The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

[St. Clown]

Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

So after Obamacare's required insurance purchasing begins, will people who skip purchasing insuarance still receive guaranteed service at an ER, regardless of ability to pay?

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

So after Obamacare's required insurance purchasing begins, will people who skip purchasing insuarance still receive guaranteed service at an ER, regardless of ability to pay?

Yes.

 

[St. Clown]

Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

Yes.

So in Wyoming, where they said that a person can expect to pay $1,237/month for premiums of the Silver Plan, if that person exceeds the subsidy cutoff by a single dollar, could skip the coverage, show up at an ER, make a solid case for not being able to pay, and instead pay the annual "tax" instead. The Bronze Plan's premiums in that state is still $758/month. The subsidy cutoff is $46K. How far does $46K get a lot of people these days? I don't know what the cost of living is in Wyoming, but with so few people around, so little industry to provide consumer goods nearby, it could either be very cheap or very expensive.

http://money.cnn.com/2013/09/25/news/economy/obamacare-premium-rates/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

 

[Rover]

So in Wyoming, where they said that a person can expect to pay $1,237/month for premiums of the Silver Plan, if that person exceeds the subsidy cutoff by a single dollar, could skip the coverage, show up at an ER, make a solid case for not being able to pay, and instead pay the annual "tax" instead. The Bronze Plan's premiums in that state is still $758/month. The subsidy cutoff is $46K. How far does $46K get a lot of people these days? I don't know what the cost of living is in Wyoming, but with so few people around, so little industry to provide consumer goods nearby, it could either be very cheap or very expensive.

http://money.cnn.com/2013/09/25/news/economy/obamacare-premium-rates/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

Clown, the problem is you're still going to have to pay the bill. Federal subsidies are 400% over the poverty line. Lets say that's 20K for an individual. If you make 80,001 dollars a year, and go to the ER, the hospital is going to send you a bill which you're going to have to pay. You may credit card it if you choose, but they aren't going to let it go. Why? You make 80K a year in Wyoming.

Now if you make 15K a year and can't pay, you can make a good case. However, at 15K a year under the new law you'd be getting expanded Medicaid anyway or fed subsidies so it wouldn't be an issue to have the insurance.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

Comparison of prices in 36 states. But it's still OK because the ends justify the means, right? http://online.wsj.com/article_email...project=EXCHANGES0924&articleTabs=interactive

 

[FreshFish]

Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

You've got a little over a week left.

You're the only person I know who, while watching a marathon, gets excited when his runner is in first place after 100 yards.

 

[joecct]

Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

Glowing article from the WaPo on PPACA

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...care-premiums-cost-depends-on-where-you-live/

Buried near the bottom is this:

The low rates are possible in part because insurance companies created special plans that include fewer in-network doctors and hospitals than many current plans.

 

[FreshFish]

Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

The political ineptitude of the Republicans, after the initial passage of the law, has been staggering. How stupid and myopic can a group of people be?

They really botched it.

Their first opportunity was when the waivers started in 2011. Something like 2,000 waivers were granted. If "the law" is supposed to have any meaning at all, then you seek legislative relief, you don't just pick and choose whom to favor and whom to deny based on arbitrary hidden criteria.

They really blew it big time when the business mandate was delayed a year. They could (should) have passed a bill doing exactly what the President wanted, and say "look, the law reads one way, you can't just change it because you feel like it, we have to pass a bill." Then what? The Democrats vote against the rule of law? The President veto what he says he wanted?

Now it is even worse. "Defund" PPACA is really stupid. Not one Republican voted for PPACA. The software glitches alone will be enough to infuriate people no end. They really want to end PPACA? Just step back out of the way and let it collapse under its own weight, and wait for 2014 elections and then use it as an issue.

The House Republicans in particular are daft to follow this Cruz line. The bigger issue for them should be to continue the sequester, perhaps make it bite a little more. "Defund" is worse than a freak show distraction, it could derail work on a far more important, substantive issue. Getting significant entitlement reform should be key. PPACA is just one of many entitlements. Get the bigger picture done first, let the other details follow later.

How inept and clueless can they be?

