bigblue_dl
Armed
Re: The New WCHA (2013-14)
Pffft, the oil is much further north.We drill for oil. Slightly more practical...
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The New WCHA (2013-14)
- Thread starter aparch
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gfmorris
New member
Re: The New WCHA (2013-14)
I've thought about this more, and I'm going to respond to goon's question about AHA. Please note that anything that I say is my opinion, and any conjecture on my part is pure speculation that has nothing to do with any data that I have on this matter. You are an idiot if you think otherwise. In fact, I'm probably only able to answer this because I haven't spoken with anyone at UAH about it.
Here's what I know:
1. The WCHA is where we really want to be. Our rivals are there, and we've played most of the member schools lately. We're "like minded" school-wise. Also, it's the best hockey environment for us by a country mile.
2. The AHA teams that have played in Huntsville in the last decade are RMU, NU [although not as a non-conference opponent], Air Force [who flies everywhere but CC and DU] this year, Mercyhurst [a bus trip] this year, RIT [2005-06 as part of a home-and-home in their first year in D-I as an independent when they needed games, just like Ferris supported us last year], Holy Cross [2004-05], Connecticut [2003-04], and Fairfield [2002-03, two weeks before they announced that their program was done]. You have to go back to 2001-02 when both Bentley and Sacred Heart played in Huntsville to find another year where two AHA/MAAC teams came to Huntsville. The last one that definitely flew was HC eight seasons ago.
Here is what I have been told in the past:
1. In the late 2000s, we talked with Atlantic Hockey and our interest was rebuffed.
Here is my conjecture:
1. The makeup of Atlantic Hockey has hardly changed since then. I do not think that adding Robert Morris and Niagara, who were both in College Hockey America with us, significantly changes the dynamic for us. The travel from schools out east is generally a flight, and they clearly aren't interested in making it.
If I'm UAH, I have to act as if there is no possibility of Atlantic Hockey. You don't even want to talk about it for all the reasons I've listed. Hell, I think UAH stands a better shot of getting into HE or ECAC than they do AHA, and I'm not saying that to be funny. You can't project that as a possibility, because that opens up a weakness. Would we talk to Atlantic Hockey? Yes, I would think that we would if we were denied by the nWCHA, because at that point we're looking at terrible options. But there is no reason to give anyone who thinks they can pawn the "Keep UAH Alive" buck off to Atlantic Hockey a chance to think that it's realistic. None. Trips speak volumes: AHA teams don't come to Huntsville, and nWCHA teams do.
Any questions?
GFM
I've thought about this more, and I'm going to respond to goon's question about AHA. Please note that anything that I say is my opinion, and any conjecture on my part is pure speculation that has nothing to do with any data that I have on this matter. You are an idiot if you think otherwise. In fact, I'm probably only able to answer this because I haven't spoken with anyone at UAH about it.
Here's what I know:
1. The WCHA is where we really want to be. Our rivals are there, and we've played most of the member schools lately. We're "like minded" school-wise. Also, it's the best hockey environment for us by a country mile.
2. The AHA teams that have played in Huntsville in the last decade are RMU, NU [although not as a non-conference opponent], Air Force [who flies everywhere but CC and DU] this year, Mercyhurst [a bus trip] this year, RIT [2005-06 as part of a home-and-home in their first year in D-I as an independent when they needed games, just like Ferris supported us last year], Holy Cross [2004-05], Connecticut [2003-04], and Fairfield [2002-03, two weeks before they announced that their program was done]. You have to go back to 2001-02 when both Bentley and Sacred Heart played in Huntsville to find another year where two AHA/MAAC teams came to Huntsville. The last one that definitely flew was HC eight seasons ago.
Here is what I have been told in the past:
1. In the late 2000s, we talked with Atlantic Hockey and our interest was rebuffed.
Here is my conjecture:
1. The makeup of Atlantic Hockey has hardly changed since then. I do not think that adding Robert Morris and Niagara, who were both in College Hockey America with us, significantly changes the dynamic for us. The travel from schools out east is generally a flight, and they clearly aren't interested in making it.
