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The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

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Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

I wonder if gay marriage is just a fad because it's the "in" season to do? Pretty soon, the homosexuals will get bored with it like their heterosexual cousins and just live together.

Which heterosexual cousins were denied the right to marry?

Are you wondering whether gays will get bored with the fight for gay marriage like folks wondered if blacks would get bored with that faddish fight for equality in the 60s and just sit in the back of the bus with whites who chose to ride there?.
 
Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

Which heterosexual cousins were denied the right to marry?

Are you wondering whether gays will get bored with the fight for gay marriage like folks wondered if blacks would get bored with that faddish fight for equality in the 60s and just sit in the back of the bus with whites who chose to ride there?.
No- they'll stop getting "married" and just live together - just like the heteros are doing.
 
Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

Which heterosexual cousins were denied the right to marry?

Are you wondering whether gays will get bored with the fight for gay marriage like folks wondered if blacks would get bored with that faddish fight for equality in the 60s and just sit in the back of the bus with whites who chose to ride there?.

I doubt it. Being married is awesome if you pick the right person (and you wait until you're 35 as a man or 30 as a woman). Most people don't put in the effort either in choosing their partner or in working through the marriage, but then again most people are too lazy to get to the end of this paragraph. Now that the original "threat" reason for marriage is gone (you must be married to have sex or God will torture you for eternity because that's the sort of sociopath He is), people will marry because they want to and they are willing to work hard. Or because she wants Her Day and he's too tired to fight about it. You know -- healthy reasons. :)
 
Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

No- they'll stop getting "married" and just live together - just like the heteros are doing.

Non sequitur alert. I'm pretty sure gay couples are several decades ahead of heteros when it comes to shacking up, since they...you know...couldn't marry until very recently.
 
Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

I wonder if gay marriage is just a fad because it's the "in" season to do? Pretty soon, the homosexuals will get bored with it like their heterosexual cousins and just live together.
Quite probably one of the most bigoted, cruelest statements I've ever read on this board. I guess visitation rights, rights of survivorship, power of attorney, etc are just fads that aren't really inalienable rights possessed by those sub-human gay people. You do your religion proud.
 
Quite probably one of the most bigoted, cruelest statements I've ever read on this board. I guess visitation rights, rights of survivorship, power of attorney, etc are just fads that aren't really inalienable rights possessed by those sub-human gay people. You do your religion proud.
Where am I bigoted except in your calcified, Lake Cayuga polluted, mind?

Inalienable rights of property inheritance, powers of attorney? Huh? Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of happiness are the bedrock of our Republic. Guess you and Kepler did not attend the same classes at SUNY-Ithaca.

Marriage is not the solution to cohabiting that our parents our grand parents practiced lo those many generations ago. Today, lots of people live together without a legal union. There is little stigma attached to the couple's who do so. There is even a legal term - "domestic partner". Far as I can tell the term is gender neutral.

Is it a trend that's going to be with us for a while or is it a passing fad? Time will tell.

If you're concerned about survivorship, powers of attorney, visitation, put ît in a legal document. Courts respect them, regardless of martial status. I have them in a will and other documents and in a medical POA. Fortunately I don't have to worry about visitation rights.

Gay marriage is new. It's exciting to those who desire it. It's the article of the day in the Washington Post. Will it lose its luster and become just like opposite sex marriage has? Probably - gays are no different than the rest of us.

Will gays have the same divorce rate as straights? Hope not. I hope all marriages last until "death do us part".
 
Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

Where am I bigoted except in your calcified, Lake Cayuga polluted, mind?

Inalienable rights of property inheritance, powers of attorney? Huh? Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of happiness are the bedrock of our Republic. Guess you and Kepler did not attend the same classes at SUNY-Ithaca.
Heeeeeelarious, considering that the Declaration of Independence explicitly says that the three you mention are merely "among" the inalienable rights - and yet you seem content to "calcify" things at that point in history, rather than letting the proper authorities (the courts) decide what are and are not the proper rights of the people.

If you're concerned about survivorship, powers of attorney, visitation, put ît in a legal document.
Oh, the irony.... Let them eat cake?

