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The Countries: Forget it, Burkina Faso, Michigan is still the worst.

If nothing else Putin will do down as leading one of the greatest agitprop operations of all time. He got both the British and the Americans to commit suicide. Compared to his war, he got everything he wanted for a fraction of a penny on the dollar.

He's blown it, but The Plan was sound. The Plan worked.
 
Kepler said:
If nothing else Putin will do down as leading one of the greatest agitprop operations of all time. He got both the British and the Americans to commit suicide. Compared to his war, he got everything he wanted for a fraction of a penny on the dollar.

He's blown it, but The Plan was sound. The Plan worked.
Click to expand...
There's a decent chance The Plan would have still worked to some degree, if Dump had won in 2020. The invasion would've started in Spring 2021 because Shitler would've pulled us out of NATO (the threshold for doing so is now higher), so there would've been zero US support for Ukraine (or any subsequent invasions of ex-Soviet territory) from 2022-2024

But Biden's election through a wrench in the works. With the US still committed to NATO and most of the member states prepared to also provide reserve equipment, funds, intel, and other non-troop support, it was now or never to try and blow his load before the EU states could rearm. In the end, his decrepit, corrupt, and uninspired military has fucked him over, but not before he's caused plenty of pain and chaos.
 
FadeToBlack&Gold said:
There's a decent chance The Plan would have still worked to some degree, if Dump had won in 2020. The invasion would've started in Spring 2021 because Shitler would've pulled us out of NATO (the threshold for doing so is now higher), so there would've been zero US support for Ukraine (or any subsequent invasions of ex-Soviet territory) from 2022-2024

But Biden's election through a wrench in the works. With the US still committed to NATO and most of the member states prepared to also provide reserve equipment, funds, intel, and other non-troop support, it was now or never to try and blow his load before the EU states could rearm. In the end, his decrepit, corrupt, and uninspired military has fucked him over, but not before he's caused plenty of pain and chaos.
Click to expand...

Yeah while Trump was in charge Putin's attitude was never stop your enemy when they are making mistakes. Trump was doing everything he could to damage NATO internally and withhold weapons from Ukraine (hey, remember the first impeachment?), and military action would do nothing then except remind NATO who the enemy was and bring it back together. Better to prepare and wait, to give Trump more time to weaken it further, before acting; which is of course what we saw in 2022.
 
The Plan includes the Baltic republics and Poland. That could not work unless the US had left NATO. Certainly Dump was headed that way. I think you are correct that had Dump won in 2020 and we had left NATO, the Ukraine attack would then have garnered weapons from Poland and that would have been the ostensible causus belli to invade along the western border all the way from the Black Sea to the Baltic Sea in "defense" of the motherland. Russian subs in those seas with no US counterweight would cut those countries off, all of NATO would be oversubscribed, and the Russians would now occupy their revanchist territories and the PLA would be in Taipei.

It could still happen. The MGT types still want us to stab Ukraine in the back. Western and Central Europe will need another 30 years to fully rearm and develop the type of pan-European identity needed to be a fully self-sufficient military counterweight. This has given them a little time and space to get that process started and it's no accident that Poland and Finland have fully embraced the change. But it will also take time to roll that into the European economy. They will need to extricate themselves from the US as we capsize.

Once this is all over Russia needs to end. It's too dangerous having them and China as neighbors. Cut Muscovy back to a European small country, and create a federated Canada with the eastern territories, with a balanced multi-ethnic union. Enroll them in whatever the Northern half of SEATO is these days (the American–Japanese–Korean trilateral pact?) and tell China to keep their mitts off.

Or fuck it, just give it all to an independent Alaska.
 
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