The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

[Priceless]

FF's bizarre post when he said that was #29. Priceless's post that I was responding to was #50, where he only quoted busterman62 regarding voter ID laws. Priceless had already previously responded to FreshFish in #44, when he quoted FreshFish's post #36, NOT #29. It's not clear to me why you would think that Priceless was going all the way back to address #29, when he hadn't done so in #44 and didn't quote FreshFish in #50.

I'm saying that if CJ Roberts thinks racism in America is a thing of the past, he needs to have a long talk with Donald Sterling.

I often address multiple things when I post. I can't multi-quote on this thing (nor can I embed links) so I address what I address and can't always quote everything.

 

[FreshFish]

Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

a February 2012 report by the Pew Research Center on the States, "Inaccurate, Costly, and Inefficient: Evidence That America's Voter Registration System Needs an Upgrade," found that 1.8 million deceased registrants were listed as active voters, and that 2.75 million voters had active registrations in more than one state.

hmm...

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

hmm...

Could well be true. Trick is we have to sufficiently invest in the government in order for the issues it has to get fixed. Not a lot of stomach to do those types of things.

 

[SJHovey]

Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

It's not just photo ID. It's doing away with early-voting, shortening the hours, putting polling machines in predominantly white voting districts while those that are predominantly black have few machines and longer lines.

Is there anything more racist than when someone suggests all we have to do is enact voter id laws, eliminate early voting, shorten the hours to vote, and put different numbers of voting machines in different precincts, and racial minorities will never be able to figure out how to vote?

And no, I'm not calling you a racist. I realize you are parroting arguments that have been made for years by certain sectors of our public.

 

[Fighting Sioux 23]

Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

Could well be true. Trick is we have to sufficiently invest in the government in order for the issues it has to get fixed. Not a lot of stomach to do those types of things.

This topic really should be in the political thread because it is a political issue. Republicans want strict Voter ID laws because they disproportionately hurt Democrats, and Democrats do not want them because they are disproportionately hurt by them. If it were flipped around, you'd have Democrats trying to pass strict Voter ID laws, and Republicans opposing them. It's another example of political gamesmanship that is ruining the country.

Anyone trying to say this is truly about voter fraud is disingenuous at best. Of course, one particular poster in this thread is the epitome of disingenuous.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

This topic really should be in the political thread because it is a political issue. Republicans want strict Voter ID laws because they disproportionately hurt Democrats, and Democrats do not want them because they are disproportionately hurt by them. If it were flipped around, you'd have Democrats trying to pass strict Voter ID laws, and Republicans opposing them. It's another example of political gamesmanship that is ruining the country.

Anyone trying to say this is truly about voter fraud is disingenuous at best. Of course, one particular poster in this thread is the epitome of disingenuous.

Yes, but WHY are the Democrats hurt by it and why are the Republicans bolstered by it? And WHY do the Republicans want it so bad when the amount of verifiable voter fraud is practically zero? Those who think this is basked in racism need to start asking themselves why they want to stifle the vote. There are places where the lines have been out the door for a few blocks at polling places that are now restricting absentee voting, etc. Why? Since we can't say it's racism (SJHovey) what is it?

 

[St. Clown]

Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

Yes, but WHY are the Democrats hurt by it and why are the Republicans bolstered by it? And WHY do the Republicans want it so bad when the amount of verifiable voter fraud is practically zero? Those who think this is basked in racism need to start asking themselves why they want to stifle the vote. There are places where the lines have been out the door for a few blocks at polling places that are now restricting absentee voting, etc. Why? Since we can't say it's racism (SJHovey) what is it?

Well, that's the key word in the whole situation - verifiable. Shortly after the 2012 election, I was listening to a lawyer who specializes in election laws. He said that it's almost impossible to detect voter fraud when it's not done en masse, and even if you do detect it, it's even more difficult to successfully prosecute on it. In order to get a conviction on it, you almost need the person to confess to doing it, just like that idiot 18/19yo kid did following the 2009 election, when he admitted to voting in three locations around Minneapolis in order to expose the problems with the MN system (paraphrased). He might still be in jail.

