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The Power of the SCOTUS II: "Release the Kagan!"

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Re: The Power of the SCOTUS II: "Release the Kagan!"

What ban on ethnic studies? It was a specific course in Tucson that there were issues with. Never heard of anything statewide here.

Just to be clear from Wikipedia:

In May 2010, the Governor of Arizona signed House Bill 2281 which bans all ethnically exclusive forms of state-funded teaching in the state. Chicano Studies will be disbanded in state-funded schools effective on January 1, 2011.
 
Re: The Power of the SCOTUS II: "Release the Kagan!"

Just to be clear from Wikipedia:

In May 2010, the Governor of Arizona signed House Bill 2281 which bans all ethnically exclusive forms of state-funded teaching in the state. Chicano Studies will be disbanded in state-funded schools effective on January 1, 2011.
Like I said, I think by ethnically exclusive, it meant a certain way the Tucson program was done. I haven't seen anything here where other ethnic studies programs around the state have been impacted.
 
Re: The Power of the SCOTUS II: "Release the Kagan!"

An interesting historical survey of Presidents disagreeing with Supreme Court decisions in today's Wall Street Journal.

Basically, Presidents have rarely been successful by attacking the Court directly. Instead, either they get a Constitutional Amendment passed (e.g., the income tax) or they bide their time and wait for someone to resign or die. It seems voters have liked judicial independence for a long time.
 
Re: The Power of the SCOTUS II: "Release the Kagan!"

An interesting historical survey of Presidents disagreeing with Supreme Court decisions in today's Wall Street Journal.

Basically, Presidents have rarely been successful by attacking the Court directly. Instead, either they get a Constitutional Amendment passed (e.g., the income tax) or they bide their time and wait for someone to resign or die. It seems voters have liked judicial independence for a long time.

Which is good, since it preserves checks and balances.

It will be fun watching the GOP simultaneously attacking "judicial activism" while defending "judicial independence." :)
 
Re: The Power of the SCOTUS II: "Release the Kagan!"

It will be fun watching the GOP simultaneously attacking "judicial activism" while defending "judicial independence." :)


You have a droll sense of "fun."

It seems to me that the Repugnican message will be quite terse: "vote for Romney so that Obama doesn't get any more chances to nominate any more Justices" and that will be about all they have to say on the subject.
 
Re: The Power of the SCOTUS II: "Release the Kagan!"

It seems to me that the Repugnican message will be quite terse: "vote for Romney so that Obama doesn't get any more chances to nominate any more Justices" and that will be about all they have to say on the subject.
I think they will roll out a social issues message to reinforce it, but yeah, that sounds about right. Gotta figure Ginsburg will retire if Obama wins re-election, so he would get at least one more. Kennedy and Scalia would each be 80 in 2016 -- Scalia would stay just because. Kennedy though... that's interesting.

Breyer will be 78 in 2016. I wonder whether he would retire to complete the rejuvenation of the "liberal" wing. In any case, the oldest four justices (2 liberal, 1 conservative, 1 center) were born in the 1930's, and their replacements will all be born in the 1960's.

After those four there is ten year age gap until the next oldest justice (Thomas), so we could be approaching another long period with a stable Court, like 1994-2005.

If the analogy of the GOP collapse with the 80's Dem collapse held strictly and the Dems held the presidency for a full 12 years, we could wind up with a Court composition circa 2020 of (birth year in parens):

6 Liberals (54, 60, 6x, 6x, 6x, 6x)
3 Conservatives (48, 50, 55)

which might wind up making the Warren Court look right wing. :)

On the other hand, there was a period when 8 of the 9 justices was a Republican nominee, so who knows?
 
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Re: The Power of the SCOTUS II: "Release the Kagan!"

Here's hoping. :)
Wouldn't shock me. Not much does anymore. Of course if the Reps could get their act together and get to make an appointment or two if a liberal justice steps down/dies, then you might get a solidly conservative court for the first time in memory. And they'd actually appoint conservative justices, which they only sometimes have done in the past (unlike Dem's stellar success in nominating pretty much only liberal justices). Now that would be a shocker!
 
Re: The Power of the SCOTUS II: "Release the Kagan!"

Like I said, I think by ethnically exclusive, it meant a certain way the Tucson program was done. I haven't seen anything here where other ethnic studies programs around the state have been impacted.

So basically they're just targeting Hispanics. Got it.
 
Re: The Power of the SCOTUS II: "Release the Kagan!"

Who needs a Constitution
Oh, people need a Constitution for cover, but they now realize they can, over time, make it say whatever they want.

"The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people,
it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government, lest it come to dominate our lives and interests."

Patrick Henry
 
Re: The Power of the SCOTUS II: "Release the Kagan!"

Oh, people need a Constitution for cover, but they now realize they can, over time, make it say whatever they want.

"The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people,
it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government, lest it come to dominate our lives and interests."

Patrick Henry
Both sides are guilty of trying to dominate our lives and wave the constitution as an excuse. You have the social issues, the fiscal issues and the legal stuff. I feel confident that the founding fathers would be appalled at what people say they were trying to do or what ppeople would like to do in using that document.
 
Re: The Power of the SCOTUS II: "Release the Kagan!"

