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The Power of the SCOTUS IV: Gays, Guns, and Immigrants, OH MY!

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Re: The Power of the SCOTUS IV: Gays, Guns, and Immigrants, OH MY!

Burd, when writing that, I *did* get the distinct feeling that I could have said it much quicker if my D were of the Juris variety. :)

Sometimes things are better said in plain English, as you did.
 
Re: The Power of the SCOTUS IV: Gays, Guns, and Immigrants, OH MY!

I don't get too worked up over events that thin the herd by 10-20 people per year. They are statistically meaningless numbers in a country with 300 million people.

Somber remembrances mark anniversary of Sandy Hook shooting

By Edith Honan

NEW YORK Sat Dec 14, 2013 7:09am EST

(Reuters) - One year later, the mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut, still evokes raw emotion and sadness. On Saturday, a day after another school shooting, this time at a Colorado high school where two students were wounded, the United States will pause to remember the tragedy and revisit the contentious issue of guns in America.

"For me, I have moved forward. But I will never move on," she said. Roig-DeBellis, and many of the families who lost loved ones on that day, plan to be out of town for the anniversary.

One of the 6-year-olds was so sweet his teacher said he should have come to school wrapped in a bow.

Another loved princess tea parties, Justin Bieber and trips to New York. Still another, who rode horses, was hoping for a cowgirl hat and boots for Christmas.
 
Re: The Power of the SCOTUS IV: Gays, Guns, and Immigrants, OH MY!

Somber remembrances mark anniversary of Sandy Hook shooting

By Edith Honan

NEW YORK Sat Dec 14, 2013 7:09am EST

(Reuters) - One year later, the mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut, still evokes raw emotion and sadness. On Saturday, a day after another school shooting, this time at a Colorado high school where two students were wounded, the United States will pause to remember the tragedy and revisit the contentious issue of guns in America.

"For me, I have moved forward. But I will never move on," she said. Roig-DeBellis, and many of the families who lost loved ones on that day, plan to be out of town for the anniversary.

One of the 6-year-olds was so sweet his teacher said he should have come to school wrapped in a bow.

Another loved princess tea parties, Justin Bieber and trips to New York. Still another, who rode horses, was hoping for a cowgirl hat and boots for Christmas.

Just thinning the herd.
 
Re: The Power of the SCOTUS IV: Gays, Guns, and Immigrants, OH MY!

Just thinning the herd.

After reviewing this thread, its pretty simple. Banning such weapons is not against the Constitution and the monetary costs are quite low. As we've seen, it all comes down to moral priorities...and sadly, many place a surprisingly low value on human life.

On that note, I'll refrain from commenting on this for some time out of respect for the Sandy Hook tragedy.
 
Re: The Power of the SCOTUS IV: Gays, Guns, and Immigrants, OH MY!

Actually, I think gun control supporters might have better luck moving the needle if they were more explicit about couching the policy in moral terms.

It seems like whenever I hear some politician mention gun control, it's in the wake of a Sandy Hook-esque incident, and the justification given is that we need to pass some sort of reform so that this doesn't happen again.

Gun control opponents then freak out because they know fully well that whatever mild reform is being proposed will not, in fact, prevent that tragedy from happening again. The only thing that might make a difference would be some policy that went much, much further -- that would take millions of guns that are already out there out of circulation. They don't want government to do that, so they play for keeps.

Meanwhile, millions of Americans who fall somewhere in the middle hear those arguments and come to the conclusion: "Well, that reform probably wouldn't guarantee this would never happen again -- maybe the opponents have a point." And nothing happens.

Maybe gun control supporters shouldn't tiptoe around the issue. If trying to build the broadest possible coalition hasn't been a winning strategy (it hasn't), then go all in and try to build a smaller, but deeper coalition based on moral convictions.* Admittedly, that would be a bit out of character for the wonkier progressive opinion leaders - the Chris Hayes and Rachel Maddow types. It'd have to come from someone/somewhere else.

*No guarantee of success, obviously, but the incremental approach is such a failure that you have to wonder if LaPierre and the NRA secretly cheer every time it's tried.
 
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Re: The Power of the SCOTUS IV: Gays, Guns, and Immigrants, OH MY!

Actually, I think gun control supporters might have better luck moving the needle if they were more explicit about couching the policy in moral terms.

It seems like whenever I hear some politician mention gun control, it's in the wake of a Sandy Hook-esque incident, and the justification given is that we need to pass some sort of reform so that this doesn't happen again.

Gun control opponents then freak out because they know fully well that whatever mild reform is being proposed will not, in fact, prevent that tragedy from happening again. The only thing that might make a difference would be some policy that went much, much further -- that would take millions of guns that are already out there out of circulation. They don't want government to do that, so they play for keeps.

Meanwhile, millions of Americans who fall somewhere in the middle hear those arguments and come to the conclusion: "Well, that reform probably wouldn't guarantee this would never happen again -- maybe the opponents have a point." And nothing happens.

Maybe gun control supporters shouldn't tiptoe around the issue. If trying to build the broadest possible coalition hasn't been a winning strategy (it hasn't), then go all in and try to build a smaller, but deeper coalition based on moral convictions.* Admittedly, that would be a bit out of character for the wonkier progressive opinion leaders - the Chris Hayes and Rachel Maddow types. It'd have to come from someone/somewhere else.