 

[Fighting Sioux 23]

Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

Yes, but WHY are the Democrats hurt by it and why are the Republicans bolstered by it? And WHY do the Republicans want it so bad when the amount of verifiable voter fraud is practically zero? Those who think this is basked in racism need to start asking themselves why they want to stifle the vote. There are places where the lines have been out the door for a few blocks at polling places that are now restricting absentee voting, etc. Why? Since we can't say it's racism (SJHovey) what is it?

It's politics. Again, if the situation was reversed, and Republicans were disadvantaged, Democrats would be all over having strict voter ID laws. It would have nothing to do with any sort of discrimination against the very white and extremely old, it would simply be anti-Republican. That's what is going on here. It's not that Republicans are against minorities from voting, but rather they are against Democrats from voting, and Republicans are smart enough to understand that the vast majority of minorities are Democrats. Again, it's pure political gamesmanship.

 

[SJHovey]

Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

Yes, but WHY are the Democrats hurt by it and why are the Republicans bolstered by it? And WHY do the Republicans want it so bad when the amount of verifiable voter fraud is practically zero? Those who think this is basked in racism need to start asking themselves why they want to stifle the vote. There are places where the lines have been out the door for a few blocks at polling places that are now restricting absentee voting, etc. Why? Since we can't say it's racism (SJHovey) what is it?

Do I think there are some people in the Republican party who think that by making people show up with an ID, or shortening the hours to vote, that they will reduce the number of people who will vote, and that a majority of those people eliminated would have voted Democrat? Absolutely. Do those same people have some racist motives? Probably. And those people are idiots. Where is the basis for why they think their plan will work? It's probably just as likely you're going to eliminate a bunch of hillbillys from Mississippi from voting, and those people would have voted Republican. Who knows?

What I'm saying is that it's equally, if not more racist, for people on the other side to give credence to those stupid ideas by saying they'll be successful, if implemented.

 

[St. Clown]

Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

Do I think there are some people in the Republican party who think that by making people show up with an ID, or shortening the hours to vote, that they will reduce the number of people who will vote, and that a majority of those people eliminated would have voted Democrat? Absolutely.

That's an exceptionally foolish idea to have, if it truly is their intent. It's been shown time and again that Dems tend to vote earlier and Repubs later in the day.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

That's an exceptionally foolish idea to have, if it truly is their intent. It's been shown time and again that Dems tend to vote earlier and Repubs later in the day.

I think the hilarity is in the Republican premise. They can't prove voter fraud yet it's the only excuse they can come up with to restrict the vote. And somehow restricting the vote is one of their key tenets to getting elected.

The entire premise is hilarious.

 

[Priceless]

Is there anything more racist than when someone suggests all we have to do is enact voter id laws, eliminate early voting, shorten the hours to vote, and put different numbers of voting machines in different precincts, and racial minorities will never be able to figure out how to vote?

And no, I'm not calling you a racist. I realize you are parroting arguments that have been made for years by certain sectors of our public.

That's a beautiful strawman you've built there, but no one is saying they won't be able to figure out HOW to vote. What I'm arguing is that they won't be able to find the time to vote. The way it is now, people can vote early to avoid the rush and to go at a time that might be convenient to them. If I'm a working parent who spends the day at the office and has to pick the kids up from daycare, it doesn't leave a whole lot of time for voting on a Tuesday. If there is a line at the polling place because there are only a couple machines, it makes it impossible for me to wait. However, I can easily hit the polls on Saturday when I take my kid to his football game. Meanwhile, over in the predominantly white district, there are no lines because they have 10 machines. It brings back such fond memories of the old "separate but equal" days.

But we don't have to worry about that, because Justice Roberts assures us that racism is a thing of the past. I imagine those letters to the Atlanta Braves were all faked to stir up racial hostility and divert attention away from the Native American mascot. That guy probably wrote, "The only good black person is one who is alive and well and enjoying life." And I'm sure that is what he is teaching his children, just as his father taught him.

And no, I'm not calling you a racist. I realize you are parroting arguments that have been made for years by certain sectors of our public.

