The "I Can't Believe There's No Abortion Thread" Abortion Thread

[trixR4kids]

Re: The "I Can't Believe There's No Abortion Thread" Abortion Thread

I was on them for years for this reason. My sister was prescribed at age 16 after laying on the floor unable to move at school from cramps.

I don’t care that Brent thinks this way. What I care about are the men who are in positions to make laws about women’s health and pull this BS.

Agreed, though it's people like Brent who vote for those morons.

 

[Kepler]

Re: The "I Can't Believe There's No Abortion Thread" Abortion Thread

Agreed, though it's people like Brent who vote for those morons.

I doubt this is a make or break with Brent. Now, his holding of this view is likely consonant with other views which lock him in thrall to the Republicans, and that sucks for him but far more for us. But this view itself... meh. I'm far more tolerant on this because my parents held just this view of abortion and even birth control. They didn't cotton to the rest of the conservative bilge and to my knowledge neither ever voted for a Republican again after Reagan showed them the vacuity of that party and its mindset.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: The "I Can't Believe There's No Abortion Thread" Abortion Thread

Partly because being against birth control for non-religious reasons is a "does not compute" moment. If not for religion, then why would anyone be against it?

And partly because he opened with this: "You make that sort of decision (the sex) you deal with ALL the consequences."

As much as he later said he wouldn't impose that standard on anyone else, that statement is hard to read as anything other than commanding others what to do.

100% agree

Also, it's a discussion board. If you don't want to be open to both praise and criticism, maybe it's best not to share. I don't share all of what I think, hard as that is to believe. I'm sure we all do that.

Why share if not to discuss?

 

[Kepler]

Re: The "I Can't Believe There's No Abortion Thread" Abortion Thread

100% agree

Also, it's a discussion board. If you don't want to be open to both praise and criticism, maybe it's best not to share. I don't share all of what I think, hard as that is to believe. I'm sure we all do that.

Why share if not to discuss?

Theoretically at least if you ask somebody a question and they answer it that's not an invitation for us to then criticize the answer. But if somebody is touchy (or private) about something like that this may not be the best forum for that answer. I believe Bob Gray did in fact say a few times "I believe x but I don't wish to discuss it." He was pilloried for it, as one might reasonably predict, but it is at least a logically consistent position to take.

Personally the things I don't want to talk about I don't talk about and I don't join in when they are discussed. I know the limits of my ability to function somewhat maturely on a message board and some things are well beyond them.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: The "I Can't Believe There's No Abortion Thread" Abortion Thread

I was on them for years for this reason. My sister was prescribed at age 16 after laying on the floor unable to move at school from cramps.

I don’t care that Brent thinks this way. What I care about are the men who are in positions to make laws about women’s health and pull this BS.

I found out that birth control wasn't just for birth control back in college. I've been lucky enough to live with female roommates basically since sophomore year all the way to today. I had no idea back in high school that birth control was used to treat a number of issues. Hell, many women I know take birth control even if they aren't sexually active just from a maintenance standpoint (their words) is they don't get their period every month.

Like you said, it's a women's health issue and it should be just that. The law should have no bearing on how and whether women are prescribed this or any other medicine.

Could you imagine the uproar if we started controlling dick pills like we do birth control?

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: The "I Can't Believe There's No Abortion Thread" Abortion Thread

I doubt this is a make or break with Brent. Now, his holding of this view is likely consonant with other views which lock him in thrall to the Republicans, and that sucks for him but far more for us. But this view itself... meh. I'm far more tolerant on this because my parents held just this view of abortion and even birth control. They didn't cotton to the rest of the conservative bilge and to my knowledge neither ever voted for a Republican again after Reagan showed them the vacuity of that party and its mindset.

I'm sorry but trix is 100% right. Education is the only way to purge these patriarchal and ignorant mindsets from the voters. If it's no longer an issue, maybe we can refocus our efforts on new areas.

 

[ericredaxe]

Re: The "I Can't Believe There's No Abortion Thread" Abortion Thread

I’m still cracking up about the loophole.

“Fifth Base”

Although the whole thing would have been funnier if they kept the chorous of the song more subtle.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: The "I Can't Believe There's No Abortion Thread" Abortion Thread

Theoretically at least if you ask somebody a question and they answer it that's not an invitation for us to then criticize the answer. But if somebody is touchy (or private) about something like that this may not be the best forum for that answer. I believe Bob Gray did in fact say a few times "I believe x but I don't wish to discuss it." He was pilloried for it, as one might reasonably predict, but it is at least a logically consistent position to take.

Personally the things I don't want to talk about I don't talk about and I don't join in when they are discussed. I know the limits of my ability to function somewhat maturely on a message board and some things are well beyond them.

That’s fair. On the other hand, it’s a freakin’ discussion board. If you don’t want to discuss, don’t.

Personally, if there’s a greater truth to be had, I’d like to know. So if I say something ignorant, I’d like to be corrected.

 

[trixR4kids]

I doubt this is a make or break with Brent. Now, his holding of this view is likely consonant with other views which lock him in thrall to the Republicans, and that sucks for him but far more for us. But this view itself... meh. I'm far more tolerant on this because my parents held just this view of abortion and even birth control. They didn't cotton to the rest of the conservative bilge and to my knowledge neither ever voted for a Republican again after Reagan showed them the vacuity of that party and its mindset.

