The New WCHA (2013-14)

[RaceBoarder]

Re: The New WCHA (2013-14)

Effing tolls... They always get ya...

 

[moose97]

Re: The New WCHA (2013-14)

I've got about 200,000 total bus miles here, between the college and pro levels, Did travel booking as well for a couple seasons. I've only seen a second driver on a bus once and that was on a sleeper bus. Then again, I've never seen anything as preposterous as making a 20 trip for hockey on a bus. Those were for Spring Break only! However, there have been many 11-15 hour trips with one driver and a swap somewhere along the way.

The bottom line is that with the exception of Bowling Green, a Huntsville trip is a cumbersome and costly adventure. If you go 17-20 hours by bus, you put your team in a bad position, not only for the weekend in Huntsville but for the following weekend as well. I've seen what a team looks like after 2 days and 20 hours on a bus, and it's not pretty. And it's not something that as a player, you wake up the next day feeling refreshed. If you fly, you are talking major dollars that most coaches would prefer to have for recruiting, equipment or other expenses. Huntsville will stand a chance if there is a way that gap can be bridged.

I don't disagree that 20 hour bus rides are dumb (I've done them), but some folks here (ahem, you) imply that they can't be done. They can. They just are dumb, as noted.

Which comes back to the point I have made in the past - do these schools want to be D-I or don't they? Being D-I in any sport means making the financial commitment to travel. Look at the Great West Conference. They have schools from California (Cal Poly/UC-Davis) to New Jersey (NJIT) and everywhere in between (North & South Dakota, Southern Utah, Texas Pan-Am, Chicago State). That makes the old CHA look like a bus league... Do they bus to games? Uh, no, they fly. Do they ask for an dispensation in the 24-hour rule? No, they have made the commitment to being D-I (sure, in all sports, not just one) and are fundraising to support that move (and the flights that are required). Same should be true if a school wants to be D-I in hockey. If they can't make the commitment, then start an effort to return to a championship granting NCAA D-II hockey model.


edit - and just for the record, I've got ~ 125,000 bus miles. Not to mention that I've got a CDL with bus endorsement. You're not the only one who rides bus for a living.

 

[davyd83]

Re: The New WCHA (2013-14)

I don't disagree that 20 hour bus rides are dumb (I've done them), but some folks here (ahem, you) imply that they can't be done. They can. They just are dumb, as noted.

Which comes back to the point I have made in the past - do these schools want to be D-I or don't they? Being D-I in any sport means making the financial commitment to travel. Look at the Great West Conference. They have schools from California (Cal Poly/UC-Davis) to New Jersey (NJIT) and everywhere in between (North & South Dakota, Southern Utah, Texas Pan-Am, Chicago State). That makes the old CHA look like a bus league... Do they bus to games? Uh, no, they fly. Do they ask for an dispensation in the 24-hour rule? No, they have made the commitment to being D-I (sure, in all sports, not just one) and are fundraising to support that move (and the flights that are required). Same should be true if a school wants to be D-I in hockey. If they can't make the commitment, then start an effort to return to a championship granting NCAA D-II hockey model.


edit - and just for the record, I've got ~ 125,000 bus miles. Not to mention that I've got a CDL with bus endorsement. You're not the only one who rides bus for a living.

So then why shouldn't the NCHC make the D-I commitment to Huntsville, or AHA or Hockey East? Do you know why Western Michigan didn't get to follow Notre Dame to Hockey East? They've been a bus league, and while the Notre Dame brand brings enough value to the league to offset the every other year trip to South Bend, Western Michigan does not bring enough value to warrant the trip to Kalamazoo. Hey Hockey East needs a 12th member just as much as the WCHA needs a 10th, so are they shirking their D-I responsibility but not even considering UAH "for the good of college hockey?" The NCHC is going to be flying all over the place anyway, why not add Huntsville?

Think about the WCHA like you would the Horizon League in basketball. It's a mid-major, and for the most part, a bus league with controlled costs. They are D-I, just the same as the Great West, which plays all over the place. The MAC is a very bus friendly league as well. Should they add a team well outside their cost friendly footprint?

Yes, a 20 hour bus trip is dumb. Yes, it can be done, but I don't think it's likely that a majority of these schools will want to add that. But then again, how smart, and fiscally responsible is taking 10 grand out of your recruiting, equipment or other budget to fly to Huntsville? Plenty of D-I basketball and football leagues maintain a decent bus friendly footprint. There is no reason this hockey conference shouldn't.

 

[darker98]

Re: The New WCHA (2013-14)

So then why shouldn't the NCHC make the D-I commitment to Huntsville, or AHA or Hockey East? Do you know why Western Michigan didn't get to follow Notre Dame to Hockey East? They've been a bus league, and while the Notre Dame brand brings enough value to the league to offset the every other year trip to South Bend, Western Michigan does not bring enough value to warrant the trip to Kalamazoo. Hey Hockey East needs a 12th member just as much as the WCHA needs a 10th, so are they shirking their D-I responsibility but not even considering UAH "for the good of college hockey?" The NCHC is going to be flying all over the place anyway, why not add Huntsville?

