unofan
Well-known member
Rover, you're wrong. He's not Rambo, he's Bruce Willis from The Siege.
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The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk
- Thread starter FreshFish
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Rover, you're wrong. He's not Rambo, he's Bruce Willis from The Siege.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk
FXX is about to run all the Simpsons episodes. I'll have to watch this one -- I somehow missed it.
FXX is about to run all the Simpsons episodes. I'll have to watch this one -- I somehow missed it.
FadeToBlack&Gold
Microlot Marxist
Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk
*whistle*
Only liberals are permitted to point back to Bush's failings. That's a 10-yd. penalty, repeat 2nd down.
*whistle*
Only liberals are permitted to point back to Bush's failings. That's a 10-yd. penalty, repeat 2nd down.
St. Clown
Liberal Rebel Scum, apparently
Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk
You're missing it right now. They started yesterday morning, and when I left for work this morning Bart's crank call to Moe turned to failure because Hugh Jass was getting a drink just then.
You're missing it right now. They started yesterday morning, and when I left for work this morning Bart's crank call to Moe turned to failure because Hugh Jass was getting a drink just then.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk
Dang it. I thought it started Monday.
Dang it. I thought it started Monday.
Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk
For some reason, I am not sure how much sincerety there is behind your comment. A sad state of affairs, eh?
Taking your comment at face value, yes, it is indeed unsettling to be walking through Rockefeller Center on one's way to work, to come across two or three policemen wearing helmets and body armor, carrying semi-automatic weapons, who are just hanging out and shooting the breeze (figuratively of course). You wonder what kind of intelligence they had to be deployed there.
It is indeed unsettling to have multiple attempts made on your life: the car bomb in Times Square that did not explode, the two teenagers arrested on their way into the city with a van full of pipe bombs, and of course the planes that hit the Twin Towers. That was a frightful day to live through, wondering if I'd ever see my wife and children again. The ruins were smoking for weeks, every day crossing 5th Avenue and looking south, seeing that plume of smoke rising from the rubble day after day.
To top it off, my daughter was a volunteer at the Boston Marathon last year as well, and my brother lives not far from the site of the explosion there. Another wonderful three days of memories, eh?
No, I cannot afford to be glib and complacent and condescending. So far, ISIS has done everything they said they were going to do. When they say they plan to carry out terrorist attacks within the US, there are very good reasons to believe they mean it. They have certainly graduated from "junior varsity" to major threat # 1.
None of this of course means we need to unilaterally send in massive numbers of troops. I've never once suggested we should. But to ignore this threat entirely is naive and foolish. it is exactly like gangrene: either you stop it early on, or you stop it later, but it is inexorable: if you do not stop it eventually you are a dead man. i assume you are not okay with them killing you and your friends; i assume you also are not okay with them killing people you don't know.
It would be interesting to hear a serious and thoughtful response from you about what you think we should do to stop them. it appears that you are proud of your ability to tear down others, i don't see you offering much on how to build constructively. Here's a chance for you to dispel this impression.
For some reason, I am not sure how much sincerety there is behind your comment. A sad state of affairs, eh?
Taking your comment at face value, yes, it is indeed unsettling to be walking through Rockefeller Center on one's way to work, to come across two or three policemen wearing helmets and body armor, carrying semi-automatic weapons, who are just hanging out and shooting the breeze (figuratively of course). You wonder what kind of intelligence they had to be deployed there.
It is indeed unsettling to have multiple attempts made on your life: the car bomb in Times Square that did not explode, the two teenagers arrested on their way into the city with a van full of pipe bombs, and of course the planes that hit the Twin Towers. That was a frightful day to live through, wondering if I'd ever see my wife and children again. The ruins were smoking for weeks, every day crossing 5th Avenue and looking south, seeing that plume of smoke rising from the rubble day after day.
To top it off, my daughter was a volunteer at the Boston Marathon last year as well, and my brother lives not far from the site of the explosion there. Another wonderful three days of memories, eh?
