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The New WCHA IV (2013-14): Unlocked and Cocked
- Thread starter gfmorris
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Re: The New WCHA IV (2013-14): Unlocked and Cocked
And just for the record, there was plenty of talk around at the CCHA league tourney at the end of last year that there would be more movement within a few years after the results of the first big shift were know and it was even speculated that the CCHA could indeed be reborn at some point. Over the past couple seasons, since the Big 6 became apparent, there have been many proposals. They even included one that made far too much sense to ever come to fruition.
Who did he say was shuffling? Did you hear the interview? Because when I spoke with him, we both agreed that there were likely to be more changes, but no teams were mentioned as having expressed interest in leaving the league. How many is "so many?" Who exactly are these teams? Please, give us all you've got from on record sources.
And just for the record, there was plenty of talk around at the CCHA league tourney at the end of last year that there would be more movement within a few years after the results of the first big shift were know and it was even speculated that the CCHA could indeed be reborn at some point. Over the past couple seasons, since the Big 6 became apparent, there have been many proposals. They even included one that made far too much sense to ever come to fruition.
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Squarebanks
New member
Re: The New WCHA IV (2013-14): Unlocked and Cocked
Let's just say that it was one that was much better based geographically and included members of the AHA, WCHA and CCHA. It would not have altered the NCHC and Big 6. If I recall correctly, in many ways it actually resembled what has been suggested by many fans regarding the westernmost AHA schools and the southernmost CCHA schools. Like I said, made way too much sense to ever actually happen.
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Re: The New WCHA IV (2013-14): Unlocked and Cocked
Freddie Attempts To Inject Reason And Logic In To The Discussion
Many of us will continue to look back fondly on the good-old-days of the CCHA and the oldWCHA. There's nothing wrong with that; hell, I still enjoy watching old reruns of "The Andy Griffith Show". But, as for TODAY, we ARE where we are.
With today's technology; rumors, gossip, gripes, pipe-dreams and flat-out lies are disseminated indiscriminately, and frequently take on lives of their own. Any moron with a smart-phone or a twitter account can toss out a few misspelled words, and "voila" his garbage becomes gospel.
Having said that, I will tell you what I believe. And this isn't coming from any inside information, just coming from my own observations through the filter of someone who has followed college hockey for over 40 years.
1. Attendance at conference tournaments has been on the decline (except in the oldWCHA) for years, and
2. The recent conference realignments has done nothing except hasten that decline.
3. Increased travel expenses ARE and WILL CONTINUE TO BE an issue for many schools. These 3 lead directly to:
4. There WILL be further shake-out/aftershocks from this realignment. How soon it may happen is anybody's guess, but it would be entirely silly to believe the present conference structures can stay intact over the long term. As they are not financially sustainable.
5. Any number of possible dominos may fall, setting off a chain reaction similar to Penn State's coming on board:
A. Miami and WMU get tired of travel expenses and seek some sort of relief, leaving the door open for Bemidji and Mankato to fill the void.
B. BG, with or without Ferris looks east to reduce travel expenses.
C. The Ivys pull away from ECAC and form their own six-team, auto-bid-eligible conference, leaving ECAC with spots to fill
D. Niagara, RMU and a couple other AH teams tire of the drag on the RPI/PWR caused by their conference's scholarship limits look west (see B) or at a fractured ECAC (see C).
I make NO predictions about which of these may come about first, but I sincerely believe some further realignment WILL take place in the VERY near future...certainly within 3 years.
One thing that remains constant, no matter which scenario sets off the next tumble. The nWCHA is highly vulnerable because of the extreme travel to Alaska and Alabama. I mean NO disrespect to any of those schools, and I don't pretend to have any solution to the problem...but the problem is REAL, and it won't go away.
Freddie Attempts To Inject Reason And Logic In To The Discussion
Many of us will continue to look back fondly on the good-old-days of the CCHA and the oldWCHA. There's nothing wrong with that; hell, I still enjoy watching old reruns of "The Andy Griffith Show". But, as for TODAY, we ARE where we are.
With today's technology; rumors, gossip, gripes, pipe-dreams and flat-out lies are disseminated indiscriminately, and frequently take on lives of their own. Any moron with a smart-phone or a twitter account can toss out a few misspelled words, and "voila" his garbage becomes gospel.
