-and-suffering-a-religious-experience/
 
Re: The Religion Thread: A Believer-Atheist Alliance

leswp1 said:
INteresting read. Made me think of this thread.

The FB post that shared it started with this- "When you’ve spent your entire life convinced of a fundamental truth about reality, reinforcing that belief with every opportunity, it takes a great amount of intense self-reflection and willingness for painful, soul-exposing vulnerability to even engage honestly with these questions of immense importance."

A former fundamentalist explains how he changed his mind.

http://joshboeke.com/truth-and-suffering-a-religious-experience/
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Interesting read. The question is...where does the journey of self reflection stop. IMO rejecting a fundamentalist platform maybe somewhat uncommon and/or difficult. But I think its much more difficult/uncommon to continue from there.

Folks like this are still not at the end of their journey. Evidence #1 of his testimony: I see atheists on social media often who seem singularly focused on de-converting the religious. They make compelling arguments that religion is a net-negative force, that it demonizes science and divides people. It’s hard to look at the state of the world right now, engulfed in religiously motivated violence, and not feel the truth of those words. But there’s a different side of religion too, and much is lost when God dies in the human heart. Evidence #2: Even now I doubt myself all the time. I even doubt whether there is such a thing as truth at all. But maybe I’ve learned to live with my uncertainty. I just hope someday I can learn to embrace it, retaining some degree of humility in the process.

I hope he doesn't give up there, he's got more work to do. For me? As a permanent student, I learned some years ago to live with uncertainty and today totally embrace it.
 
Re: The Religion Thread: A Believer-Atheist Alliance

Atheist minister wants to keep job as minister. Outlier or beginning of a trend? Are there other "secular churches" in operation as such? I'm wondering why not just form some kind of "club" or "cultural center" or "counseling service"? Why fight to belong to a group that you disagree fundamentally with from the top down?
 
Re: The Religion Thread: A Believer-Atheist Alliance

geezer said:
Atheist minister wants to keep job as minister. Outlier or beginning of a trend? Are there other "secular churches" in operation as such? I'm wondering why not just form some kind of "club" or "cultural center" or "counseling service"? Why fight to belong to a group that you disagree fundamentally with from the top down?
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The last question is easy...she likes money.

I'm a liberal. But I think it says more about a system of extreme entitlement than about faith. She's in a job that she's not qualified for and/or is delivering a product that her customers don't want. As a result, church members are leaving. Right, wrong or indifferent, US churches cut ministers loose all the time for even poor excuses. And while one could make the argument that all ministers have a point of view, she is not advancing a view that is tangential to larger Christian views (which is bad enough) but diametrically opposed. A case of too much entitlement.
 
Re: The Religion Thread: A Believer-Atheist Alliance

5mn_Major said:
The last question is easy...she likes money.

....
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Really? Usually I understand what you're saying, without necessarily agreeing with it. But very few ministers who I'm familiar with are in it for the money. I think she (literally) wants to preach from a pulpit.

geezer said:
Atheist minister wants to keep job as minister. Outlier or beginning of a trend? Are there other "secular churches" in operation as such? I'm wondering why not just form some kind of "club" or "cultural center" or "counseling service"? Why fight to belong to a group that you disagree fundamentally with from the top down?
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Of course there are “secular churches”. Have been for a long time. But that's not what this is about. I'd support her seeking a ministerial/preaching job at a church that whose beliefs are consistent with hers. This is more akin to an Apple marketing executive fired for disparaging the iPhone and urging people to buy Samsungs.
 
Re: The Religion Thread: A Believer-Atheist Alliance

I am puzzled. This is like congratulating the B1G for starting a college hockey conference.
 
Re: The Religion Thread: A Believer-Atheist Alliance

CLS said:
Really? Usually I understand what you're saying, without necessarily agreeing with it. But very few ministers who I'm familiar with are in it for the money. I think she (literally) wants to preach from a pulpit.
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Although I'm guessing she doesn't have much prospects to make money anywhere, saying money was a bit of a stretch. She wants to keep her job...with all the personal and yes monetary benefits it provides. This because she's running the show. If she were reporting to someone with a different ideology, I assume she wouldn't have the same fervor for the job or would have left years ago.
 
Re: The Religion Thread: A Believer-Atheist Alliance

This is going to make the usual suspects howl.

Never one to shy from a headline-grabbing opportunity, the Satanic Temple (not to be confused with the Church of Satan) has teamed up with upcoming chiller The Witch to present screenings in four cities, as well as issuing a proclamation showering praise upon the film
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Given that the Fundies typically accuse every movie from Inception to The Lion King of being a cabal's secret vehicle to inject Satanism into society, I sure hope they don't disappoint this time. Whee!
 
Kepler said:
This is going to make the usual suspects howl.



Given that the Fundies typically accuse every movie from Inception to The Lion King of being a cabal's secret vehicle to inject Satanism into society, I sure hope they don't disappoint this time. Whee!
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St. Michael the Archangel,
defend us in battle.
Be our defense against the wickedness and snares of the Devil.
May God rebuke him, we humbly pray,
and do thou, O Prince of the heavenly hosts,
by the power of God, thrust into Hell Satan,
and all the evil spirits,
who prowl about the world seeking the ruin of souls.

Amen.
 
Re: The Religion Thread: A Believer-Atheist Alliance

joecct said:
St. Michael the Archangel,
defend us in battle.
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I thought you were going to go simpler.

But I feel if you're going to do it, do it right:

Father,

In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, I plead the precious uncorruptable blood of Jesus over myself and my family and everything that belongs to us. I ask for giant warrior Angels to be loosed from Heaven to surround and protect us. As your war club and weapons of war I break down, undam, and blow up all walls of protection around all witches, warlocks, wizards, satanists, and the like, and I break the power of all curses, hexes, vexes, spells, charms, fetishes, psychic prayers, psychic thought, all witchcraft, sorcery, magic, voodoo, all mind control, jinxes, potions, bewitchments, death, destruction, sickness, pain, torment, psychic power, psychic warfare, prayer chains, and everything else being sent my way or my family members way, and I return it and the demons to the senders right now!, SEVENFOLD, and I BIND it to them by the blood of Jesus.

Father, I pray that these lost souls will find the light of your son Jesus. Their own snares and traps have been set against themselves. In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth I now loose them from all mindcontrol of Satan. Father I also ask that you Bind the Holy Spirit to their hearts as a guide to your son Jesus, so they may be set free from the bondages of Satan.

In Jesus' name I pray,

Amen
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