Gay marriage is new. It's exciting to those who desire it. It's the article of the day in the Washington Post. Will it lose its luster and become just like opposite sex marriage has? Probably - gays are no different than the rest of us.
That is *exactly* the point, which you are completely missing. I hope gay marriage does become boring and just like opposite sex marriage. I look forward to seeing what new fear-mongering tactics those who oppose it will invent then.
 
Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

And we all believe you...

Hmm... let's see, what concerns me more? taking a position one way or the other on gay marriage, or preventing child abuse?
(the latter)
What concerns me more? taking a position one way or the other on gay marriage, or preventing domestic violence?
(the latter)
What concerns me more? taking a position one way or the other on gay marriage, or making sure our power grid isn't hacked by terrorists?
(the latter)
What concerns me more? taking a position one way or the other on gay marriage, or promoting women's rights in Muslim countries?
(the latter)
What concerns me more? etc. etc. etc.


Let's say, hypothetically, that the results that SCOTUS forced upon us in Roe v Wade is just about where society would have arrived at through a democratic consensus anyway. Had SCOTUS not intervened, we'd be where we are now anyway except it would no longer be a divisive issue: through a series of compromises among various voting interests, we'd have either enthusiastically or grudgingly accepted the outcome and then moved on. By short-circuiting that process, SCOTUS produced the opposite result. An issue that should have been settled long ago is still agitating people today, merely because they feel something was forced upon them against their will. It is a far different matter having a majority of your friends and neighbors concur on a result you don't like than having nine oracles make a proclamation from on high and ignore your input entirely. You will grudgingly go along with the former and move on; you will maintain long-simmering resentment against the latter years later.

Even worse, the reasoning behind Roe v Wade was atrocious. Even people who think that they reached the right result and did the right thing in ruling when they did, shudder at the way SCOTUS arrived at their conclusion: "penumbras" and "emanations"? Seriously? If a high school student presented a paper like that in logic class, s/he'd probably have received a failing grade. It seemed pretty obvious that they started with a conclusion and then scrambled to find a way to justify it afterward.

Similar situation with gay marriage: most states through the democratic process would grant gay couples all the rights they want; and the compromise that would be reached would be to call it civil unions and be done with it. Now, only the militants on either side are exercised over the semantics related to the term "marriage." The debate is no longer about substance, it is only about symbolism.

Kennedy's ruling striking down sections of DOMA was not based on logic nor reasoning, it was based on his emotional reactions. that is not a good foundation for legal precedent. Analogous situation to Roe v Wade: SCOTUS' position is where the country was already heading anyway, but by short-circuiting (or even worse, by blatantly over-riding) the democratic process, it takes an issue that would have faded into the background because of enthusiastic or grudging compromise, and turned it into a grievance-fest for people who don't like having things shoved down their throats, even if they would have eventually acceded to exactly the same result had force not been applied in the first place.

There are far too many other, more important matters that need our attention beyond an extended argument over the semantics of the term "marriage." They can have all the rights they want exactly as they want them, yet that is not enough. The courts should not step in one way or the other, it is a situation to be resolved through the democratic process, and it's beyond obvious that they have history and momentum and public sympathy on their side.
 
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Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

I like where you're going here. Maybe I can sign up to be head of the SCOTUS's first-ever "Which-way-is-the-wind-blowing public opinion polling service!"

One of the key purposes of the court is to provide a check against the tyranny of the majority. If SCOTUS just starts defaulting to being a follower of public opinion, that check is obliterated. What you're suggesting is exactly the opposite of what we need the court to do. The entire reason that the justices are not elected and that they serve for a term of "good behavior" is to insulate them insofar as is practical from public opinion (aka special interests).
 
Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

I like where you're going here. Maybe I can sign up to be head of the SCOTUS's first-ever "Which-way-is-the-wind-blowing public opinion polling service!"

One of the key purposes of the court is to provide a check against the tyranny of the majority. If SCOTUS just starts defaulting to being a follower of public opinion, that check is obliterated. What you're suggesting is exactly the opposite of what we need the court to do. The entire reason that the justices are not elected and that they serve for a term of "good behavior" is to insulate them insofar as is practical from public opinion (aka special interests).