Both sides are guilty of trying to dominate our lives and wave the constitution as an excuse. You have the social issues, the fiscal issues and the legal stuff. I feel confident that the founding fathers would be appalled at what people say they were trying to do or what people would like to do in using that document.
The Founding Fathers did not have an antipathy towards constitutions and the rule of law. They only wanted to see that their traditional rights as Englishmen were not abridged.

We should stop trying to reinvent the Founders as some sort of Libertarian think tank. They were products of a different age with different perspectives. The only view you would get uniformally from them if you ran these "original intent" arguments past them would be, "Good God, you guys are still treating our words like Scripture 230 years later? That's very flattering, but we were hopeful you might be able to design your own appropriate system every generation or so."

They would be aghast that people turned the minutes of one particular convention into a fetish.

Where the "originalists" go wrong is by fixating on specific language they missed the whole underlying point that Adams and Jefferson were on about. The mechanism of change has to be through appeal to the popular sovereign (in their time... the fifteen guys you were on Law Review with), but change is healthy and expected. The focus should be on getting the votes and getting the amendments. Just pass a flipping amendment that leaves no doubt that our age accepts that having an EPA or an FDA or a Department of Education are explicitly within the powers of the federal government.

This is another reason to let the Confederacy go next time. We kept the marriage together "for the sake of the children," and nice effort, but it really has been a fundamental mismatch of values. Leave the gun. Take the canollis.
 
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Re: The Power of the SCOTUS II: "Release the Kagan!"

All I can think of is (Haha- this is ironic)The book of Matthew where Jesus tells people they are getting obsessed with the letter of the law and missing the point. You said with more clarity what I was trying to articulate. One of the things I think of is most of them would be surprised that they have changed from being Theists to Christian Fundamentalists.
 
Re: The Power of the SCOTUS II: "Release the Kagan!"

Where the "originalists" go wrong is by fixating on specific language they missed the whole underlying point that Adams and Jefferson were on about. The mechanism of change has to be through appeal to the popular sovereign...[because] change is healthy and [to be] expected. The focus should be on getting the votes and getting the amendments. Just pass a flipping amendment that leaves no doubt ...

It's interesting how often we agree.

I've been trying to articulate the same point for awhile. We have an amendment process: if your plan is so great for everyone, then everyone will sign on, and we can pass an amendment to spell out how far we can go to implement it. Imagine how much less trouble FDR would have had with the SCOTUS if he merely had tried to implement a few new amendments; he had the majorities to pass them and send them on to the states, and the times were such that well-crafted amendments likely would have attracted the 3/4 majority needed for implementation. His problems were impatience and hubris (hmm...sound familiar to anyone else we know?)

The EPA seems to be exceeding its statutory role in certain areas, for example (based on a recent theory they advanced about CO[SUB]2[/SUB] emissions, they easily could claim the authority to regulate breathing!). It would be nicer to have a clear succinct understandable description of what it can or cannot do.



These days, rarely is it a question of "whether" we do something, far more often it is a question of degree: "how much of it" is a "good thing" and when does it become "excessive"?



I was in our break room the other day and there is a big 2' x 3' poster that is mandated to be there (and in every place of employment throughout the country). On it are a detailed list of regulations in 7 boxes: two from DOL, one from EEOC, one from OSHA, a few more I can't recall right now but if I remember I'll update this list on Monday. There was a similar poster of equal size from the state government as well.

We recently wanted to expand a parking lot next to our existing one on land we already owned. Turns out we'd need to file 37 forms with 18 agencies, one of them certifying that there was no lead paint present. No one in this day and age wants to regress, on the other hand no one wants to be strangled either. We need to find some balance.





While I am an ardent liberal, I find that these days, I generally have more sympathy with conservatives than with progressives because so many of the latter have the fiery passion of zealots, they are so sure they are right that they brook no dissent. One of the fundamental tenets of philosophical conservatism (not transient political "conservatism") is that people are fallible. It is a bit amusing yet true, yesterday's radical is today's conservative. At the time of the passage of the 14th amendment, conservatives opposed it, yet now conservatives call upon it as a fundamental right. Once enough time passes, conservatives generally do get on board if an idea makes sense to enough people.
 
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Re: The Power of the SCOTUS II: "Release the Kagan!"

All I can think of is (Haha- this is ironic)One of the things I think of is most of them would be surprised that they have changed from being Theists to Christian Fundamentalists.
Where by "surprised" read "horrified." From the experience of Europe the Founders hated two things: kings and thumpers. America was created to ditch both.
 
Re: The Power of the SCOTUS II: "Release the Kagan!"

It's interesting how often we agree.

I've been trying to articulate the same point for awhile. We have an amendment process: if your plan is so great for everyone, then everyone will sign on, and we can pass an amendment to spell out how far we can go to implement it. Imagine how much less trouble FDR would have had with the SCOTUS if he merely had tried to implement a few new amendments; he had the majorities to pass them and send them on to the states, and the times were such that well-crafted amendments likely would have attracted the 3/4 majority needed for implementation.

I'd be fine with this. And I am all for shedding the dead weight we've dragged around since 1865 to make it happen.
 
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