The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

[Priceless]

Watch out for the unintended consequences. Mark my words that if the right wins this round then the private sector will get even less than they do now in the market. Part of the reason private sector employees even get what they get is because private companies have to compete with the public sector. If that stops EVERYONE will have massive wage deflation.

That's the idea.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

Yeah, it's a negotiation and this is his offer. They can take the cuts or lose everything.

 

[Priceless]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

Exhibit A

Forbes Magazine (yes, Forbes)

The Americans for Prosperity group, a Tea Party group that is a Koch Brothers front, has put up a website and petition called www.standwithwalker.com. The website attacks all collective bargaining – not just for public employees’ unions. Americans for Prosperity is also organizing a rally tomorrow in Wisconsin to support Gov. Walker.

Malach tells FOX 11 that the layoffs are not because of a drop in demand. In fact, Malach said demand is high for the bath tissue and napkins manufactured at the plant.

You really have to wonder how long it will take for Tea Party devotees to realize just how badly they are being used.

 

[WeWantMore]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

Nice selective editing of the last point. The paragraph in full:

Officials at Georgia-Pacific said the company is laying off 158 workers at its Day Street plant because out-of-date equipment at the facility is being replaced with newer, more-efficient equipment. The company said much of the new, papermaking equipment will be automated. [...] Malach tells FOX 11 that the layoffs are not because of a drop in demand. In fact, Malach said demand is high for the bath tissue and napkins manufactured at the plant.

I mean, come on. This is the reality today. There are some jobs that machines can do better and/or more efficiently than humans. This is hardly a new development, it's been happening since the beginning of industrialization. How exactly does this play into the conspiracy?

Edit: Looking at Stand With Walker right now, I'm hard pressed to see where it calls for an end to all collective bargaining, but I'm sure it's there somewhere.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

Nice selective editing of the last point. The paragraph in full:


I mean, come on. This is the reality today. There are some jobs that machines can do better and/or more efficiently than humans. This is hardly a new development, it's been happening since the beginning of industrialization. How exactly does this play into the conspiracy?

Edit: Looking at Stand With Walker right now, I'm hard pressed to see where it calls for an end to all collective bargaining, but I'm sure it's there somewhere.

Didn't I warn you about facts?

 

[walrus]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

LOL

Watch out for the unintended consequences. Mark my words that if the right wins this round then the private sector will get even less than they do now in the market. Part of the reason private sector employees even get what they get is because private companies have to compete with the public sector. If that stops EVERYONE will have massive wage deflation.

I guess my taxes going up to pay them hasn't hurt me. Why don't you search and find out how much public sector wages have gone up as compared to private sector?

Why even bother looking looking for a private sector job, public sector jobs rule. Get every single holiday off, get a benefit package beyond belief, have a Union protecting seniority, have a union protecting mediocrity. Nah none of that hurts my pocket.

Its all window dressing anyway, both sides have screwed us for years and will continue to do so as we continue to put these stiffs into office.

 

[icebadger]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

I went to my first ever political protest at the Capitol in Madison today. It was a neat experience. My favorite sign was "Puppies not Paycuts". The "pro-labor" forces seemed to vastly outnumber the tea partiers. It's sad that although the unions and the Dems have now said that they will go along with increased benefit and pension costs so long as collective bargaining rights are maintained, the governor refuses to even have a conversation about it (Link). I think if this were Obama and health care, they'd be singing a different tune.

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/wackybadger/5459056561/" title="Protesting at the Capitol by wackybadger, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5052/5459056561_5e6e8af74b_z.jpg" width="428" height="640" alt="Protesting at the Capitol" /></a> <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/wackybadger/5459667074/" title="Protesting at the Capitol by wackybadger, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5137/5459667074_40bd3d4f9f_z.jpg" width="640" height="428" alt="Protesting at the Capitol" /></a>

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

I guess my taxes going up to pay them hasn't hurt me. Why don't you search and find out how much public sector wages have gone up as compared to private sector?

Why even bother looking looking for a private sector job, public sector jobs rule. Get every single holiday off, get a benefit package beyond belief, have a Union protecting seniority, have a union protecting mediocrity. Nah none of that hurts my pocket.

