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The Power of the SCOTUS IV: Gays, Guns, and Immigrants, OH MY!

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Re: The Power of the SCOTUS IV: Gays, Guns, and Immigrants, OH MY!

Why is it when a Rupublican makes money (Romney, Bush II, etc) its always because they're brilliant business men, but when a Democrat does (Clinton, Gore) it can't possibly be on the up and up? It proves what Fishy is saying, only in reverse as its the conservatives causing the problem, no?
 
Re: The Power of the SCOTUS IV: Gays, Guns, and Immigrants, OH MY!

Are you aware of how much money Gore has made from the green movement? What's that meme, "TEXA$" is the answer.
Amonst other things. Or his energy-guzzling mansion that uses more electricity in a month than most American homes use in a year. Oh, but with his green movement riches he can plant trees in Central America or something to offset his energy-guzzling lifestyle. But, he means good inherently, while his opponents mean evil inherently.
 
Re: The Power of the SCOTUS IV: Gays, Guns, and Immigrants, OH MY!

Umm...I did say there is truth in what FF said.



I have yet to see many say solar is horrible. So if someone promotes something that's good for society while making money at it...is that really bad? I'm fine with a win/win...as I kind of thought that was what United States capitalism was founded on. Does everyone with opposing political views have to be Mother Theresa? Halliburton is not.
He's not making money through capitalism, he's making it through corporatism - government sponsorship of favored companies. He invested heavily into the green movement, used his influence within government to move regulations into the favor of where his investments already are, and got exceedingly rich off of shaping American laws. Yes, you see companies do this all the time, but that doesn't make it right. And it's especially wrong when a principal investor/owner is a former US VP.

I don't expect everyone to be pure of heart, we're all people and thus flawed. At the same time, people hold up Gore as some great paragon of the green, yet I bet most of his motivation comes to his pocketbook and not some earth friendly nature he tries to play up to the public.

I've never been one to rally around Cheney or Bush. They drove the likes of me from voting GOP in elections.
 
Re: The Power of the SCOTUS IV: Gays, Guns, and Immigrants, OH MY!

He's not making money through capitalism, he's making it through corporatism - government sponsorship of favored companies. He invested heavily into the green movement, used his influence within government to move regulations into the favor of where his investments already are, and got exceedingly rich off of shaping American laws. Yes, you see companies do this all the time, but that doesn't make it right. And it's especially wrong when a principal investor/owner is a former US VP.

I don't expect everyone to be pure of heart, we're all people and thus flawed. At the same time, people hold up Gore as some great paragon of the green, yet I bet most of his motivation comes to his pocketbook and not some earth friendly nature he tries to play up to the public.

I've never been one to rally around Cheney or Bush. They drove the likes of me from voting GOP in elections.

The majority of Gore's work is in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generation_Investment_Management which doesn't seem to be strictly sucking from the American taxpayer. The issue is that the bar is set so high when someone tries to promote something positive on the left (ala Gore)...and there are very low standards for anyone on the right.

You and conservatives choose to lash out at Gore...but basically be silent on Rumsfeld and Bachmann (the worst you can say is 'never been one to rally around'). Based on our posts, we do seem to have a difference of opinion as to who is worse for the country here.

So no...I have absolutely no idea where conservatives are coming from.
 
Re: The Power of the SCOTUS IV: Gays, Guns, and Immigrants, OH MY!

You and conservatives choose to lash out at Gore...but basically be silent on Rumsfeld and Bachmann (the worst you can say is 'never been one to rally around'). Based on our posts, we do seem to have a difference of opinion as to who is worse for the country here.

So no...I have absolutely no idea where conservatives are coming from.
The only reason I've ever liked Bachmann is at those times where she draws ire from people on the left. Otherwise she's just a small time Rep from single district, trying to push her version of god on everyone who'll listen.

Has Rumsfeld done anything to land in the news since leaving his Sec. of Defense job?
 
Re: The Power of the SCOTUS IV: Gays, Guns, and Immigrants, OH MY!

It's always a sign that you don't have much of a leg to stand on when your response is that a person/situation isn't as bad as certain other persons/situations.
 
Re: The Power of the SCOTUS IV: Gays, Guns, and Immigrants, OH MY!

He's not making money through capitalism, he's making it through corporatism - government sponsorship of favored companies. He invested heavily into the green movement, used his influence within government to move regulations into the favor of where his investments already are, and got exceedingly rich off of shaping American laws. Yes, you see companies do this all the time, but that doesn't make it right. And it's especially wrong when a principal investor/owner is a former US VP.

I don't expect everyone to be pure of heart, we're all people and thus flawed. At the same time, people hold up Gore as some great paragon of the green, yet I bet most of his motivation comes to his pocketbook and not some earth friendly nature he tries to play up to the public.