No, I cannot afford to be glib and complacent and condescending. So far, ISIS has done everything they said they were going to do. When they say they plan to carry out terrorist attacks within the US, there are very good reasons to believe they mean it. They have certainly graduated from "junior varsity" to major threat # 1.
None of this of course means we need to unilaterally send in massive numbers of troops. I've never once suggested we should. But to ignore this threat entirely is naive and foolish. it is exactly like gangrene: either you stop it early on, or you stop it later, but it is inexorable: if you do not stop it eventually you are a dead man. i assume you are not okay with them killing you and your friends; i assume you also are not okay with them killing people you don't know.
It would be interesting to hear a serious and thoughtful response from you about what you think we should do to stop them. it appears that you are proud of your ability to tear down others, i don't see you offering much on how to build constructively. Here's a chance for you to dispel this impression.
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dxmnkd316
Lucia Apologist
Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk
Then clear things up with us. Spell out EXACTLY what you would do.
Then clear things up with us. Spell out EXACTLY what you would do.
Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk
Exactly and that's where Fishy is falling down, much like Opie did with Ukraine. Every knuck' wants a show of force, but then inevitably comes down to doing exactly what Obama is already doing. Fighting terrorists not with an invasion of ground troops, but with drones and special forces. Right now two AQ members can't get together to take a p! ss together without getting blown to bits. ISIS is going to experience the same fate, not because of blowhard conservatives bleating on message boards or Sunday talk shows, but because of actions the US is currently engaged in.
Exactly and that's where Fishy is falling down, much like Opie did with Ukraine. Every knuck' wants a show of force, but then inevitably comes down to doing exactly what Obama is already doing. Fighting terrorists not with an invasion of ground troops, but with drones and special forces. Right now two AQ members can't get together to take a p! ss together without getting blown to bits. ISIS is going to experience the same fate, not because of blowhard conservatives bleating on message boards or Sunday talk shows, but because of actions the US is currently engaged in.
G
Gurtholfin
Guest
Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk
Yep. Let the ground troops be provided by the locals.
You can't give someone freedom, they need to fight for it themselves.
Our job - as I see it - is to tip the scales in their favor.
That way, when it's all over, while they may not have forgotten their hatred of us altogether, maybe they'll at least be grudgingly neutral towards us.
Oh who am I kidding? At least ISIS will be gone or at least neutered.
Yep. Let the ground troops be provided by the locals.
You can't give someone freedom, they need to fight for it themselves.
Our job - as I see it - is to tip the scales in their favor.
That way, when it's all over, while they may not have forgotten their hatred of us altogether, maybe they'll at least be grudgingly neutral towards us.
Oh who am I kidding? At least ISIS will be gone or at least neutered.
dxmnkd316
Lucia Apologist
Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk
Nailed it. Al Qaeda is effectively dead. I didn't say completely, but it has been transformed from a very wealthy, sophisticated, lethal, well-organized, hierarchical organization to something that resembles a couple of very small fragmented tribes that every-so-often take shots at the Afghan military, blow up a bus station, or something else that has almost no direct effect on the United States. If the daily intelligence briefing were a newspaper, they'd have been relegated to the front page of the local section.
Nailed it. Al Qaeda is effectively dead. I didn't say completely, but it has been transformed from a very wealthy, sophisticated, lethal, well-organized, hierarchical organization to something that resembles a couple of very small fragmented tribes that every-so-often take shots at the Afghan military, blow up a bus station, or something else that has almost no direct effect on the United States. If the daily intelligence briefing were a newspaper, they'd have been relegated to the front page of the local section.
ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk
We occupied Iraq and it's now a cesspool.
Afghanistan will follow suit.
What the **** don't you get about that?
We occupied Iraq and it's now a cesspool.
Afghanistan will follow suit.
What the **** don't you get about that?
Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk
This is largely the popular approach and a good one. I would asterisk this by saying our goal is not to win.
Our goal is to end this in a permanent workable and decent form for the locals (with the US being a force for good). Too many see this as a sprint...its not, its a marathon. Problem one with Iraq last decade. The 200 yards of getting rid of Saddam was great...but the actual race that matters is thus far not shaping up to be much (or maybe even any) better than it was before we began.