If I'm UAH, I have to act as if there is no possibility of Atlantic Hockey. You don't even want to talk about it for all the reasons I've listed. Hell, I think UAH stands a better shot of getting into HE or ECAC than they do AHA, and I'm not saying that to be funny. You can't project that as a possibility, because that opens up a weakness. Would we talk to Atlantic Hockey? Yes, I would think that we would if we were denied by the nWCHA, because at that point we're looking at terrible options. But there is no reason to give anyone who thinks they can pawn the "Keep UAH Alive" buck off to Atlantic Hockey a chance to think that it's realistic. None. Trips speak volumes: AHA teams don't come to Huntsville, and nWCHA teams do.
Any questions?
GFM
uaafanblog
AKA - "Drop The Puck"
Re: The New WCHA (2013-14)
Cos Cape Canaveral is in Huntsville.Pffft, the oil is much further north.
JohnsonsJerseys
Michigan Tech Fan
Conference Tourney in Canada? No, eh.
Conference Tourney in Canada? No, eh.
All WCHA teams are US based schools.
Chances the conference tourney is held in a foreign country - 0.00%
UND going to Winnipeg this year is the first foreign college game I can remember. If there was even a remote chance a conference tourney would be on foreign soil you would see the league testing the waters much more frequently. In my opinion, if you move the tourney to Canada you're saying to the league's fans "we think there is a better chance of people local to the area attending that the actual fans of the programs..." much like when the NFL goes to Europe or Mexico. You're not counting on fans from the US filling the seats, you're expecting the locals to fill the seats. Even if the WCHA was comprised of the top ten programs in D-I hockey I don't think you would see the WCHA take that kind of risk, not to mention snubbing the fans of the teams that buy the tickets for every other game all season long would be a bad PR move. I have noting against Canada, but it makes no sense for the WCHA to go there for anything other than an occasional exhibition game to grown interest in recruiting out of the local junior leagues.
Ryan J
Conference Tourney in Canada? No, eh.
All WCHA teams are US based schools.
Chances the conference tourney is held in a foreign country - 0.00%
UND going to Winnipeg this year is the first foreign college game I can remember. If there was even a remote chance a conference tourney would be on foreign soil you would see the league testing the waters much more frequently. In my opinion, if you move the tourney to Canada you're saying to the league's fans "we think there is a better chance of people local to the area attending that the actual fans of the programs..." much like when the NFL goes to Europe or Mexico. You're not counting on fans from the US filling the seats, you're expecting the locals to fill the seats. Even if the WCHA was comprised of the top ten programs in D-I hockey I don't think you would see the WCHA take that kind of risk, not to mention snubbing the fans of the teams that buy the tickets for every other game all season long would be a bad PR move. I have noting against Canada, but it makes no sense for the WCHA to go there for anything other than an occasional exhibition game to grown interest in recruiting out of the local junior leagues.
Ryan J
aparch
Well-known member
Re: The New WCHA (2013-14)
Skimming the UConn to Hockey East thread, it seems there is no love lost between the Eastern schools and the Western schools. RIT fans are adamant that their school didn't want to mingle with such peasant schools like BGSU, FSU, and LSSU. And the AHA schools are much better than the remaining New WCHA schools will be.
But yet, in the next couple paragraphs, they want to send the "cast offs" from the AHA to the West to be rid of the dead weight.
An interesting read to say the least.
Skimming the UConn to Hockey East thread, it seems there is no love lost between the Eastern schools and the Western schools. RIT fans are adamant that their school didn't want to mingle with such peasant schools like BGSU, FSU, and LSSU. And the AHA schools are much better than the remaining New WCHA schools will be.
But yet, in the next couple paragraphs, they want to send the "cast offs" from the AHA to the West to be rid of the dead weight.
An interesting read to say the least.
manurespreader
Still upright
Re: The New WCHA (2013-14)
JJ I disagree. the truth is that the locals do not attend in any numbers. So why are we trying to make a case that they do. they don't.They don't in Detroit, they don't in Green Bay, or Milwaukee or Minneapolis either. This is just the way it is.
Second it's not thumbing it's nose. If it was in windsor ontario, 1/2 hour away, I would have no problem going. It 's not about the country imho, it's about the distance.Crossing the river is a minor inconvenience if you ask me. I would venture to say that the alumni of most of the michigan schools is in michigan, and that a trip to minny is not in the cards for very many, whereas a trip to the soo would be. It's 5 hours for me vs 15 for instance.