I've never been one to rally around Cheney or Bush. They drove the likes of me from voting GOP in elections.


A couple of things here:

1) I'm not aware of Gore "using his influence to change govt regulations". How exactly is he accomplishing this, and is there any evidence?

2) What enviros and anti-enviros tend to miss is that profitibility is a huge driver in getting the planet cleaned up. People don't want to be taxed for the hell of it, and if they don't understand the program (carbon taxes for example) they won't get on board.

However, if you prove to the public that they're better off subsidizing domestic energy instead of sending US dollars overseas to Middle Eastern dictators, then it starts to make a lot more sense. Similarly if you make the argument that the tradeoff isn't always between natural gas and solar, its between natural gas and coal which makes it no longer feasible to run a coal plant since gas is cheaper, more people will come on board with fracking for example.

So if Gore is making money from environmental investments, more power to him. Instead of blasting the guy you should be thanking him, and I won't even get into how you knucks gave us George W Bush instead of him, the worst President in US history not named "Nixon". ;)
 
Re: The Power of the SCOTUS IV: Gays, Guns, and Immigrants, OH MY!

Has Rumsfeld done anything to land in the news since leaving his Sec. of Defense job?

As one of the most influential conservatives of last decade, is the Rumsfeld approach to international relations irrelevant because personally he's not in Washington?

The only reason I've ever liked Bachmann is at those times where she draws ire from people on the left.

Sometimes you're a really smart guy. And other times, you can't have an intellectual discussion. It looks like we're done here.

It's always a sign that you don't have much of a leg to stand on when your response is that a person/situation isn't as bad as certain other persons/situations.

You saying Gore is bad and I saying Rush is bad in isolation gets us nowhere. The original exercise FF posed was a moral comparison.

FF and I may have a different point of view, but at least he/she can manage a dialog on these types of topics.
 
Re: The Power of the SCOTUS IV: Gays, Guns, and Immigrants, OH MY!

I don't see the comparison. Did Rumsfeld become a billionaire off defense contracts he directed toward defense companies he owned or something? Same with Bachmann.

If Gore cared about being a spokesman for climate change, he wouldn't have profiteered so massively off the policies he pushed for. People do notice. At least some do.
 
Re: The Power of the SCOTUS IV: Gays, Guns, and Immigrants, OH MY!

I don't see the comparison. Did Rumsfeld become a billionaire off defense contracts he directed toward defense companies he owned or something? Same with Bachmann.

If Gore cared about being a spokesman for climate change, he wouldn't have profiteered so massively off the policies he pushed for. People do notice. At least some do.

Again, what's the problem? If the guy can show a way to be an environmental advocate and make money off his investments, isn't he walking the walk as well as talking the talk? Is it too much to ask that we see some evidence that he's done something wrong? If he's made money investing in companies, or as a paid spokesman, what is your issue with any of that? I wasn't aware environmentalists were supposed to mimic Mother Theresa.
 
Re: The Power of the SCOTUS IV: Gays, Guns, and Immigrants, OH MY!

Again, what's the problem? If the guy can show a way to be an environmental advocate and make money off his investments, isn't he walking the walk as well as talking the talk? Is it too much to ask that we see some evidence that he's done something wrong? If he's made money investing in companies, or as a paid spokesman, what is your issue with any of that? I wasn't aware environmentalists were supposed to mimic Mother Theresa.
Oh, come now. I was expecting the usual line of how he's done so much more good than bad that we should look the other way on his investments, energy guzzling mansion, etc. That's a slightly better argument than to pretend away his profiteering. But hey, if he got a Nobel Peace prize, who should question him I guess. Just like Yasser Arafat.
 
Re: The Power of the SCOTUS IV: Gays, Guns, and Immigrants, OH MY!

Once we had a society in which certain things were more important than politics. It's a good topic for a thread about the law because for several hundred years, all "sides" agreed that there were several "rules" that were so important, both sides needed to follow them, so that there was sufficient trust to go around to allow people to negotiate through periods of intense disagreement. Even if one "side" had control of the White House and both branches of Congress, there were still "rules" that mattered so much, they'd be observed, because in the long run it was more important for all of us to have a framework within which we could get along than it was for one side totally to dominate the other.

I don't think I'm alone in being concerned about whether that is still the case or not in the past five years. I was very surprised to find some validation from a totally unexpected source.

Someone did a psychological study that compared how conservatives and progressives viewed each other and the world. In an interesting twist, each side was asked to explain the other side's point of view.

To oversimplify:
-- conservatives could explain the progressive point of view. They merely disagreed with it. To them, progressives meant well and were merely misguided or unable to think things through clearly. They were not inherently bad, just naive.
-- progressives were not able to explain the conservative point of view. Lacking the ability to understand it, their fallback explanation was that conservatives "must have" something inherently wrong with their moral character. There was not merely a disagreement about good or bad ideas, there was a fundamental difference between good and evil itself.

