The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

[bronconick]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

There is always the Tom Clancy solution (which could be inferred from your 9/11 reference).

Based on his most recent novel, that only worked for about 8 years before things were right back where we started.

 

[Tundra]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

If we had passed the amendment in 1996, it wouldn't have changed much because we've been in an "authorized use of military force" since September 2001 and given that there isn't anyone to capitulate on the other side, will technically remain in that state for all eternity. Thus, deficit spending would have been A-OK this entire time,

Ah but it would force congress to raise revenue (war tax, war bond etc) and/or cut domestic spending to pay for the war. It clearly has holes if you look at balanced budget of the 40-49? states and how they go about getting it balanced but it's better than austerity forced by creditors.

So the only congress that wants balanced budget amendment now is tea party?
And I thought Frodo (hobbit) destroyed the ring of power (credit card of congress) in the fires of doom.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/...e-calling-tea-partiers-hobbits-173115794.html

At the the height of the debt ceiling battle last month, McCain read a Wall Street Journal editorial aloud on the Senate floor that slammed tea party-backed Republicans and called them "hobbits" for demanding a balanced-budget amendment to the Constitution in return for their votes to raise the debt ceiling.

Hopeful sign is that more states have balanced budget ... although I think there is just too much opposition now to anything linked to tea party.

Amendment 19 - Women's Suffrage

The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of sex.

http://www.usconstitution.net/constamnotes.html#Am23

By 1918, about half the states had granted women full or partial voting rights; the stature gained by women involved in the temperance movement also helped push the suffragist movement along. The support of women to the war effort convinced many more, even President Woodrow Wilson, who had been staunchly opposed to a federal suffrage amendment. On June 4, 1919, the 19th Amendment was passed by Congress, and it was ratified on August 18, 1920 (441 days).

 

[Kepler]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Things would crash faster than you can say 1929. The world would see the resigning of the president, ANY PRESIDENT, in the midst of a crisis like this as a complete sign that the US has failed and the reaction would be bad. Investors would sell of US debt for pennies on the dollar, foreign interests would take their money out of any American business, domestic investors would sell everything they got and pull their money out of the banks...it would be mass chaos. The run on the banks alone would make the AIG fiasco look like some podunk bank in central bumphuck Missouri went under.

Also, Wall Street will never have another president as utterly compliant with their every whim, either by weakness or design, as Obama. They'd hate to see him go.

Meanwhile...

 

[Kepler]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Hopeful sign is that more states have balanced budget ...

You have cause-effect backwards, here. The states have balanced budgets because the federal government picks up the tab for the biggest programs. States' rights is like anti-abortion: there are plenty of sincere individuals, but the political machinations underlying it depend on a cynical reliance that the enemy is not going away. It's like Perry's secessionism: it works as red meat, but the reality of course is that the biggest welfare queens are the ones who scream about it.

The next time somebody brings up states' rights on a fiscal matter please, please, please take them up on it!

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

You have cause-effect backwards, here. The states have balanced budgets because the federal government picks up the tab for the biggest programs. States' rights is like anti-abortion: there are plenty of sincere individuals, but the political machinations underlying it depend on a cynical reliance that the enemy is not going away. It's like Perry's secessionism: it works as red meat, but the reality of course is that the biggest welfare queens are the ones who scream about it.

The next time somebody brings up states' rights on a fiscal matter please, please, please take them up on it!

No. States have balanced budgets because (except for Vermont I believe), they are required to and always have been. So it's just the way they operate (recognizing that even then there is some accounting gimmickery that let's them fudge a bit).

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

No. States have balanced budgets because (except for Vermont I believe), they are required to and always have been. So it's just the way they operate (recognizing that even then there is some accounting gimmickery that let's them fudge a bit).

LOL

You actually believe that? Really?

Too funny.

 

[Kepler]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

No. States have balanced budgets because (except for Vermont I believe), they are required to and always have been. So it's just the way they operate (recognizing that even then there is some accounting gimmickery that let's them fudge a bit).

No right back at you. The point is saying the states have a balanced budget is like saying a teenager is self-sufficient because he can only spend the money he picks up at his summer job, when all the while his parents are paying for his food, clothes, and the mortgage on the house he lives in.

