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The PPACA Thread Part VI: Tax Cuts Are More Important Than Your Health Care!

Re: The PPACA Thread Part VI: Tax Cuts Are More Important Than Your Health Care!

I'd guess New Hampster. It's already full of anti-tax "libertarian" nutjobs.

There's another population in NH of blue collar Bostonians who made money in construction or through their cop pensions and then moved up to NH to quote get away from all the n-ggers.

It's a lovely state.
 
There's another population in NH of blue collar Bostonians who made money in construction or through their cop pensions and then moved up to NH to quote get away from all the n-ggers.

It's a lovely state.

And the taxes and intrusive government?

Live Free or Die!
 
Re: The PPACA Thread Part VI: Tax Cuts Are More Important Than Your Health Care!

Don't you know, everything has to be for racist reasons! :rolleyes:

I'm directly quoting somebody but yeah, you and Alex know them better than they do themselves.
 
Re: The PPACA Thread Part VI: Tax Cuts Are More Important Than Your Health Care!

WASHINGTON — In signing a recent executive order, President Trump promised that millions of Americans could soon obtain “great, great health care” through inexpensive plans that offer consumers options they had been denied under the Affordable Care Act.

But these health plans, created for small businesses, have a darker side: They have a long history of fraud and abuse that have left employers and employees with hundreds of millions of dollars in unpaid medical bills.

The problems are described in dozens of court cases and enforcement actions taken over more than a decade by federal and state officials who regulate the type of plans Mr. Trump is encouraging, known as association health plans.

In many cases, the Labor Department said, it has targeted “unscrupulous promoters who sell the promise of inexpensive health benefit insurance, but default on their obligations.” In several cases, it has found that people managing these health plans diverted premiums to their personal use.

Marc I. Machiz, who investigated insurance fraud as a Labor Department lawyer for more than 20 years, said the executive order was “summoning back demons from the deep.”

“Fraudulent association health plans have left hundreds of thousands of people with unpaid claims,” he said. “They operate in a regulatory never-never land between the Department of Labor and state insurance regulators.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/21/...th-plans-fraud.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur

This is another reason Obamacare happened. This is another reason why the State's cannot be trusted with your Health Care. It is amazing how every single bad idea that was fixed by Obamacare is somehow every new idea Trump and the GOP have for fixing it. WHERE ARE THE NEW IDEAS???????????????????????????
 
Re: The PPACA Thread Part VI: Tax Cuts Are More Important Than Your Health Care!

I don't know Scoobs, I've had plenty of people out here tell me the ACA was just a conservative bill that did nothing for anybody, so maybe from a lefty perspective we're all better off if it gets repealed???
 
Re: The PPACA Thread Part VI: Tax Cuts Are More Important Than Your Health Care!

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Wouldn't it be great to Repeal the very unfair and unpopular Individual Mandate in ObamaCare and use those savings for further Tax Cuts.....</p>— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) <a href="https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/925739132579729420?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 1, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Anyone care to explain this? The mandate is a tax increase to help pay for health care. How does repealing that save the Treasury money for tax cuts?

Oh, right. Tax cuts means more money which means more money for TAX CUTS.

The country will be Kansas before he's done. Enjoy.
 
Re: The PPACA Thread Part VI: Tax Cuts Are More Important Than Your Health Care!

I don't know Scoobs, I've had plenty of people out here tell me the ACA was just a conservative bill that did nothing for anybody, so maybe from a lefty perspective we're all better off if it gets repealed???

Except, of course, that nobody said this.

The ACA did start out as a conservative half-measure to cockblock Single Payer.

Nobody said it does nothing -- it does a tremendous amount of good. We could do more but absent the political will we should stick with what we have for now.

Nobody said it should be repealed except for Scooby who, I assume jokingly, said he wanted people to suffer because they voted wrong.

If you're going to debate, you ought to debate honestly. When you rely on rhetorical tricks and deliberate mischaracterizations you are only revealing your argument is weak.
 
Re: The PPACA Thread Part VI: Tax Cuts Are More Important Than Your Health Care!

Except, of course, that nobody said this.

The ACA did start out as a conservative half-measure to cockblock Single Payer.

Nobody said it does nothing -- it does a tremendous amount of good. We could do more but absent the political will we should stick with what we have for now.

