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The Power of the SCOTUS Part VII - The Bedrock of the Republic!
- Thread starter joecct
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Re: The Power of the SCOTUS Part VII - The Bedrock of the Republic!
No, I wouldn't say so in retort, though there is a vein of truth to it. But I honestly believe that people who are pro-choice/abortion think that they are doing what is right for the most part, but that they are just sadly misguided and have some values mixed up. I'd also guess that your exposure to the pro-life movement is mostly via the media. I'd encourage you to visit a local crisis pregnancy center or other such places and you'll get a whole different flavor. My wife and I have volunteered at such places and they are filled with people who love those who are in difficult spots and even if they decide to have an abortion, they are welcomed with open loving arms. Many of the women who volunteer at such places have had abortions themselves and know first hand the struggles pre and post abortion. But that kind of stuff never gets a New York Times or CBS News or such cover story.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: The Power of the SCOTUS Part VII - The Bedrock of the Republic!
Well, by the same token you're only getting the side of people who have changed their minds and become anti-choice. I would likewise encourage you to expose yourself (ahem) to the people who volunteer in clinics and see the women who come in, the challenges they face, the circumstances, and often the incredible levels of hatred and political opportunism they have to fight their way past, either physically at the clinic itself or psychologically in their lives. You would probably lose some of the cartoonish ideas you have about what PP does, why it does it, and who the women involved are.
Well, by the same token you're only getting the side of people who have changed their minds and become anti-choice. I would likewise encourage you to expose yourself (ahem) to the people who volunteer in clinics and see the women who come in, the challenges they face, the circumstances, and often the incredible levels of hatred and political opportunism they have to fight their way past, either physically at the clinic itself or psychologically in their lives. You would probably lose some of the cartoonish ideas you have about what PP does, why it does it, and who the women involved are.
FlagDUDE08
Banned
Re: The Power of the SCOTUS Part VII - The Bedrock of the Republic!
You'd be surprised as to how not pro-life some pro-lifers are. Wait, you probably wouldn't...
After all, let's take a look at the people that kill abortion doctors, call for taking Planned Parenthood workers "out back", amongst other things. Reciprocation isn't in the vocabulary of most.
You'd be surprised as to how not pro-life some pro-lifers are. Wait, you probably wouldn't...
After all, let's take a look at the people that kill abortion doctors, call for taking Planned Parenthood workers "out back", amongst other things. Reciprocation isn't in the vocabulary of most.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: The Power of the SCOTUS Part VII - The Bedrock of the Republic!
To be fair, I think that's only the absolute lunatic fringe -- maybe a few thousand in the whole country.
But the scary thing about the moral absolutism underlying the pro-life position is it's a royal road to the idea of using violence to achieve your ends. "Extremism in the defense of virtue is no vice." That's how you get clinic bombers, or those Jewish settlers who just oven roasted a Palestinian child because יהוה said to.
To be fair, I think that's only the absolute lunatic fringe -- maybe a few thousand in the whole country.
But the scary thing about the moral absolutism underlying the pro-life position is it's a royal road to the idea of using violence to achieve your ends. "Extremism in the defense of virtue is no vice." That's how you get clinic bombers, or those Jewish settlers who just oven roasted a Palestinian child because יהוה said to.
FlagDUDE08
Banned
Re: The Power of the SCOTUS Part VII - The Bedrock of the Republic!
It's certainly the only way to get what you want these days.
And I don't think it's as loony as you think it is. There are a lot of people out there, regardless of affiliation, that have some measure or even thought of intolerance, even if it only pertains to one or two subjects. Heck, every single person that has placed me on ignore is guilty of this, and I'll even admit I'm guilty of this as well, given I have people on my ignore list.
I'll give you that only the fringe you described would ever act on the most serious of issues, such as killing those that aren't pro-life, or divine purification through torture.
It's certainly the only way to get what you want these days.
And I don't think it's as loony as you think it is. There are a lot of people out there, regardless of affiliation, that have some measure or even thought of intolerance, even if it only pertains to one or two subjects. Heck, every single person that has placed me on ignore is guilty of this, and I'll even admit I'm guilty of this as well, given I have people on my ignore list.
I'll give you that only the fringe you described would ever act on the most serious of issues, such as killing those that aren't pro-life, or divine purification through torture.
Re: The Power of the SCOTUS Part VII - The Bedrock of the Republic!
You assume I don't know such people. You would be wrong. That's why I said I think they mean well, but are just misguided.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: The Power of the SCOTUS Part VII - The Bedrock of the Republic!
Which is how I would characterize the vast majority of pro-lifers.
I guess that is as close as people are going to get to understanding one another. It is probably too much to ask our monkey brains to wrap themselves around the concept of "this moral constraint is necessary for me because of my experiences, but it does not necessarily hold for you as you are a different person with different experiences."
In any case, it beats viewing the "other" as a monster or a fool.
Which is how I would characterize the vast majority of pro-lifers.
I guess that is as close as people are going to get to understanding one another. It is probably too much to ask our monkey brains to wrap themselves around the concept of "this moral constraint is necessary for me because of my experiences, but it does not necessarily hold for you as you are a different person with different experiences."
In any case, it beats viewing the "other" as a monster or a fool.
Re: The Power of the SCOTUS Part VII - The Bedrock of the Republic!