Its all window dressing anyway, both sides have screwed us for years and will continue to do so as we continue to put these stiffs into office.

If I'm able to make 1,000 more per year in salary I'll take a 1-2% increase in taxes.

 

[Priceless]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

If I'm able to make 1,000 more per year in salary I'll take a 1-2% increase in taxes.

Communist!

 

[Bakunin]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

Why even bother looking looking for a private sector job, public sector jobs rule. Get every single holiday off, get a benefit package beyond belief, have a Union protecting seniority, have a union protecting mediocrity.

I'd rather have the seniority and mediocrity not protected. I hate the people that suck at their jobs yet keep them for eternity because they are no longer in the probationary period and subjected to private sector-style disciplinary action / firing.

And in response to Les from the last thread about how you can't buy groceries with benefits and the cost of living issue: $55k is a very good salary in the Milwaukee area. Plus those benefits include a generous pension. Basically no one in the private sector gets that.

 

[Wol4ine]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

It's sad that although the unions and the Dems have now said that they will go along with increased benefit and pension costs so long as collective bargaining rights are maintained, the governor refuses to even have a conversation about it (Link).

It appears that the socialists have finally realized they lost the election. "Elections have consequences". Tea Partiers learned this the hard way in 2008. They showed up at the polls in 2010 and defeated a lot of those that voted for Obama Care. The Wisconsin/Illinois senators should go back to work, vote nay, and then campaign to defeat those that voted for it in the next election. I can't beleive overturning this legislation would be as hard as overturning prohibition, and we did that.

 

[Priceless]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

See, this what happens when you let the Tea Party run things

Video: Rep. Peter Barca explodes with anger after Assembly Republicans begin voting before Democrats enter the chamber

This is an amazing bit of video. When the Wisconsin Assembly voted to end collective bargaining, they convened before the scheduled time and didn't tell the Democrats, whose leader literally ran into the chamber to stop the proceedings. Minority leader Rep. Peter Barca called for a Point of Personal Privilege, but the Speaker several times ignored him and tried to carry on with votes. They were casting votes in quick succession by voice vote, no debate or recording.

In most rules of parliamentary procedure, a point of personal privilege takes precedence over current business. The Wisconsin Assembly will have its own variation of course, but it appears from the video that points of personal privilege take precedence there too. Typically this would used for a situation like you're seated at the back of the meeting, and people behind the seating area are chattering so much that you can't hear, so you would raise a point of personal privilege to have the chair order them to take conversations outside. Apparently, it can be applied when Republicans decide majority rule means they don't even have to tell the minority when they decide to start early and skip debate on taking away the rights of those who lost they don't like.

Remember how Republicans complained the federal health care bills were being shoved down their throats during a debate that lasted A YEAR?!

 

[icebadger]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

Why even bother looking looking for a private sector job, public sector jobs rule. Get every single holiday off, get a benefit package beyond belief, have a Union protecting seniority, have a union protecting mediocrity. Nah none of that hurts my pocket.

I just want to point out that all of us public sector employees are not the same. To wit, as I've written previously I wrote and received the grant that pays my salary and benefits; legally, I do not receive any holidays off or receive any vacation of any kind, paid or unpaid; there is no union for researchers at UW; my boss could let me go without cause at a moment's notice; I do have nice benefits but I make 1/2 what I could in the private sector (it's a trade-off). Basically, I have no representation but am getting hosed because my benefit rates are determined by the rates the State negotiates with the unions that do exist. On the plus side, I do have the ability to just request a raise from my PI. My salary is not legally constrained.

 

[WeWantMore]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

See, this what happens when you let the Tea Party run things

Video: Rep. Peter Barca explodes with anger after Assembly Republicans begin voting before Democrats enter the chamber

Yeah.... Except that Democrats knew all along when the Assembly was going to start proceedings. They were claiming they were going to remain in caucus all day and not show up at all.

If the opposition party is claiming they won't come to the floor, then you have to do something to get them to the floor. Judging by Rep. Barca's reaction, I'd say that worked pretty well.

