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The new WCHA is dead pt2
- Thread starter moose97
- Start date
Every team is different I am sure, but I can confirm that the subsidies are significant. I would bet that each Alaska team is paying around $150K annually in-conference and probably more if they get non-conference teams to travel there.
AMC
Registered User
Re: The new WCHA is dead pt2
Just because the Alaskas are willing to pay doesn't mean that the teams they would be paying have to accept the payments and travel to Alaska. They don't like making the trips. So they shouldn't have to.
Just because the Alaskas are willing to pay doesn't mean that the teams they would be paying have to accept the payments and travel to Alaska. They don't like making the trips. So they shouldn't have to.
Sol Diablo
Active member
lakersparty
New member
Re: The new WCHA is dead pt2
Crawford was Lake State’s athletic director at one point. I’m sure he has more insight than most about the Alaska subsidies.
Crawford was Lake State’s athletic director at one point. I’m sure he has more insight than most about the Alaska subsidies.
Sol Diablo
Active member
Re: The new WCHA is dead pt2
ASU refused to give NCHA the subsidy when they asked for it, killed the conference joining deal. Subsidies in college sports are usually given by Division 1 teams to lower division teams to bring them to the division 1 site to get beat up. If you think about it, cold weather teams should subsidize warm weather teams to travel to lousy weather. I mean resorts in the Caribbean don't pay Canadians to come down there in the winter....
But in the end teams have the right to refuse to pay the costs to travel. It may hurt them nationally in the long run, as statistics show the high growth to be outside the current states, but help them financially in the short term.
ASU refused to give NCHA the subsidy when they asked for it, killed the conference joining deal. Subsidies in college sports are usually given by Division 1 teams to lower division teams to bring them to the division 1 site to get beat up. If you think about it, cold weather teams should subsidize warm weather teams to travel to lousy weather. I mean resorts in the Caribbean don't pay Canadians to come down there in the winter....
But in the end teams have the right to refuse to pay the costs to travel. It may hurt them nationally in the long run, as statistics show the high growth to be outside the current states, but help them financially in the short term.
Sean Pickett
2009 NCAA Champions
Re: The new WCHA is dead pt2
As for the UAA and UA_ subsidies I've read a lot here about they do or don't pay a lot, but no one has bothered to post any numbers. I have the NCAA financials for UAA and UA_ from 2010 through 2018 and I was planning to wait until I obtained the 2019 financials (in the next few months) but I've decided to post what I have because of all the back and forth. Here are the reported guarantees paid out by UAA and UA_ for 2009-10 through 2017-18:
<img src="https://www.buhockeyarchives.com/Charts/UAA-UAFguarantees.png">
The guarantees amount is the total amount paid by each school, the teams column is how many visiting teams they hosted (including an exhibition game each season, but not each other) and the average column is the average each team got if the payouts were equal across all teams. I also look at the reported guarantees received by each of the other nWCHA teams between 2010 and 2018:
<img src="https://www.buhockeyarchives.com/Charts/WCHAguarantees.png">
As can be seen, before the nWCHA was formed the other 7 schools reported no or less guarantees revenue than the average guarantees paid out by the 2 Alaska schools. Since the nWCHA was formed that has changed. Lake Superior and Northern Michigan have reported higher guarantees revenue than the average paid out by the Alaska schools all 5 seasons, while Michigan Tech has done so for 4 of the 5 seasons. Bemidji State has done so for 3 seasons, Bowling Green for and Ferris State for 2, with Minnesota State only 1 season, but I'm missing information for them for 2017 & 2018.
This limited information indicates that the schools are receiving more from the Alaska schools in the nWCHA than they did in CCHA/oWCHA. However, they only way to get the actual numbers is to request the actual documents through FOIA punblic records requests.
Sean
So why did they agree to have UAA, UA_ (and UAH) in the nWCHA? Or did they think that travel wouldn't be involved and they finally realized that travel is involved?