 

[Rover]

The political ineptitude of the Republicans, after the initial passage of the law, has been staggering. How stupid and myopic can a group of people be?

They really botched it.

Their first opportunity was when the waivers started in 2011. Something like 2,000 waivers were granted. If "the law" is supposed to have any meaning at all, then you seek legislative relief, you don't just pick and choose whom to favor and whom to deny based on arbitrary hidden criteria.

They really blew it big time when the business mandate was delayed a year. They could (should) have passed a bill doing exactly what the President wanted, and say "look, the law reads one way, you can't just change it because you feel like it, we have to pass a bill." Then what? The Democrats vote against the rule of law? The President veto what he says he wanted?

Now it is even worse. "Defund" PPACA is really stupid. Not one Republican voted for PPACA. The software glitches alone will be enough to infuriate people no end. They really want to end PPACA? Just step back out of the way and let it collapse under its own weight, and wait for 2014 elections and then use it as an issue.

The House Republicans in particular are daft to follow this Cruz line. The bigger issue for them should be to continue the sequester, perhaps make it bite a little more. "Defund" is worse than a freak show distraction, it could derail work on a far more important, substantive issue. Getting significant entitlement reform should be key. PPACA is just one of many entitlements. Get the bigger picture done first, let the other details follow later.

How inept and clueless can they be?

As much as you?

Fishy, its time for you to realize a sad truth. Your party and your ideology doesn't have clue about how to address any of the pressing issues facing the country. Worse, people see right through them. As everybody now knows, Obamacare will get more people to sign up than expected while costing less in premiums than expected. That's called "win-win" unless you're a knuckledragger, in which case you ought to be used to losing by now. Your anti-Obamacare efforts are doomed. Your ideology is a laughingstock. What else do you need to know?

 

[FreshFish]

Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

The federal government's new insurance exchanges for small businesses won't be ready on Oct. 1 to accept online applications for coverage, the Obama administration said Thursday

Nothing to see here, move along.

 

[DrDemento]

Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

As much as you?

Fishy, its time for you to realize a sad truth. Your party and your ideology doesn't have clue about how to address any of the pressing issues facing the country. Worse, people see right through them. As everybody now knows, Obamacare will get more people to sign up than expected while costing less in premiums than expected. That's called "win-win" unless you're a knuckledragger, in which case you ought to be used to losing by now. Your anti-Obamacare efforts are doomed. Your ideology is a laughingstock. What else do you need to know?

Rover-i would agree that it would be a win/win situation if you get more people enrolled and covered while lowering the cost of premiums-however, only if you are delivering either better medical care or certainly in the worst case scenario-at least the same level of care. It is that part that i am having a lot of trouble with.

 

[FreshFish]

Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

As much as you?

Fishy, its time for you to realize a sad truth. Your party and your ideology doesn't have clue about how to address any of the pressing issues facing the country. Worse, people see right through them. As everybody now knows, Obamacare will get more people to sign up than expected while costing less in premiums than expected. That's called "win-win" unless you're a knuckledragger, in which case you ought to be used to losing by now. Your anti-Obamacare efforts are doomed. Your ideology is a laughingstock. What else do you need to know?

It would be really nice if PPACA were to accomplish what it set out to do. There is a major difference between intentions and results. I would be quite pleased if PPACA were somehow to work. Just as I would be pleased if you ever discovered good manners. Being realistic, however, I expect neither to happen. I also expect the latter to happen sooner than the former.


You seem to lack the essential sense of distinction needed between being a rabid unquestioning cheerleader and a rational person who observes the evidence and accepts empirical results.


PS. you don't know anything about my ideology, obviously. My ideology would be quite effective in addressing each and everyone of the pressing issues facing our country. Unfortunately, neither the Dummycrats nor the Repugnicans have any interest.

 

[Rover]

Rover-i would agree that it would be a win/win situation if you get more people enrolled and covered while lowering the cost of premiums-however, only if you are delivering either better medical care or certainly in the worst case scenario-at least the same level of care. It is that part that i am having a lot of trouble with.

