The New WCHA (2013-14)

[SCSU Euro]

As I said earlier, I don't see why you couldn't have every school block off rooms before the season, then release the rooms when it becomes clear that said school isn't going to host (say, when the school is mathematically eliminated from the regular season title).



And in hindsight, that "extra week off" might have killed any momentum BSU had once they reached the Frozen Four. Note, by the time the Beavers stepped on the ice in DC, they were playing just their 3rd game in almost 4 weeks (CHA Championship game 3/14/09, Midwest Regionals 3/28 & 29/09, Frozen Four 4/9/09).

You could also argue that that extra time off helped them rest up and help GET to the Frozen Four. I think its a stretch that BSU was significantly hindered by the time off... Don't you think that that was less of a hinderance than being the leasted talented team left standing?

 

[Bale]

Re: The New WCHA (2013-14)

As I said earlier, I don't see why you couldn't have every school block off rooms before the season, then release the rooms when it becomes clear that said school isn't going to host (say, when the school is mathematically eliminated from the regular season title).

In all honesty, are hotel rooms really going to be that big of an issue for this tourney? I honestly don't know the hotel situation in all of these towns, but if I look at Mankato specifically, there are in the range of 25 hotels (give or take a couple). If you figure that there are 100 rooms in each of those hotels and a 50% occupancy rate, you're still left with 1200 rooms that are available on any given weekend. That's a lot of rooms for out of town people coming in on a moment's notice. Again, I really think you're looking at MAYBE 200 people from each visiting school and MAYBE 200-300 people that go on a yearly basis from the non-qualifying teams. That's about 1000 people (200*4 visiting schools + 200 people). At 2 people to a room, you need 500 rooms available. I Kato that doesn't seem to be a problem. Like I said though, I fully admit I don't know what the situation is in other towns.

 

[aparch]

Re: The New WCHA (2013-14)

... Like I said though, I fully admit I don't know what the situation is in other towns.

I know in Marquette hosts an annual car show, and I think the UP Builders Show at the Superior Dome during the playoffs. While this doesn't affect the Berry, it does affect hotel accommodations in the area.

I really can't see how hosting at the rink of the league champion is a good idea. It just seems like a step backwards for the WCHA.

 

[MavsFan]

Re: The New WCHA (2013-14)

It just seems like a step backwards for the WCHA.

That horse already left the barn. The only question is where to go after the step backwards.

 

[giwan]

Re: The New WCHA (2013-14)

I know in Marquette hosts an annual car show, and I think the UP Builders Show at the Superior Dome during the playoffs. While this doesn't affect the Berry, it does affect hotel accommodations in the area.
I really can't see how hosting at the rink of the league champion is a good idea. It just seems like a step backwards for the WCHA.

Really? The hotels book up for a builder and car show?

 

[Bale]

Re: The New WCHA (2013-14)

I know in Marquette hosts an annual car show, and I think the UP Builders Show at the Superior Dome during the playoffs. While this doesn't affect the Berry, it does affect hotel accommodations in the area.

I really can't see how hosting at the rink of the league champion is a good idea. It just seems like a step backwards for the WCHA.

I still can't see how the league tourney will draw more than 5000/game in the near future regardless of location. Realistically, that's the first question. What is a realistic goal for this league from attendance and then work backwards from there. What is going to maximize the attendance in comparison to the actual cost of holding the tourney in any given location.

I agree with MavsFan though, we've already taken a step backwards. We don't have the luxury of worrying about the perception compared to other conferences fans. We have to worry abotu what makes the most sense for us. We don't have a model to copy due to how spread out the conference is. We have to make the model and it's probably going to be trial-and-error. That's not to say that holding it at the league champion is the best option, I don't know what the income statement will look like in any scenario. I just don't think that the league can eliminate any option until looking at the financial implications.

 

[aparch]

Re: The New WCHA (2013-14)

From the CCHA at JLA (20,066): Friday - 7,823 (39.0%); Saturday - 10,421 (52.0%)
From Hockey East at TD Garden (17,565): Friday - 13,974 (79.6%); Saturday - 13,079 (74.5%)
From the ECAC at Boardwalk Hall, Atlantic City, NJ (10,500): Friday - 3,462 (33.0%); Saturday - 4,131 (39.4%)
From Atlantic Hockey at Blue Cross Arena, Rochester, NY (13,000): Friday - 3,287 (25.3%); Saturday - 2,433 (18.7%)
Ignoring the WCHA at Xcel because they individually ticket all games.