As for the UAA and UA_ subsidies I've read a lot here about they do or don't pay a lot, but no one has bothered to post any numbers. I have the NCAA financials for UAA and UA_ from 2010 through 2018 and I was planning to wait until I obtained the 2019 financials (in the next few months) but I've decided to post what I have because of all the back and forth. Here are the reported guarantees paid out by UAA and UA_ for 2009-10 through 2017-18:
<img src="https://www.buhockeyarchives.com/Charts/UAA-UAFguarantees.png">
The guarantees amount is the total amount paid by each school, the teams column is how many visiting teams they hosted (including an exhibition game each season, but not each other) and the average column is the average each team got if the payouts were equal across all teams. I also look at the reported guarantees received by each of the other nWCHA teams between 2010 and 2018:
<img src="https://www.buhockeyarchives.com/Charts/WCHAguarantees.png">
As can be seen, before the nWCHA was formed the other 7 schools reported no or less guarantees revenue than the average guarantees paid out by the 2 Alaska schools. Since the nWCHA was formed that has changed. Lake Superior and Northern Michigan have reported higher guarantees revenue than the average paid out by the Alaska schools all 5 seasons, while Michigan Tech has done so for 4 of the 5 seasons. Bemidji State has done so for 3 seasons, Bowling Green for and Ferris State for 2, with Minnesota State only 1 season, but I'm missing information for them for 2017 & 2018.
This limited information indicates that the schools are receiving more from the Alaska schools in the nWCHA than they did in CCHA/oWCHA. However, they only way to get the actual numbers is to request the actual documents through FOIA punblic records requests.
Sean
Sol Diablo
Active member
Re: The new WCHA is dead pt2
I'm off on a tangent but.......Excellent 2009 National Championship game! Arguably the best I ever watched!
So why did they agree to have UAA, UA_ (and UAH) in the nWCHA? Or did they think that travel wouldn't be involved and they finally realized that travel is involved?
As for the UAA and UA_ subsidies I've read a lot here about they do or don't pay a lot, but no one has bothered to post any numbers. I have the NCAA financials for UAA and UA_ from 2010 through 2018 and I was planning to wait until I obtained the 2019 financials (in the next few months) but I've decided to post what I have because of all the back and forth. Here are the reported guarantees paid out by UAA and UA_ for 2009-10 through 2017-18:
<img src="https://www.buhockeyarchives.com/Charts/UAA-UAFguarantees.png">
The guarantees amount is the total amount paid by each school, the teams column is how many visiting teams they hosted (including an exhibition game each season, but not each other) and the average column is the average each team got if the payouts were equal across all teams. I also look at the reported guarantees received by each of the other nWCHA teams between 2010 and 2018:
<img src="https://www.buhockeyarchives.com/Charts/WCHAguarantees.png">
As can be seen, before the nWCHA was formed the other 7 schools reported no or less guarantees revenue than the average guarantees paid out by the 2 Alaska schools. Since the nWCHA was formed that has changed. Lake Superior and Northern Michigan have reported higher guarantees revenue than the average paid out by the Alaska schools all 5 seasons, while Michigan Tech has done so for 4 of the 5 seasons. Bemidji State has done so for 3 seasons, Bowling Green for and Ferris State for 2, with Minnesota State only 1 season, but I'm missing information for them for 2017 & 2018.
This limited information indicates that the schools are receiving more from the Alaska schools in the nWCHA than they did in CCHA/oWCHA. However, they only way to get the actual numbers is to request the actual documents through FOIA punblic records requests.
Sean
I'm off on a tangent but.......Excellent 2009 National Championship game! Arguably the best I ever watched!
FadeToBlack&Gold
8647
Re: The new WCHA is dead pt2
There is a lot more behind the financial aspect of this than many think. For instance, the next school facing serious budget issues after the Alaska campuses is Lake State. IIRC, undergrad enrollment there is now below 2,000 students and continues falling a bit each year.