It's an enormous step to understand that the other person, who you may totally disagree with on something important, generally means well, as of course you do. If that kind of thinking could seep into our national consciousness and political arenas, things would look drastically different. Mostly things are going the opposite direction though, as the other side is put in the worst light possible.
I read an article recently where this concept is applied to marriages, where one person did something that seemed hurtful to the other, but if the other recognizes that the first person meant well, it makes for a very different scenario than if one gives in to the temptation to think that they purposely were hurtful.
It's an enormous step to understand that the other person, who you may totally disagree with on something important, generally means well, as of course you do. If that kind of thinking could seep into our national consciousness and political arenas, things would look drastically different. Mostly things are going the opposite direction though, as the other side is put in the worst light possible.
I read an article recently where this concept is applied to marriages, where one person did something that seemed hurtful to the other, but if the other recognizes that the first person meant well, it makes for a very different scenario than if one gives in to the temptation to think that they purposely were hurtful.
Re: The Power of the SCOTUS Part VII - The Bedrock of the Republic!
And that is a very healthy and constructive way to look at it. I suggest that there is a half-step further which would improve things even more. It seems the only way to minimize the effect of confirmation bias we all experience is to loosen our own grip on the belief that we must be right in our conclusions. It is one thing to believe the other is wrong but to acknowledge that he or she means well. It is another more difficult thing to acknowledge that the other person might be right and I wrong. That is closer to freeing us from our preexisting bias than allowing that the other person was wrong but meant well, which could be closer to patronizing and provide us with a more comfortable way to confirm our own biases.
By saying that, I do not intend to criticize your point, Bob--it is a good one and worthy of our efforts.
And that is a very healthy and constructive way to look at it. I suggest that there is a half-step further which would improve things even more. It seems the only way to minimize the effect of confirmation bias we all experience is to loosen our own grip on the belief that we must be right in our conclusions. It is one thing to believe the other is wrong but to acknowledge that he or she means well. It is another more difficult thing to acknowledge that the other person might be right and I wrong. That is closer to freeing us from our preexisting bias than allowing that the other person was wrong but meant well, which could be closer to patronizing and provide us with a more comfortable way to confirm our own biases.
By saying that, I do not intend to criticize your point, Bob--it is a good one and worthy of our efforts.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: The Power of the SCOTUS Part VII - The Bedrock of the Republic!
I agree with and endorse this view completely.
I agree with and endorse this view completely.
MissThundercat
Are the cis okay?
Re: The Power of the SCOTUS Part VII - The Bedrock of the Republic!
Despite court order, Kentucky clerk Kim Davis still refuses to issue marriage licenses to gay couples
I don't see this ending well for her.
Despite court order, Kentucky clerk Kim Davis still refuses to issue marriage licenses to gay couples
I don't see this ending well for her.
FadeToBlack&Gold
Microlot Marxist
Re: The Power of the SCOTUS Part VII - The Bedrock of the Republic!
Martyr for a lost and misguided cause. It's what she wants, and unfortunately it's what she will get because the show must go on.
Martyr for a lost and misguided cause. It's what she wants, and unfortunately it's what she will get because the show must go on.
FadeToBlack&Gold
Microlot Marxist
Re: The Power of the SCOTUS Part VII - The Bedrock of the Republic!
It would really be best if she would quietly resign and go away, but she'll just scream to the press that she was persecuted. It's obvious that she's dying to get her 15 minutes for this fruitless cause.
EDIT: Just to add, if you need confirmation on how incredibly self-righteous I think this woman and her congregation are:
When your church attendance has to be pointed out to the media as evidence of your convictions, then IMO, you're a sanctimonious putz.
It would really be best if she would quietly resign and go away, but she'll just scream to the press that she was persecuted. It's obvious that she's dying to get her 15 minutes for this fruitless cause.
EDIT: Just to add, if you need confirmation on how incredibly self-righteous I think this woman and her congregation are:
When your church attendance has to be pointed out to the media as evidence of your convictions, then IMO, you're a sanctimonious putz.
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St. Clown
Ideas Posted are Likely Not My Own
Re: The Power of the SCOTUS Part VII - The Bedrock of the Republic!
From another article on this same story:
From another article on this same story:
Yeah, I can't imagine why he wouldn't want to to say one way or the other.
Re: The Power of the SCOTUS Part VII - The Bedrock of the Republic!
Probably can't be held in contempt until she refuses to obey a court order addressed specifically to her. But if she can be, I hope she is.
She certainly should lose her job immediately. It would be nice if the court could suspend that county office's authority to marry anybody as long as she refuses to marry gays. Put her between God's chosen and something God's chosen want.
Probably can't be held in contempt until she refuses to obey a court order addressed specifically to her. But if she can be, I hope she is.
She certainly should lose her job immediately. It would be nice if the court could suspend that county office's authority to marry anybody as long as she refuses to marry gays. Put her between God's chosen and something God's chosen want.
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Re: The Power of the SCOTUS Part VII - The Bedrock of the Republic!
I was a bit confused for a minute, I skimmed these comments really quickly and I thought I was reading about Hillary Clinton and her email server for a second....
I was a bit confused for a minute, I skimmed these comments really quickly and I thought I was reading about Hillary Clinton and her email server for a second....
Re: The Power of the SCOTUS Part VII - The Bedrock of the Republic!
I like a good stretch in the morning.
I like a good stretch in the morning.
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