Average of All (minus WCHA) Friday Semi-Final Championship games: 28,546/61,131 = 46.7%
Average of All (minus WCHA) Saturday Championship (and third place) games: 30,064/61,131 = 49.2%



Obviously leagues like the AHA and ECAC seem to make an AHL rink work for them with a continued lack of attendance. Why should the New WCHA not do the same if those "lesser" leagues are obviously making it work? Why all of a sudden should we rewind the WCHA to pre-1987?

 

[aparch]

Re: The New WCHA (2013-14)

And, for kicks, here's the seating capacities of all the New WCHA member schools:
University of Alaska Anchorage - Sullivan Arena - 6,251
University of Alaska Fairbanks - Carlson Center - 4,595
Bemidji State University - Sanford Center - 4,700
Minnesota State University, Mankato - Verizon Wireless Center - 5,280
Michigan Tech University - John J. MacInnes Ice Arena - 4,200
Northern Michigan University - Berry Events Center - 4,300
Lake Superior State University - Taffy Abel Arena - 4,000
Ferris State University - <strike>Dumby Barn</strike> Robert L. Ewigleben Ice Arena - 2,493
Bowling Green State University - BGSU Ice Arena - 5,000
And for posterity, University of Alabama, Huntsville - Von Braun Center - 6,602


With rinks like this, the league CANNOT draw more than 5,000 people to a theoretical regular season Champ hosted Championship playoff game.

 

[davyd83]

Re: The New WCHA (2013-14)

Really? The hotels book up for a builder and car show?

No the vendors that that come from Houghton, Iron Mountain, Escanaba, Newberry and many other points to fill up 100,000 square feet of display space sleep in their cars. Same with the visitors from various areas.

 

[giwan]

Re: The New WCHA (2013-14)

No the vendors that that come from Houghton, Iron Mountain, Escanaba, Newberry and many other points to fill up 100,000 square feet of display space sleep in their cars. Same with the visitors from various areas.

Oh it's never that full.

 

[moose97]

Re: The New WCHA (2013-14)

From the CCHA at JLA (20,066): Friday - 7,823 (39.0%); Saturday - 10,421 (52.0%)
From Hockey East at TD Garden (17,565): Friday - 13,974 (79.6%); Saturday - 13,079 (74.5%)
From the ECAC at Boardwalk Hall, Atlantic City, NJ (10,500): Friday - 3,462 (33.0%); Saturday - 4,131 (39.4%)
From Atlantic Hockey at Blue Cross Arena, Rochester, NY (13,000): Friday - 3,287 (25.3%); Saturday - 2,433 (18.7%)
Ignoring the WCHA at Xcel because they individually ticket all games.

Average of All (minus WCHA) Friday Semi-Final Championship games: 28,546/61,131 = 46.7%
Average of All (minus WCHA) Saturday Championship (and third place) games: 30,064/61,131 = 49.2%



Obviously leagues like the AHA and ECAC seem to make an AHL rink work for them with a continued lack of attendance. Why should the New WCHA not do the same if those "lesser" leagues are obviously making it work? Why all of a sudden should we rewind the WCHA to pre-1987?

If you call 20-40% capacity, "working for them," then okay. I'd rather see a good crowd (i.e. a full building) than something half empty or worse.

I look at the Minnesota HS Hockey Tourney as a good example. For Class AA (large schools), the Xcel works perfectly, as the championship game sells out every year. The Class A tourney, on the other hand, might be better off at Mariucci, as they play before a half empty building. God forbid we bring up the girl's A or AA - they should be in Ridder Arena the crowds are so small. But - all end up at the X, and the experience suffers greatly. Bottom line - put your even in the "right" sized rink, then grow when it's warranted.