So yes the locals would go at the Soo, which is more than you can say about any place else.
I guess I don't see it sending a bad message.
Second, lets guess at how many fans each school would bring to any playoff. Maybe what 400. Depending on where they are. No one is going to vegas or nashville. it's too far. So the attendance is going to be 400 x 7= 2800 roughly.. If it's in minnesota you get more from there but fewer from michigan, etc. If we can sell the remaining tickets, and if we can make a profit doing it, why not? Better than renting out a big place, spending a ton of money we don't have, not selling tickets to anyone but the 2800, and wondering what happened.
JJ I disagree. the truth is that the locals do not attend in any numbers. So why are we trying to make a case that they do. they don't.They don't in Detroit, they don't in Green Bay, or Milwaukee or Minneapolis either. This is just the way it is.
Second it's not thumbing it's nose. If it was in windsor ontario, 1/2 hour away, I would have no problem going. It 's not about the country imho, it's about the distance.Crossing the river is a minor inconvenience if you ask me. I would venture to say that the alumni of most of the michigan schools is in michigan, and that a trip to minny is not in the cards for very many, whereas a trip to the soo would be. It's 5 hours for me vs 15 for instance.
So yes the locals would go at the Soo, which is more than you can say about any place else.
I guess I don't see it sending a bad message.
Second, lets guess at how many fans each school would bring to any playoff. Maybe what 400. Depending on where they are. No one is going to vegas or nashville. it's too far. So the attendance is going to be 400 x 7= 2800 roughly.. If it's in minnesota you get more from there but fewer from michigan, etc. If we can sell the remaining tickets, and if we can make a profit doing it, why not? Better than renting out a big place, spending a ton of money we don't have, not selling tickets to anyone but the 2800, and wondering what happened.
uaafanblog
AKA - "Drop The Puck"
Re: The New WCHA (2013-14)
Add UAH. Do best of 3 playoffs on higher seeds home ice. Simple Math. End of Story. So There's That.
There will never be another "Final Five" type tournament for ANY college hockey league. It's clear to me that trying to recreate it in any way is just going to be disappointing.
Add UAH. Do best of 3 playoffs on higher seeds home ice. Simple Math. End of Story. So There's That.
There will never be another "Final Five" type tournament for ANY college hockey league. It's clear to me that trying to recreate it in any way is just going to be disappointing.
aparch
Well-known member
Re: The New WCHA (2013-14)
If the locals "don't show up" then why are you proposing to move the tourney out of the country?
The concensus that the atmosphere of the Final Five will never be re-captured. So why are we proposing making knee-jerk reactions or assinine suggestions that the league winner hosts?
One centrally located "crown jewel" is where the Championship will be located. It may even be in conjunction with the B1G utilizing the Xcel and JLA opposite of the B1G tourney.
I guess I'm just getting a little ansy in that the WCHA had no problem making and announcing decisions a year ago that affected the 2012-13 season... And now they're silent once again.
If the locals "don't show up" then why are you proposing to move the tourney out of the country?
The concensus that the atmosphere of the Final Five will never be re-captured. So why are we proposing making knee-jerk reactions or assinine suggestions that the league winner hosts?
One centrally located "crown jewel" is where the Championship will be located. It may even be in conjunction with the B1G utilizing the Xcel and JLA opposite of the B1G tourney.
I guess I'm just getting a little ansy in that the WCHA had no problem making and announcing decisions a year ago that affected the 2012-13 season... And now they're silent once again.
moose97
New member
Re: The New WCHA (2013-14)
Why would they make announcements now, though? The season is, after all, still going on. As has been noted, the WCHA has the dual task of running the current membership, plus setting up the '13-'14 membership. Don't you think that the current WCHA (and by definition, the future WCHA + CCHA) offices and AD's have been just a bit busy leading up to the Final Five and CCHA at the Joe that just wrapped up? In fact, if you would have listened to my "College Hockey Tonight" Final Five weekend, you would have heard Bruce McLeod talking about how difficult it is to run, essentially, 2 conferences at the same time. you also would have heard him say that "after the Frozen Four, but before the coaches meetings," you'd start to hear more news, re: tourney, etc.
Put it this way - you may be antsy, but that's because NMU hasn't played in, what, 3 weeks. You think Ferris State fans care (at the moment) about something 18 months away? No, they're tied up in this whole "national semifinal" thing they got going on...
