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The Michigan OT Goal

Re: The Michigan OT Goal

If the situation was reversed, I'm quite sure the MI fans would be complaining it was no goal. It's very hard to tell, just a ****ty way to end a game.

Funny, last year in the Regional Final against Miami it was called no goal, and it was even more clearly in the net. Yes, we were ****ed but just happy to be there. Last year we didn't earn it in the regular season, Hunwick had to play ot of his mind. Last year was fun!!!!!!!!!!!!! No pressure, just fun!
 
Re: The Michigan OT Goal

I truly enjoyed the ESPNU intermission crew saying that they never saw a good video shot of the play.....they didn't once show the video from the opposite goal, which (imo) clearly showed the puck in the net. I guess it makes better TV to say 'Contoversial Goal sends UM to Regional Finals' than 'OT Goal sends UM to Regional Finals!'

And UM fans, it might not matter, but I'm not sure you can find a Miami fan to say that you deserved the FF last year. Miami got away with one...you know it. Just wanted you to know we know it too. Best of luck today.
 
Re: The Michigan OT Goal

This argument will rage for another 6 hours until CC destroys UM and renders it moot. If UNO couldn't get past Bemidji, and CC took UND to OT, UNO wasn't getting past CC. And,yes, I was at the Dec. game when UNO beat CC. Different teams now.
 
Re: The Michigan OT Goal

I've always liked Michigan, but from what ESPNU showed me, I have yet to see a definitive shot where you can clearly see the puck completely across the goal line.
 
Re: The Michigan OT Goal

This argument will rage for another 6 hours until CC destroys UM and renders it moot. If UNO couldn't get past Bemidji, and CC took UND to OT, UNO wasn't getting past CC. And,yes, I was at the Dec. game when UNO beat CC. Different teams now.

I'm not guaranteeing victory but Michigan already beat CC this year.
 
Re: The Michigan OT Goal

I truly enjoyed the ESPNU intermission crew saying that they never saw a good video shot of the play.....they didn't once show the video from the opposite goal, which (imo) clearly showed the puck in the net. I guess it makes better TV to say 'Contoversial Goal sends UM to Regional Finals' than 'OT Goal sends UM to Regional Finals!'

And UM fans, it might not matter, but I'm not sure you can find a Miami fan to say that you deserved the FF last year. Miami got away with one...you know it. Just wanted you to know we know it too. Best of luck today.

Thank you. Most Miami fans that I have encountered are classy. Maybe that has something to do with the terrific academics Miami has. uno has a bunch of dolts and that is evident through their posters. I was just happy to make the NCAA's last year, as were most Michigan fans. Sure, I disagreed with the call last year but oh well. Good luck to you as well, may we meet in the NC game!
 
Re: The Michigan OT Goal

Here's where it is.

1. It is more likely than not, in my judgment, that the puck was over the line before the whistle blew. By "more likely than not," I mean the probability exceeds 50%.

2. The ruling on the ice was no goal.

3. In order for an on-ice ruling to be overturned, there must be "conclusive video evidence."

4. Conclusive means "ending all disagreement." This means, presumably, among reasonable, objective people. Therefore, if the video evidence presented in the scorer's bench is so clear as to end all disagreement among reasonable people, then the call on the ice may be overturned.

5. As I read the rules, the officials may review the play with "all available facilities," and if Piotrowski (a long-time CCHA official) said only the overhead was reviewed, he was wrong. The only shots anyone (M fans, PxP guys, etc.) contend show a goal are the 200-foot shot from the other end of the ice, and those shots were clearly on the monitor in the scorer's bench during the review period.

6. In my judgment, as a UNO fan, those shots confirm my belief that there is a greater than 50% chance that the puck was in the net.

7. I do not, however, believe "greater than 50% chance" is sufficient to meet the standard. I think "conclusive" is much closer to 100% probability.

8. Piotrowski's comments were inarticulate and should not have been made. If they had to have been made, someone without a multi-year tie to the CCHA should have made them. I do not contend this made a difference in the outcome.

9. What we have here is result-oriented officiating. On seing the overhead shots, I suspect the refs thought the same way I do: "It's probably in," and the natural tendency is to try to confirm your hypothesis with the evidence. Scientists call this "confirmation bias." I do not ascribe bad intentions to the referees. I do, however, believe they acted in the absence of "conclusive" evidence, assuming (and this is far from obvious) that words the NCAA uses have the same meanings that normal people would expect. (See: Fighting Sioux vs. Fighting Irish).

10. So maybe it's the legitimate result reached by an illegitimate decision process. I do not find this to be trivial or harmless. At the same time, nothing will change the result now. I believe Michigan played well and cleanly, and is as deserving as UNO of the win. I congratulate them.

11. I note with some amusement a sense of entitlement among M fans on this thread and elsewhere, in this case, an entitlement to unanimous acclamation of the legitimacy of the win, and a presumption that anyone who doesn't join in a chorus of The Victors has an axe to grind with Michigan. My amusement comes from the fact that they do this without a speck of detectable irony.
 
Re: The Michigan OT Goal

Funny, last year in the Regional Final against Miami it was called no goal, and it was even more clearly in the net. Yes, we were ****ed but just happy to be there. Last year we didn't earn it in the regular season, Hunwick had to play ot of his mind. Last year was fun!!!!!!!!!!!!! No pressure, just fun!

last year it was a no goal due to an inadvertant whistle, not due to whether it had crossed the line or not
 
Re: The Michigan OT Goal

Here's where it is.

1. It is more likely than not, in my judgment, that the puck was over the line before the whistle blew. By "more likely than not," I mean the probability exceeds 50%.