Having said that, I will tell you what I believe. And this isn't coming from any inside information, just coming from my own observations through the filter of someone who has followed college hockey for over 40 years.
1. Attendance at conference tournaments has been on the decline (except in the oldWCHA) for years, and
2. The recent conference realignments has done nothing except hasten that decline.
3. Increased travel expenses ARE and WILL CONTINUE TO BE an issue for many schools. These 3 lead directly to:
4. There WILL be further shake-out/aftershocks from this realignment. How soon it may happen is anybody's guess, but it would be entirely silly to believe the present conference structures can stay intact over the long term. As they are not financially sustainable.
5. Any number of possible dominos may fall, setting off a chain reaction similar to Penn State's coming on board:
A. Miami and WMU get tired of travel expenses and seek some sort of relief, leaving the door open for Bemidji and Mankato to fill the void.
B. BG, with or without Ferris looks east to reduce travel expenses.
C. The Ivys pull away from ECAC and form their own six-team, auto-bid-eligible conference, leaving ECAC with spots to fill
D. Niagara, RMU and a couple other AH teams tire of the drag on the RPI/PWR caused by their conference's scholarship limits look west (see B) or at a fractured ECAC (see C).
I make NO predictions about which of these may come about first, but I sincerely believe some further realignment WILL take place in the VERY near future...certainly within 3 years.
One thing that remains constant, no matter which scenario sets off the next tumble. The nWCHA is highly vulnerable because of the extreme travel to Alaska and Alabama. I mean NO disrespect to any of those schools, and I don't pretend to have any solution to the problem...but the problem is REAL, and it won't go away.
Shirtless Guy
Old Dirty Basterd
When is this going to happen?
Read the next to last paragraph.
RapidsCity
New member
Re: The New WCHA IV (2013-14): Unlocked and Cocked
Who's to say they'd oppose it? I don't know. It was an idea floated a couple seasons ago. It got shot down.
Who's to say they'd oppose it? I don't know. It was an idea floated a couple seasons ago. It got shot down.
Re: The New WCHA IV (2013-14): Unlocked and Cocked
Pink Pony seems to have some problems with reading comprehension. I believe I covered this in 5B.
perhaps........if..........I.........type.........more.........slow.........ly.......you.......may.........be........able..........to.........keep.......up.
Pink Pony seems to have some problems with reading comprehension. I believe I covered this in 5B.
perhaps........if..........I.........type.........more.........slow.........ly.......you.......may.........be........able..........to.........keep.......up.
manurespreader
Still upright
Re: The New WCHA IV (2013-14): Unlocked and Cocked
Imagine yourself an AD from the old WCHA. Say Mankato. If you go back, are you going to face the same issues you faced when you left?. Peg bradley dopes, the insufferable cc guys, North Dakota telling you what to do and not wanting to give you a say in it. etc. Are you going back to that without some sort of major change on their part?. Hard for me to imagine. The only way that happens is if you really can't make this work financially. Is your travel more now? maybe marginally. You don't pay to go to alaska now and you don't fly to Denver or CC any more. Attendance is much the same. It could be a wash.
Now what if you are the NMU or LSSU AD. yes travel is more. are you making more money.? Maybe not, but its not a lot different than the CCHA was and you get to play your closest rivals 4 times as league games which brings in money. If there is a reshuffle, will you benefit.? not likely.
How about Ferris. will you travel less?. A little, but if you join up with eastern teams it's likely more, not less financially, though it is less time consuming, and the bus rides would be just as long or longer, especially if lssu is not part of it.
So that leaves BG and UAH. I don't see UAH benefitting from the changes, though yes BG would stand to benefit greatly if they could get some of Atlantic hockey to join with them.
Now you are Miami or WMU. Yes travel is a lot more. But will you benefit any other way by switching again, and switching to what? It won't be ever as close as it was or as easy. So be careful what you wish for.
So my thoughts are, maybe it changes, but there will have to be some catalyst to make it happen. Something like fewer league games might be something to consider. Though non league games cost more as a general rule..
