The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

[St. Clown]

Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

Oh, NOEZ. The law is too long we can't understand it in 3 FREAKING YEARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Give me a break.

They have to wait for the government to tell them how to enact the law into their products. Until (Health & Human Services?) tells them exactly what to do, they're just guessing. If the government drags its heels, there's not much the insurance companies can do no matter how many times their lawyers have read the law.

 

[Rover]

Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

Well, it would be awfully hard to price that factor if you don't really know who (or how many) will be signing up. The whole idea is to spread costs over a larger pool, remember? Tallying up the cost is only one piece of the equation - knowing the pool is the other. If you don't know which people/business will be signing up when, then it does make calculating the appropriate price difficult. Oh, and don't forget that they're not allowed to get it wrong, either - if they don't pay out 80%(?) of premiums in benefits, they get fined. It's definitely a ticklish business and I think you're underselling the complexity by a whole lot.

But for 85% of people being insured, the exchanges and the mandate to have insurance are irrelavent. Insurers have had to carry children up to age 26 already. Lifetime caps on care has already been eliminated. That's why what's happening in a lot of these cases is simply the insurer sneaking in a bigger increase and chalking it up to the ACA when it has nothing to do with that.

To truly account for those changes, your increases would have happened two years ago, not today. That's why I'm calling BS. Its like the Papa Johns guy whining about how he'd have to lay off half his staff, when it turns out his marginal cost is 10 more cents per pizza. If he's laying off staff, he's doing it for other reasons.

In the grand scheme of things, 7M people out of 300M (I'm excluding the 10M illegals who aren't part of the law) spread across the entire insurance industry is going to cause that much uncertainty? Ya know, I'm not sure I buy that. 2 years ago, sure when most of these provisions kicked in. Not at this point however.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

Rick Santorum has it all figured out.

“If we have a system where the government is going to be the principal provider of health care for the country, we’re done. Because then, you are dependent on the government for your life and your health…When Thatcher ran for prime minister she said — remember this, this is the Iron Lady — she said, ‘The British national health care system is safe in my hands.’ She wasn’t going to take on health care, because she knew once you have people getting free health care from the government, you can’t take it away from them. And the reason is because most people don’t get sick, and so free health care is just that, free health care, until you get sick. Then, if you get sick and you don’t get health care, you die and you don’t vote. It’s actually a pretty clever system. Take care of the people who can vote and people who can’t vote, get rid of them as quickly as possible by not giving them care so they can’t vote against you. That’s how it works.”

http://www.buzzfeed.com/andrewkaczynski/rick-santorum-health

 

[Tiggsy]

Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

Oh, NOEZ. The law is too long we can't understand it in 3 FREAKING YEARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Give me a break.

Again using your logic, 3 years to build a website and it can't work right? What gives?

I remember Pelosi actually said something to the effect "we need to pass the law so we can find out what's in it." So even she didn't get it. If you, or anyone else out there can understand it all, they should become a consultant to the insurance companies. Something tells me there are big bucks there if you know your stuff.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

Again using your logic, 3 years to build a website and it can't work right? What gives?

I remember Pelosi actually said something to the effect "we need to pass the law so we can find out what's in it." So even she didn't get it. If you, or anyone else out there can understand it all, they should become a consultant to the insurance companies. Something tells me there are big bucks there if you know your stuff.

I'm sure there is a lot of money there. Another one of my failings for sure.

 

[Rover]

Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

Again using your logic, 3 years to build a website and it can't work right? What gives?

A big screw up, no doubt. Again, who's saying it wasn't??? Now the difference between a big screw up and a catastrophic one (think Iraq war) is that the website is by and large fixed, and people are enrolling even if it might take an extra month or so to get up to the expected levels. Notice how completely silent Republicans have gone all of a sudden about the exchanges. There's a reason for that don't you think?

My guess about the website, much like many infrastructure projects you see, is that the people overseeing them (govt agencies) don't have the institutional knowledge to truly know if things are progressing properly. If they did, they would have been millionaires in the private sector instead. That makes a project of this magnitude tough to pull off. Its ironic that they'd managed to fix the issues so quickly once they became aware of them, but its a good lesson to learn. Unfortunately since these projects come along once a generation (really, the Bush prescription drug coverage act was the last one before this and Medicare before that) I think that knowledge gets lost as people move on.

Scooby, I had no idea Thatcher was on board with offing her constituents?!? No wonder the Tories had so much trouble since she left office. She killed off their base!!!

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

Scooby, I had no idea Thatcher was on board with offing her constituents?!? No wonder the Tories had so much trouble since she left office. She killed off their base!!!

Neither did I. And God (sorry, Ronald Reagan) loved her so.

 

[LynahFan]

Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

But for 85% of people being insured, the exchanges and the mandate to have insurance are irrelavent. Insurers have had to carry children up to age 26 already. Lifetime caps on care has already been eliminated. That's why what's happening in a lot of these cases is simply the insurer sneaking in a bigger increase and chalking it up to the ACA when it has nothing to do with that.

To truly account for those changes, your increases would have happened two years ago, not today. That's why I'm calling BS. Its like the Papa Johns guy whining about how he'd have to lay off half his staff, when it turns out his marginal cost is 10 more cents per pizza. If he's laying off staff, he's doing it for other reasons.

In the grand scheme of things, 7M people out of 300M (I'm excluding the 10M illegals who aren't part of the law) spread across the entire insurance industry is going to cause that much uncertainty? Ya know, I'm not sure I buy that. 2 years ago, sure when most of these provisions kicked in. Not at this point however.

So now you're saying that the individual mandate wasn't actually necessary? When will the bill to introduce that minor update be proposed, hmmm?