*No guarantee of success, obviously, but the incremental approach is such a failure that you have to wonder if LaPierre and the NRA secretly cheer every time it's tried.
That's a good summary of things.
 
Re: The Power of the SCOTUS IV: Gays, Guns, and Immigrants, OH MY!

After reviewing this thread, its pretty simple. Banning such weapons is not against the Constitution and the monetary costs are quite low. As we've seen, it all comes down to moral priorities...and sadly, many place a surprisingly low value on human life.

On that note, I'll refrain from commenting on this for some time out of respect for the Sandy Hook tragedy.
Our nation in many ways does not exhibit a culture that places high value on human life. The gun control debate is pretty far down the list of those, if it belongs on that list at all.
 
Re: The Power of the SCOTUS IV: Gays, Guns, and Immigrants, OH MY!

We can ban assault rifles, but we will still have an insanely high rate of gun violence compared to other industrialized countries. The problem is America. We are ****ed up. Our entire culture is ****ed up.
 
Re: The Power of the SCOTUS IV: Gays, Guns, and Immigrants, OH MY!

We can ban assault rifles, but we will still have an insanely high rate of gun violence compared to other industrialized countries. The problem is America. We are ****ed up. Our entire culture is ****ed up.

Even when you look to other nations, prior to them having banned the use of hand guns, we still had higher murder rates than these other countries. For whatever reason, we have a more violent culture here than many other nations. Although, if you look across Europe, during demonstrations we tend to not break into deadly riots as often as they do over there, for whatever reason that may be.
 
Re: The Power of the SCOTUS IV: Gays, Guns, and Immigrants, OH MY!

Even when you look to other nations, prior to them having banned the use of hand guns, we still had higher murder rates than these other countries. For whatever reason, we have a more violent culture here than many other nations. Although, if you look across Europe, during demonstrations we tend to not break into deadly riots as often as they do over there, for whatever reason that may be.

Seems to me we have a lot more gang warfare than Europe does, which if true, could be a big part of the reason why. Or is gang violence in Europe just not as heavily reported?
 
Re: The Power of the SCOTUS IV: Gays, Guns, and Immigrants, OH MY!

Seems to me we have a lot more gang warfare than Europe does, which if true, could be a big part of the reason why. Or is gang violence in Europe just not as heavily reported?

I know there's gang violence in Europe, but I don't think they're as overt about it as our gangs here are. Perhpas they're just better at not involving children walking along the street like we've seen here. Also, I wouldn't pretend to know what the rates per capita are or if anyone actually tracks that specific stat.
 
Re: The Power of the SCOTUS IV: Gays, Guns, and Immigrants, OH MY!

This case should up before SCOTUS: http://www.politico.com/story/2013/12/national-security-agency-phones-judge-101203.html?ml=tb

It will be interesting. Spying is necessary, but how much is too much?

The courts should be the ones to scale this back. IIRC they orginally had to put some curbs on post 9/11 tactics. They ought to do the same regarding the NSA as I don't expect the politicians to do so anytime soon.
 
Re: The Power of the SCOTUS IV: Gays, Guns, and Immigrants, OH MY!

Cross-posted from PPACA thread

From Business Week:

U.S. District Judge Brian Cogan in Brooklyn today barred the government from enforcing the mandate [to provide their employees with contraception coverage] against Catholic Health Care System, Catholic Health Services of Long Island, Cardinal Spellman High School and Monsignor Farrell High School.

The groups “have demonstrated that the mandate, despite accommodation, compels them to perform acts that are contrary to their religion,” Cogan wrote. “And there can be no doubt that the coercive pressure here is substantial.”
 
Re: The Power of the SCOTUS IV: Gays, Guns, and Immigrants, OH MY!

Maybe there is a little hope for the judiciary.
 
Maybe there is a little hope for the judiciary.

Amazing how all that takes is for one thing to come out that you agree with.

Because clearly your positions are the only valid ones and anyone who differs from you is being an activist. :rolleyes:
 
Re: The Power of the SCOTUS IV: Gays, Guns, and Immigrants, OH MY!

Amazing how all that takes is for one thing to come out that you agree with.

Because clearly your positions are the only valid ones and anyone who differs from you is being an activist. :rolleyes:

I'm not sure why Bob, Fishy, etc all get themselves lathered up whenever a lower court rules they way they like. They almost inevitably get shot down by a higher court. Remember how Roberts was going to overturn the ACA?
 
Re: The Power of the SCOTUS IV: Gays, Guns, and Immigrants, OH MY!

I'm not sure why Bob, Fishy, etc all get themselves lathered up whenever a lower court rules they way they like. They almost inevitably get shot down by a higher court. Remember how Roberts was going to overturn the ACA?

Thanks. Now I am exposed to one of unofan's yammerings. Too bad they don't make the ignore list more sophisticated and block when other people quote someone on your ignore list. But, sounds like unofan is still behaving in a classless manner, so in a way it's helpful to affirm why he's still on ignore.
 
Re: The Power of the SCOTUS IV: Gays, Guns, and Immigrants, OH MY!

Thanks. Now I am exposed to one of unofan's yammerings. Too bad they don't make the ignore list more sophisticated and block when other people quote someone on your ignore list. But, sounds like unofan is still behaving in a classless manner, so in a way it's helpful to affirm why he's still on ignore.

Gotta fess up here Bob, that was partly my motivation! ;) :D
 
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