The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

[bronconick]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

Hamtramck is a city IN Detroit,


When Maddow talks about privatizing the water dept,.....

Why the hell did a city have 5 paid crossing guards? Lights weren't good enough for them like the rest of us?

 

[Wol4ine]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

Insurance companies do not have death panels. Insurance companies sell policies that will cover some things but not others. If your policy states it will cover it, but the company renegs you can take them to court. That's true if it's auto, home or health insurance. Personnally I like my chances in court vs an Insurance Co. more than I do vs the Federal Government. With private insurance companies you are free to choose whether to buy those products or not. With Obama care you are not free to choose. So if you chose to buy a policy that covers a lung transplant to extend your life 3 years instead of the 6 months w/o transplant, the insurance co. will pay out.

Now will you explain why the Federal Coordinating Council for Comparative Effectiveness Research isn't the "real issue".

 

[Wol4ine]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

Why the hell did a city have 5 paid crossing guards? Lights weren't good enough for them like the rest of us?

Yeah, it's too bad they didn't have a union.

 

[Bakunin]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

At least when the gov't makes the decision, you have due process rights to fight it in court. Good luck doing the same thing with Blue Cross/Blue Shield.

If I had to choose who to sue, it wouldn't be the federal government, that's for **** sure.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

Insurance companies do not have death panels. Insurance companies sell policies that will cover some things but not others. If your policy states it will cover it, but the company renegs you can take them to court. That's true if it's auto, home or health insurance. Personnally I like my chances in court vs an Insurance Co. more than I do vs the Federal Government. With private insurance companies you are free to choose whether to buy those products or not. With Obama care you are not free to choose. So if you chose to buy a policy that covers a lung transplant to extend your life 3 years instead of the 6 months w/o transplant, the insurance co. will pay out.

Really?

What about this scenario then?

When a person is diagnosed with an expensive condition such as cancer, some insurance companies review his/her initial health status questionnaire. In most states’ individual insurance market, insurance companies can retroactively cancel the entire policy if any condition was missed – even if the medical condition is unrelated, and even if the person was not aware of the condition at the time. Coverage can also be revoked for all members of a family, even if only one family member failed to disclose a medical condition.

What's your solution to that?

Or this.

Even when offering coverage, insurers can exclude whole categories of illnesses related to a pre-existing condition. For example, someone with a pre-existing condition of hay fever could have any respiratory system disease – such as bronchitis or pneumonia – excluded from coverage

That one adding on to the pre-existing condition issue which I didn't even cite.

 

[unofan]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

With private insurance companies you are free to choose whether to buy those products or not. With Obama care you are not free to choose. So if you chose to buy a policy that covers a lung transplant to extend your life 3 years instead of the 6 months w/o transplant, the insurance co. will pay out.

Why wouldn't a single-payer allow you to buy an insurance policy to cover a lung transplant to extend your life? Is there some provision outlawing private insurance on top of what the government provides?

Also, you're ***** kidding yourself if you think insurance companies don't have some sort of "death panel" - if that's what you insist on calling the government equivalent.

I'd also rather take my chances with the gov't beauracracy and the administrative appeals process than I ever would an insurance company in a contracts suit. I've seen the inner workings of similar state-level systems like worker's comp and unemployment; they are way more favorable to the taxpayer than a suit against a mega-corporation would be.

 

[Wol4ine]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

Could you give your sources for those quotes, please.

 

[Priceless]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

Yeah, it's too bad they didn't have a union.

Just to clarify: are you agreeing with the GOP in Wisconsin that we shouldn't have any more unions? To help balance the budget, right? There's no ulterior motive.

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[Wol4ine]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

Could you give your sources for those quotes, please.

Never mind I found it. A government website. I think you guys have proven to me that private insurance companies are a bunch of jerks. I'm a believer. Government single payer insurance is the way to go. Thanks for the info.

 

[Kepler]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

I think you guys have proven to me that private insurance companies are a bunch of jerks. I'm a believer.

Consider yourself lucky that you've never had to deal with them under duress -- doing so is confirmation enough that they're just a legalized mafia.

Come the Revolution, Hartford's a smoking pit.