There is a lot more behind the financial aspect of this than many think. For instance, the next school facing serious budget issues after the Alaska campuses is Lake State. IIRC, undergrad enrollment there is now below 2,000 students and continues falling a bit each year.
moose97
New member
Re: The new WCHA is dead pt2
No it doesn't. Regardless of what the *exact* dollar figure is, travel to Alaska is a nightmare for student athletes. Let's, for argument say that the subsidy equals the highest other road trip. That's not what I was told, but let's go with it. 90+% of the non-Alaska road trips, a team leaves Wed night, and arrives sometime Thursday. For an Alaska trip? Miss an additional day of classes, leaving Wednesday morning. UA_ and UAA say, "we do that every road trip weekend!" So? Not our problem. I'm sorry, but I'm seriously sick and tired of listening to you guys ***** and moan. Can we just fast forward a year or dump you now?
lakersparty
New member
That I believe is why Lake State is pushing for an annual game in Soo, Canada. They want to draw in more students from Canada.
mmf
Nanook Nation
Re: The new WCHA is dead pt2
Great info, thanks for all the leg work. The nCCHA folks have already moved on. They don’t care about the numbers, especially if it doesn’t support the narrative. And as always with this type of analysis, the info is only as good as the data and there are many underlying caveats here I’m sure. I find this very interesting (that's sad, I know).
Great info, thanks for all the leg work. The nCCHA folks have already moved on. They don’t care about the numbers, especially if it doesn’t support the narrative. And as always with this type of analysis, the info is only as good as the data and there are many underlying caveats here I’m sure. I find this very interesting (that's sad, I know).
Sol Diablo
Active member
Re: The new WCHA is dead pt2
Too bad your team won't be coming to Tempe to play ASU, way too rugged of a road trip for your student athletes.
Planes, no trains and automobiles: ASU men’s hockey team gives phrase ‘tough road series’ new meaning
By Victoria Stibrik/Cronkite News | Friday, Feb. 21, 2020
TEMPE – Two continents. Ten states. It’s tough being the lone Division I men’s hockey program in the Southwest.
That’s the fate of Arizona State, which started its schedule with five exhibition games in Beijing, China, and ends it in Madison, Wisconsin, for games today and Saturday before postseason play begins.
Flying might not seem like a big deal but it can impact the health of college athletes who are asked to perform in a different time zone after long hours on cramped flights.
“It does take a toll on your body in terms of getting adjusted,” said Liane Blyn, director of sports performance for ASU Olympic sports. “Physically, traveling across time zones is tough on any athlete.”
Traveling by plane in general is a process. Start with the packing and security checks and the sitting and waiting, and that’s all before getting on the plane. Once aboard, add turbulence and crying children and a lack of proper personal space.
For the ASU men’s hockey team, it’s just another weekend in a season that they spent traveling across multiple time zones to play at schools like Brown University in Providence, Rhode Island, and Clarkson University, which is located in the Upstate New York town of Potsdam, snug against the Canadian border.
Junior forward Dominic Garcia said he usually does mobility exercises with Blyn before flights to make sitting on the plane a little more tolerable. During the flight, he makes sure to stay hydrated and to “eat somewhat healthy.” Garcia indulges in almonds, protein bars provided by Blyn and, of course, pretzels. But no junk food.
Once the players land and eat dinner, they go through a mandatory mobility and stretching session to work out the kinks.
“Things to try and loosen us up, and just so we’re not as tight and as sluggish for the next day for practice, or in some cases, we just have pregame skate,” Garcia said.
Dealing with flights, bus rides and a body clock that’s off kilter isn’t the end of it. Players are students, too, with assignments to complete, papers to write and tests to take. They take homework with them and do it on the plane or whenever they get a chance during the trip.
“Sometimes it feels like your whole time is spent doing homework or studying for an exam,” Garcia said.
Tests can be even more complicated.
“My freshman year, I took one at the University of Nebraska-Omaha’s campus in their student center,” Garcia said. “Sometimes players will go to wherever on the other team’s campus and take their tests there with an actual proctor.”