Nobody said it should be repealed except for Scooby who, I assume jokingly, said he wanted people to suffer because they voted wrong.

If you're going to debate, you ought to debate honestly. When you rely on rhetorical tricks and deliberate mischaracterizations you are only revealing your argument is weak.

Kep, how many times have left leaning posters on the board called the ACA conservative light, or a Heritage foundation idea, etc. I've said this to you repeatedly, and politely for the most part, but it bears repeating. If the knuckledraggers are calling all Dem passed laws as worthless...and the liberals are also calling the very same Dem passed laws as useless, how do you expect the low attention span public to react? I will bust you for example on Dodd-Frank, where you were clueless that banks were forced to increase deposits on hand in case of another crisis (your word were "Basel III hasn't started yet so doesn't that mean nothing has gone into effect"). My suggestion is that people who are inclined to vote Dem celebrate when Dems pass a law that massively moves the ball downfield (ACA, Dodd-Frank, or from earlier times Brady Bill and CHIP) instead of spending more time whining about what wasn't included.

PS - this is a spot on quote today on topic...

“There are two types of Democrats. There are killers, and there are whiners. Unfortunately, we have too many of the latter and not enough of the former.”

— David Krone, Harry Reid’s former chief of staff, quoted by the New York Times.
 
Re: The PPACA Thread Part VI: Tax Cuts Are More Important Than Your Health Care!

Rover,
Is it not true that the ACA is based on a conservative proposal out of the heritage foundation, first implemented by Mitt Romney? I'm not saying it is worthless, but it is far from a progressive plan (single payer) A more middle ground approach would look like the ACA with a public option.

I don't think the ACA goes far enough. That doesn't mean it is worthless. It got millions of people covered that weren't otherwise. It projected people with pre-existing conditions.

I'd like to roll back the medicare eligibility age over time until everyone is covered, while at the same time raising the payroll tax for medicare. That being said, healthcare will never be controlled without some massive lifestyle changes that drastically cut the US obesity rates.
 
Re: The PPACA Thread Part VI: Tax Cuts Are More Important Than Your Health Care!

Rover,
Is it not true that the ACA is based on a conservative proposal out of the heritage foundation, first implemented by Mitt Romney? I'm not saying it is worthless, but it is far from a progressive plan (single payer) A more middle ground approach would look like the ACA with a public option.

I don't think the ACA goes far enough. That doesn't mean it is worthless. It got millions of people covered that weren't otherwise. It projected people with pre-existing conditions.

I'd like to roll back the medicare eligibility age over time until everyone is covered, while at the same time raising the payroll tax for medicare. That being said, healthcare will never be controlled without some massive lifestyle changes that drastically cut the US obesity rates.
It's almost like the answer requires some nuance rather than the black and white interpretation he always tries to give.

Yes the ACA was better than nothing and improved a lot of things, nobody except Frauddy/Wisco/Joe are arguing otherwise. But the whole not including a public mandate and negotiating against themselves when they had a super majority is what caused things to swing massively the other direction in 2010 election.
 
Re: The PPACA Thread Part VI: Tax Cuts Are More Important Than Your Health Care!

PS - this is a spot on quote today on topic...

“There are two types of Democrats. There are killers, and there are whiners. Unfortunately, we have too many of the latter and not enough of the former.”

— David Krone, Harry Reid’s former chief of staff, quoted by the New York Times.


There are two kinds of Democrats: liberals and snivelers. We sometimes have to settle for the latter when the situation absolutely requires it, but we should always be holding our nose, and always looking for an opportunity to stand on our principles and not just be the donor class' fallback b-tch.

Now remind us again how if we put real liberal positions out there that's just being a "Bern Out" or "naive" or "pie in the sky" or the other thousand excuses you come up with when we start talking about real change.

I'm sure you're a great guy in person, Rove, but on the plutes you're a sniveler. We'll settle for you when we must, but you are weak sauce and your ideas do nothing to stop the tanks of the right from relentlessly advancing. You are an appeaser.
 
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Re: The PPACA Thread Part VI: Tax Cuts Are More Important Than Your Health Care!

Rover,
Is it not true that the ACA is based on a conservative proposal out of the heritage foundation, first implemented by Mitt Romney?

.