 

[Bale]

Re: The New WCHA (2013-14)

And, for kicks, here's the seating capacities of all the New WCHA member schools:
University of Alaska Anchorage - Sullivan Arena - 6,251
University of Alaska Fairbanks - Carlson Center - 4,595
Bemidji State University - Sanford Center - 4,700
Minnesota State University, Mankato - Verizon Wireless Center - 5,280
Michigan Tech University - John J. MacInnes Ice Arena - 4,200
Northern Michigan University - Berry Events Center - 4,300
Lake Superior State University - Taffy Abel Arena - 4,000
Ferris State University - <strike>Dumby Barn</strike> Robert L. Ewigleben Ice Arena - 2,493
Bowling Green State University - BGSU Ice Arena - 5,000
And for posterity, University of Alabama, Huntsville - Von Braun Center - 6,602


With rinks like this, the league CANNOT draw more than 5,000 people to a theoretical regular season Champ hosted Championship playoff game.

that's a fair point. I can buy that. I'm used to the WCHA rinks where Kato is one of the smaller ones. That makes a lot more sense now.

 

[Ralph Baer]

Re: The New WCHA (2013-14)

I don't know where you've been the last forever, but RPI is a member of the EZAC.

It looks like the 'Tute isn't going to the HEA, so anything is possible.

 

[aparch]

Re: The New WCHA (2013-14)

If you call 20-40% capacity, "working for them," then okay. I'd rather see a good crowd (i.e. a full building) than something half empty or worse.

*shrug* The ECAC and Atlantic Hockey leagues have utilized the same venues (or similar sized neutral arenas) for almost a decade. The switch for ECAC to Atlantic City started last season, and was a three year deal. They seem to be okay with it. I'm sure additional sponsorship dollars for being part of such an event help offset costs of renting the facilities *cough*Red Baron WCHA Final Five*cough*.

ECAC
Times Union Center, Albany, NY (14,236)
2004 - Friday - 5,641 (39.6%); Saturday - 6,489 (45.6%)
2005 - Friday - 7,580 (53.2%); Saturday - 8,637 (60.7%)
2006 - Friday - 6,255 (43.9%); Saturday - 7,093 (49.8%)
2007 - Friday - 4,484 (31.5%); Saturday - 5,565 (39.1%)
2008 - Friday - 5,074 (35.6%); Saturday - 4,851 (34.1%)
2009 - Friday - 3,517 (24.7%); Saturday - 4,857 (34.1%)
2010 - Friday - 0 (0.0%); Saturday - 6,505 (45.7%) @
Boardwalk Hall, Atlantic City, NJ (10,500)
2011 - Friday - 3,351 (23.5%); Saturday - 4,126 (29.0%)
2012 - Friday - 3,462 (33.0%); Saturday - 4,131 (39.4%)
2013 - Future, but committed to this arena.

Atlantic Hockey
Tate Rink, West Point, NY (2,648) #
2004 - Friday - 842 (31.8%); Saturday - 1,428 (53.9%)
Northford Ice Pavilion, Northford, CT (1,000) $
2005 - Friday - 1,000 (100%); Saturday - 1,000 (100%)
Hart Center, Worcester, MA (1,600) $
2006 - Friday - 2,000 (125%); Saturday - 2,000 (125%)
Blue Cross Arena, Rochester, NY (13,000)
2007 - Friday - 780 (6.0%); Saturday - 713 (5.5%)
2008 - Friday - 1,430 (11.0%); Saturday - 3,933 (30.3%); Sunday 1,468 (11.3%) &
2009 - Friday - 2,555 (19.7%); Saturday - 827 (6.4%)
2010 - Friday - 1,803 (13.9%); Saturday - 3,298 (25.4%)
2011 - Friday - 2,230 (17.2%); Saturday - 3,400 (26.2%)
2012 - Friday - 3,287 (25.3%); Saturday - 2,433 (18.7%)

@ - No attendance listed for either of Friday's games on Collegehockeystats.net
# - Hosted by Army
$ - Played at Regular Season Champ's Rink
& - Atlantic Hockey played a Final Five / Three day series

 

[aparch]

Re: The New WCHA (2013-14)

I will agree Moose that a full building would be nice, but at what cost should that happen? How marketable is it for the WCHA to rotate amongst the league or let the league champ host? I can't imagine crowning the league champion in scenic Big Rapids, MI in front of a potential 2,500 people (realistically, 1,300) would be worth it to the league.

A lot of sponsorship dollars can be tied to a central venue, which can make it profitable even with a lack of attendance.