 

[Priceless]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

Never mind I found it. A government website. I think you guys have proven to me that private insurance companies are a bunch of jerks. I'm a believer. Government single payer insurance is the way to go. Thanks for the info.

I'm living proof that the system works great. I've got a tumor inside my skull, nerve damage to my face, negligible balance, can't lift anything over 10 lbs, deaf in one ear, do everything with my left hand because the right hand and arm never fully recovered from the surgery to remove the tumor that is still in my head. I paid for disability insurance. Now that I'm disabled the insurance company has told me to pound sand because I'm perfectly able now. To reach that decision they had a doctor whom I've never met, spoken to and certainly never been examined by, declare me physically fit. To do what, I have no idea. I applied for work with the insurance company doing work I used to be fully qualified to do, but for some reason they chose not to hire me. Now instead of being covered by an insurance policy I paid for I have nothing. Oh, and I have no health insurance either. The wonderful private insurance company wanted $1200 a month for crappy benefits. Maybe I should just die and decrease the surplus population.

 

[geezer]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

I'm living proof that the system works great. I've got a tumor inside my skull, nerve damage to my face, negligible balance, can't lift anything over 10 lbs, deaf in one ear, do everything with my left hand because the right hand and arm never fully recovered from the surgery to remove the tumor that is still in my head. I paid for disability insurance. Now that I'm disabled the insurance company has told me to pound sand because I'm perfectly able now. To reach that decision they had a doctor whom I've never met, spoken to and certainly never been examined by, declare me physically fit. To do what, I have no idea. I applied for work with the insurance company doing work I used to be fully qualified to do, but for some reason they chose not to hire me. Now instead of being covered by an insurance policy I paid for I have nothing. Oh, and I have no health insurance either. The wonderful private insurance company wanted $1200 a month for crappy benefits. Maybe I should just die and decrease the surplus population.

That's terrible, Priceless. I hope you have a good lawyer to get after them for benefits. I'm familiar with some of the frustration you're going through, I had a similar experience 10 years ago but it did get resolved in the end.
What's frightening to imagine is if we were forced into a single payer system where all incentive to satisfy customers (competition between insurers) was removed from the market. These types of scenarios would undoubtedly get exponentially worse.

 

[Wol4ine]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

Here is a table I found from National Healthcare Exchange Services website for the fiscal year 2007.

<table width="400"><tr><td style="font-weight: bold;">Payer</td><td style="font-weight: bold;">Number of Records</td><td style="font-weight: bold;">Denied Records</td></td><td style="font-weight: bold;">% of Denials</td></tr> <tr><td>Aetna</td><td>637,239</td><td>43,317</td><td>6.80%</td></tr> <tr><td>Anthem</td><td>250,070</td><td>11,546</td><td>4.62%</td></tr>
<tr><td>CIGNA</td><td>263,728</td><td>9,060</td><td>3.44%</td></tr>
<tr><td>Coventry</td><td>20,487</td><td>590</td><td>2.88%</td></tr>
<tr><td>Health Net</td><td>4,975</td><td>193</td><td>3.88%</td></tr>
<tr><td>Humana</td><td>143,026</td><td>4,142</td><td>2.90%</td></tr>
<tr><td>UHC</td><td>1,127,691</td><td>30,177</td><td>2.68%</td></tr>
<tr><td>MEDICARE</td><td>6,938,431</td><td>475,566</td><td>6.85%</td></tr></table>

It appears that the much lauded government insurer denies a higher percentage than the much maligned private insurers. I sympathize Priceless. But there is no guarantee a single payer government run provider would be any better, in fact it could be worse.

edit: Like geezer said, customers can discrimminate against Aetna or others because of their high denial rate. With a single payer they can't.

 

[Wol4ine]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

Just to clarify: are you agreeing with the GOP in Wisconsin that we shouldn't have any more unions? To help balance the budget, right? There's no ulterior motive.

Just to clarify: are you agreeing with the Socialists in Wisconsin? I seem to remember a few years back when I and others tried to convince you all that Obama was a socialist. How do you guys feel about that today?