Yeah....if by oversimplify you mean make $#!7 up. I'll take the authors words for it over yours, and I think their opinion was "Results indicate that people at all points on the political spectrum are at least intuitively aware of the actual differences in moral concerns between liberals and conservatives". I have no idea where you came up with your complete crap simplification, since it is no where close to what was written. To actually oversimplify what was written rather than make crap up, liberals tend to exaggerate their perceptions of both conservatives and liberals more than conservatives do. I guess another way to oversimplify would be to say that FF was just being his usual BS FF self.
 
Re: The Power of the SCOTUS IV: Gays, Guns, and Immigrants, OH MY!

Again, what's the problem? If the guy can show a way to be an environmental advocate and make money off his investments, isn't he walking the walk as well as talking the talk? Is it too much to ask that we see some evidence that he's done something wrong? If he's made money investing in companies, or as a paid spokesman, what is your issue with any of that? I wasn't aware environmentalists were supposed to mimic Mother Theresa.

Gore's problem is that he didn't take the country to war resulting in thousands of American deaths and burn trillions. If so, he might have gotten Bob's acceptance.

Here's the other hero in question...Michelle Bachmann's latest thoughts: “It isn’t the conservative Republican immigration policy that immigrants don’t like, it’s our stance on fiscal conservatism, the Constitution, patriotism, the fact that we believe in limited government and personal responsibility.”

Can't we agree that folks that put her as a front runner for president are not from this reality?
 
Re: The Power of the SCOTUS IV: Gays, Guns, and Immigrants, OH MY!

Same old blinders on Gore. If the guy cared a hoot about the environment, he'd walk the walk and not just talk the talk.
 
Re: The Power of the SCOTUS IV: Gays, Guns, and Immigrants, OH MY!

Oh, come now. I was expecting the usual line of how he's done so much more good than bad that we should look the other way on his investments, energy guzzling mansion, etc. That's a slightly better argument than to pretend away his profiteering. But hey, if he got a Nobel Peace prize, who should question him I guess. Just like Yasser Arafat.

Putting aside the irrelevance of his Nobel Prize or Yasser Arafat (haven't heard that name in awhile), I'm asking a simple question. I don't follow Gore much and only saw his movie because they showed it here at work. How exactly is he profiteering? My personal understanding of Al Gore's wealth is that it comes from 1) selling Current TV to Al Jazeera, and 2) stock options given to him from serving on corporate boards most noteably Apple who's value has skyrocketed over that time. Neither one of these sources of wealth is detrimental to the environment as best that I can tell.

If you'd got some information for us Bob, all I'm asking is that you throw it out there instead of some vague references to possible wrong doing. Gore isn't running for anything anymore so there's no need to slander the guy to get a head start on the next election. Apparently you haven't checked your mail lately, because you're supposed to be focusing on Hillary! ;)
 
Re: The Power of the SCOTUS IV: Gays, Guns, and Immigrants, OH MY!

Putting aside the irrelevance of his Nobel Prize or Yasser Arafat (haven't heard that name in awhile), I'm asking a simple question. I don't follow Gore much and only saw his movie because they showed it here at work. How exactly is he profiteering? My personal understanding of Al Gore's wealth is that it comes from 1) selling Current TV to Al Jazeera, and 2) stock options given to him from serving on corporate boards most noteably Apple who's value has skyrocketed over that time. Neither one of these sources of wealth is detrimental to the environment as best that I can tell.

If you'd got some information for us Bob, all I'm asking is that you throw it out there instead of some vague references to possible wrong doing. Gore isn't running for anything anymore so there's no need to slander the guy to get a head start on the next election. Apparently you haven't checked your mail lately, because you're supposed to be focusing on Hillary! ;)
Here's an obviously biased piece from the Canada Free Press in 2007, but it does put together some facts rather succinctly. It excoriat both Gore and Strong as devils. The point still remains, though, that Gore is using his name to get money from the federal government to fund his projects.

http://www.canadafreepress.com/2007/cover031307.htm

Creators of carbon credit scheme cashing in on it

The two cherub like choirboys singing loudest in the Holier Than Thou Global Warming Cathedral are Maurice Strong and Al Gore.

This duo has done more than anyone else to advance the alarmism of man-made global warming.

With little media monitoring, both Strong and Gore are cashing in on the lucrative cottage industry known as man-made global warming.

Strong is on the board of directors of the Chicago Climate Exchange, Wikipedia-described as "the world's first and North America's only legally binding greenhouse gas emission registry reduction system for emission sources and offset projects in North America and Brazil."