Imagine yourself an AD from the old WCHA. Say Mankato. If you go back, are you going to face the same issues you faced when you left?. Peg bradley dopes, the insufferable cc guys, North Dakota telling you what to do and not wanting to give you a say in it. etc. Are you going back to that without some sort of major change on their part?. Hard for me to imagine. The only way that happens is if you really can't make this work financially. Is your travel more now? maybe marginally. You don't pay to go to alaska now and you don't fly to Denver or CC any more. Attendance is much the same. It could be a wash.
Now what if you are the NMU or LSSU AD. yes travel is more. are you making more money.? Maybe not, but its not a lot different than the CCHA was and you get to play your closest rivals 4 times as league games which brings in money. If there is a reshuffle, will you benefit.? not likely.
How about Ferris. will you travel less?. A little, but if you join up with eastern teams it's likely more, not less financially, though it is less time consuming, and the bus rides would be just as long or longer, especially if lssu is not part of it.
So that leaves BG and UAH. I don't see UAH benefitting from the changes, though yes BG would stand to benefit greatly if they could get some of Atlantic hockey to join with them.
Now you are Miami or WMU. Yes travel is a lot more. But will you benefit any other way by switching again, and switching to what? It won't be ever as close as it was or as easy. So be careful what you wish for.
So my thoughts are, maybe it changes, but there will have to be some catalyst to make it happen. Something like fewer league games might be something to consider. Though non league games cost more as a general rule..
bigblue_dl
Armed
Re: The New WCHA IV (2013-14): Unlocked and Cocked
Pink Pony is either a very poorly thought out bit/troll account, or someone who struggles to button his own shirt.
Pink Pony is either a very poorly thought out bit/troll account, or someone who struggles to button his own shirt.
RapidsCity
New member
Re: The New WCHA IV (2013-14): Unlocked and Cocked
Comprehension is difficult when one's tongue is frozen to the window he's licking.
Comprehension is difficult when one's tongue is frozen to the window he's licking.
Re: The New WCHA IV (2013-14): Unlocked and Cocked
You do pay to go to Alaska. In the old CCHA, Fairbanks picked up most of the plane tickets (25 I believe), hotel and ground transportation. Anchorage had a lower number of plane tickets for the WCHA. Now teams get a set amount for the trip to Fairbanks, an amount to Anchorage and an amount to Huntsville. It is nowhere near the "reimburse the excess of your most expensive trip among the other 7" that was bandied about. In the old WCHA, it wasn't the big guys like North Dakota pushing the little guys around. There was a fairly equal balance between the bigger budgets and the smaller ones. North Dakota left, because without Minnesota & Wisconsin, it was afraid the little guys would be pushing their will on them.
And one additional home game against Michigan Tech hardly makes up the revenue lost with Michigan, MSU and the additional flights to Huntsville and Anchorage and the $20,000 increase in the cost of the Fairbanks trip.
You do pay to go to Alaska. In the old CCHA, Fairbanks picked up most of the plane tickets (25 I believe), hotel and ground transportation. Anchorage had a lower number of plane tickets for the WCHA. Now teams get a set amount for the trip to Fairbanks, an amount to Anchorage and an amount to Huntsville. It is nowhere near the "reimburse the excess of your most expensive trip among the other 7" that was bandied about. In the old WCHA, it wasn't the big guys like North Dakota pushing the little guys around. There was a fairly equal balance between the bigger budgets and the smaller ones. North Dakota left, because without Minnesota & Wisconsin, it was afraid the little guys would be pushing their will on them.
And one additional home game against Michigan Tech hardly makes up the revenue lost with Michigan, MSU and the additional flights to Huntsville and Anchorage and the $20,000 increase in the cost of the Fairbanks trip.
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Re: The New WCHA IV (2013-14): Unlocked and Cocked
Cannot speak about any other program's situation but the demise of the old CCHA and the re branding of the nWCHA has hurt Lake State financially. The Big 10 teams and Notre Dame were huge draws for home attendance and even schools like Western Michigan would bring a bump in attendance compared to the smaller and less known schools. Yes we had a less than mediocre coach running the program for far to long but even his dismissal and, if we're lucky, the hiring of a "brand" name coach will not bring back all the fans lost due to the re-organization of the conferences. Laker fans will learn to live with it though, but I'm sorry, even close regional rivals cannot bring back the excitement of what the "hated" Wolverines and their ilk brought to town when they played our Lakers.