2. The ruling on the ice was no goal.

3. In order for an on-ice ruling to be overturned, there must be "conclusive video evidence."

4. Conclusive means "ending all disagreement." This means, presumably, among reasonable, objective people. Therefore, if the video evidence presented in the scorer's bench is so clear as to end all disagreement among reasonable people, then the call on the ice may be overturned.

5. As I read the rules, the officials may review the play with "all available facilities," and if Piotrowski (a long-time CCHA official) said only the overhead was reviewed, he was wrong. The only shots anyone (M fans, PxP guys, etc.) contend show a goal are the 200-foot shot from the other end of the ice, and those shots were clearly on the monitor in the scorer's bench during the review period.

6. In my judgment, as a UNO fan, those shots confirm my belief that there is a greater than 50% chance that the puck was in the net.

7. I do not, however, believe "greater than 50% chance" is sufficient to meet the standard. I think "conclusive" is much closer to 100% probability.

8. Piotrowski's comments were inarticulate and should not have been made. If they had to have been made, someone without a multi-year tie to the CCHA should have made them. I do not contend this made a difference in the outcome.

9. What we have here is result-oriented officiating. On seing the overhead shots, I suspect the refs thought the same way I do: "It's probably in," and the natural tendency is to try to confirm your hypothesis with the evidence. Scientists call this "confirmation bias." I do not ascribe bad intentions to the referees. I do, however, believe they acted in the absence of "conclusive" evidence, assuming (and this is far from obvious) that words the NCAA uses have the same meanings that normal people would expect. (See: Fighting Sioux vs. Fighting Irish).

10. So maybe it's the legitimate result reached by an illegitimate decision process. I do not find this to be trivial or harmless. At the same time, nothing will change the result now. I believe Michigan played well and cleanly, and is as deserving as UNO of the win. I congratulate them.

11. I note with some amusement a sense of entitlement among M fans on this thread and elsewhere, in this case, an entitlement to unanimous acclamation of the legitimacy of the win, and a presumption that anyone who doesn't join in a chorus of The Victors has an axe to grind with Michigan. My amusement comes from the fact that they do this without a speck of detectable irony.

mavrick= best UNO hockey fan ever, definately NOT a "newbie" ;)
 
Here's where it is.

1. It is more likely than not, in my judgment, that the puck was over the line before the whistle blew. By "more likely than not," I mean the probability exceeds 50%.

2. The ruling on the ice was no goal.

3. In order for an on-ice ruling to be overturned, there must be "conclusive video evidence."

4. Conclusive means "ending all disagreement." This means, presumably, among reasonable, objective people. Therefore, if the video evidence presented in the scorer's bench is so clear as to end all disagreement among reasonable people, then the call on the ice may be overturned.

5. As I read the rules, the officials may review the play with "all available facilities," and if Piotrowski (a long-time CCHA official) said only the overhead was reviewed, he was wrong. The only shots anyone (M fans, PxP guys, etc.) contend show a goal are the 200-foot shot from the other end of the ice, and those shots were clearly on the monitor in the scorer's bench during the review period.

6. In my judgment, as a UNO fan, those shots confirm my belief that there is a greater than 50% chance that the puck was in the net.

7. I do not, however, believe "greater than 50% chance" is sufficient to meet the standard. I think "conclusive" is much closer to 100% probability.

8. Piotrowski's comments were inarticulate and should not have been made. If they had to have been made, someone without a multi-year tie to the CCHA should have made them. I do not contend this made a difference in the outcome.

9. What we have here is result-oriented officiating. On seing the overhead shots, I suspect the refs thought the same way I do: "It's probably in," and the natural tendency is to try to confirm your hypothesis with the evidence. Scientists call this "confirmation bias." I do not ascribe bad intentions to the referees. I do, however, believe they acted in the absence of "conclusive" evidence, assuming (and this is far from obvious) that words the NCAA uses have the same meanings that normal people would expect. (See: Fighting Sioux vs. Fighting Irish).

10. So maybe it's the legitimate result reached by an illegitimate decision process. I do not find this to be trivial or harmless. At the same time, nothing will change the result now. I believe Michigan played well and cleanly, and is as deserving as UNO of the win. I congratulate them.

11. I note with some amusement a sense of entitlement among M fans on this thread and elsewhere, in this case, an entitlement to unanimous acclamation of the legitimacy of the win, and a presumption that anyone who doesn't join in a chorus of The Victors has an axe to grind with Michigan. My amusement comes from the fact that they do this without a speck of detectable irony.

Overhead also shows the puck under his skate and over the line. At this point, I don't think there's really even any indecision about whether or not the puck went in, just people complaining about how they didn't think the video evidence was definitive enough. And even some of those people have changed their tune today once the posted videos allowed them to replay it and pick out the same proof the refs saw yesterday after analyzing for 10 minutes.
 
I guess you could assume that. Its hard for me to make the call without being able to see what they supposedly could see.

Ok one fact we can all agree on- the ref called it a goal. So there is no assumption- HE saw enough to overturn the call.

Fact, fact, fact- whether you like it or not that happened.
 
Re: The Michigan OT Goal

My first reaction was that I thought I couldn't see it, but it looked like it stayed on the line. But then they brought in more views, and the cross-ice one, closely analyzed, is indisputable.

I said as they were reviewing that it's a hard call to make, and if Michigan wins, it's a tough way to lose for UNO. We forget the origins of the play--it was a random bounce off of a UNO defender's skate. An inelegant end to a magnificent game.

But I'll take it. After Michigan's decade of playoff overtime agony, I'll take it.
 
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