I am all for kicking the southern teens out of the house. They left school at 14, anyway, and now they're just lying around on the sofa. Maybe one or two of them might actually eek out enough of a living to pay for their various pregnant girlfriends. But since they're always giving us the finger and threatening to burn down the house unless they get what they want, a restraining order is probably the best way to deal with them. Some kids are just born bad.

Edit: keep Louisiana, though. That kid's not lazy or hostile; just slow. And he's funny.

 

[Handyman]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

also, wall street will never have another president as utterly compliant with their every whim, either by weakness or design, as obama. They'd hate to see him go.

meanwhile...

qft!

 

[Handyman]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

No right back at you. The point is saying the states have a balanced budget is like saying a teenager is self-sufficient because he can only spend the money he picks up at his summer job, when all the while his parents are paying for his food, clothes, and the mortgage on the house he lives in.

I am all for kicking the southern teens out of the house. They left school at 14, anyway, and now they're just lying around on the sofa. Maybe one or two of them might actually eek out enough of a living to pay for their various pregnant girlfriends. But since they're always giving us the finger and threatening to burn down the house unless they get what they want, a restraining order is probably the best way to deal with them. Some kids are just born bad.

Edit: keep Louisiana, though. That kid's not lazy or hostile; just slow. And he's funny.

Yeah if the states had to fund everything the Feds give them money for they would be broke so fast it would make your head spin. The idea is as fraudulent as Michelle Backmann's hatred of government handouts

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

No right back at you. The point is saying the states have a balanced budget is like saying a teenager is self-sufficient because he can only spend the money he picks up at his summer job, when all the while his parents are paying for his food, clothes, and the mortgage on the house he lives in.

I am all for kicking the southern teens out of the house. They left school at 14, anyway, and now they're just lying around on the sofa. Maybe one or two of them might actually eek out enough of a living to pay for their various pregnant girlfriends. But since they're always giving us the finger and threatening to burn down the house unless they get what they want, a restraining order is probably the best way to deal with them. Some kids are just born bad.

Edit: keep Louisiana, though. That kid's not lazy or hostile; just slow. And he's funny.

You obviously aren't familiar with the concept of unfunded federal mandates, particularly in a border state like Arizona with huge unfunded costs of dealing with illegal immigration. Further, I'd suggest you follow budget discussions in states that require a balanced budget. I follow it pretty closely here in Arizona. They do stuff like add up how much spending is being funded with how much revenue will come in. And if it isn't matching up halfway through the year, they go into special session to make it match. Concepts pretty much unheard of in the beltway.

Certainly if more functions were shifted to states, it would get more complicated, but right now states are forced to do each year what the feds never have to do. Make spending match revenues.

 

[Kepler]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Uh oh. Somebody didn't eat his talking points Wheaties this morning.

 

[Kepler]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

You obviously aren't familiar with the concept of unfunded federal mandates

Sure I am, and I am no happier about them than you are (though I would point out that the Great White Father of unfunded mandates was TP saint Ronald Reagan). They're a problem for the states, but they are miniscule compared to real costs.

I am glad you didn't argue the main point, though. The states need some cheese to go with their whine about the federal government. Without federal dollars, they would be screwed.

There's a good conservative argument to be made, though, extending the teenager/parent analogy: the federal government is the home owner parent, but it's a deadbeat parent who has refused to pay his bills (raise taxes) for 30 years. That's why the house is close to getting foreclosed on by the world economy. If it's any consolation, and it probably isn't, every house on the block is about to be foreclosed on. (Except that German family. They're probably Jews or something.)

 

[unofan]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

That would make you a necrophiliac. Stay classy, uno.

I'm just asking random hypotheticals, just like you. Let me know when you're done making up scenarios that would make Glenn Beck blush, and we can return to the discussion at hand.

Bernie Marcus, co-founder of Home Depot, has his take on why the recovery isn't going so well:

http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysis/Article.aspx?id=578920&src=HPLNews

Which makes next to no sense...regulations today are, if anything, more lax than they were when Home Depot started. Also, if regulations are so onerous, why is Home Depot not only surviving but thriving?