In this case it’s pretty benign because he doesn’t seem interested in forcing these views on others but you kinda have to wonder how knowledgeable he is on this issue in terms of women’s health and how this issue affects it. Thinking that someone doesn’t love you because they want that time of the month to instead be that time of the monthS, avoid cramping, so they can genuinely plan prenatal care, or control their acne among a variety of different reasons... is a somewhat harmful view to hold for a number of reasons. And while I don’t think it was the reason Trumo got elected, it is important to deal with ridiculous/harmful arguments and call them out rather than just letting them go unchallenged. Sometimes other people need to see how ridiculous an argument is even if they’re just lurking or whatever.

Now I would agree that taking it a step further and being more interested in shaming than teaching is also harmful and more likely to entrench people in their views. But I think he should at least take the time to try and understand and educate himself on these issues because that’s clearly lacking from what I can tell here.

 

[WisconsinWildcard]

Re: The "I Can't Believe There's No Abortion Thread" Abortion Thread

There's also the Natural Family Planning options. My fiancée wants to use the Creighton Method, based largely upon she being Catholic. It's a way to obey the Church and still not have an old Irish-sized family.

Ah the rhythm method. In the medical field we call those people parents.

 

[Kepler]

Re: The "I Can't Believe There's No Abortion Thread" Abortion Thread

So if I say something ignorant, I’d like to be corrected.

That comma is unnecessary.

 

[WisconsinWildcard]

Re: The "I Can't Believe There's No Abortion Thread" Abortion Thread

That comma is unnecessary.

Must spread rep...

 

[Kepler]

Re: The "I Can't Believe There's No Abortion Thread" Abortion Thread

In this case it’s pretty benign because he doesn’t seem interested in forcing these views on others but you kinda have to wonder how knowledgeable he is on this issue in terms of women’s health and how this issue affects it. Thinking that someone doesn’t love you because they want that time of the month to instead be that time of the monthS, avoid cramping, so they can genuinely plan prenatal care, or control their acne among a variety of different reasons... is a somewhat harmful view to hold for a number of reasons. And while I don’t think it was the reason Trumo got elected, it is important to deal with ridiculous/harmful arguments and call them out rather than just letting them go unchallenged. Sometimes other people need to see how ridiculous an argument is even if they’re just lurking or whatever.

Now I would agree that taking it a step further and being more interested in shaming than teaching is also harmful and more likely to entrench people in their views. But I think he should at least take the time to try and understand and educate himself on these issues because that’s clearly lacking from what I can tell here.

I agree completely. I think if Brent was aware just how important birth control medication is to women for other reasons than sex, and if he considered all the loving sexual relationships that exist that are not procreative, he might amend his views. Or he might not, but we could all use the education so I hope everybody keeps sharing even at the risk of getting sliced and diced by some of we who are none too careful with our scalpels.

 

[Stauber1]

Re: The "I Can't Believe There's No Abortion Thread" Abortion Thread

The last question I posed was out of genuine curiosity and I'm trying not to further pile on at this point. I really can't blame anyone for their initial reactions to that though.

But there are other issues at play with this philosophy specifically as it relates to women. Birth control is a personal health issue for one. It also doesn't really compute that they should have to give it up potentially sacrificing their health in some cases to truly love someone...

It's not just a personal health issue (though that is probably what it is first). It is also a public health and economic issue.
As was so often the case, Hitchens put it best.

Reliable birth control was one of the most important breakthroughs in modern history. To write it off because it somehow just "seems" wrong to your sensibilities is utterly ridiculous.

That's not even addressing the other areas bc can be found to be beneficial to women, on which I'm not really sure what Brent's take would be.
If you take the pill to address issues of menstruation, but are not sexually active, perhaps this is ok by Brent.
Or maybe if you are going to be female, you need to accept all the natural implications of that. Who knows?

And if you are going to travel to Brazil, you should be ready to accept all the potential results. So no yellow fever vaccination.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: The "I Can't Believe There's No Abortion Thread" Abortion Thread

That comma is unnecessary.

Urge to kill rising.

 

[unofan]

Re: The "I Can't Believe There's No Abortion Thread" Abortion Thread

I believe Bob Gray did in fact say a few times "I believe x but I don't wish to discuss it."

A few times? That's quite the understatement.

 

[bronconick]

Re: The "I Can't Believe There's No Abortion Thread" Abortion Thread

A few times? That's quite the understatement.

And any comment about led directly to him hanging himself on a cross.

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: The "I Can't Believe There's No Abortion Thread" Abortion Thread

so, you must spend a lot of time on porn hub? or you're spending a ton on child support for a dozen unwanted kids

The internet isn't really something that nature intended, I'm guessing Brent doesn't use it.

Then, as Brent stated, you suffer the consequences. He's a vengeful God. Don't mess with him.

For all the nasty, senile rants he used to post here, occasionally Old Pio sure did hit the nail on the head about, "The ladies of the chorale". You three, and dx, really need to get a grip. Brent can be wrong (and on this topic, he is), but that doesn't mean you need to delve into non-sequiturs.

 

[The Rube]

Re: The "I Can't Believe There's No Abortion Thread" Abortion Thread

Why is everybody on here assailing Brent for holding a different view? The man said he's not forcing his decisions on anyone else - he's not trying to affect public policy. He put it out there, end of story. It's one thing to have a general curiosity about it, but it really reads like piling on at this point. Carryover from another thread where he's the ideological outcast?

Thank you.

Edit: Fade: I'm not wrong, IMO. If I were forcing others to hold my views, THEN I'd be wrong.

 

[The Rube]

Re: The "I Can't Believe There's No Abortion Thread" Abortion Thread

Agreed, though it's people like Brent who vote for those morons.

If birth control is prescribed for other reasons, fine with that. I can understand that. That is totally acceptable.