 

[SJHovey]

Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

That's a beautiful strawman you've built there, but no one is saying they won't be able to figure out HOW to vote. What I'm arguing is that they won't be able to find the time to vote. The way it is now, people can vote early to avoid the rush and to go at a time that might be convenient to them. If I'm a working parent who spends the day at the office and has to pick the kids up from daycare, it doesn't leave a whole lot of time for voting on a Tuesday. If there is a line at the polling place because there are only a couple machines, it makes it impossible for me to wait. However, I can easily hit the polls on Saturday when I take my kid to his football game. Meanwhile, over in the predominantly white district, there are no lines because they have 10 machines. It brings back such fond memories of the old "separate but equal" days.

But we don't have to worry about that, because Justice Roberts assures us that racism is a thing of the past. I imagine those letters to the Atlanta Braves were all faked to stir up racial hostility and divert attention away from the Native American mascot. That guy probably wrote, "The only good black person is one who is alive and well and enjoying life." And I'm sure that is what he is teaching his children, just as his father taught him.

And no, I'm not calling you a racist. I realize you are parroting arguments that have been made for years by certain sectors of our public.

Fine. So change my sentence. Is there anything more racist than when someone suggests all we have to do is enact voter id laws, eliminate early voting, shorten the hours to vote, and put different numbers of voting machines in different precincts, and racial minorities will never find the time to vote?

If some clowns in the Democratic party decided we should adopt voting rules that only permit voting between 10 a.m. and noon, and 1:30-3:30 p.m. because they thought it might reduce the turnout from corporate America, and thus favor the Democrats, my response to O'Reilly or Rush or anyone else who felt the need to come to my defense, to protect me from inappropriate discrimination? I don't you need you looking out for me, or protecting me. I think I'll be able to figure it out and get my vote in.

 

[Priceless]

Fine. So change my sentence. Is there anything more racist than when someone suggests all we have to do is enact voter id laws, eliminate early voting, shorten the hours to vote, and put different numbers of voting machines in different precincts, and racial minorities will never find the time to vote?

If some clowns in the Democratic party decided we should adopt voting rules that only permit voting between 10 a.m. and noon, and 1:30-3:30 p.m. because they thought it might reduce the turnout from corporate America, and thus favor the Democrats, my response to O'Reilly or Rush or anyone else who felt the need to come to my defense, to protect me from inappropriate discrimination? I don't you need you looking out for me, or protecting me. I think I'll be able to figure it out and get my vote in.

I forgot, the demographic of users on a college hockey message board so closely resembles the demographic of the public at large. The population is almost exclusively made up of college educated white males. My mistake.

 

[Handyman]

Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

Fine. So change my sentence. Is there anything more racist than when someone suggests all we have to do is enact voter id laws, eliminate early voting, shorten the hours to vote, and put different numbers of voting machines in different precincts, and racial minorities will never find the time to vote?

If some clowns in the Democratic party decided we should adopt voting rules that only permit voting between 10 a.m. and noon, and 1:30-3:30 p.m. because they thought it might reduce the turnout from corporate America, and thus favor the Democrats, my response to O'Reilly or Rush or anyone else who felt the need to come to my defense, to protect me from inappropriate discrimination? I don't you need you looking out for me, or protecting me. I think I'll be able to figure it out and get my vote in.

And if there is no way? Not everyone has the resources to work around the problem which is something that gets ignored.

And yes I would be against the Dems restricting votes the other way...the system only works if everyone has their chance to voice their opinion.

I dont think the Republicans are enacting this for racist reasons, but to act like it doesnt affect a certain group disproportionately like some around here do is laughable. The people behind it may not be racist but the act itself is and goes against the idea of equal protection. I would rather a few thousand dead vote than have innocent people restricted from it.

 

[SJHovey]

Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

And if there is no way? Not everyone has the resources to work around the problem which is something that gets ignored.

Handy, I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you here. I just think the "lack of resources" argument gets trotted out too often, usually for political purposes, in this debate.

If a citizen in this country really wants to vote, I mean they really have every desire and intention of voting in a state or federal election, there aren't any laws that they've passed, or are proposed, that will realistically prohibit that person from voting.

If you need an id, then get an id. Don't wait until 4 p.m. on election day. Go now.

If you have to work, check to see if there are laws in your state that require employers to release you from work with sufficient time to vote. Many states have these. Or plan to vote before or after work. Or get an absentee ballot ahead of time and vote.