Meanwhile, the coaches and athletic staff are planning to make the experience as easy and healthful as possible.
For instance, Blyn said it is often more beneficial to the players’ recovery if they are able to sleep in a little more and take a later flight rather than getting up early to make the cross-country trek again.
“I think this year has been more of a struggle …” Garcia said. “So, whether we’re at home or we’re away, we haven’t had a break in it seems like forever.”
Graphic by Emma Fernandez/Cronkite News
All the traveling brings on mental fatigue along with physical exhaustion, assistant coach Mike Field said, and if he’s tired, he knows his players must really be hitting the wall.
When athletes are fatigued, they might not be willing to add more weight or do one more repetition when lifting, he added.
“But I think our guys are pretty good about pushing through that stuff,” Field said.
It is more important that players are in tune with their bodies and know their own needs because “there’s no one-size-fits-all” when it comes to an athlete’s health, Blyn said.
While many of ASU’s players have experienced heavy travel while competing in junior hockey leagues, it hardly compares to what the Sun Devils face as an independent program located in the Southwest.
“Not like this at all,” Garcia said of the junior hockey travel. “The longest was a 4 1/2-hour drive.”
Surprisingly, the Sun Devils don’t seem to mind sacrificing sleep or going through the airport rigmarole to sit for five hours on a flight because it means playing high-caliber hockey against the best competition.
And ASU has done that well enough to be a consensus Top 10 in the national rankings for the first time in program history.
“I would say, for the most part, myself included, that we all like traveling,” Garcia said. “It’s nice to play in other college arenas and their crowds and things like that.”
The ASU men’s hockey team is on the road for the last time in the regular season with games at the University of Wisconsin Friday and Saturday.
Too bad your team won't be coming to Tempe to play ASU, way too rugged of a road trip for your student athletes.
Planes, no trains and automobiles: ASU men’s hockey team gives phrase ‘tough road series’ new meaning
By Victoria Stibrik/Cronkite News | Friday, Feb. 21, 2020
TEMPE – Two continents. Ten states. It’s tough being the lone Division I men’s hockey program in the Southwest.
That’s the fate of Arizona State, which started its schedule with five exhibition games in Beijing, China, and ends it in Madison, Wisconsin, for games today and Saturday before postseason play begins.
Flying might not seem like a big deal but it can impact the health of college athletes who are asked to perform in a different time zone after long hours on cramped flights.
“It does take a toll on your body in terms of getting adjusted,” said Liane Blyn, director of sports performance for ASU Olympic sports. “Physically, traveling across time zones is tough on any athlete.”
Traveling by plane in general is a process. Start with the packing and security checks and the sitting and waiting, and that’s all before getting on the plane. Once aboard, add turbulence and crying children and a lack of proper personal space.
For the ASU men’s hockey team, it’s just another weekend in a season that they spent traveling across multiple time zones to play at schools like Brown University in Providence, Rhode Island, and Clarkson University, which is located in the Upstate New York town of Potsdam, snug against the Canadian border.
Junior forward Dominic Garcia said he usually does mobility exercises with Blyn before flights to make sitting on the plane a little more tolerable. During the flight, he makes sure to stay hydrated and to “eat somewhat healthy.” Garcia indulges in almonds, protein bars provided by Blyn and, of course, pretzels. But no junk food.
Once the players land and eat dinner, they go through a mandatory mobility and stretching session to work out the kinks.
“Things to try and loosen us up, and just so we’re not as tight and as sluggish for the next day for practice, or in some cases, we just have pregame skate,” Garcia said.
Dealing with flights, bus rides and a body clock that’s off kilter isn’t the end of it. Players are students, too, with assignments to complete, papers to write and tests to take. They take homework with them and do it on the plane or whenever they get a chance during the trip.
“Sometimes it feels like your whole time is spent doing homework or studying for an exam,” Garcia said.
Tests can be even more complicated.
