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The "I Can't Believe There's No Abortion Thread" Abortion Thread

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manurespreader said:
well B S. Three times over. i'm, not buying that a zygote is a person. and fyi if pp get's defunded, they will never have so much money, just look at some of the other organizations that since the election are rolling in it.
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You (and a whole bunch) aren't and me (and a whole bunch) are. There lies the fundamental difference and the great, uncompromising divide.

One of us is right and the other is wrong. Until we can somehow understand the soul we'll never know which side is correct.
 
Re: The "I Can't Believe There's No Abortion Thread" Abortion Thread

joecct said:
You (and a whole bunch) aren't and me (and a whole bunch) are. There lies the fundamental difference and the great, uncompromising divide.

One of us is right and the other is wrong. Until we can somehow understand the soul we'll never know which side is correct.
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So, we have to understand something that doesn't exist scientifically to understand something scientific?

Just more proof science is dead.
 
Re: The "I Can't Believe There's No Abortion Thread" Abortion Thread

Jimjamesak said:
Where do Republicans put most of their energy? Anti-abortion, cutting education funding, getting rid of programs to help the poor, and boosting defense funding.

Yeah, live babies to be dead soldiers.
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You forgot anti-environmental legislation.
 
Re: The "I Can't Believe There's No Abortion Thread" Abortion Thread

ScoobyDoo said:
So, we have to understand something that doesn't exist scientifically to understand something scientific?
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But what does that mean? Personally I am cautious on that specific line of argument because it seems to follow discarding all things unproven, which isn't a terribly scientific approach, as to me, it would preclude many of the great leaps forward in scientific thought. It is difficult to deny in an argument that there are all sorts of things science hadn't shown to exist in the past, but now has. Many of them quite surprising. Quantum entanglement is bizarre, for example. Science is a long ways from explaining just how the universe works and many possible theories exist, a lot of them pretty wild...
Here lies the spot where a fake story was linked to.
Of course it's also entirely possible none of you exist and I am simply talking to myself, or vice versa, which sort of renders the whole point moot. :)
 
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Re: The "I Can't Believe There's No Abortion Thread" Abortion Thread

Hawking has been so anti-ID and deeply atheist, I'm not sure what caused his change of mind. Science has explanations for what happens in the brain after we die. The electrochemical processes that take place can cause us to see things in our mind. He knows this.
 
Re: The "I Can't Believe There's No Abortion Thread" Abortion Thread

Wisko McBadgerton said:
Even Hawking seems to have become unresolved on some possibilities of late.
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I don't know the full story of this, but given the source I am willing to bet this is cherry-picked, distorted, and wildly taken out of context.

And with two minutes research... yeah.

However the rumours are entirely false. There have been no verified reports that Stephen Hawking has made any claims. In fact in 2014 Hawking has announced that he is an atheist, and he does not believe in any god or “god-like force”.

The story seems to have first appeared on World News Daily Report which is a popular fake news website which deals exclusively with starting rumours such as this.
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To be fair, it's not distorted. It's just made up.

You've been pwned by a fake news site.

ID is so spectacularly rationally bankrupt and intellectually insincere that nobody with two brain cells to rub together falls for it.

Jesus, at least Area 51 cranks have a plausible hypothesis.
 
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Re: The "I Can't Believe There's No Abortion Thread" Abortion Thread

Check again, I'm pretty sure that's a fake news site. Other headlines are suspect.
 
Re: The "I Can't Believe There's No Abortion Thread" Abortion Thread

dxmnkd316 said:
Hawking has been so anti-ID and deeply atheist, I'm not sure what caused his change of mind. Science has explanations for what happens in the brain after we die. The electrochemical processes that take place can cause us to see things in our mind. He knows this.
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See below (above?). It's a fake news story that somebody here fell for.

Neurologists have fully explained the "light and the tunnel" phenomenon, just as they've explained that if you fast long enough you don't see God, you hallucinate because your brain is freaking out.

I wish theists were strong enough in their belief in the supernatural not to lie about this stuff. The whole point of the supernatural is the super part. God is a really cool human concept: something that is outside of time, space, and causality. That means God doesn't even interract with the natural world, otherwise He would be inside it. So next comes the invention of Christ -- God's drone in the natural world.

That's a beautiful and interesting hunk of human art. Don't gum it up with all this tawdry garbage and pseudo-scientific goo. Keep the mass in Latin and keep God in Heaven, you nincompoops. :p

It's a sad day when it takes an atheist to tell the theists that they're missing the whole f-cking ontology of their religion.
 
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Re: The "I Can't Believe There's No Abortion Thread" Abortion Thread

LynahFan said:
If Republicans put any actual energy into opposing abortion, it would be illegal. 33 Governorships, 67 (of 98) state legislature houses, and both chambers of Congress.
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Not really though, because the supreme court has already ruled on this... The Republicans just chip away at it... laws requiring unnecessary vaginal ultrasounds, unnecessary hospital admitting privileges etc etc, you can see where their motivations lie.
 