Gore buys his carbon off-sets from himself--the Generation Investment Management LLP, "an independent, private, owner-managed partnership established in 2004 with offices in London and Washington, D.C." of which he is both chairman and founding partner.

To hear the saving-the-earth singsong of this dynamic duo, even the feather light petals of cherry blossoms in Washington leave a bigger carbon footprint.

It's a strange global warming partnership that Strong and Gore have, but it's one that's working.

Strong is the silent partner, a man whose name often draws a blank in the Washington cocktail circuit. Even though a former Secretary General of the 1992 United Nations Conference on Environment and Development (the much hyped Rio Earth Summit) and Under-Secretary General of the United Nations in the days of a beleaguered Kofi Annan, the Canadian born Strong is little known in the Unites States. That's because he spends most of his time in China where he works to make the communist country the world's next superpower. The nondescript Strong, nonetheless is big cheese in the world of climate change, and is one of the main architects of the coming-your-way-soon Kyoto Protocol.

Gore is the glitzy, media approved front man in the partnership, the flashing neon lights on the global stage warning the masses of the end of Earth, as we know it, and Hollywood's poster boy for greening the silver screen.

...

"Gore left a few facts out of his speech that day. First, the firm was run by Strong and a group of Gore intimates, including Peter Knight, the firm's registered lobbyist, and Gore's former top Senate aide," wrote EIR.

"Second, the company had received more than $25 million in U.S. Department of energy (DOE) research and development grants, but had failed to prove that the technology worked on a commercial scale. The company would go on to receive another $8 million in federal taxpayers' cash, at that point, its only source of revenue.

And then there's this article from the Telegraph. It tells of the former VP investing in a company that just happened to get a huge government grant shortly after his investment firm's involvment. Hmm... http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/en...d-become-worlds-first-carbon-billionaire.html

Last year Mr Gore's venture capital firm loaned a small California firm $75m to develop energy-saving technology.

The company, Silver Spring Networks, produces hardware and software to make the electricity grid more efficient.

The deal appeared to pay off in a big way last week, when the Energy Department announced $3.4 billion in smart grid grants, the New York Times reports. Of the total, more than $560 million went to utilities with which Silver Spring has contracts.

The move means that venture capital company Kleiner Perkins and its partners, including Mr Gore, could recoup their investment many times over in coming years.

It's remarkable how shortly after his investment firms get involved with a company there just happens to be a federal grant or loan that follows. It's all coincidence, I'm sure.

If you ever want to search "Al Gore carbon credits" you'll find plenty more examples of shady business/government dealings.
 
Re: The Power of the SCOTUS IV: Gays, Guns, and Immigrants, OH MY!

Gore only cares about Gore. Same as every single other individual in Washington. They're all a bunch of crooks. The Republicans rob us through war and the Democrats rob us through entitlements. Either way we're all doomed.
 
Re: The Power of the SCOTUS IV: Gays, Guns, and Immigrants, OH MY!

Thanks for posting the info. As best I can tell this is all speculation out of a bunch of righties who should love Gore for blowing a winnable election in 2000.

But to take up a couple of points, I ask again how does Gore influence laws when he's been out of office for a decade and a half, and from the first article written in 2007, he'd be dealing with an EPA or Energy Department run by the guy who beat him for the Presidency!?!?

Next, I fail to see how him investing in promising companies is any different than Dick Cheney investing in Halliburton. If you know an industry, aren't you supposed to invest in it? Isn't that the point? :confused:

What Gore probably has going on is a relatively unique understanding of what kinds of companies attract govt grants, as in what technologies the govt is interested in exploring. Its sorta like how that NBA ref who was throwing games could gamble on basketball games he wasn't reffing based on insider knowledge of how his collegues ref against certain teams they don't like. Or how Wall St insiders are still able to beat average stock market returns.
 
Re: The Power of the SCOTUS IV: Gays, Guns, and Immigrants, OH MY!

You're right. Only people in office can influence government policies and spending. Everyone else is just outside the window staring in. Nobody Gore has connections to would listen to him anymore once he's not vice president.
 
Re: The Power of the SCOTUS IV: Gays, Guns, and Immigrants, OH MY!

You're right. Only people in office can influence government policies and spending. Everyone else is just outside the window staring in. Nobody Gore has connections to would listen to him anymore once he's not vice president.

I find it pretty hard to believe anybody in the Bush administration was listening to him Bob. If you feel differently that's fine, but the Bush-Cheney crowd didn't strike me as the most magnanimous people in the world, and I doubt lining Gore's pockets was too high on their list of priorities.

Again, I like a good conspiracy theory as much as the next guy, but it helps if they're grounded in some sort of reality. Bush Energy Dept or EPA lining up with Al Gore???? Yeah....just having a little trouble believing that one.
 
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