I do Believe the NCHC is looking at a round number of 9.

 

[moose97]

Re: The New WCHA (2013-14)

So then why shouldn't the NCHC make the D-I commitment to Huntsville, or AHA or Hockey East?

I never said they shouldn't.

Hey Hockey East needs a 12th member just as much as the WCHA needs a 10th, so are they shirking their D-I responsibility but not even considering UAH "for the good of college hockey?" The NCHC is going to be flying all over the place anyway, why not add Huntsville?

If by the first part you mean, "neither needs another team very much," then you'd be correct.

Yes, a 20 hour bus trip is dumb. Yes, it can be done, but I don't think it's likely that a majority of these schools will want to add that. But then again, how smart, and fiscally responsible is taking 10 grand out of your recruiting, equipment or other budget to fly to Huntsville? Plenty of D-I basketball and football leagues maintain a decent bus friendly footprint. There is no reason this hockey conference shouldn't.

The WCHA (and CCHA) stoped being "bus friendly" the minute each admitted Alaska-fillintheblank. You can't claim the bus league card when two schools are 3,000 miles from everyone else.

Also, $10k? You think that $10k is a huge amount? Of an overall half million + dollar budget? Again, do teams actually want to be D-I, or should the WCHA become another cost-containment league like AHA? Bemidji State needed to raise $5 million 5 years ago or they were going to drop hockey. They got it done. Moorhead got $15 mil in commitments on the rumor of a team. In the worst economy in 80 years. No one said it would be easy, especially in Michigan where the economy is even worse than the rest of the country, but if you can't fund-raise an extra $10,000 a year for one more flight somewhere, again, maybe cost containment or D-II is where you should be playing.

 

[LSSULaker889294]

Re: The New WCHA (2013-14)

Will UAH fold after 2012-13 if the WCHA rejects them?

 

[uaafanblog]

Re: The New WCHA (2013-14)

No idea is to stupid to suggest here except for a 16 game conference schedule but that's already covered.

Because a 28 game schedule for Wisconsin in the old WCHA was cumbersome according to Almington but a 28 game schedule cannot possibly be cumbersome for UAA and UAF in the new WCHA.

What exactly is your reason for continuing to post in this thread? You got no horse in this show. And your "interest" is best served by reading. Go comment in the Big 10 thread. You won't find me there.

 

[Squarebanks]

How much time before the start of the first game do you want to be able to leave?

Random fact...back in November, Ferris State walked off a plane in Fairbanks almost exactly 24 hours before the puck dropped Friday night. They also got shut out, but that is neither here nor there. Much like this post.

Carry on.

 

[manurespreader]

Re: The New WCHA (2013-14)

I think you missed a point here gentlemen. It's not the cost so much as it is the time. We can fly for somewhat more if we do it right. And the time issue goes away.

 

[Almington]

Re: The New WCHA (2013-14)

Because a 28 game schedule for Wisconsin in the old WCHA was cumbersome according to Almington but a 28 game schedule cannot possibly be cumbersome for UAA and UAF in the new WCHA.

The point of a conference isn't just the auto bid, it is the scheduling agreement. The assurance that you will actually get games to play. Having only 40 to 45% of the games be conference games defeats one of the main purposes of having a conference in the first place. Only having 6 NC games might be limiting for UA_, but having 20 or 22 NC games to schedule would be a giant pain for the other 7 teams in the conference. If you want to be a member of a conference you either accept what the majority of the conference wants or you leave the conference, which is exactly how things got to this point.

What exactly is your reason for continuing to post in this thread? You got no horse in this show. And your "interest" is best served by reading. Go comment in the Big 10 thread. You won't find me there.

Because I do worry about what will happen to MTU, BSU, and MSUM; good programs with good fans that I want to survive. The fact that it seems to annoy you (and only you) to no end is just an added bonus.

 

[MUhawks628]

Re: The New WCHA (2013-14)

The MAC is a very bus friendly league as well. Should they add a team well outside their cost friendly footprint?

Temple (peace bros). UMass.


I guess football only is a different animal though.

 

[UAHStatman]

Re: The New WCHA (2013-14)

Will UAH fold after 2012-13 if the WCHA rejects them?

Possibly...some would say likely. I personally hope that, as our last gasp, we try to get into Atlantic in that case.

 

[scsutommyboy]

Re: The New WCHA (2013-14)

Possibly...some would say likely. I personally hope that, as our last gasp, we try to get into Atlantic in that case.

The AHA schools won't want to go to UAH either. hell they are even cheaper than the WCHA schools.

 

[uaafanblog]

Re: The New WCHA (2013-14)

The point of a conference isn't just the auto bid, it is the scheduling agreement. The assurance that you will actually get games to play. Having only 40 to 45% of the games be conference games defeats one of the main purposes of having a conference in the first place. Only having 6 NC games might be limiting for UA_, but having 20 or 22 NC games to schedule would be a giant pain for the other 7 teams in the conference.