 

[Foxton]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Which makes next to no sense...regulations today are, if anything, more lax than they were when Home Depot started. Also, if regulations are so onerous, why is Home Depot not only surviving but thriving?

It'd be nice if he gave specific regulations, why they're bad, or possible ways to fix them.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Sure I am, and I am no happier about them than you are (though I would point out that the Great White Father of unfunded mandates was TP saint Ronald Reagan). They're a problem for the states, but they are miniscule compared to real costs.

I am glad you didn't argue the main point, though. The states need some cheese to go with their whine about the federal government. Without federal dollars, they would be screwed.

There's a good conservative argument to be made, though, extending the teenager/parent analogy: the federal government is the home owner parent, but it's a deadbeat parent who has refused to pay his bills (raise taxes) for 30 years. That's why the house is close to getting foreclosed on by the world economy. If it's any consolation, and it probably isn't, every house on the block is about to be foreclosed on. (Except that German family. They're probably Jews or something.)

No. The main point is that the states have to keep their fiscal houses in relatively good order, and they generally do, unlike the feds, who don't have to, and haven't and likely won't. When the feds eventually crater the entire country, your little tidbit about states complaining about the feds will be totally forgotten, and rightfully so.

You should know, from all the comments we've traded back and forth, that I'm a big critic of Ronald Reagan's (and his partner in fiscal irresponsibility Tip O'Neill) fiscal conduct.

 

[unofan]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

No. The main point is that the states have to keep their fiscal houses in relatively good order, and they generally do, unlike the feds, who don't have to, and haven't and likely won't. When the feds eventually crater the entire country, your little tidbit about states complaining about the feds will be totally forgotten, and rightfully so.

States also don't print their own currency, which combined with balanced budget amendments means they generally don't get a whole lot of influence on their local economies since they don't have monetary policy, and are heavily restricted from implementing any fiscal policy. Which is one reason why state economies tend to fluctuate more wildly than the national economy as a whole, they're subject to the booms and busts of the economic cycle with no real control over it. And states can always go suck at the federal teet in case of true emergencies.

 

[The Sicatoka]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

... (Except that German family. They're probably Jews or something.)

Kepler == Eric Cartman ???

Say Kepler, when you buy a car, do you have them remove the starboard directionals before you pick it up?
Surely they'd be of no use to you as I don't think I've ever seen you turn right ...

 

[Tundra]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

So when did we become a party state?
And what the hell is Democratic-Republican (closet Republican, Obama?)

President Obama Vice-president Mccain.

Amendment 12 - Choosing the President, Vice-President

The Constitution was written before parties were a player in American politics. When John Adams was chosen for President in the 1796 election, the second-place candidate, Thomas Jefferson, became Vice President — but Adams was a Federalist and Jefferson was a Democratic-Republican.

1804 election. With the 12th, Electors are directed to vote for a President and for a Vice President rather than for two choices for President.

Maybe it's time for few new ones. seems like every 10-50+ years is the norm.

You gotta love old miss... never give up, never surrender.

Amendment 13 - Slavery Abolished

Once the CSA was defeated, approval of the 13th Amendment was quick in the Northern states. By the end of 1865, eight of the eleven Confederate states had also ratified it. Proposed on January 31, 1865, it was ratified on December 6, 1865 (309 days). Eventually, all of the CSA states except Mississippi ratified the 13th after the war; Mississippi ratified the amendment in 1995.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

States also don't print their own currency, which combined with balanced budget amendments means they generally don't get a whole lot of influence on their local economies since they don't have monetary policy, and are heavily restricted from implementing any fiscal policy. Which is one reason why state economies tend to fluctuate more wildly than the national economy as a whole, they're subject to the booms and busts of the economic cycle with no real control over it. And states can always go suck at the federal teet in case of true emergencies.

Glad you don't disagree with my note that states have to be more fiscally responsible than the feds. Kepler is struggling with that one.

 

[Almington]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Glad you don't disagree with my note that states have to be more fiscally responsible than the feds. Kepler is struggling with that one.

Kepler's point was that it was much easier to balance a budget when you have both a much smaller amounts to balance with and fewer items to fund. Plus their are many things that the states don't have to worry about funding because the federal government funds those things. If that federal funding were not as consistent the states would have a much harder time balancing their budget.