The New WCHA IV (2013-14): Unlocked and Cocked

[Jwilly48]

Re: The New WCHA IV (2013-14): Unlocked and Cocked

This pretty much effectively eliminates a lower seed from making the NCAA tournament with a late playoff run. It's much tougher to win three series than one series and 2 games.

That seems to be a positive to me. We want our best teams to represent us in the playoffs, no?

 

[Freddie]

Re: The New WCHA IV (2013-14): Unlocked and Cocked

"Shut up. Shut up. You had me at golf. You had me at golf."

My new tag line: "Freddie; Whipping Dead Horses Since 1955"

 

[Jwilly48]

Re: The New WCHA IV (2013-14): Unlocked and Cocked

It seems to me we had a pretty good sampling of fans willingness to travel to the tournament based on their team’s performance and distance to the location. Obviously, sample size alert; and this is based on what I saw, so it’s most likely flawed. I’m just giving my best guesstimate based on the most attendance I saw for a team at any point during the weekend. I certainly encourage others who were there to share their perception.

Teams in the immediate area:
Participating: Ferris – 3,500
Not Participating: N/A

Teams within half day’s drive:
Participating: Bowling Green – 500
Not Participating: Lake State – 20? (I seriously don’t recall see any LSSU fans, but I’m sure there were some)

Teams within a full day’s drive:
Participating: Minnesota St – 300
Not Participating: NMU, MTU, Bemidji, UAH – 100

Need a plane:
Participating: Alaska Anchorage – 50
Not Participating: Fairbanks - A couple?

I think the most important piece missing is how many fans would come from a team in the immediate area, that wasn’t participating. If the number isn’t at least a couple thousand than the neutral site idea may be in real trouble. Knowing many Ferris fans I believe that had Ferris lost on Friday, turnout for Saturday would have been embarrassing.

In terms of options for future tournaments I think you have:

1. Neutral sites – I think this option is far too dependent on one or two schools making it to the FF and playing in the championship game to provide any consistency in terms of attendance and revenue for the conference.
2. Highest seed hosts – Best attendance, best atmosphere, most cost efficient (not paying rental to neutral sites), and increases likelihood that the conference is represented by its best team.
3. Destination site – I think there are two options for this:

• Always host the tournament in Marquette, it is within a day’s drive of virtually the entire conference (sorry Alaska), it’s a conference city, even if NMU doesn’t make it, I’d be surprised if you didn’t still have 500 NMU fans to increase attendance. BGSU and MSM showed that teams participating would drive up to 8-10 hours and still bring 500+ fans. In a 4,000 seat arena this seems like a pretty good option, you could even record a few sellouts.
• Embrace the fact we have the only warm weather school in NCAA hockey and always have the thing at UAH. Attendance would almost certainly suffer; however with this option I think you switch to a 10 teams single-elimination tournament so every fan in the conference can plan on making their annual warm weather hockey voyage. The Frozen Four in Tampa was a great success, fans like warm weather, leverage this unique opportunity.

I believe the current option we are using will prove to be the least desirable over the long term, too much variability and relatively low upside. We probably had one of the better-case scenarios this year in GR, and while good, it wasn’t overwhelming. I also believe the WCHA seriously need to revisit the cost of tickets, nothing justifies $50 for championship game tickets. In my opinion they should have lowered the cost of lower bowl tickets to about $20 or $30 and only sold lower bowl tickets; instead you spread fans out in the upper deck and make the building look even emptier.

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: The New WCHA IV (2013-14): Unlocked and Cocked

I also believe the WCHA seriously need to revisit the cost of tickets, nothing justifies $50 for championship game tickets. In my opinion they should have lowered the cost of lower bowl tickets to about $20 or $30 and only sold lower bowl tickets; instead you spread fans out in the upper deck and make the building look even emptier.

Yeah, but if enough people paid the $50 to sit in the lower bowl, then it's all about the money and not necessarily looking good for TV. Only positive outcome of lower ticket prices from the league's standpoint, is if that causes enough of an increase in attendance to offset the lower prices.