I understand not everyone has been as fortunate as some of us in terms of employment, resources, etc... But if you really want to vote in this country, there isn't anything standing in your way, and there hasn't been anything proposed that will stand in your way.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

Handy, I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you here. I just think the "lack of resources" argument gets trotted out too often, usually for political purposes, in this debate.

If a citizen in this country really wants to vote, I mean they really have every desire and intention of voting in a state or federal election, there aren't any laws that they've passed, or are proposed, that will realistically prohibit that person from voting.

If you need an id, then get an id. Don't wait until 4 p.m. on election day. Go now.

If you have to work, check to see if there are laws in your state that require employers to release you from work with sufficient time to vote. Many states have these. Or plan to vote before or after work. Or get an absentee ballot ahead of time and vote.

I understand not everyone has been as fortunate as some of us in terms of employment, resources, etc... But if you really want to vote in this country, there isn't anything standing in your way, and there hasn't been anything proposed that will stand in your way.

Uh, huh.

And what exactly is the purpose of proposing road blocks to voting that weren't there before? Exactly what problem are we trying to solve besides getting more white Republicans in Congress?

 

[SJHovey]

Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

Uh, huh.

And what exactly is the purpose of proposing road blocks to voting that weren't there before? Exactly what problem are we trying to solve besides getting more white Republicans in Congress?

As I wrote before, I think these clowns who are proposing things like voter id's, limited voting hours, etc..., all have as their motive a "roadblock" to certain voters access to the polls. No doubt about it. But again, as I've tried to point out, they aren't real roadblocks, unless you let them be. I don't think most people, including minorities, let them be roadblocks. As I wrote in response to Priceless, when someone suggests that minorities won't be able to figure out how, or make the time, to vote, just because of these "roadblocks", I find that kind of insulting.

 

[Rover]

Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

If a citizen in this country really wants to vote, I mean they really have every desire and intention of voting in a state or federal election, there aren't any laws that they've passed, or are proposed, that will realistically prohibit that person from voting.

If you need an id, then get an id. Don't wait until 4 p.m. on election day. Go now.

If you have to work, check to see if there are laws in your state that require employers to release you from work with sufficient time to vote. Many states have these. Or plan to vote before or after work. Or get an absentee ballot ahead of time and vote.

I understand not everyone has been as fortunate as some of us in terms of employment, resources, etc... But if you really want to vote in this country, there isn't anything standing in your way, and there hasn't been anything proposed that will stand in your way.

I'm sorry but this argument lost in Pennsylvania because its unrealistic. In a perfect world, yes people should be able to get ID's but that depends on an efficient and fully functional state govt. The problem in PA is that they changed to ID standard during the election year and then said all IDs will be free at the DMV. Sounds good, right? Maybe, unless you've actually been to the DMV. People were taking time off at lunch and hopping the bus crosstown in Philly to go get their ID, or first thing in the morning, only to find 2 hour lines staring at them. That is voter discrimination in a nutshell. Whether by incompetence or design, these people are not being given a realistic chance to get a voter ID within a certain timeframe. Its no coincidence that Republican legislatures that tried this all put these rules in place within months of election days, be it primaries or general elections, while Dem legislatures gave people until the next election 2 years hence (RI). I have no problem with ID's, but you can't change the rules during the year of the election, nor can you put in place a process (relying on the timeliness of the DMV) that anybody with half a brain knows will fail.

 

[burd]

Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

As I wrote before, I think these clowns who are proposing things like voter id's, limited voting hours, etc..., all have as their motive a "roadblock" to certain voters access to the polls. No doubt about it. But again, as I've tried to point out, they aren't real roadblocks, unless you let them be. I don't think most people, including minorities, let them be roadblocks. As I wrote in response to Priceless, when someone suggests that minorities won't be able to figure out how, or make the time, to vote, just because of these "roadblocks", I find that kind of insulting.

You are a sensible guy, Hovey. Do you think these measures, if passed, will reduce the number of minority votes? Not theoretically, as in all reasonable people who want to vote should be willing and able to jump through the hoops, but in practice. Do you think the clowns who are proposing these measures are fools with their money or self serving pragmatists. Or something else?