No, it wasn't based on the Heritage proposal. However, it did include some concepts such as an individual mandate and the creating of purchasing pools. Not sure if that meant state exchanges as their proposal wasn't nearly as detailed. What Heritage did not have was 1) a way to pay for it (as in the higher taxes on the rich that the ACA has are in no way connected to Heritage). Also, it didn't have the Medicaid expansion, or keeping dependents on their parents insurance until age 26. By continuing to say that the ACA is in fact the Heritage proposal, you're playing into the hands of the conservatives by dampening liberal support with that exaggeration. Not sure why you want to do that...

EDIT: I also don't believe the 80% rule of premiums have to be used to pay for healthcare was part of the Heritage proposal, nor banning lifetime caps on benefits.

I'm not saying it is worthless, but it is far from a progressive plan (single payer) A more middle ground approach would look like the ACA with a public option.

I don't think the ACA goes far enough. That doesn't mean it is worthless. It got millions of people covered that weren't otherwise. It projected people with pre-existing conditions.

I'd like to roll back the medicare eligibility age over time until everyone is covered, while at the same time raising the payroll tax for medicare. That being said, healthcare will never be controlled without some massive lifestyle changes that drastically cut the US obesity rates.

What you're saying then is its not ideal. That's fine, but waaaayyyy too many lefties focus on the "no single payer" when in fact they didn't have the votes for that despite trying to do so (Lieberman in particular sunk that). Politically, it would be far better for us to correctly embrace the huge progressive victory that the ACA ended up being instead of lamenting the one progressive item that got left off (public option). That's what got us into trouble in 2010. If you don't have the votes, you can't include something. Why trix doesn't understand that is sorta beyond me. Should Obama have threated Lieberman with jail time?
 
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Re: The PPACA Thread Part VI: Tax Cuts Are More Important Than Your Health Care!

It's almost like the answer requires some nuance rather than the black and white interpretation he always tries to give.

Yes the ACA was better than nothing and improved a lot of things, nobody except Frauddy/Wisco/Joe are arguing otherwise. But the whole not including a public mandate and negotiating against themselves when they had a super majority is what caused things to swing massively the other direction in 2010 election.

Sure. If all the Dems voted for it even with the public option. They went through regular order too. The other party can't get anything through even without regular order and complete control without the 60 threshold.

You're supposed to be able to compromise.

That being said the PPACA is just another example of definitive proof the private sector is a failure. Why isn't there a provider in certain states? They don't want to do it cause it's not profitable enough. The 15% overhead they are allowed to charge under the ACA law isn't worth their time.
 
Re: The PPACA Thread Part VI: Tax Cuts Are More Important Than Your Health Care!

Boy, I'll say that that's true.

Now remind me again how if we put real liberal positions out there that's just being a "Bern Out" or "naive" or "pie in the sky" or the other thousand excuses you come up with when we start talking about real change.

I would say there are two kinds of Democrats: liberal's and snivelers. We sometimes have to settle for the latter when the situation absolutely requires it, but we should always be holding our nose, and always looking for an opportunity to stand on our principles and not just be the donor class' fallback b-tch.

Your positions can't be ridiculous however, as some of Bernie's are (ducks potential lightening bolt). Some of us evaluate the man's proposals at face value and take the ones that work, while some others view the guy as a deity descended from Heaven above who is not to be questioned. If we followed your lead we'd go the way of the Whigs.
 
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Re: The PPACA Thread Part VI: Tax Cuts Are More Important Than Your Health Care!

Sure. If all the Dems voted for it even with the public option. They went through regular order too. The other party can't get anything through even without regular order and complete control without the 60 threshold.

You're supposed to be able to compromise.

That being said the PPACA is just another example of definitive proof the private sector is a failure. Why isn't there a provider in certain states? They don't want to do it cause it's not profitable enough. The 15% overhead they are allowed to charge under the ACA law isn't worth their time.

Regular order should be 51. If the GOP's fascist blitzkrieg does one good thing it will be to kill the filibuster under all circumstances forever.
 
Re: The PPACA Thread Part VI: Tax Cuts Are More Important Than Your Health Care!

Regular order should be 51. If the GOP's fascist blitzkrieg does one good thing it will be to kill the filibuster under all circumstances forever.

:confused: Soooo....you want a situation where Ryan-Itch-Chump have even less roadblocks on implementing their agenda that they do already?


Okay then!
 
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