Re: The "I Can't Believe There's No Abortion Thread" Abortion Thread

Kepler said:
You've been pwned by a fake news site.
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Thanks. Yikes. How does this stuff make it to the top of search results? I just was looking up some sciency stuff on quantum mechanics and that was in the results so I added as a surprising afterthought. It only even seemed somewhat feasible because Hawking has changed his mind on other things from time to time. mea culpa.
 
Re: The "I Can't Believe There's No Abortion Thread" Abortion Thread

Wisko McBadgerton said:
Thanks. Yikes. How does this stuff make it to the top of search results? I just was looking up some sciency stuff on quantum mechanics and that was in the results so I added as a surprising afterthought. It only even seemed somewhat feasible because Hawking has changed his mind on other things from time to time. mea culpa.
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Don't sweat it, we have all been there.
 
ScoobyDoo said:
Awesome.
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Still won't go anywhere until Kennedy, RBG, or Breyer leaves.

Roe is definitely safe until then, and potentially past then since I'd wager even Roberts would blanch at a blanket repeal.

The only solid votes for repealing are Thomas and Alito, and presumably Trump's replacement for Scalia.
 
Re: The "I Can't Believe There's No Abortion Thread" Abortion Thread

joecct said:
You (and a whole bunch) aren't and me (and a whole bunch) are. There lies the fundamental difference and the great, uncompromising divide.

One of us is right and the other is wrong. Until we can somehow understand the soul we'll never know which side is correct.
Click to expand...

I don't look at it quite that way. I think the only person who knows for sure is God and since nobody here is him/her I think it's very presumptuous to think we are By assuming we know the answer and shoving our version of religion onto someone else.
 
Re: The "I Can't Believe There's No Abortion Thread" Abortion Thread

Joecct comes from a black-and-white, pre-V2 brand of Catholicism. A world in which what the local priest or vicar says, is in lockstep with the Pope. If the Pope sh*ts in the woods, so does the local priest. Known divorcees do not get communion, outed gays do not get communion, etc.

These days, it's well known there are Catholic parishes that are a bit more liberal and ecumenical than others. My parents' parish is a great example - Fr. Joe preaches a rather socialist message, while still toeing the line on Rome's pro-life views. I have to figure he really likes Francis.

He's also tried to sneak into the local bible church to see what the big deal is, and why he's losing members to them (particularly young people). And was recognized and called out by the minister there. :p

Fr. Joe and Catholicism's problem is that they are too steeped in rituals. Religious people my age are largely dissatisfied by that - we care about messages, not pompous ceremonies with fancy robes and gold cups that were developed to cow the uneducated into submission. Joecct can complain about the "Church of Nice" all he wants, but this is the 21st century reality.
 
FadeToBlack&Gold said:
Joecct comes from a black-and-white, pre-V2 brand of Catholicism. A world in which what the local priest or vicar says, is in lockstep with the Pope. If the Pope sh*ts in the woods, so does the local priest. Known divo1rcees do not get communion, outed gays do not get communion, etc.

These days, it's well known there are Catholic parishes that are a bit more liberal and ecumenical than others. My parents' parish is a great example - Fr. Joe preaches a rather socialist message, while still toeing the line on Rome's pro-life views. I have to figure he really likes Francis.

He's also tried to sneak into the local bible church to see what the big deal is, and why he's losing members to them (particularly young people). And was recognized and called out by the minister there. :p

Fr. Joe and Catholicism's problem is that they are too steeped in rituals. Religious people my age are largely dissatisfied by that - we care about messages, not pompous ceremonies with fancy robes and gold cups that were developed to cow the uneducated into submission. Joecct can complain about the "Church of Nice" all he wants, but this is the 21st century reality.
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Truth is not subject to a majority vote. Either it's right or wrong. I'm not personally a big fan of grey.

And in terms of Catholic Mass attendance, look where the Church of Nice got us?
 
manurespreader said:
I don't look at it quite that way. I think the only person who knows for sure is God and since nobody here is him/her I think it's very presumptuous to think we are By assuming we know the answer and shoving our version of religion onto someone else.
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This of course assumes that a god exists, which is also something that nobody knows for sure.
 
Re: The "I Can't Believe There's No Abortion Thread" Abortion Thread

joecct said:
And in terms of Catholic Mass attendance, look where the Church of Nice got us?
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As I think we have discussed before, you and I are in total agreement here.

The Church is, quite simply, an authoritarian entity. Christianity itself is authoritarian: the Word is the truth and you don't get to do anything but, at most, think up new ways to applaud the tyrant's magnanimity.

We live in a world of analytical reasoning, scientific method, and the triumph of reason. If you inject that into religion you get small beer that nobody wants. The entire point of religion -- the entire psychological need in the bone marrow of belief -- is the inadequacy of a world of grays to satisfy those who require certainty.

Catholicism should have stopped at the Council of Trent. It's a great product with a great track record. New Coke, OTOH, has been failing ever more spectacularly for the ensuing 500 years. Francis is right as to the social aspects of Catholicism. But on doctrine even Benedict was a wild-eyed reformer. Issue all the software updates you want. Heck, let women into the clergy for that matter. None of that crapola matters. But keep core doctrine -- the hardware -- pure. Otherwise all you've got is one more candidate jockeying for position on the rationality lane and, judging by the results, a lame one.
 
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