Highest seed hosting, even though I like the idea in principle, is quite unlikely to happen. Aside from the obvious logistical issues of getting everyone (teams and visiting fans) to small towns/cities with small airports at the last minute, even the AHA has their Final Four event at a neutral site, and the WCHA would look like a lesser league if they didn't do the same as every other conference.

That said, I think the X as a venue is going to be a non-starter once the initial four years of the nWCHA tournament deal are up. I would keep GRR for now, and start examining other options.

 

[Seawolf Fan]

Re: The New WCHA IV (2013-14): Unlocked and Cocked

$50 tickets may work for the diehard fan.
Joe Dokes with a wife and 3 kids probably isn't coming.
Add in a 4 hour drive each direction. Are we packing a picnic lunch?
Alaska has a fairly high cost of living and maybe you label me a cheapskate but $50 a seat?
A $7 beer and $3 for a dog.....yes I saw something about $2 beers
The guys sitting around in suits knocking down $100 grand plus setting $50 a seat prices in venues that seat 10,000 plus are killing the sport.

 

[Freddie]

Re: The New WCHA IV (2013-14): Unlocked and Cocked

My mind keeps coming back to Chicago as the best long-term option. Yes, I know there's stuff wrong with it, but there's also plenty that's right.

Four hours driving time from Ferris or BG. 10 hours from Huntsville or Bemidji. 6-7 hours for everybody else (except the Alaskas)
Lots of direct flights from just about ANYwhere in the world, with 2 major airports to choose from.
A large metro population (about 10 mil) that certainly MUST contain lots of alumni, PLUS a bunch of other hockey fans.

My quick search shows over 90 ice rinks in the Chicagoland metro area. Sure, most are tiny community rinks, but certainly there must be ONE that fits our size needs. In the right size building (say 4-7000), supply will be more in balance with demand, and nobody will crab about paying a premium price.

Sometimes I think we focus TOO much attention on the attendance of students. While I LOVE the spirit and enthusiasm they bring, let's face it. The average college student doesn't have the time OR the money to travel anywhere beyond his immediate backyard, and what limited resources he/she has are (at this time of the year) more likely to be spent on a spring-break trip to some warm weather climate. Yes, there are those total die hards who will pile 8 into the same car and same hotel room, but they're going anyhow, even if they have to drive around or across Lake Michigan to do so. At the other end of the spectrum are the 'high-rollers' among your season ticket holders...guess what?...they're going anyway, no matter if it's across the street or across the country.

It's the people 'in-between' that make the difference. Grand Rapids is a nice place, so is St Paul. Every sports fan ought to visit Green Bay once in their lifetime, but none of these places are 'destinations' for anything OTHER than the event. Dad and his buddies are MUCH more likely to get momma's OK to make such a trip if the wives are invited along to spend a day shopping and take in a show. Chicago is one of a handful of cities in the USA that can be such a destination...and its within one day's travel from any of us.

I'd be willing to bet that every one of our schools has a Chicagoland chapter of their alumni association. They'll use an event like this to socialize, network and re-live the 'good-ol-days'. Put this all together, and I truly believe it would work.

 

[gfmorris]

Re: The New WCHA IV (2013-14): Unlocked and Cocked

I won't lie: I have outlined a five-day, ten-team, two-games-a-day tournament that we can call the Final Nine. 7-10 and 8-9 Wednesday, re-seed to play 1-2 Thursday (gives them Friday off), other two qtrs Friday, semis Saturday, consolation (1 OT, shootout) and final games on Sunday night. It's an improbable thing, but it's a fun thought exercise.

1. Teams 7-10 would have to win four times to represent the league in the NCAAs. It keeps the bad teams out but leaves the chance that one will just go streaking — and what a story would that be!
2. Gets the good teams in town on Wednesday to play Thursday — whets the appetite of the fans by getting them in for Thursday, with Friday as a golf day.
3. Puts the competitive qtrs on Friday, when more people will be in town. 3-6 would have to win three games in three nights to make the NCAAs.
4. Plays a consolation game for PWR help for the semifinal losers (i.e., a bump for 1-2 if upset on Saturday).