 

[Mav Fan]

Re: The New WCHA (2013-14)

In all honesty, are hotel rooms really going to be that big of an issue for this tourney? I honestly don't know the hotel situation in all of these towns, but if I look at Mankato specifically, there are in the range of 25 hotels (give or take a couple). If you figure that there are 100 rooms in each of those hotels and a 50% occupancy rate, you're still left with 1200 rooms that are available on any given weekend. That's a lot of rooms for out of town people coming in on a moment's notice. Again, I really think you're looking at MAYBE 200 people from each visiting school and MAYBE 200-300 people that go on a yearly basis from the non-qualifying teams. That's about 1000 people (200*4 visiting schools + 200 people). At 2 people to a room, you need 500 rooms available. I Kato that doesn't seem to be a problem. Like I said though, I fully admit I don't know what the situation is in other towns.

Have you ever tried to book a room in Mankato last minute, especially in February or March? It's almost impossible, even the dumps are usually full. Mankato plays host to a lot of the winter sports tournaments at all levels this time of year. Besides, its not just the fans that need hotel rooms, its the visiting teams. I'm not sure how many rooms a team rents when it is out of town, but take that number and multiply times 4 (assuming they stick with the current Final Five format). It's also not uncommon for the host school to put up their players to minimize distractions and encourage a team atmosphere. I think Mankato would make an excellent host city for a tournament, I just don't think they could pull it off at the last minute.

 

[davyd83]

Re: The New WCHA (2013-14)

Have you ever tried to book a room in Mankato last minute, especially in February or March? It's almost impossible, even the dumps are usually full. Mankato plays host to a lot of the winter sports tournaments at all levels this time of year. Besides, its not just the fans that need hotel rooms, its the visiting teams. I'm not sure how many rooms a team rents when it is out of town, but take that number and multiply times 4 (assuming they stick with the current Final Five format). It's also not uncommon for the host school to put up their players to minimize distractions and encourage a team atmosphere. I think Mankato would make an excellent host city for a tournament, I just don't think they could pull it off at the last minute.

Teams would need anywhere from 15-20 rooms each.

 

[davyd83]

Re: The New WCHA (2013-14)

I will agree Moose that a full building would be nice, but at what cost should that happen? How marketable is it for the WCHA to rotate amongst the league or let the league champ host? I can't imagine crowning the league champion in scenic Big Rapids, MI in front of a potential 2,500 people (realistically, 1,300) would be worth it to the league.

A lot of sponsorship dollars can be tied to a central venue, which can make it profitable even with a lack of attendance.

But if you have a lack of attendance, you're not going to bring in much sponsorship revenue.

 

[true2BSU]

Re: The New WCHA (2013-14)

Perhaps a neutral setting for the first year, then the following year that school hosts the final tournament? Tech wins in 14... they host the tournament in 15. That way everyone would know a year ahead of time where the tournament is... and if you are Alaska, it gives schools an opportunity to host as well as drum up support from their community for attendance issues. Just a thought.

 

[gfmorris]

Re: The New WCHA (2013-14)

As I said earlier, I don't see why you couldn't have every school block off rooms before the season, then release the rooms when it becomes clear that said school isn't going to host (say, when the school is mathematically eliminated from the regular season title).

Will that work in some of the smaller towns? I honestly don't know how many hotel rooms Bemidji has. [I'm only going to mention Bemidji because we all know I like to pick on Bemidji.] It hasn't been a problem for UAH to do this---we've had to do it the last two years for the men's basketball tournament---but that's been both fewer rooms (smaller teams/contingents) and a bigger city. I'm asking because I just don't know. We put our hoops teams up in the Westin, but we've only had that for a couple of years. For hockey, we'd use the downtown hotels that are right by the rink.

And in hindsight, that "extra week off" might have killed any momentum BSU had once they reached the Frozen Four. Note, by the time the Beavers stepped on the ice in DC, they were playing just their 3rd game in almost 4 weeks (CHA Championship game 3/14/09, Midwest Regionals 3/28 & 29/09, Frozen Four 4/9/09).

But that week off is the only way UAH had a puncher's chance either time, given that we were coming from behind in both conference tournaments. In Talbie I Trust.

GFM <-- still maintains that last year's team could have won 12-16 games with the Bot in net instead of the freshmen we had.