Why would they make announcements now, though? The season is, after all, still going on. As has been noted, the WCHA has the dual task of running the current membership, plus setting up the '13-'14 membership. Don't you think that the current WCHA (and by definition, the future WCHA + CCHA) offices and AD's have been just a bit busy leading up to the Final Five and CCHA at the Joe that just wrapped up? In fact, if you would have listened to my "College Hockey Tonight" Final Five weekend, you would have heard Bruce McLeod talking about how difficult it is to run, essentially, 2 conferences at the same time. you also would have heard him say that "after the Frozen Four, but before the coaches meetings," you'd start to hear more news, re: tourney, etc.
Put it this way - you may be antsy, but that's because NMU hasn't played in, what, 3 weeks. You think Ferris State fans care (at the moment) about something 18 months away? No, they're tied up in this whole "national semifinal" thing they got going on...
Shirtless Guy
Old Dirty Basterd
Re: The New WCHA (2013-14)
Silence is fine at this point. I have a feeling most of the work will be done once the 2011-12 season is over and the ADs of the nWCHA have more time to discuss things and get to the meat of the issues. I know for a fact that subcommittees are "meeting" and discussing the vary issues we are working through and I highly doubt it's been any easier for the ADs than it has been for us to come up with solutions and agree on them.
Almington
Blood Boiling with Rage and Hate
Re: The New WCHA (2013-14)
My experience with RIT fans has not been favorable: They have all the arrogance of a historic power without actually having accomplished much of anything at the D1 level to warrant it.
My experience with RIT fans has not been favorable: They have all the arrogance of a historic power without actually having accomplished much of anything at the D1 level to warrant it.
Ralph Baer
Let's Go 'Tute!
Re: Conference Tourney in Canada? No, eh.
Re: Conference Tourney in Canada? No, eh.
Re: Conference Tourney in Canada? No, eh.
RPI and UVM played in Quebec City in 2008-9.
Re: The New WCHA (2013-14)
They'll announce something when they have something to announce.
They'll announce something when they have something to announce.
moose97
New member
Re: The New WCHA (2013-14)
Well, yeah, there is that.
Also, consider that if the WCHA (or Bruce McLeod, or an AD) came out at said, "you know, our first choice for the tourney is Ice Palace Hawaii. If we don't get that place booked, then we're screwed and would have to go to an abandoned warehouse in Siberia," doesn't that give Ice Palace Hawaii an edge in negotiations? In fact, when I talked to Bruce a couple weeks ago, I couldn't get him to say anything, even off the record (which is saying something, since he has almost always told me of the record stuff in the past) about tourney location.
Well, yeah, there is that.
Also, consider that if the WCHA (or Bruce McLeod, or an AD) came out at said, "you know, our first choice for the tourney is Ice Palace Hawaii. If we don't get that place booked, then we're screwed and would have to go to an abandoned warehouse in Siberia," doesn't that give Ice Palace Hawaii an edge in negotiations? In fact, when I talked to Bruce a couple weeks ago, I couldn't get him to say anything, even off the record (which is saying something, since he has almost always told me of the record stuff in the past) about tourney location.
manurespreader
Still upright
Re: The New WCHA (2013-14)
just an anecdote. I was in Boston this week and sat at the bar with a guy from Halifax who has season tickets to the MJ team there.
I said to him, " what if four NCAA teams came to Halifax for a weekend tournament, what would happen." Before I was done he said, "it would sell out. No question about it" so yeah, in Canada, the WCHA will sell out, no doubt.
just an anecdote. I was in Boston this week and sat at the bar with a guy from Halifax who has season tickets to the MJ team there.
I said to him, " what if four NCAA teams came to Halifax for a weekend tournament, what would happen." Before I was done he said, "it would sell out. No question about it" so yeah, in Canada, the WCHA will sell out, no doubt.
"No doubt" because one guy in Halifax, Nova Scotia says so? Brilliant! That's market research, one guy in a bar!
Re: The New WCHA (2013-14)
Then by all means, we should play the WCHA Tourney in Halifax! It is a fantastic town for sure!
Then by all means, we should play the WCHA Tourney in Halifax! It is a fantastic town for sure!
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