Because they CANT POSSIBLY just fill their non-conference schedules with other conference opponents. ZERO pain if that's what any member is looking for. Flexibility to maximize any other combination as each unique school chooses. Big 10 apologists and supporters of the inequitable status quo like you are simply unable to consider anything outside your current situation.

If you want to be a member of a conference you either accept what the majority of the conference wants or you leave the conference, which is exactly how things got to this point.

It is far from that cut and dried in this environment. There already has been and will continue to be give and take amongst the conference members to arrive at their as yet agreed p's and q's.

Because I do worry about what will happen to MTU, BSU, and MSUM; good programs with good fans that I want to survive.

I exist because provinically minded jerks like you could give a crap about UAA and UAF's potential for success.

The fact that it seems to annoy you (and only you) to no end is just an added bonus.

Your ambition to become a mosquito is fulfilled then!!! Hooray for you.

 

[aparch]

Re: The New WCHA (2013-14)

Because they CANT POSSIBLY just fill their non-conference schedules with other conference opponents.

You really don't realize how idiotic that is, right?

Did you miss my comments on that about two pages ago.

IF a 16 game conference schedule is created just to appease you, I sure hope you enjoy playing the remaining 18 games against UAF.

20 games against UAF a year where just TWO games against them actually count for something other than di** waving pride. What a *ing joke of a "conference" you want.

 

[aparch]

Re: The New WCHA (2013-14)

Possibly...some would say likely. I personally hope that, as our last gasp, we try to get into Atlantic in that case.

Has there been ANY push by one or two of the local ACHA teams to actually step up to the NCAA Division 1 level for hockey? They all said that they "strive to be what UAH is..." but then they seem content to play amongst themselves in the ACHA level. Even so far as banning UAH admission to their conference if UAH had stepped down to ACHA level.

 

[aparch]

Re: The New WCHA (2013-14)

Moose97, davyd83 I was just throwing out the additional time as an option. I'm fully aware that it's not the smartest plan, but I'm just trying to be supportive and throw some options on the table.

 

[JohnsonsJerseys]

Re: The New WCHA (2013-14)

Why the WCHA? Why not the new league? They need more teams.

I'm not saying that the Nacho doesn't need teams but I'm being realistic. Look at the teams they left behind and then compare UAH to those teams? My conclusion is that UAH has 0.000001% chance of getting in that conference.

If you notice, most of the people that think the WCHA should do the right thing, are fans of a leftover. I think the WCHA should do the right thing because they are the WCHA, F the B1G Mistake and NCHC, they can chase money, we'll be fine doing the right thing...I don't really see how its such a huge deal overall.

I agree with SG, just because other teams look out for their own interests, doesn't mean that's what every other team should do. I'm not saying you mortgage the future of the WCHA to make this happen, but I think something as simple as "WCHA scheduled non-conference games" would do wonders for UAH. Isn't this how Mankato got rolling? Besides, if everyone other D-I team jumped off a bridge...

Why is it up to the WCHA to do what everyone keeps calling the "right thing"? Did the Big Ten do the "right thing"? Did the NCHC do the "right thing"? No one ever gives me a good answer to why, they just keep saying it....... It is the Big Ten and the NCHC that will have the $$$$$ after all this shakes out, they will be in a better position to do the "right thing".

You just gave the two best reasons why the WCHA should help UAH - because those that could, won't.

Indeed. The Big 10 does need more teams. It only has 6.

UAH is not a Bi6Ten school in any other sport, so they wouldn't get into the conference even if they offered every other school $10M a year to play them.

Ryan J

 

[moose97]

Re: The New WCHA (2013-14)

I'm not saying you mortgage the future of the WCHA to make this happen, but I think something as simple as "WCHA scheduled non-conference games" would do wonders for UAH. Isn't this how Mankato got rolling?

You're thinking of Bemidji State. UMD and MSU scheduled BSU every year from '99-'00 through them joining the WCHA last year. UND had BSU on the schedule most years, and SCSU and UMinn every now and then. In addition, the WCHA had announced a scheduling agreement with BSU ~ a year and a half before officially admitting them to the conference.

 

[davyd83]

Re: The New WCHA (2013-14)

Has there been ANY push by one or two of the local ACHA teams to actually step up to the NCAA Division 1 level for hockey? They all said that they "strive to be what UAH is..." but then they seem content to play amongst themselves in the ACHA level. Even so far as banning UAH admission to their conference if UAH had stepped down to ACHA level.

Though 'Bama supporters have said their ultimate goal is to be an NCAA team it is unlikely to happen. They don't have a rink in Tuscaloosa, and would at least need to have a practice facility and then play games in Birmingham or Pelham. I am fully convinced that teams could do well at LSU, Tennessee, Kentucky, Georgia and Auburn, although Georgia too would have facility issues. Texas Tech would be very supportive as well. But chances are remote that it will ever happen.