Cannot speak about any other program's situation but the demise of the old CCHA and the re branding of the nWCHA has hurt Lake State financially. The Big 10 teams and Notre Dame were huge draws for home attendance and even schools like Western Michigan would bring a bump in attendance compared to the smaller and less known schools. Yes we had a less than mediocre coach running the program for far to long but even his dismissal and, if we're lucky, the hiring of a "brand" name coach will not bring back all the fans lost due to the re-organization of the conferences. Laker fans will learn to live with it though, but I'm sorry, even close regional rivals cannot bring back the excitement of what the "hated" Wolverines and their ilk brought to town when they played our Lakers.
Iwearpurple
Registered User
Re: The New WCHA IV (2013-14): Unlocked and Cocked
Putting a quality program on the ice will help attendance immensely. In Mankato, our attendance dropped this year from 3,655 per game to 3,447 per game. But that is not bad considering we did not have 2 games against Minnesota, 2 games against North Dakota and 2 games against Wisconsin. A new coach (successful) has been embraced by the community and it has shown at the ticket window. Our biggest draw was Ferris State, and that was before we knew they were becoming our "rivals".
If Lake State hires a new coach who gets involved with the community, improves the program, the fans should come back, but it may take time. We were lucky in Mankato, but it doesn't hurt to get to the NCAA, which we have now done twice in a row.
Now it wouldn't hurt if the whole league keeps improving also.
Putting a quality program on the ice will help attendance immensely. In Mankato, our attendance dropped this year from 3,655 per game to 3,447 per game. But that is not bad considering we did not have 2 games against Minnesota, 2 games against North Dakota and 2 games against Wisconsin. A new coach (successful) has been embraced by the community and it has shown at the ticket window. Our biggest draw was Ferris State, and that was before we knew they were becoming our "rivals".
If Lake State hires a new coach who gets involved with the community, improves the program, the fans should come back, but it may take time. We were lucky in Mankato, but it doesn't hurt to get to the NCAA, which we have now done twice in a row.
Now it wouldn't hurt if the whole league keeps improving also.
Seawolf Fan
New member
Re: The New WCHA IV (2013-14): Unlocked and Cocked
Where are the figures to back up what you purport in your post?
If you want to argue then put some facts behind your post.
The way you state things it's only your opinion not facts.
Edit: I forgot your "opinion" of 25 tickets. But that figure is wrong anyway.
The only figure I see in your post is "$20,000 increase" and nothing to back that figure up.
Where are the figures to back up what you purport in your post?
If you want to argue then put some facts behind your post.
The way you state things it's only your opinion not facts.
Edit: I forgot your "opinion" of 25 tickets. But that figure is wrong anyway.
Re: The New WCHA IV (2013-14): Unlocked and Cocked
Then what was the number of tickets that Fairbanks picked up prior to its move to the WCHA?
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uaafanblog
AKA - "Drop The Puck"
Re: The New WCHA IV (2013-14): Unlocked and Cocked
UAA subsidized travel for the same amount over their history in the oWCHA. There was a point where they and the league pretended that UAA has lessened the subsidy but fungibility of money was at the heart of it. Let's say that UAA spent 100,000 dollars a year subsidizing travel and got 100,000 in revenue sharing from the final five (these numbers are made up for an example). When they made it known they were paying less in travel; what they actually did was just spread it around more evenly to the new teams in the league and apparently got that smaller piece of the Final Five pie. Overall, it was pretty much a wash.
UAA subsidized travel for the same amount over their history in the oWCHA. There was a point where they and the league pretended that UAA has lessened the subsidy but fungibility of money was at the heart of it. Let's say that UAA spent 100,000 dollars a year subsidizing travel and got 100,000 in revenue sharing from the final five (these numbers are made up for an example). When they made it known they were paying less in travel; what they actually did was just spread it around more evenly to the new teams in the league and apparently got that smaller piece of the Final Five pie. Overall, it was pretty much a wash.
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