It's ****ed unlikely, and my athletic department may kill me for suggesting it, but one of you gave me the idea, and now ... well ... y'all know how I am.

GFM

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: The New WCHA IV (2013-14): Unlocked and Cocked

My mind keeps coming back to Chicago as the best long-term option. Yes, I know there's stuff wrong with it, but there's also plenty that's right.

Four hours driving time from Ferris or BG. 10 hours from Huntsville or Bemidji. 6-7 hours for everybody else (except the Alaskas)
Lots of direct flights from just about ANYwhere in the world, with 2 major airports to choose from.
A large metro population (about 10 mil) that certainly MUST contain lots of alumni, PLUS a bunch of other hockey fans.

My quick search shows over 90 ice rinks in the Chicagoland metro area. Sure, most are tiny community rinks, but certainly there must be ONE that fits our size needs. In the right size building (say 4-7000), supply will be more in balance with demand, and nobody will crab about paying a premium price.

Sometimes I think we focus TOO much attention on the attendance of students. While I LOVE the spirit and enthusiasm they bring, let's face it. The average college student doesn't have the time OR the money to travel anywhere beyond his immediate backyard, and what limited resources he/she has are (at this time of the year) more likely to be spent on a spring-break trip to some warm weather climate. Yes, there are those total die hards who will pile 8 into the same car and same hotel room, but they're going anyhow, even if they have to drive around or across Lake Michigan to do so. At the other end of the spectrum are the 'high-rollers' among your season ticket holders...guess what?...they're going anyway, no matter if it's across the street or across the country.

It's the people 'in-between' that make the difference. Grand Rapids is a nice place, so is St Paul. Every sports fan ought to visit Green Bay once in their lifetime, but none of these places are 'destinations' for anything OTHER than the event. Dad and his buddies are MUCH more likely to get momma's OK to make such a trip if the wives are invited along to spend a day shopping and take in a show. Chicago is one of a handful of cities in the USA that can be such a destination...and its within one day's travel from any of us.

I'd be willing to bet that every one of our schools has a Chicagoland chapter of their alumni association. They'll use an event like this to socialize, network and re-live the 'good-ol-days'. Put this all together, and I truly believe it would work.

I think you may have the right idea. Allstate Arena, where the AHL Chicago Wolves play, was discussed a year or two ago. It seats 16,500-ish for hockey, but I imagine they could curtain off the upper deck like most large arenas.

 

[Nosferatu]

Re: The New WCHA IV (2013-14): Unlocked and Cocked

I like the GFM plan with each school getting a shot to host on rotation basis. I'd rather spend my meager wages in a WCHA town than a larger town that has never heard of you (Happens to LSSU all the time). I'm sure I can find out the best place to eat, sleep and drink (not necessarily in that order) from the hosts via forum/internet,...

Venue size a problem? Housing? not for those that get the tickets/rooms early. Demand for product; what a concept;

Alaska? let them host as well, just not in back to back years (no offence guys).

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: The New WCHA IV (2013-14): Unlocked and Cocked

I'm with you on they have to sell enough tickets to offset the lower prices but I think they might, because of how high they currently are. Especially considering the casual and local fans. 4 tickets to Saturday's WCHA Finals would've cost $200, no local hockey fan without a rooting interest in the game is taking their family; especially when they can attend an AHL game the following weekend for $80.

Yeah, that's ridiculous. A family of four can get tickets to a Wings game for $200. nWCHA needs to come up with a family package. Something like $80-100 gets you four tickets, four hot dogs or pizza slices, and four sodas. That should at least get some extra butts in the upper bowl seats.

 

[Squarebanks]

My mind keeps coming back to Chicago as the best long-term option. Yes, I know there's stuff wrong with it, but there's also plenty that's right.

Four hours driving time from Ferris or BG. 10 hours from Huntsville or Bemidji. 6-7 hours for everybody else (except the Alaskas)
Lots of direct flights from just about ANYwhere in the world, with 2 major airports to choose from.
A large metro population (about 10 mil) that certainly MUST contain lots of alumni, PLUS a bunch of other hockey fans.