 

[Handyman]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

Obama is a socialist...the dude isnt even a liberal. I dont think that word means what you think it does.

But hey lets have fun making up stuff...if Obama is a socialist (he isnt) than pretty much 3/4 of the GOP are either autocrats or fascists! See isnt that fun

 

[icebadger]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

Wisconsin Assembly passes the bill killing collective bargaining despite the bill still containing appropriations changes which should have necessitated quorum for yesterday's Senate vote and despite violating the State open meetings law by not giving 24 hours notice for either yesterday's Joint Conference Committee meeting to reconcile the bills or today's Assembly session to pass it. Multiple lawsuits already pending, including from the City of Madison and Dane County.

 

[leswp1]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

Consider yourself lucky that you've never had to deal with them under duress -- doing so is confirmation enough that they're just a legalized mafia.

Come the Revolution, Hartford's a smoking pit.

I deal with them trying to get patients care. Love the prior authorization gig. They have some idiot who does not have a medical degree of any sort asking set questions regarding the appropriateness of my treatment or work up. They are not medically trained so they go by protocol with no insight or thought.

Example- someone came in with an acute illness. They have abnormal bloodwork indicating infection, fever, have passed out, have pain, sx are getting worse. The exam is indicative of something needing surgery. The nurse books the test. Needs prior auth before the patient can get test. We send the patient on ahead and pray.

The Nurse then spends 10 minutes on the phone getting someone at the insurance company who can screen my ordered test. The person asks questions for about 10 minutes making my nurse spell every diagnosis, clarify every symptom and requires that she tell them the billing code for every thing she just said. Following the script, the person then asks if this is life threatening. At this point my nurse who has just described in minute detail sx that should make this question a moot point, loses it and says sarcastically, "Yeah, if the dx is correct then the patient could rupture something and wouldn't he just be screwed!" The person ponders this and then says the nurse needs to speak with a clinical person as the screen in can't be OKd until that person makes sure the test is really needed.

By now my nurse is making me wonder if she is going to find a way to physically reach thru the phone and strangle someone. Another pause, the clinical guru comes on the phone, asks the same questions as the first person (she does, however not need it to be spelled). Hold please.........40 minutes after starting the odyssey we get an approval. The patient has been waiting 10 minutes at the test site.

This is unfortunately not unusual. Tell me again about the need to cut costs. I just paid my nurse for close to 3/4 of an hour to leave all her other duties so we can get one test. Then we get to pay her OT because the other work did not do itself and now she needs to catch up. The patient waited for a test. It is now late enough in the day that we won't get results until he has to go thru the ED to get the surgical consult. More $. More wasted resources.

Sure they tell you there are appeals but when you have something emergent then the appeal is not a timely option. There are times when the patient gets the test rejected and our only recourse is to send the patient acutely to the ER so they can order the test emergently there. This means the patient gets evaluated 2 times so the same test can be ordered and they can try the PA thing again!

You would expect that you could hold the insurance company liable but some cretin made them immune from culpability and they can make decisions that are not medically based with impunity. (OK so that was a bit of a rant )

 

[Kepler]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

You would expect that you could hold the insurance company liable but some cretin made them immune from culpability and they can make decisions that are not medically based with impunity.

That last part is the heart of the matter. If bribery of Congress wasn't legal, this would not be a problem -- representatives would have to craft laws that actually served public needs. But because it is, the patients, the doctors, and the taxpayers all get effed so some guy on the Aetna board can get a second Porsch. They spend millions to evade paying billions for their criminality. Same old story.

We can go through every one of these issues and fight it tooth and nail: medical, environmental, energy policy, financial reform -- or we can have campaign finance reform and stop the thugs right at the beginning. Dollars are not people. Business lobbying is profoundly anti-democratic and should be considered an illegal inducement.

 

[Priceless]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

Congressman King has announced hearings into the "radicalization" of Mother Nature in the wake of the earthquake/tsunami.

 

[Kepler]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

Congressman King has announced hearings into the "radicalization" of Mother Nature in the wake of the earthquake/tsunami.

Well, it's a woman and it's nature... feminism and environmentalism! Loud noises!!!