The Court's counter-majoritarian role is central to its value and always has been
 
Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

One of the key purposes of the court is to provide a check against the tyranny of the majority. If SCOTUS just starts defaulting to being a follower of public opinion, that check is obliterated. What you're suggesting is exactly the opposite of what we need the court to do. The entire reason that the justices are not elected and that they serve for a term of "good behavior" is to insulate them insofar as is practical from public opinion (aka special interests).


That's all well and good and gets no argument here. A serious problem arises when the Justices start with their personal opinions at the outset and then find a way to reason backward to support those opinions.

Another problem arises when there is no guidance whatsoever in the Constitution one way or the other. Certain developments were just never imagined by our Founders. How can someone claim to find something that just isn't there to begin with? Part of the genius of the Constitution is that it contains a built-in self-correcting feature: the ability to amend it.

The role of the Court is to interpret the law, not to make it up as they go along.

Every now and then, if they care about preserving judicial integrity, it seems to me that they simply need to say that there currently is no existing guidance for them to draw from. This would happen rarely.

Potential example: surrogate parenthood, in which one woman's fertilized egg is implanted into another woman's uterus: who has parental rights, the people who provided the DNA, or the person who nourished their egg until birth?

People can offer their opinions one way or the other, but the foundation of law is not supposed to be opinions, it is supposed to be the language of the Constitution as amplified by statutory language. If there is no language extant to cover a novel situation, there is nothing to interpret.
 
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Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

But brains are definitely different -- men have amazing pattern recognition from needing to see the tiger in the distance and abstract cognition from having to visualize the hunting party tactics; women have amazing multi-tasking abilities from having to do all their work with a screaming baby in the background and are filled up with hormones from carrying a fetus for 9 months.

Different? Maybe. But not that different. I think there are a lot of common misconceptions floating around about our neural networks that really are not supported by current literature. I think the differences between brains are better represented by 99% overlapping bell curves instead of a two separate peaks if that makes any sense.

IIRC, much of the research that "left brain vs right brain" and "multitasker vs hunter" is based on observational studies of questionable quality with unsupported conclusions. There is also the problem that this is very difficult to study in humans and we rely on animal models that are difficult to extrapolate conclusions from. And that is coming from someone who did four years of hippocampal neurogenesis research in rats :) I also think it falls under the increasing amount of psychology that is better understood from a neurological standpoint due to better imaging studies and anatomical correlations.

tl:dr
We do not know near enough to say things like that with confidence.
 
Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

I'm a fan of ICE myself. The tiny, beleaguered, outgunned Y chromosome, sleeping in haystacks by day, hiding from the hunter-killer X chromosome terminators...

Looks like a fun read :) Behind a paywall for me but I will give it a go tomorrow at work. I am always up for reading 15+ year old genetics (epigenetics?) papers.

I was trained in undergrad by an oldschool, Harvard/MIT trained neuroanatomist. He could tear apart methods of great papers like they were written in crayon. I blame him for turning me into the person who has to ruin everyone's fun stories at a party.
 
Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

Looks like a fun read :) Behind a paywall for me but I will give it a go tomorrow at work. I am always up for reading 15+ year old genetics (epigenetics?) papers.

I was trained in undergrad by an oldschool, Harvard/MIT trained neuroanatomist. He could tear apart methods of great papers like they were written in crayon. I blame him for turning me into the person who has to ruin everyone's fun stories at a party.

You're always welcome at my parties. I like those people.

I know less than nothing about neuroanatomy. I only know about ICE and Red Queen because of Matt Ridley and "Genome." For all I know he could be a con artist raking in money with pseudo-scientific gibberish like Malcolm Gladwell.
 
Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

Every time I see that fcking face of Dr Oz, that fcking face, I just want to run to the neatest living thing and kill it.
 
Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

Every time I see that fcking face of Dr Oz, that fcking face, I just want to run to the neatest living thing and kill it.

:) Every ****ing time I have to spend 75% of my time with a patient walking back the garbage he sells I feel the same way. People who sell false hope to the desperate are truly despicable.

Sad thing is, he WAS a respected academic in a former life.

Good thing some of this country's best journalists double as comedians.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WA0wKeokWUU
 
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