My quick search shows over 90 ice rinks in the Chicagoland metro area. Sure, most are tiny community rinks, but certainly there must be ONE that fits our size needs. In the right size building (say 4-7000), supply will be more in balance with demand, and nobody will crab about paying a premium price.

Sometimes I think we focus TOO much attention on the attendance of students. While I LOVE the spirit and enthusiasm they bring, let's face it. The average college student doesn't have the time OR the money to travel anywhere beyond his immediate backyard, and what limited resources he/she has are (at this time of the year) more likely to be spent on a spring-break trip to some warm weather climate. Yes, there are those total die hards who will pile 8 into the same car and same hotel room, but they're going anyhow, even if they have to drive around or across Lake Michigan to do so. At the other end of the spectrum are the 'high-rollers' among your season ticket holders...guess what?...they're going anyway, no matter if it's across the street or across the country.

It's the people 'in-between' that make the difference. Grand Rapids is a nice place, so is St Paul. Every sports fan ought to visit Green Bay once in their lifetime, but none of these places are 'destinations' for anything OTHER than the event. Dad and his buddies are MUCH more likely to get momma's OK to make such a trip if the wives are invited along to spend a day shopping and take in a show. Chicago is one of a handful of cities in the USA that can be such a destination...and its within one day's travel from any of us.

I'd be willing to bet that every one of our schools has a Chicagoland chapter of their alumni association. They'll use an event like this to socialize, network and re-live the 'good-ol-days'. Put this all together, and I truly believe it would work.

I keep beating a dead horse, but Chicago and the Twin Cities are the two best long-term alternatives for this event. And Chicago makes sense for all the reasons you just outlined.

If not those two, then start rotating it through the campus locations.

 

[aparch]

I think you may have the right idea. Allstate Arena, where the AHL Chicago Wolves play, was discussed a year or two ago. It seats 16,500-ish for hockey, but I imagine they could curtain off the upper deck like most large arenas.

No curtain exists at the Allstate Arena. Not even when the Sky (WNBA) play. The only downside is the lower bowl was made for basketball/concerts and is shallow for hockey.

I've mentioned the perks/drawbacks prior.

The smallest venue would be the Sears Centre in Hoffman Mistakes... Err Estates. It's 9500 but in a horseshoe shape. Better sight lines than the Allstate, but less to do on the weekend by being so far removed from public transportation.

Other than those two, and the United Center, the rest are all park rec rinks that maybe could seat 2000 tops.

If some schools wanted to, maybe they could "test drive" the Chicagoland market for a Christmas tournament. Notre Dame held their Shillelagh Tournament there for a few years with mediocre attendance (but almost no marketing in the Chicagoland area).


Partnering with the Wolves for a double header may be possible, but it's going to take a lot of effort to work with them. It's been years since a college team played at the Allstate, last being Wisconsin. I've heard from a couple Wolves fans that they wish more schools would play a game there.

 

[Freddie]

Re: The New WCHA IV (2013-14): Unlocked and Cocked

What ever happened to the building that Illinois-Chicago used to play in?

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: The New WCHA IV (2013-14): Unlocked and Cocked

The smallest venue would be the Sears Centre in Hoffman Mistakes... Err Estates. It's 9500 but in a horseshoe shape. Better sight lines than the Allstate, but less to do on the weekend by being so far removed from public transportation.

There's a Cabela's next store - this place is totally in the realm of the nWCHA!

But yeah, no L stop near the Sears. People could stay in Elgin maybe? But that would still require a rental car or taxi to get to the arena.

What ever happened to the building that Illinois-Chicago used to play in?

I read they took the ice plant out years ago.

 

[Bill]

Re: The New WCHA IV (2013-14): Unlocked and Cocked

There's a Cabela's next store - this place is totally in the realm of the nWCHA!

But yeah, no L stop near the Sears. People could stay in Elgin maybe? But that would still require a rental car or taxi to get to the arena.



I read they took the ice plant out years ago.

Woodfield Mall is probably about 10 miles or so east of Sears Centre. It's a very large mall, lots of hotels and restaurants in the area. An IKEA close to it. But yes, you would need a car to get around.

 

[aparch]

There's a Cabela's next store - this place is totally in the realm of the nWCHA!