In a shocking development, that story doesn't tell the whole story. Because after Democrats showed up, the vote was canceled, and they will have a full debate on Tuesday. Nothing hurt.

 

[Wol4ine]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

Majority leader asked the minority leader when they were going to be out of caucus to vote. (the Dems had been in caucus all day thursday and friday) They were told ,"how about sunday?" Fitzgerald took that to mean they weren't going to show up. (You know, kind of like the senate) So they began voting 3 whole minutes early. When Barca called for a Point of Personal Privilege he was NOT ignored. The voting stopped and he was given the floor. The Dems rambled on for the next twenty minutes or so about how unjust it was to start early without them. (Apparently the unions won't let them start work early either) Then the Majority leader motioned to adjourn until Tuesday at 10 am. It carried. During the ramble, Rep. Hintz from the 54th was upset that the bill was 144 pages and he only had a week to read it. What did Pelosi day, "We have to pass it to find out what's in it"?

All said, I think the Tea Party handled that well.

 

[Handyman]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

I am just going to say, if Wisconsin gets this through, and it spreads we might actually see the slippery slope on this one...and make no mistake it will spread and fast. In a year it wont be contained to just public sector issues the private sector will join in as well and test the constraints of the rule. Companies will go to court to break unions and have legislative precedence on their side.

Look I am not pro union, I think they are wasteful and lazy and cronyed (sp?) up to the hilt. That said I think it is better to have them around than to not have them. Without Unions, management would screw the employees, there is no question about it. Benefits would go in the toilet, pensions would be out the window and the wage would drop significantly. There would be no check on any of that, and look what happens when big business doesnt have a check on them.

What do you think the WI State Government will do if this passes? What is the point? Some say this is the best way to weaken the Dems. (Unions are the primary backer of Dems and if they have no power bam neither do the Dems...I think that is overkill but it does seem to make sense) I haven't read up on this much but has the Governor said what he will do with his new God power over the public employees? How much of their salary will he cut, what benefits? Is he going to cut his own salary as well? What is his endgame? Is this a temporary ban on CB or is there no end date because there is a fundamental difference. (I am serious, I have no clue and want to know)

 

[icebadger]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

I am just going to say, if Wisconsin gets this through, and it spreads we might actually see the slippery slope on this one...and make no mistake it will spread and fast. In a year it wont be contained to just public sector issues the private sector will join in as well and test the constraints of the rule. Companies will go to court to break unions and have legislative precedence on their side.

Look I am not pro union, I think they are wasteful and lazy and cronyed (sp?) up to the hilt. That said I think it is better to have them around than to not have them. Without Unions, management would screw the employees, there is no question about it. Benefits would go in the toilet, pensions would be out the window and the wage would drop significantly. There would be no check on any of that, and look what happens when big business doesnt have a check on them.

What do you think the WI State Government will do if this passes? What is the point? Some say this is the best way to weaken the Dems. (Unions are the primary backer of Dems and if they have no power bam neither do the Dems...I think that is overkill but it does seem to make sense) I haven't read up on this much but has the Governor said what he will do with his new God power over the public employees? How much of their salary will he cut, what benefits? Is he going to cut his own salary as well? What is his endgame? Is this a temporary ban on CB or is there no end date because there is a fundamental difference. (I am serious, I have no clue and want to know)

I've wondered what this means for CB in WI in the future as well. I think every Dem governor is going to reinstate CB followed by every Repub dissolving it. What a mess.

 

[walrus]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

The question remains, can the taxpayers afford the salary and benefits that State employees are now getting? Its not like the money public sector employees get grows on trees. Is there any examples where public sector employees have been saved from unsafe working conditions by their union.?? or are the unions all about money.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

If only we eliminated as many public sector jobs as possible, and got rid of those damm unions the economy could be saved.

{sigh}

 

[walrus]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

If only we eliminated as many public sector jobs as possible, and got rid of those damm unions the economy could be saved.

{sigh}

Scooby
This is a state issue and my tax burden. The Feds handle the economy