No doubt. Ultimately the system will have to prove itself. For the parts that have been implemented (80% of premiums have to go to care, kids can stay on parents insurance up to 26 years old, no lifetime caps, etc) seem to be working well. I'm not aware of any problems thus far.

So, if we get past the rhetoric and look at the evidence, we've seen an improvement, and all the while the growth of health care spending has come down. Beyond that we'll have to see but the concept of more people having more bargaining power seems logical in bringing down the costs.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

It would be really nice if PPACA were to accomplish what it set out to do. There is a major difference between intentions and results. I would be quite pleased if PPACA were somehow to work. Just as I would be pleased if you ever discovered good manners. Being realistic, however, I expect neither to happen. I also expect the latter to happen sooner than the former.


You seem to lack the essential sense of distinction needed between being a rabid unquestioning cheerleader and a rational person who observes the evidence and accepts empirical results.


PS. you don't know anything about my ideology, obviously. My ideology would be quite effective in addressing each and everyone of the pressing issues facing our country. Unfortunately, neither the Dummycrats nor the Repugnicans have any interest.

How could it possibly accomplish anything??

You have over half the country and half the government who passed the ****ing law spending 100% of their time whining and crying about it. It's doomed. Always has been.

 

[unofan]

you don't know anything about my ideology, obviously. My ideology would be quite effective in addressing each and everyone of the pressing issues facing our country.

Based on your postings on this site, your ideology is that of a Neo-con. If that's wrong, then you have only yourself to blame for giving off that impression by posting link after link to the NY Post and Wall Street Journal editorial pages, with some random other conservative sites thrown in. As we've all seen from recent history, that ideology would not come close to addressing the pressing issues facing our country.

 

[Rover]

Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

Pretty even take from CNBC siting actual business owners and not craven snivelling pundits.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101068005

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

Well this is comical.

Apparently Kentucky WANTS and NEEDS Obamacare.

Knock me over with a feather.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/27/o...smid=fb-nytimes&WT.z_sma=OP_MSN_20130927&_r=0

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

Here's the spin from Tea Party Patriots:

Senate Votes to Fund Obamacare
25 Republicans just voted to fund Obamacare.

The cloture vote to end debate on the House passed Continuing Resolution happened just moments ago. 25 Republicans voted in favor of ending debate, even though they knew that it would result in Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid attaching an amendment to that would allow funding for Obamacare. These 25 Republicans were relying on 5 Democrats to switch over on final passage, rather than relying on themselves to draw a line in the sand and demand a 60 vote threshold to fund Obamacare.

They will try to tell you that on final passage of the bill they voted against Obamacare, but the simple truth is - their vote for cloture was a vote to fund Obamacare. Simple logic would have told them that if they voted on cloture and allowed Harry Reid to strip the defunding measure out of the bill that it would easily pass on a 51 vote simple majority.

Senators Ted Cruz and Mike Lee along with a few others have been leading the charge for the American people for the past 6 weeks to stop Obamacare. They have worked tirelessly to stand up for the American people and they have proven that the majority of the "ruling elite" Republicans are not listening to their constituents.

Special thanks to the following for listening to the American People: Crapo (R-ID), Cruz (R-TX), Enzi (R-WY), Fischer (R-NE), Grassley (R-IA), Heller (R-NV), Inhofe (R-OK), Lee (R-UT), Moran (R-KS), Paul (R-KY), Portman (R-OH), Risch (R-ID), Roberts (R-KS), Rubio (R-FL), Scott (R-SC), Sessions (R-AL), Shelby (R-AL), Toomey (R-PA), Vitter (R-LA).

 

[Rover]

Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

Great article destroying conservative lies about healthcare:

http://www.vanityfair.com/online/eichenwald/2013/09/republicans-know-obamacare-will-work

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The PPACA - Implementation Phase I

Great article destroying conservative lies about healthcare:

http://www.vanityfair.com/online/eichenwald/2013/09/republicans-know-obamacare-will-work

Senator Ron Johnson from Wisconsin, who I saw on Morning Joe this morning, should read that article. He made sure to tell everyone this morning that Obamacare was the Apocalypse.