Haha. Indeed that would be a good partner for the league.

But yeah, no L stop near the Sears. People could stay in Elgin maybe?

Not unless we're hiring BigBlue for security. Some parts of Elgin are okay, mostly West along Randall Road. East and West Dundee and Carpentersville don't have much, and are similar to the East side of Elgin. For the non-locals/not-familiar, Elgin is a milder Joliet.

What ever happened to the building that Illinois-Chicago used to play in?

I read they took the ice plant out years ago.

Yep, long gone. I went with friends to a Sky game when they were there still (we had free tickets, stop judging me) and you could see how the UIC Pavilion was built for hockey, but modified for basketball.

UIC was a casualty of the Bulls being popular, and the Hawks sucking. Sadly, even with two recent Stanley Cups, the Bulls still are more popular within the city. The suburbs have Hawks fever, and youth hockey is popular, but HS, The Steel (USHL), and minor hockey aren't seeing the popularity bump. The ECHL team in Hoffman Estates folded after one year and the Wolves are losing season ticket holders.

It's not a hockey town, it's a "Blackhawks or go **ck yourself" town.

 

[aparch]

Re: The New WCHA IV (2013-14): Unlocked and Cocked

On the flip side of my post, I think if there was a college hockey presence in this area, it would help grow the sport. NIU plays ACHA in the far burbs, but they're not playing on the NCAA level. I look forward to the Frozen Four coming to the UC, and hope more college hockey events come to the area to draw interest of the kids.

It's just right now, there is a vast wasteland between youth and AHL/NHL in the area.

 

[Jwilly48]

Re: The New WCHA IV (2013-14): Unlocked and Cocked

I keep beating a dead horse, but Chicago and the Twin Cities are the two best long-term alternatives for this event. And Chicago makes sense for all the reasons you just outlined.

If not those two, then start rotating it through the campus locations.

If Chicago had an arena that was less than 10k in the downtown area, or on the 'L' I think it would be a more viable option. I like the idea of Chicago, but I'm not sure how well it works in reality. I don't really see Minneapolis being in the same boat though, while it may be the center of the hockey universe it's not the center of our conference. In fact I would make the argument that it's one of the harder cities for conference teams to get to, especially if you consider Chicago as an alternative (and it's airports).

[table="width: 500"]
[tr]
[td][/td]
[td]Minneapolis[/td]
[td]Grand Rapids[/td]
[td]Chicago[/td]
[td]Marquette[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Alabama Huntsville[/td]
[td]15[/td]
[td]10[/td]
[td]9[/td]
[td]15[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Bemidji[/td]
[td]3.5[/td]
[td]12.5[/td]
[td]10[/td]
[td]7[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Bowling Green[/td]
[td]10[/td]
[td]3[/td]
[td]4[/td]
[td]8[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Ferris State[/td]
[td]10[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[td]3.5[/td]
[td]6[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Lake State[/td]
[td]9[/td]
[td]4.5[/td]
[td]7[/td]
[td]3[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Michigan Tech[/td]
[td]6[/td]
[td]8.5[/td]
[td]7[/td]
[td]2[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Minnesota St[/td]
[td]1.5[/td]
[td]9.5[/td]
[td]7[/td]
[td]8[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Northern Michigan[/td]
[td]7[/td]
[td]6.5[/td]
[td]6.5[/td]
[td]0[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Average[/td]
[td]7.75[/td]
[td]6.9[/td]
[td]6.75[/td]
[td]6.1[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Extreme Drives (8+)[/td]
[td]4[/td]
[td]4[/td]
[td]2[/td]
[td]1[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: The New WCHA IV (2013-14): Unlocked and Cocked

Jwilly, where do you get 9 hrs for Houghton to Minneapolis?

 

[Freddie]

Re: The New WCHA IV (2013-14): Unlocked and Cocked

I am relieved that we have been talking about Chicago for most of the afternoon and haven't heard from some moron suggesting we play the tournament outdoors at Wrigley Field, on Lake Michigan right off the Navy Pier or on the Chicago River. It renews my faith in the cognitive capacity of forum posters.