The scary part is that you genuinely seem to think it is really this simple.

 

[Rover]

Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

So now you're saying that the individual mandate wasn't actually necessary? When will the bill to introduce that minor update be proposed, hmmm?

.

Settle down there, Fishy.

The scary part is that you genuinely seem to think it is really this simple.

Simple? No. But lets get back to the original premise, which was that the ACA is driving up people's rates for next year. For most people, their rates should have reflected the new rules 2 years ago. Any insurer now putting in a rate hike and chalking it up to the ACA needs to be scrutizined with a big dose of suspicion with one possible exception - those in substandard plans. It is possible those people will have to pay more.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

So now you're saying that the individual mandate wasn't actually necessary? When will the bill to introduce that minor update be proposed, hmmm?

The scary part is that you genuinely seem to think it is really this simple.

Maybe if the private sector actually had solved the problem instead of bankrupting everyone all the time we wouldn't have had this issue??

But, no, the awesomeness of the private sector failed again. So, the government stepped in, and then the Republicans the guardians of the Private Sector started whining instead of working. Just like they did when the oil spilled in the Gulf. It's pretty much a theme for them at this point.

 

[St. Clown]

Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

Maybe if the private sector actually had solved the problem instead of bankrupting everyone all the time we wouldn't have had this issue??

But, no, the awesomeness of the private sector failed again. So, the government stepped in, and then the Republicans the guardians of the Private Sector started whining instead of working. Just like they did when the oil spilled in the Gulf. It's pretty much a theme for them at this point.

When was the last time that the health insurance market was dictated by the free market? Think long and hard on this one, Scooby because it's been many, many years. Decades even.

 

[Rover]

Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

Great article here in Business Insider:

http://www.businessinsider.com/heres-why-republicans-will-never-reform-health-care-2013-12

Spot on accurate and destroys some of the myths about an alternative to the ACA that we sometimes hear about....

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

When was the last time that the health insurance market was dictated by the free market? Think long and hard on this one, Scooby because it's been many, many years. Decades even.

True. However, whatever percentage was left is now gone. And the right has only itself to blame.

Great article here in Business Insider:

http://www.businessinsider.com/heres-why-republicans-will-never-reform-health-care-2013-12

Spot on accurate and destroys some of the myths about an alternative to the ACA that we sometimes hear about....

Basically what I said except coherent and in English. Nice article.

 

[Tiggsy]

Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

But, no, the awesomeness of the private sector failed again. So, the government stepped in, and then the Republicans the guardians of the Private Sector started whining instead of working. Just like they did when the oil spilled in the Gulf. It's pretty much a theme for them at this point.

You're right. The awesomeness of the government is on full display here which is obvious since things are running so smoothly with pricing under control and a 100% satisfaction rate.

 

[FreshFish]

Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

From Business Week:

U.S. District Judge Brian Cogan in Brooklyn today barred the government from enforcing the mandate [to provide their employees with contraception coverage] against Catholic Health Care System, Catholic Health Services of Long Island, Cardinal Spellman High School and Monsignor Farrell High School.

The groups “have demonstrated that the mandate, despite accommodation, compels them to perform acts that are contrary to their religion,” Cogan wrote. “And there can be no doubt that the coercive pressure here is substantial.”

 

[Rover]

Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

Interesting article. The gist of it is this: If Obamacare was destined to fail, would insurance companies be spending 500M bucks on a marketing campaign to sign people up???

http://www.theatlantic.com/business...making-a-500-million-bet-on-obamacare/282425/

You knucks better hope those fake websites you've tried to set up are working, because if 7M people do get insurance through exchanges plus at least that with expanded Medicare, who amongst you really thinks this will EVER get repealed, even if a Boner-Itch McConnell-Rand Paul triumvirate rules starting in Jan of 2017???

 

[joecct]

From Business Week:

What happened to Cardinal Hayes HS? Did it close or is it an order HS and not diocese school?

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

Interesting article. The gist of it is this: If Obamacare was destined to fail, would insurance companies be spending 500M bucks on a marketing campaign to sign people up???

http://www.theatlantic.com/business...making-a-500-million-bet-on-obamacare/282425/

You knucks better hope those fake websites you've tried to set up are working, because if 7M people do get insurance through exchanges plus at least that with expanded Medicare, who amongst you really thinks this will EVER get repealed, even if a Boner-Itch McConnell-Rand Paul triumvirate rules starting in Jan of 2017???

At least until people are priced out and just decide to pay the tax. Heck, that's what my generation is doing. Ever since this was enacted, I saw this as exactly what you wanted: a pathway to single payer with a backdoor tax.

 

[LynahFan]

Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

If you like your plan, you might be able to keep it, but not necessarily your doctor.

Gosh, who suspected that there would be unintended consequences? Oh yeah - lots of people (including Chief Justice Roberts).

 

[LynahFan]

Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

Interesting article. The gist of it is this: If Obamacare was destined to fail, would insurance companies be spending 500M bucks on a marketing campaign to sign people up???

http://www.theatlantic.com/business...making-a-500-million-bet-on-obamacare/282425/

You knucks better hope those fake websites you've tried to set up are working, because if 7M people do get insurance through exchanges plus at least that with expanded Medicare, who amongst you really thinks this will EVER get repealed, even if a Boner-Itch McConnell-Rand Paul triumvirate rules starting in Jan of 2017???

I have no idea how you're interpreting that as an "endorsement" of Obamacare. If there are 10 milllion "young invincibles" out there (there are probably more) that "ought to be" paying $1500 per year in premiums, that's $15 BILLION in free money - year after year - for those companies. Spending $500M once to get $15B in perpetuity is just a smart business decision out of self interest, nothing more.