And understanding the end game is critical when determining the tactics to achieve it.
This is largely the popular approach and a good one. I would asterisk this by saying our goal is not to win.
Our goal is to end this in a permanent workable and decent form for the locals (with the US being a force for good). Too many see this as a sprint...its not, its a marathon. Problem one with Iraq last decade. The 200 yards of getting rid of Saddam was great...but the actual race that matters is thus far not shaping up to be much (or maybe even any) better than it was before we began.
And understanding the end game is critical when determining the tactics to achieve it.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk
The trick is not to create more terrorists than you kill. When we were busting down the door of every house in Baghdad and treating every Iraqi and Afghan male older than 9, and every Pakistani wedding party of more than 6 people, as guilty of terrorism unless proven innocent, we were a terrorist recruitment program.
Let's not do that again. That was dumb.
One and only one good thing came out of the Iraq war. I can now spell Baghdad without looking it up.
The trick is not to create more terrorists than you kill. When we were busting down the door of every house in Baghdad and treating every Iraqi and Afghan male older than 9, and every Pakistani wedding party of more than 6 people, as guilty of terrorism unless proven innocent, we were a terrorist recruitment program.
Let's not do that again. That was dumb.
One and only one good thing came out of the Iraq war. I can now spell Baghdad without looking it up.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk
Afghanistan we only share the gold, with the Soviets and Ronnie's mujahideen "moral equivalent of our Founding Fathers." We didn't fix it, but we didn't break it alone, either.
Afghanistan we only share the gold, with the Soviets and Ronnie's mujahideen "moral equivalent of our Founding Fathers." We didn't fix it, but we didn't break it alone, either.
Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk
The O has actually done some good in Iraq on several fronts. 1) He got US troops out of there thus forcing the Iraqi's to accept responsibility for their own country. 2) When they wouldn't do so, he forced the departure of the odious and incompetent Malaki before we helped out on a limited basis. 3) We saved about the only reliable allies over there, the Kurds, who are willing and able to fight as long as they weren't outgunned by US supplied equipment that Iraqi army left behind while running away.
Folks, that's about as good as its going to get over there. Another Malaki comes in and we disengage again until he's gone. Anti-terrorism for much better than worse is far less splashy now (no "shock and awe"
) Its drones and special forces offing people we the general public has never heard of. ISIS may want to cause a US invasion, but we need not do so to deal with them. With air superiority in a desert country, there's nowhere for them to hide. Now neo-cons might not be able to pleasure themselves with the sight of US troops fighting and dying in a foreign land where we're not wanted, but that's their problem.
The O has actually done some good in Iraq on several fronts. 1) He got US troops out of there thus forcing the Iraqi's to accept responsibility for their own country. 2) When they wouldn't do so, he forced the departure of the odious and incompetent Malaki before we helped out on a limited basis. 3) We saved about the only reliable allies over there, the Kurds, who are willing and able to fight as long as they weren't outgunned by US supplied equipment that Iraqi army left behind while running away.
Folks, that's about as good as its going to get over there. Another Malaki comes in and we disengage again until he's gone. Anti-terrorism for much better than worse is far less splashy now (no "shock and awe"
) Its drones and special forces offing people we the general public has never heard of. ISIS may want to cause a US invasion, but we need not do so to deal with them. With air superiority in a desert country, there's nowhere for them to hide. Now neo-cons might not be able to pleasure themselves with the sight of US troops fighting and dying in a foreign land where we're not wanted, but that's their problem.
ScoobyDoo
NPC
dxmnkd316
Lucia Apologist
Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk
Don't tell us what other people think, what do YOU want the government to do about ISIS? You said you didn't want an invasion force but didn't say what you wanted to do.
Or are you going to continue to dodge the question?
Don't tell us what other people think, what do YOU want the government to do about ISIS? You said you didn't want an invasion force but didn't say what you wanted to do.
Or are you going to continue to dodge the question?
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