“My freshman year, I took one at the University of Nebraska-Omaha’s campus in their student center,” Garcia said. “Sometimes players will go to wherever on the other team’s campus and take their tests there with an actual proctor.”
Meanwhile, the coaches and athletic staff are planning to make the experience as easy and healthful as possible.
For instance, Blyn said it is often more beneficial to the players’ recovery if they are able to sleep in a little more and take a later flight rather than getting up early to make the cross-country trek again.
“I think this year has been more of a struggle …” Garcia said. “So, whether we’re at home or we’re away, we haven’t had a break in it seems like forever.”
Graphic by Emma Fernandez/Cronkite News
All the traveling brings on mental fatigue along with physical exhaustion, assistant coach Mike Field said, and if he’s tired, he knows his players must really be hitting the wall.
When athletes are fatigued, they might not be willing to add more weight or do one more repetition when lifting, he added.
“But I think our guys are pretty good about pushing through that stuff,” Field said.
It is more important that players are in tune with their bodies and know their own needs because “there’s no one-size-fits-all” when it comes to an athlete’s health, Blyn said.
While many of ASU’s players have experienced heavy travel while competing in junior hockey leagues, it hardly compares to what the Sun Devils face as an independent program located in the Southwest.
“Not like this at all,” Garcia said of the junior hockey travel. “The longest was a 4 1/2-hour drive.”
Surprisingly, the Sun Devils don’t seem to mind sacrificing sleep or going through the airport rigmarole to sit for five hours on a flight because it means playing high-caliber hockey against the best competition.
And ASU has done that well enough to be a consensus Top 10 in the national rankings for the first time in program history.
“I would say, for the most part, myself included, that we all like traveling,” Garcia said. “It’s nice to play in other college arenas and their crowds and things like that.”
The ASU men’s hockey team is on the road for the last time in the regular season with games at the University of Wisconsin Friday and Saturday.
mmf
Nanook Nation
Re: The new WCHA is dead pt2
Salty Much? Follow along. What is the next excuse? “Travel cost”…nope. “Pairwise hit”…hope. “Lost class time”…sure, that’s it. You don’t have to get your panties in a wad.
Salty Much? Follow along. What is the next excuse? “Travel cost”…nope. “Pairwise hit”…hope. “Lost class time”…sure, that’s it. You don’t have to get your panties in a wad.
Sol Diablo
Active member
Re: The new WCHA is dead pt2
Maybe he should follow his own advice he gave earlier.....
moose97 moose97 is offline
Registered User
moose97's AvatarJoin Date
Aug 1999
Location
Hoagland, IN
Posts
4,512
Re: The new WCHA is dead pt2
Quote Originally Posted by Suze View Post
And the shots were 64-11. Real classy to run the score up like that. Not.
Its ****ing Division I athletics, not a youth jamboree. Suck it up or just save everyone the embarrassment and drop the program.
And, last time I talked with the WCHA commissioner about the subsidy agreement, it wasn't what it used to be, nor was every school getting full reimbursement. Got something that says otherwise? I'm all ears.
Salty Much? Follow along. What is the next excuse? “Travel cost”…nope. “Pairwise hit”…hope. “Lost class time”…sure, that’s it. You don’t have to get your panties in a wad.
Maybe he should follow his own advice he gave earlier.....
moose97 moose97 is offline
Registered User
moose97's AvatarJoin Date
Aug 1999
Location
Hoagland, IN
Posts
4,512
Re: The new WCHA is dead pt2
Quote Originally Posted by Suze View Post
And the shots were 64-11. Real classy to run the score up like that. Not.
Its ****ing Division I athletics, not a youth jamboree. Suck it up or just save everyone the embarrassment and drop the program.
And, last time I talked with the WCHA commissioner about the subsidy agreement, it wasn't what it used to be, nor was every school getting full reimbursement. Got something that says otherwise? I'm all ears.
moose97
New member
Re: The new WCHA is dead pt2
Last I checked, travel to Alaska isn't a requirement for having a DI hockey team
